View Full Version : Ecoteck
Brokenlegs
06-11-2002, 16:15
Just a quick qestion just about to install one of these ecotek CP-26B valves has anyone else had any experiance with these good or bad?
Still waitibg for the Frorge DV to arrive and next off to Jabba for a quick tune up.
And lets see what my standard leon makes after reading all the other posts on claimed HP figures it will be intresting to say the least. Will post the graphs as and when I get them.
What other mods can you do which will give you free horsepower without chipping? I have heard of a different intake pipe is this any good?
Thanks again.
Mark.
Ecoteks are good. They aren't amazing, but they are good. Basically don't expect huge power boosts, just expect things to be smoother and more responsive.
Other mods that give you more horsepower are an induction kit which can give up to 10hp. Use a cold air intake with an induction kit for better performance. Other mods include a performance exhaust but that can be quite expensive.
cordobabrendy
06-11-2002, 19:49
i had one in and it never seemed to make much of a diff for me except for the annoying SQUEEEEEEEEEEEE noise every time you ease off the acc, i did notice that it made my brakes a bit softer seeing as it connects into the vaccum line to the brakes. :O
mine is now sitting in a box in my mum and dads house. in my eyes it was a rip off but something i wanted to try to satisfy my curiosity.:(
I didn't mention it before but it is meant to help with your fuel economy. I don't know if there has been any scientific test of the differences in fuel economy. I think there was one, but i never actually saw it though it claimed there where increases of 25% in fuel economy. I couldn't say for sure what differences it had on my fuel economy, as i didn't track my fuel usage before getting the ecotek. The figures would also have been skewed as my engine was only a 1000 miles old and not very loose.
Brokenlegs
07-11-2002, 15:50
Fitted the ecotek unit last night and went for a blast the car does seem more responsive and slightly free revving but thats about it. The noise it not noticeble as the valve is set correcty, i get only very slighty straw sucking sound on overrun.
Lets see how things go. I didnt buy it for economy just to try and help my lumpy tickover which it has done. As i drive around the uk a lot lets see how the ecomany fairs I curently get if i drived hard around 330mpg to a tank full and if i take it steady with the odd mad sprint hello Mr Subura.....lol around 420mpg
I am impressed with the cars performace anyway as stock and it must be making more than 180 but lets see what the rollers say in a couple of weeks.
Mark.
I would not trust anything that bleeds air out of the brake servo
I have never seen any concrete evidence that these things work at all - an air leak giving more power etc etc what a load of crap.
Rob
CRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAP
squeeks & did nothing, stuck a silencer on it & it just over fuelled to the point that the only way i could drive was foot to the floor & did a tank in 75miles.
take notice of people like Dave Walker who tested one rather than someone who wants to sell you one
it's like most stuff though, people won't admit that they wasted money (I did)
LEO LION R
08-11-2002, 09:17
What happened to the freebie given to the site for someone to test ?
Is it still being tested or were there no takers ?
:cheers:
BrokenLegs: your getting 330mpg, shit, and heres me hobling along on 32mpg :D
Vibrio: As i understand it, the flow of that air that runs though the break servo hose goes straight into the inlet manifold. How would this affect the pressure for the brake servo??? Not saying your wrong, just need clarification of your point.
RobT: From what i understand (i know this could be company hype) but it is derived from F1 technology. And i can see how creating huge ammounts of turbulance in the air would give a better mix of air and fuel so it makes sense that it should work.
Originally posted by LDoR
RobT: From what i understand (i know this could be company hype) but it is derived from F1 technology. And i can see how creating huge ammounts of turbulance in the air would give a better mix of air and fuel so it makes sense that it should work.
Ok, I see how this may be of benefit in theory but I have never seen any data on this - even from the company itself - shouldn't be so hard to do, go to rolling road, test, fit valve and test again. CCC / Dave Walker did this on a golf and it didn't do anything. As its so simple, I cannot help thinking that as the company dont drag around RR plots to demonstrate the benefit, it doesn't do much.
Cheers
Rob
I wouldn't of thought that the ecotek valve can actually work at all in a forced induction car as when under boost, the inlet manifold is under positive pressure rather than vacuum, as in an NA car. Wouldn't that keep the valve closed?
Well they say that it's meant to work with turbo cars, the only cars it doesn't work with is diesels.
As for test, i think that mags such as Revs, Max Power, Redline and the such have done reviews and they said that there where gains to be had. Also from what i understand, it isn't supposed to increas your hp so a rr test shouldn't show any thing in theory. It's only in some situations that you'll get a 1-2hp more increase. But as they, what it really does is increase reponsivness and smoothen things out.
