View Full Version : SEAT Milton Keynes..I'm Dissolusioned Big Time.
OK, I'm going to blow a few gaskets here and upset some people now, but WTF, in my book, the truth has to be told.
Last week, I saw a Yr 2000 Alhambra SE TDi on 50k miles on the SEAT Milton Keynes website priced £12495.
Mmmmm, methinks, cheap Bammer! I phoned MK and asked the salesman (Roy) if there is a reason why it is so cheap. His reply is "Nope, bit of a high mileage but is really, really nice, if not we would of traded it on"
I then phoned Chris (Rally-man) yesterday and asked for reassurances about the condition of the car and a ball park figure for my Bammer. The figure he gave me for my car was quite good. Chris explained that although the Bammer he had for sale was of highish mileage, it was of such a very high standard that he had decided not trade it on but decided to put it up for retail sale.
Me now interested.
This morning I decided to travel to MK to see the Bammer, but first I phoned MK to say I am on my way, so please do not sell it and the receptionist said that Chris is not in his office but she will pass on the message.
5 minutes from MK I received a phone call from Chris asking if I have left home yet.
"Errrmmm, I'm 5 minutes away from MK", I reply.
"Oh dear, the Bammer was sold this morning by one of my salesmen and he has taken a deposit on it" Chris replies.
"You're joking?" I reply.
"Nope, sorry"
I carry on to SEAT MK and meet Chris, my blood pressure peaking-out off the Richter Scale.
We had a discussion and I eventually calmed down. It was not Chris's fault, it seems he did not know the Bammer had been already sold.
After viewing a passing-by German Leon 4 (very nice!) I happen to take a look over this already sold Bammer which has been described to me by nice Mr Salesman Roy Pollard and Chris (Rally-man) as being feckin' immaculate.
Well, TBH, if you ever wanted to see a piece of 2 year old uncared-for shite Bammer, then here you go!!!
On this so described "immaculate Bammer", the paintwork looked as if it had been scoured by a Brillo by being put through auto car-washes, the inside was filthy and marked, a badge was missing and the alloys were kerbed. There was enough dirt and filth on the crease of the driver's seat to suggest it had never, ever been cleaned since new. This was a car that was described to me as being immaculate and what I did a round trip of 100 miles to go and see.
My 1999 Bammer put it to shame. As Chris said " After seeeing yours, at least I now know what sort of car you desire"
Yep, exactly, as what you described as immaculate, as in the one I travelled 100 miles to see but was a load of shite!!!
What really disappoints me is that the salesman (Roy) and Chris mislead me into thinking this car was immaculate when in fact it was a lump of old tatt for the year. I expected more honest treatment from an experienced Sales Manager who regularly posts on here acting as being an honest bona-fide dealer.
I would have much rather'd being told "Ermm, sorry, it's tatty, save your 2 hours time, 100 miles and £10 in diesel in coming here"
If you read this Chris, don't bother trying to source me a better Alhambra, as I will never ever go near your dealership again on principal.
Because of the Seatcupra.net connection, I trusted you Chris, but I'm sad to say, that my belief that "all car dealers are car dealers" has now been re-affirmed.
In my book, even regarding business matters, the people I expect 100% truth, openess and honesty from are my family, my friends and fellow members of clubs and associations. IMO Seatcupra.net falls into this group.
I am now very, very, very dissappointed with human nature,
Brian
PS - If anyone doubts my reasoning and is near to MK, go and see the pile of shite that was described to me as being immaculate, it will be there on their front for a day or two.
IMO a gesture of "Put £10 of diesel into your car on the firm's account" may have softened the blow to me for the 100 mile wasted journey, but no such offer was made.
rally-man
04-12-2002, 08:24
Can't defend myself there Brian,I didn't get the message that you where coming up to us until I got out of a meeting and by that time you were 5 minutes away (which was the time I phoned you to say the car was sold)
The car has not had a valet as yet I accept that and,in comparison to your car,is not in as good a condition.
