View Full Version : Engine swap
What would you want (in an Ibiza) for a track car?
relatively normal spec though.
hopkinsgm
04-11-2002, 22:20
I'd have to say on track a relatively narrow power band of a 16v strikes me as the ideal - (relatively sane) turbo motors tend to come in two flavours:
a) nu skool with small turbo, good low down grunt but run out of boost at high rpm
b) old skool large turbo, loads of lag as teh thing spools up at relatively high rpm (circa 3k) but power all the way up
Torquey motors make great road cars but when you know what gear you need for every corner you can keep it on the cams, and then a 16v makes a lots of sense.
Alternatively, you don't seem to have considered the n/a 1.8 20v...?
G
Displacement cc 1781
Compression ratio 1:10.3
Maximum power KW 92, Bhp 125 at rpm 6000
Maximum torque Nm 170, lb/ft 125 at rpm 4200
Hmmmm, not sure how available these are either
ibizacupra
04-11-2002, 22:36
I voted 2ltr 16v.
Add some T'bodies like RobT and your cooking with gas :D
Turbo is breathless on track as std. Even chipped it won't want to be revved .
regards
Bill
hopkinsgm
04-11-2002, 22:42
Mark - i've heard of some n/a 1.8 20v motors making some very good power, I gather the yanks prefer them as a starting point to the factory turbo motors...
G
Shock_Xe
04-11-2002, 22:55
How about a VR6 twin turbo/supercharged!!!
mk1 golf with throttles on a 20v n/a gets something like 208 bhp,i've read,i voted 20vt as i want this myself,leaving a 1.816v going spare if the tuner won't take it on an exchange,been rigorously serviced by owner ,and pastied too:D
Originally posted by ibizacupra
I voted 2ltr 16v.
Add some T'bodies like RobT and your cooking with gas :D
Turbo is breathless on track as std. Even chipped it won't want to be revved .
regards
Bill
I also voted 2L 16V - lots of fun, a great noise and ideal for the track when you can really rev the nuts off it but not cheap to get big power (<180bhp) - and in the Ibiza you need to change the gearbox also - std ratios are crap and dont suit the high revving 16V at all.
I must confess I really like the idea of NA 20V on throttle bodies a-la Graham Vanstone (and I read last week that the passat has just been released with a 2L NA 20V - awesome basis for a screamer ! - maybe next year ?).
Turbo still goes well on track though IMO and is fast for relatively little money - its just a different experience.
Wonder what the weights of 1.8T and 2L 16V are ???
Ave it
Rob
having a quick look about for 1.8 20V engines, whether they're cheaper due to being unpopular I don't know?
1.8 16v wise to get a base engine it might be easier to find a golf & rob bits off it (there is one on the way to work for £600) then it *should* be straight forward as swaps go to get it rolling. Q plate it to avoid too many MOT problems might be an idea too.
throttle bodies might be nice, but like you say - that's £££ to get the power, but I'll have to get some quotes for setting up & making a loom up from Vince @ Stealth
Mark
I votes the 1.8T cus there's a trillion things on the market to easily mod the engine. You can go from stock to over 400hp with it. Besides the fact that it's a very realiable engine.
Dormouse
05-11-2002, 17:38
Engine Selecta.
I voted 2.0 16v. you want somink nice and revvy for track days etc. Also it doesn't put you in the big boys (stupid money) turbo class for events should you wish to do them.
No point in the 1.4 / 1.6 / 1.8 16v uless you can get a really cheapo one...you'll only be losin' power!
Yeah, I note the turbo jobbies can be boosted to stupid power....athought Santa Pod is quite close to you isn't it!
Dor.
hopkinsgm
05-11-2002, 19:55
Commented several times to this effect on other threads, but another cosideration is whether you intend to use the car competitively or just as a track day toy. If it's to be for competition, 1800cc is often a class break point. Note also that if the engine is of a type not originally fitted to a given model, you leap staright out of standard production classes and into modified production. Turbo's also get a capacity multiplier, which can be anything from 1.4 to 1.7. 1781cc (VAG 1.8) x 1.7 = 3026cc. It's why Golf Rallye had a 1761cc motor...
G
Lucky_32
05-11-2002, 20:03
Hmm I went for 2.0 16v too
Oooh Star wars is on telly - must go...
:cheers:
Dormouse
06-11-2002, 13:45
Glyn,
I though the break points were now 1400, 1600 and 2000?
1300 seemed to go for some reason.
It's all in the blue book any way.
See you tonight.
vr6-ibiza
06-11-2002, 17:05
all depends on what you want
I had the option of all these engines when i got mine converted.
What made me deciced ?
2.0 - plain and standard, why modify to this engine size, when you can buy one already factory made !!!
1.4 turbo - interesting, only such more BHP you can get, then what?
1.8T - Brilliant, tunable, light, 400bhp, (need some engine rebuilds every 1000miles or so though :( )
VR6 - The daddy of all VW engines, prestige and performance, sound quality, and tunable 200bhp with ease, 450bhp turbo !!!!, oh do forget the supercharger too..
Originally posted by vr6-ibiza
all depends on what you want
I had the option of all these engines when i got mine converted.
What made me deciced ?
2.0 - plain and standard, why modify to this engine size, when you can buy one already factory made !!!
1.4 turbo - interesting, only such more BHP you can get, then what?
