View Full Version : What no shock stocks!!!
HenryCupra
25-10-2001, 11:37
Help
I've got a leaky near-side shock absorber after nearly 10k. My local Seat dealer has taken over a month to get some in. Does anyone know of any other localish official Seat dealers that would have Cupra shocks in stock. I am in the Cambridge region, Marshall Seat being my local dealer. The car is starting to feel like a choppy trip to France on a Seacat.
Any help would be appreciated.
Whilst on the subject of shocks, can anyone (Flapper Daz possibly) tell me if the Cupra and the SE's have the same shocks and springs. I know the brochure shows the SE as havin sports suspension, but it don't half bonce around on the front...maybe due to the heavy Diesel engine???
Failing that, I wonder if the Harder Octavia RS suspension will fit, although I suspect the ride height would be too high....
I'd be interested to find that out too.....I've always assumed that they have the same suspension 'cos of the brochure "sports suspension" statement too.
I know that the (euro) 2wd TDI150 (not the cupra4 TDI150) looks identical to our UK 20VT Cupra (except for exhaust trim) and gets 20% stiffer front shocks than the 110TDI......and also the 12.5" front discs as opposed to 11.5".
My car "boings" far less than my fathers since I changed to 16"s with 205/55's.......I think most of the bounce you feel is due to the 65 profile OEM tyres.
Also - not sure the diesel unit is actually any heavier than the petrol ~ TDI110 tips the scales about 20kg lighter than a 20VT, which carries no extra equipment.......
Compare the weight of the 1.8SE V the 1.9SE TDi and you'll see a difference. Diesel engines are always heavier than petrol alternatives:)
1.8 20V SE = 1297kg
110 TDI = 1314 kg
1.8 20VT = 1322 kg
Do 12.5" discs weigh 8kg more than 11.5"?
I don't disagree that diesels are usually heavier.....just can't see any evidence here! :)
1.8 20V SE = 1297kg
110 TDI SE = 1314 kg
Is this not eviedence??? You have to compare SE against SE, not SE against Cupra. the question is more, why is the Cupra 25kg more than the 1.8SE which has the same interior etc......!!!
Maybe a combination of bigger disks, uprated roll bars??, slightly bigger wheels etc could make a difference.
Lets just say I am confedent that the Diesel engine is heavier than the std 1.8.
Yes sir ~ I agree the diesel is heavier than the 1.8 unit in non-turbo form.
I cannot however make the same statement in regard to the 1.8 turbo...... :p which (as you said) is identical bar wheels/tyres/chrome exhaust trim (how heavy is that? ;) ) and the 1" bigger front disks.....
Well, we can't blame 25kg on a Turbo and Intercooler, so either there is a mistake (i.e, they are quoting the European 4x4 version), or the extra few items (inc. CD multi changer too) makes up the weight. I've driven a VT Cupra, and it doesn't feel as nose heavy leading me to believe that the extra weight is infact not sprung weight (i.e. brakes, wheels etc).
Maybe we'll never find out:D
oooh.....a mystery! :cool:
I just remembered the 6-speed box.....wonder how much that accounts for?
Just to clarify (or not) .....data from Seat.com site...all quoted as car without driver....
1.8 20V SE = 1222kg
110TDI = 1239kg
1.8 20VT = 1247kg
150TDI = 1307kg
1.8 20VT 4wd = 1387kg
150TDI 4wd = 1414kg
2.8 V6 4wd = 1483kg
We've already agreed the diesel looks 17kg heavier than the 1.8 non-turbo.
The 150TDI (2wd) and 20VT have same interior, wheels etc, and both have 6-speed box.....the 150 diesel is 60kg heavier (!).
The 150TDI cupra4 and 2.8V6 Cupra 4 have identical interior, 17" wheels, 4wd etc etc, and the diesel is 69kg lighter than the V6.
Interestingly, UK cupra has better power to weight ratio than the european 2.8 cupra4.....
The plot thickens!!!