And one thing i'd like to add that is a personal observation of the ecotek is the odd performance surge it gives in 3rd gear. Like last night i was turining out of the uni drive following a 1.4 Rover metro. The road turns to a dual carridge way for a bit. Decided i was going to get past this thing. It wasn't going slowly at all, it was going at a respectable pace. However pulled out and was getting past him pretty swiftly, but then wheni changed into 3rd and the revs climbed a bit, the car suddenly leapped forward and left the poor metro standing. It's an odd feeling and is almost like a very bad case of turbo lag. But yet i only get this in 3rd gear and i know it never did this with out the ecotek. Odd but true.
If you want test results look here
http://www.ecotekplc.com/test_results.htm
Brokenlegs
13-11-2002, 18:28
ok done 2 tank fulls of fuel so far and the results are i'm not sure?
What do I mean by not sure well I dont hear the slurping noise like others have reported fuel ecomomy does seem a little better if u dont cane it i mean if u potter around like a old man then yes its better but otherwise no difference.
As for performance well again not sure it does feel more free reving and it seems as though it does pull harder over 3k but its very marginal and i'm not sure its worth the dosh to be honest but lets see what happens when its put on the rollers if the is any difference before and after.
I do think it might work for some if like me you do alot of motorway miles and high ish speeds then you do save fuel but otherwise i would not bother unless u want a ickle bit and i mean ickle bit more performance.
I would go spend your dosh on something that will make real differece that u will notice.
I build motorbike race engines in my spare time as I have been racing bikes at national level for many years until the crash and I am a firm believer in every little bit helps you know a bit here and there and it all adds up so I am going to leave the unit on and when the other mods come along it might make more of a difference but then who knows.
Next step is a chip upgrade from Jabba, a custom made intercooler from my mates at radtec, new inlet pipe, full exhaust system from milltek and some 17 inch wheels. Not sure if to fit the ajustable turbo boost gizmo or not as its only £99 extra when u get the car chipped. And the last thing brakes and need to get my act together and order those bloody brembo's from bill.
In the previos posts people seem to be worried about connecting something to the brake servo well this is not an issue if u understand that the servo does not need that much vaccum in the first place to work accordingly and by adding the ecotek i have not noticed any difference in break performance or feel and i do brake very hard I have always been nick named when racing the last of the late brakers
so there is know worries there.
Mark.
cordobabrendy
13-11-2002, 18:37
the ecotek isnt supposed to be a performance enhancer, its supposed to smooth out delivery a tiny bit and the way it saves fuel is on lifting off the throttle, on the mway it'll not make the noise much as its all very constant, the erason your not getting the noise is because its too tight, its supposed to be audible on idle plus then 1 quarter turn tighter, it should be audible from inside the car if its working right, they even deigned a little sock to go over it to help with noise pollution. trust me when its set up right its a noisey fecker and is as useful as a fart in a spacesuit.
Acorrding to the tunning guide when properly tunned,on idle it's supossed to be inaudiable. And the silencer is supposed to cut out allof the noise when it's properly bedded in.
cordobabrendy
13-11-2002, 20:59
as i said mate, just audible on idle, then turn it a quarter more, this makes idle silent. but lift off is awful.
on a similar subject, has anyone got a letter with a "voucher" included for Power Boost, their new shitty product, 10k boost in a different tin methinks. tho i havnt actually gotten round to telling them to stuff their £27 cans right up their arses.:confused:
by the way, no i dont work for the company!!
i havnt tried this spray, but theres no way im paying 27 quid on that, i'd rather have another tank of petrol to play with.
i now use mine to bleed the radiators in the house,complete and utter shite(imho of course)put it line on a pipe and suck it'll help you get air out of a dodgy radiator without getting fluid in yer gob and bleed the system(in theory of course).hey theres a market opening up here send all ecotech to me,i'm off to the plumb centre:p
Originally posted by cordobabrendy
as i said mate, just audible on idle, then turn it a quarter more, this makes idle silent. but lift off is awful.
Oh sorry, read your last post wrong then.
Whoops:rolleyes:
Shock_Xe
13-11-2002, 23:40
Im selling mine if interested with piper x silencer in blue
cordobabrendy
14-11-2002, 19:26
Originally posted by LDoR
Oh sorry, read your last post wrong then.
Whoops:rolleyes:
hehe wouldnt worry about it mate, i just think that, from experience, these gadgets are shite, if they were so good, the manufacturer would have them fitted as standard.
Fair enough mate, i spose everyone will have a different opinion on these things.
I still don't see how these things can work on a turbo car no matter what the manufacturer says. If the inlet manifold is under positive pressure (which it is in a turbo'd car) then how can the ecotek vavle possibly let air in through it?