1.8T - Brilliant, tunable, light, 400bhp, (need some engine rebuilds every 1000miles or so though :( )
VR6 - The daddy of all VW engines, prestige and performance, sound quality, and tunable 200bhp with ease, 450bhp turbo !!!!, oh do forget the supercharger too..
VR6 - true what you say but also very heavy, not a good idea for circuit use in the front of a car that already understeers like a pig - for santa pod, more of a good idea - 200bhp so what - I have 217 from a 2L16V and a sound to die for - more superbike than car!
I still like the idea that you did it though to an ibiza - respect.
Cheers
Rob
Lucky_32
06-11-2002, 18:35
Yes yes throttle bodies and a decent performance exhaust manifold - me want!!:love4:
hopkinsgm
06-11-2002, 19:16
Originally posted by Dormouse
...I though the break points were now 1400, 1600 and 2000...
Depends on the championship - you'll often find that the break points are different for production based cars and kit based cars too.
Originally posted by Dormouse
...It's all in the blue book any way...
Not true - as break points are different for different championships, it'd be a bit daft if it were in the Blue Book wouldn't it?
Whatever, where the class breaks are is not really the issue - the point was that you could build a cracking engine only to find that you end up in a class of far more exotic and considerably faster machinery. But obviously, this only applies if the car is to be used competitively (and not in some half assed Savoury Snack vs S-Club shenanigans...
G
rob,m speaking to vince at stealth ,he says that there isn't alot between the 1816v and the 20vt in the weight stakes,says the 20vt head is lighter.
vr-6 why not go for TB'S on the old vr would make a niose to die for:D
6x throttle bodies & ancillaries....
and a clever ECU.
caaaacccccccccchhhhhhhhhhhhhhhing says Bill
Does Lorna know about these planned mods for her new car???
;) :p ;)
duhhhhh - this is for the white one
she said i can have hers as a play car in 4 years time :D
Dormouse
07-11-2002, 20:56
it'd be a bit daft if it were in the Blue Book wouldn't it?
Unless it's FIA it should be in there.
I'll get my Scrutineering notes an av'e a look.
Ta.
Dor.
ibizacupra
08-11-2002, 09:29
Originally posted by vr6-ibiza
all depends on what you want
1.8T - Brilliant, tunable, light, 400bhp, (need some engine rebuilds every 1000miles or so though :( )
Who on earth told you that?
:confused:
Bill
Ps..VR6 comments... not like your biased at all :p ;)
vr6-ibiza
08-11-2002, 10:33
Originally posted by ibizacupra
Who on earth told you that?
:confused:
Bill
Ps..VR6 comments... not like your biased at all :p ;)
Who told you otherwise ????
VR6 has bad points too, a very heavy engine..and err well thats about it.
Dormouse
08-11-2002, 11:13
It's a good point. Has the 1.8T really been arount long enough in it's various 'big road' tuning guises to conduct a decent reliability study?
Dor.
There is a bloke who is pushing 400+bhp (think close to 500) from his golf and the engine has just gone at 40k + miles.
even untuned not that many about to say 'yes it does big miles'
having said that, this isn't going to be a big mile car.
Originally posted by Dormouse
It's a good point. Has the 1.8T really been arount long enough in it's various 'big road' tuning guises to conduct a decent reliability study?
Dor.
1.8t was used in passats in 94 so its been about for a while now,not sure on tuned ones though,like any engine look after it and it'll go on much better than if ya don't:cheers:
Dormouse
08-11-2002, 12:41
1.8t was used in passats in 94 so its been about for a while now,
Hmm..thought that version of passat only has the 1.8 SPi or 1.8 MPi GT engine? The 1.8T's came in in the 1997/8 cars didn't it?
like any engine look after it and it'll go on much better than if ya don't
Very very true. A little maintainance goes a long way!
Dor.
ibizacupra
08-11-2002, 13:23
Originally posted by vr6-ibiza
Who told you otherwise ????
VR6 has bad points too, a very heavy engine..and err well thats about it.
Experience tells me otherwise :p
VR6=thirsty beast but lovely sound :D
Bill
ibizacupra
08-11-2002, 13:24
Originally posted by Dormouse
It's a good point. Has the 1.8T really been arount long enough in it's various 'big road' tuning guises to conduct a decent reliability study?
Dor.
Yes and yes.
Check out VWVortex....
1.8 20VT has been around for years now.
Well proven and good track record.
Bill
I did forget to change the oil in my car for like 35,000 miles earlier this year, but it's not complaining much
VR sounds nice (housemates Vento every morning [vroom vroom burble burble]) but I doubt it'd handle as well, so would therefore be slower?
Mark
vr6-ibiza
08-11-2002, 13:42
Originally posted by MarkP
I did forget to change the oil in my car for like 35,000 miles earlier this year, but it's not complaining much
VR sounds nice (housemates Vento every morning [vroom vroom burble burble]) but I doubt it'd handle as well, so would therefore be slower?
Mark
All Depends on how the car is setup with a VR. I can chuck mine around corners no probs, but in the wet forget it.
Straight lines, puurrrrrfect, okay maybe a little biased (ope i spelt that right) as i have a VR, so i shall comment no further. If you look into the VWvortex forums, the question 1.8T or VR6 has been millions of times with mixed responses and the debate could go on and on forever,
So i reckon RS6 engine !!!! in a beeza
I did start to work out a subframe & RWD arrangement for that, but I'd need to extend the bonnet & grill 'a lot' or cut the bulkhead.
Mark