I accept that you want to have a rant at me on this forum and that's exactly why this forum exists.I do have to wonder though why you didn't say anything to me about fuel etc before you left here.
I have three sales people here at Milton Keynes and if I held a car off sale every time one of my staff told me that someone was driving over to look at it all of my stock would be sat out the back of the dealership.
Sorry you feel that way Brian ,I did apologise to you yesterday unreservedly.If you don't want me to find another car for you then that's fine,I don't want to get into a slagging match over it.
So what is the trade description for a car that has no swirls, no kerbing, no missing bits? (serious question). I think the dirt can be (mostly) ignored because nobody is going to keep a car clean once they have got a price off a dealer.
Dormouse
04-12-2002, 17:57
Flipping heck guys, what's the point of going full guns at each other for?
as Chris say's there's no point having a slanging match about this, but let's just get a few things sorted.
1. MK are a fine dealership (I personally have not been there, but I know plenty of people that have and those people are pretty much the salt of the earth and i trust em (I also value your opinion highly too Brian BTW)
2. Does seem like a dealer thing to say the vehicles in good condition and that fact it was, shall we say' a bit rough round the collar was a little dishonest. OK dealers have to sell cars, but they also rely on the word of mouth of satisfied and happy customers / fans of the brand. Getting a defo on selling the car is one thing (and business common sense too), but getting someone to drive 50 miles to and from under effective false marketing is another.
Whilst it is not for me to try to resolve such gripes I do think there are such things as second chances. Perhaps MK can make a serious effort to source a good condition bammer at a price acceptable to both parties?
Dor.
To add to Dors. words of wisdom. And thanks for helping to be objectional, cause ive had a bad week and i think my reaction would of frayed some tempers today, (been biting my tongue so to speak) im not my usual self for obvious reasons, still a little stressed out after Mondays events. :sick:
Lee or myself dont't like the site being used as a place for slanging matches, or attacks on business's (especially when they havn't had the chance to resolve or answer an attack personally).
If all else fails in your private conversations, then feel free to tell people of your experiences, but lets not go wading into companies, until they've had reasonable chances to explain, what can be commonly an inocent mistake, usually due to a lack of communication.
That isn't what this is for.
Only if all normal routes of complaint fail should a public grievence of that nature be posted, for something which in my eyes is just a break down in communication, doesn't deserve such a hostile reaction.
Humans make mistakes, ive been a direct recipient of that fact this week. But before biting peoples heads off, take the time to be candid and converse your disagreements, dont just lay into them on here.
Remember also, views in here are not the views of the Cupra.net staff, we like to remain objective if at all possible, and as i say whats posted in here is not our policy, its just peoples points of view, and the majority shouldn't be held to account for what a minority see as an injustice towards them.
Ive personally not used MK SEAT, but the people i know who have used them, have found them to be a top unit, doing a good job, ive no reason to argue with them, or for that matter Brians point of view.
But i'd rather people sort out issues privately first, if all else fails, tell people by all means, but give a place chance to defend itself.
Chris,
OK, without getting into a slanging match, would you agree that the car was mis-described to me?
I was assured that it was in immaculate/superb/A1 condition.
Even if the car was thoroughly valeted and prepared for retail sale, it would have only masked the prior poor condition of the car.
As I posted, this is not the sort of car to push into a fellow car club enthusiast who takes pride in their cars, it is one to push into a mug. I am not a mug and do not expect to be taken for one.
In my post, I accepted that the car already being sold was not of your knowledge at the time I set out, it was the overall poor condition of the car that prompted my post.
As for Mark's suggestion of discussing these things off-line, I have to disagree. If my post saves a fellow member from the bad-day I have had then I feel that I have every right to post my experiences on here.
There's no secrecy involved, Chris can defend himself on here out in the open.
:cheers:
I've no experience of MK Seat, but I do sympathise with Brian, having had a similar experience. We did a 90 miles round trip to Newcastle to view a Clio at Benfields Renault. Despite there being less than an hour between phoning to arrange a test drive, and our actual arrival, the car was sold (by the same salesman...).