Also, this valve (on an NA car) only introduces what is basically an air leak (more air into the sysytem which the car hasn't metered) thereby leaning out the fuel/air mixture which can't be good.
exactly - so all you're doing it leaking boost out the hole
this is why Max Power (etc) extensivly tested it - no doubt taking advertisers money for adverts - and said 'YES, it's the best thing in teh world'
and CCC tested it & on a VAG 1.8T in a Mk1 & said it was shit.
CCC tested it on a dyno.
The reason it works in an NA car is that it create a better fuel suspension in the air as the air is more turbulant (a turbo does this anyway which is why it doesn't seem to work in a turbo car). A better fuel suspension leads to better more efficient and more powerful combustion. This is why leaning out te fuel doesn't matter, the more efficient burn compenstates for this (thats the theory anyway). Apparantly the same idea is used in F1 cars which are NA cars. Makes sense to me anyway.
Originally posted by MarkP
exactly - so all you're doing it leaking boost out the hole
this is why Max Power (etc) extensivly tested it - no doubt taking advertisers money for adverts - and said 'YES, it's the best thing in teh world'
and CCC tested it & on a VAG 1.8T in a Mk1 & said it was shit.
CCC tested it on a dyno.
Some may say this is bitter and cynical, but not me. Dyno's, generally don't lie (at least they should be consistent for a given car on a given day used by a given operator). Do Ecotec actually say it gives more power though ? they say things like 'better throttle response' which is very hard to quantify - seat of the pants dyno can be very misleading IMO. They do say better economy and emissions and have data to back this up - if this is what you want then fine but I wouldn't fit one as a power gaining exercise !
Ave it
Rob
also linked to the 'this £50 thing makes my car feel faster cos I don't want to feel like I got robbed'
also
the day your car runs an F1 engine then you can start to compare... i mean - they rev to 19,000 rpm - the air they'll suck thru is a little more than yours
Originally posted by LDoR
more efficient and more powerful combustion. This is why leaning out te fuel doesn't matter, the more efficient burn compenstates for this (thats the theory anyway). Apparantly the same idea is used in F1 cars which are NA cars. Makes sense to me anyway.
More efficient - perhaps - but more powerful - THERE IS NO DATA TO SUPPORT THIS - I followed up the links you posted and the vast majority of reports go on about throttle response, economy and emissions - with vast amounts of data to support economy and emissions. If the data was there to support a power gain then why isn't it reported ?
By the way - leaning an engine is a very bad idea especially when its on load - temperatures rise dramatically and holed pistons result.
Rob
Rob:
I didn't mean more power being generted, i meant that the combustion was better i.e. less waste of fuel, the smaller the droplets the fuel the more rapidly the fuel burns (the same principle is true of the size of granuals or gunpowder) and the less wastefull it is. Therefore, for a given ammount of fuel, the energy produced is produced more efficiently/more rapidly which ever term is best.
On your point about leaning the fuel mixture. Well actually it isn't leaning it in the sense of reducing the ammount of air per ammount of fuel, the ECU lowers the ammount of fuel injected because there is less air (since it it being bled away) coming in, well thats how i understand it. So in theory it shouldn't cause engine damge. But what do i know, i'm no engineer. :)
Mark: I wasn't comparing to an F1 engine at all. I just said that it borrows technnology used in F1, well more precisley, theorys form F1. Nothing to do with comparing engines mate.
The valve is actually sucking more air in. This extra air hasn't been metered by the ecu as itsn't entered via the air flow meter. Therefore, the mixture must be leaning out more as the ecu doesn't know that more air is being introduced.
Brokenlegs
18-11-2002, 15:46
Hey from my initail post i seem to have stirred good conversation.
As I reported from my second post it does seem more free reving and more efficient when driving a little more sedate but i have not noticed and power increase.
Fuel econamy has improved at the mo by on average 2.2mpg so my average now is around 34.6 on the last 3 tanks fulls this includes motorway urban and hard driving those bloosy honda type "R"'s are fast.
One thing I would like to clear up is the servo issue there does seem to be some mis-understanding on this issue. The sevro works under vaccum pressure not postive pressure. I know you guys think that air is been forced out of the valve but it isnt the vaccum caused by the pistons going up and down is far more than the pressure been fed by the turbo. Even though u think the manifold is under postive pressure it is always under a vaccum condition as it is always scavageing for air. The ammount of air in the inlet manifold does determine engine HP or the ammount of air available thats why on motorbikes when they fit the 33HP restriction to larger bikes all they fit is washers in the manifold to restrict the air flow and there for reduce the HP. If you would like a full explanation of the why's and where's of how engine fundamentals work I would only be happy to help.
So far i am still unsure about the device I have 2 more weeks in which to get my cash back so lets see.
Mark.
Surely if it was the case that the inlet is always in a vacuum condition, then there would be little point in having a turbo/super charger? On a drag car for instance, if what you say is true, then why don't they just run with the inlet open to atmosphere rather than bolting a bloody great super charger on?