Diff between TDi 150 and TDi 150 4wd = 107kg
Diff between 20VT and 20VT 4wd = 40kg
Diff between TDi 110 and TDi 150 = 68kg
So, what we're saying is, the 4wd system is 107kg heavier on the TDi's, but only 40kg on the 20VT???
And that the extra bits on the TDi 150 are an extra 68kg (nearly 11 stone), thats quite something considering they both use a 6 speed...!!!!:D
Are you as confused as i am???
confused LOL all those numbers make me dizzy
as for your shocker , ask em for the part number and ill see if i can check out the problem
TIP : if they have VOR'd it ,tell em they will NEVER get it as it is classed as a dangerous part and is available in STOCK ORDER only
if they won't give you the number , chances are the label is STILL on the part itself , have a scratch around (usually on the rear)
ill double check they are ordering it right as well
01242 586313
DAZ
ps back next week mind (holiday)
HenryCupra
26-10-2001, 09:55
Hmmmm very confused. I think the 'weighting' game has been played long enough.
Anyway, the part number is 1J0413031DP. Marshalls mentioned VOR when I spoke to them. So I guess this is the method they used to order them. I have since spoken to Seat customer care to try and find out what is causing the delay.
In the meantime hope you enjoy your holiday and if you can give a greater insight into what is going on I'm sure I wont be the only one that would appreciate the information.
:cheers:
Originally posted by TDi 110
Are you as confused as i am???
YUP! :D
I assume the 6speed box is the same of petrol and diesel...
On a different subject ~ the ratios of the 6speed box confuse me! 5th and 4th are practically identical (for the 1.8 20VT 5th is actually lower geared in the box than 4th) which implies some kind of change of final drive when you go from 4th into 5th....like an "overdrive"......wierd.
Back to the original subject ~ I'd expect the 150PD engine to be heavier than the 110, since it has 4 fuel pumps. Just not that much heavier.
Final wander away from subject ~ have you noticed the 4wd system reduces boot space from 340litres to only 270. :eek:
henry, how do you find marshalls?(yes i know it is newmarket road) i mean for service and parts? it will be my local dealer then i get my car
Mik,
Just a little reference on your comment about gear ratio's:
http://www.carkeys.co.uk/roadtest/RT000091.htm
The relevant bit is:
"(One last thing about the gearbox, though - fourth gear is actually higher than fifth! Yes, honestly. The ratios are 1.151:1 and 1.166:1 respectively. But the revs still drop when you change up, the reason being that the top two gears are connected to a much higher-ratio final drive than the other four. Worth bearing in mind if you happen to get involved in a discussion about Motoring Trivia.)"
Thought you might be interested. :)
Phatt!
Thanks Phatt! Confirms my thoughts.....
.....but hows it done? You can't have two different differentials....
Epicyclic gearing? Don't "ye-olde" overdrive systems use epicyclic gears?
What happens if it fails? Do you change up at the redline in 4th and bring the cluch back up in 5th only to find you are at redline + 250rpm?.......scary....
Now I want to see an exploded diagram! :rolleyes:
Mik,
It's probably done just as the review said. A final drive system isn't, after all, limited to just one gear.
I'll try some ANSI art. :)
_______
______
_____ ______ (selects gears 1, 2, 3, and 4)
____
_____ ______ (selects gears 5, and 6)
____
A friend described it to me in terms of a pedal cycle. You drive from the back, but the front portion is geared. On more advanced bikes, however, the drive portion is geared, too, which changes the behavior of the front gears. I think that would kinda explain the strange ratio's, but predictable behaviour?
Or not. As I've said before, I don't know a whole lot about this stuff. Flames to the usual address. ;)
I know you already know all this, I'm just kinda trying to explain my way around the ratio's. :D
Phatt!
Edit: in terms of the red line thing, I think that despite the ratio's the revs will still be lower. It's just a way to distribute the torque dofferently at higher gears?
Sorry for the thread hijack Henrycupra! (cool username btw :cool: )
Phatt ~ I'll give you 9/10 for effort and drawings, but I'm not sure that's right mate :D
A car gearbox is exactly different to bike gears. :)
ALL of your gears sets are in constant mesh. When you select a gear, you are simply locking that set of gears onto the output shaft (if not selected, they just spin on it).
