View Full Version : remap or ecu upgrade ?
LEO LION R
21-11-2002, 13:51
I am having a long debate withmyself so i thought it would be nice if we could all join in, seeing as how i know very little about both.
Which do you think is best for the long term, and why ?
essentially the same thing mate.
Most tuners remove your eprom chip from the ECU and replace it with their own "writeable" eprom, which they program themselves.
The ECU itself is not removed from the car and replaced with a new one (unless your name is Zboyd :p )
LEO LION R
21-11-2002, 14:25
well put it another way then, am i right in thinking that a remap involves the writing of an updated ecu program, but with it also RR'd to tweek to indivual cars performances.
Whereas the replacement ecu (whether it be replaced physically or not) is a generic tuned upgrade, which for all intents and purposes is like a tuning box (yip i know different position in the chain of electronics) but in principal it can be fitted to any car of that engine type, and perhaps doesn't allow for variances in factory standard power outputs, or the cars mileage (run n or not)
My interpretatio would be;
remap = vehicle specific RR tuned upgrade
ecu upgrade = replacing the program for a generic upgrade
:cheers:
Ok
re-map and ECU upgrade, majority of people use these terms to mean the same thing. The fuelling/boost and a.n.other parameters set by the ECU are changed/upgraded to provide better perfomance over standard.
in the case of our cars, this is achieved by either:
A) soldering a new eproms chip to your ECU and writing the program to it, whether this program is a "generic" program or whether it is a blank eproms programmed to your car on a set of rollers.
B) A tuning box is usually a "pigy-back" type which means your standard ECU is not removed, but the "box" bosses your ECU into doing what it says, ie. more fuel/boost etc.
As for run-in miles and differences in power outputs, some tuners offer a window of adaptability within their programs, this can alter the way the ECU controls the ignition advance and also adjust to the type of fuel used.
Rolling ROad tuning offers you a way of adapting a program to a specific car, plus you get a printout of before and after the "re-map" has taken place.
The pro's and con's of each method have been well documented as you know.
That should answer your question (i think)
:cheers:
LEO LION R
21-11-2002, 14:56
Cheers, any sugs as to where i find the pros and cons ?
I tried the search and not much there, and did they discuss the long term effects of either?
:cheers:
If you'z talkin about tuning boxes vs remaps then you iz talkin about diesels.
I don't know of any tuning-box type solutions for petrol veehikles. :confused:
mik
tuning boxes are basically a piggy back chip
piggy back chips available for petrol cars are the unichip, and the starchip i think.
LEO LION R
21-11-2002, 16:46
Right well i've trawled through a hoard of threads about ecu's, and none seem to talk about the possible shortening of the cars lifespan (parts like the turbo)
Would there be much difference in wear of parts when ecu's are reprogrammed, and if so could there be any difference between this wear for an individually tuned upgrade (Jabba for example) and a generic ecu upgrade (APR for example)?
:confused:
:cheers:
TBH honest Leo, as far as my knowledge goes, these engines were designed to run circa 200bhp using the k-03 turbo.
i cant recall anyone suffering turbo failures or thrown rods and the like.
i dont think anyone (bar mosser) whos done mega miles on a 1.8t.
wouldnt of thought long term reliability would be affected.
short term, i would be 99% sure it wouldnt.
ibizacupra
21-11-2002, 17:03
Originally posted by LEO LION R
Right well i've trawled through a hoard of threads about ecu's, and none seem to talk about the possible shortening of the cars lifespan (parts like the turbo)
Would there be much difference in wear of parts when ecu's are reprogrammed, and if so could there be any difference between this wear for an individually tuned upgrade (Jabba for example) and a generic ecu upgrade (APR for example)?
:confused:
:cheers:
My opinion (for what its worth and from bad personal experience of one make of chip) is to get a before and after RR done as part of whatever chip/remap route you choose.
Off the shelf chips work well in many applications, but Ibiza's (not that you have one) do seem prone to large anomolies and varying std power levels, let alone chipped power levels.
APR have good products and some dealers with the RR facility to demonstrate the before and after figures. Jabbasport also do this as a matter of course, as every car is mapped to suit its spec, as they do not do one chip for all.
Both companies have their merits and both have good service and technical support.
Your choice, your money, you have to live with it after all.
As for long term reliability, I have'nt heard bad things from either companies product (APR, Jabbasport) and neither of them max out boost for the sake of power at the expense of reliability.
Beware of some companies claiming TUV approvals and warranties, as all that glitters is not gold. (been there, got burned, won't be going back)
Good luck
regards
Bill
LEO LION R
21-11-2002, 17:14
Cheers guys, that helps.
:cheers:
P.S. standard one i have is 210 not 180 ;) the thought of 250 sounds good. but i'll probably wait for a bit longer into the warranty.
ibizacupra
21-11-2002, 17:23
Originally posted by LEO LION R
Cheers guys, that helps.
:cheers:
P.S. standard one i have is 210 not 180 ;) the thought of 250 sounds good. but i'll probably wait for a bit longer into the warranty.
Loads of potential :D
Nice one.. :)
Bill
Cupramax
23-11-2002, 22:51
Leo,
Speaking from experience 250hp is great, but only of any use when its dry (is it ever dry in Scotland)...:rolleyes:. Its wheelspin central in the wet so usually turn the chip off via the cruise control stalk that comes with the APR chip.
On the reliability front I've trolled every VAG tuning forum including VWVortex and Audisport.net and have only heard of coilpacks failing, Never turbo's. Couple of the guys with chipped S3's have done over 100,000 miles with no issues.
Originally posted by LEO LION R
I am having a long debate withmyself so i thought it would be nice if we could all join in,
take your sick perverse fantasys out of the forum :lol:
remap
I like Leo have been pondering the APR or Jabba route. going on all the posts i've seen so far, I doubt that there is much difference between them.
Maybe it's worth waiting until the rumoured 'official' seat approved upgrade arrives June time next year. I don't know if this will be the same APR upgrade the greek guys have had. i suppose only APR can answer that one :)
As CupraMax says, 250 bhp in the wet would spin the wheels easily. If it's anything like the 172 clio I used to own, too much right foot and wheel spin a plenty :D
:devil:
JaSeW
Originally posted by vibrio
take your sick perverse fantasys out of the forum :lol:
Yeah, if we all join in, doesn't that make it a mass-debate....groan. :)
Cheers
Andy
stop that. you'll only give him ideas :D
LEO LION R
25-11-2002, 11:41
Speaking from experience 250hp is great, but only of any use when its dry (is it ever dry in Scotland)...:rolleyes:. Its wheelspin central in the wet so usually turn the chip off via the cruise control stalk that comes with the APR chip.
Yes it is wet a lot of the time (escpecially this time of year) but we do get dry days as well :rolleyes:.
A valid point though is the wet conditions, i find it can get a lot of wheelspin in the standard R, so i can only imagine that it's a lot worse for 252bhp.
On the reliability front I've trolled every VAG tuning forum including VWVortex and Audisport.net and have only heard of coilpacks failing, Never turbo's. Couple of the guys with chipped S3's have done over 100,000 miles with no issues.
Spot on, that's what i looking for. :cheers:
Vibrio, I thought our air mass debating sessions were going to be our little secret :redface: too much heat not good ;)