To get a higher final ratio from 5th (and 6th) there must be a change to the final drive either before or after the differential. I'm guessing this is a set of epicylic gears (?).
If this "gearing multiplier" fails, then you'd get exactly the scenario I described.......change up at redline in 4th and find yourself bouncing off the rev limiter in 5th. This is obviously "not a very good thing", so I assume there are some fail-safe systems in there (?). :confused:
This may well be a "standard design" for modern 6-speeders (?)
Can you just pop outside and remove your gearbox for me ~ open it up, and do some more artwork of the internals? I'm now rather intrigued!
PS~ I learned about gearboxes when I was a student, and my Fiat Superstrada decided to "select" 1st gear whilst I was already in 5th at 70mph. That's another story, that involves 160ft black lines, massive flatspots, rather bent driveshafts, a split gearbox housing and some dirty underwear :(
Mik,
I'll be out drinking tonight with the friend I mentioned. I'll get him to explain it to me again ( and draw it on the back of a beer mat - you know how I like to draw! ;) ) as I probably passed it on wrong.
I certainly wasn't suggesting that a car was geared like a pedal cycle, just trying to illustrate the point. :D
I'd love to be able to have a look at the gearing systems, but my 20VT isn't delivered until a week next Thursday. :(
Phatt!
Next thursday would be fine....I've heard that a gearbox strip-down is beneficial prior to running-in :D
Originally posted by HenryCupra
Marshalls mentioned VOR when I spoke to them. So I guess this is the method they used to order them. I have since spoken to Seat customer care to try and find out what is causing the delay.
:cheers:
mmmm that may be the problem then , see if they can tell you if stock is shown @ the factory , if it is ask em to STOCK ORDER instead , if no stock shown @ the factory they will need to FAX to the P.I.C. to see if a date is available , but trust me if they do the dates are a little unreliable
HenryCupra
27-10-2001, 11:43
Hi Pugwash
This is my first experience with the Marshalls parts dept. As far as service goes they are fine. They replied to my phone calls etc. I think they are a reasonable dealership. I think the problem is with Seat, or their suppliers in Spain. Marshalls have had shocks on back order for some weeks now. Basic service items like filters, plugs etc. seem to be no problem.
I have been speaking to Francis in parts and Frank in Sales. I suggest you phone up parts dept and test them on non service item stock. I might have had a better idea of time scales if I had!
Hope this helps.
HenryCupra
27-10-2001, 11:50
Hi Flapper
I think they have a shortage at the factory. They have sent two faxes and received two estimated delivery dates but, they just seem to be pushed back another week etc... I hope this will not go on for long.
Thanks again.
Leon20vt4
27-10-2001, 14:38
Just to go back to the weight discussion 4 a bit:
Originally posted by TDi 110
The plot thickens!!!
So, what we're saying is, the 4wd system is 107kg heavier on the TDi's, but only 40kg on the 20VT???
Are you as confused as i am???
Actually if you look at the numbers, you'll find that the 4wd setup (Haldex, Rear diff and -I'm quite sure- different rear suspension) adds a grand total of 140kg to the car weight. I know, I've had my ass kicked by a fwd 180 TT and weights are quite similar. On very grippy tarmac (quite rare in Greece, it's just my luck I guess...), where I did not have the advantage of no whelspin, he gained about half a car length in every gear... :( The guy actually told me that that is exactly how much he gains on 4wd 180 TTs as well. Do the UK fwd cupras have a torsion beam/trailing arm/something like that rear susp? In Greece they do, while my 20vt4 gets multi-link.
:( sorry my man , upon checkin the part no it is in indeed out of stock :(
i have had a scratch around one of our demo's lookin for the part number off the strut to check as there seems to be a few options listed :eek: i will soon get a chance to check one with a wheel off in the workshop , i'll keep you updated as i want to be sure that pat number is correct :rolleyes:
HenryCupra
30-10-2001, 20:48
Many thanks Flapper. :)