Highly annoying. :mad:
We also had a trip closer to home to view the top spec Clio (whatever that was/is), only to find the car was 2.5 years old, had been sat in a field and was an old (old) model. None of this was mentioned on the phone.
Dealers could help themselves as well as us, by being honest. We bought a car elsewhere.
Dormouse
05-12-2002, 12:34
Brian has had what he feels is a raw deal and may or may not choose to give his custom to the dealership he has grievances against and has also put his views forward for others to consider.
Chris in his first post has applogised.
Ok, time to kill this thread?
dor.
reopened, but if it turns into a free for all it will be deleted for good, fair enough.
And im still waiting for Brians side of the story.
The tosser has spoken.
Dormouse
14-12-2002, 00:03
Nothing to say from the hole in the wall.
Dor.
And im still waiting for Brians side of the story.
Mark (Z),
Mark, as you are asking, I'm curious to what else you want to know from your saying that you are "Still waiting for my side of the story"......?
I feel certain that "My side of the story" is quite comprehensivly covered in the first and sixth posts in this thread and I am not prepared to go over old ground.
However, I am quite prepared to put this whole matter to bed once and for all and let sleeping dogs lie. I have nothing else to say or post on the matter, for my part, it has all been said.
:cheers:
email me, im not contnually dragging this thread back to the surface for you.
Ive only been given one side of the story, in a calm collected way, by one person, and they contacted me personally, and all ive had to read about this is what you put in anger in here.
Im just concerned someone is turning it into a witch hunt.
Something that is non constructive for the site, or its future.
And if thats the case, then why do i bother working on it, if people would rather just bring it down.
Apologies for upsetting you Brian, but i am trying to be fair, and of course i do have the sites interests at heart, but that doesn't mean i agree with what happened to you, i just think it could of been put in a more constructive way, and wouldn't of caused such a shit storm.
And i never censored it, because it would of been deleted wouldn't it?
We just closed an unconstructive thread, to stop exactly what happened everywhere else.
Just imagine the reply and action you'd of got from elsewhere on the net?
Originally posted by Brian27
However, I am quite prepared to put this whole matter to bed once and for all and let sleeping dogs lie...
:cheers:
This, to quote what I have just posted, to me does not sound like a witch hunt or talk in anger, quite the opposite. It was a completely passive post.
TBH Z, it seems to me that you have the problem now.
:cheers:
Well thanks for answering my arguement in such a clear and concise way Brian
I rest my case. :rolleyes:
Mark (please don't take any of this the wrong way).
We're all aware you've had a band time recently. From the content and tone of your posts, you don't seem very happy, particularly regarding the work you do toward running the site. If you feel that it's not appreciated by the membership, then you're mistaken, I'm sure.
However, Brian's observation is not unique: you have the problem now
I've had several emails today, where members express their unease at the events of the last 36 hours or so. In particular, the reading of Private Messages has not gone down well. One relatively recent, but very active and respected member, has said he probably won't leave, but will certainly post less. The respect he had for the site has fallen. Mine too I'm afraid.
Rather than having tirades against me (and others) and asking, why I didn't get involved more; why not try to encourage more members to get actively involved?
I told Lee I would do anything I could to help. I designed as and when asked, and became a Moderator. Apart from Martyn asking for (non Cupranet) web site design ideas, I heard nothing more. Like many Clubs (and Cupranet is a Club in reality), there can be cliques, and to some of us, there does seem to be an Us and Them mentality appearing.
Maybe Lee needs to sit down and think where he wants the site to go? It's grown quickly, has decent membership and no doubt has certain financial implications that maybe weren't envisaged at the outset. I'm not party to any of that, but something that once was a hobby, I guess no longer is, in terms of time and responsibilities.
Now I'm aware that many are unwilling to stick there heads into the line of fire, and I respect that. However, I may be wrong, but if the current ill feeling isn't sorted out, then it may just fester and grow, and whilst it may not destroy the site, it certainly won't be to its benefit.
Assuming you don't already have it, I'll PM you my phone number should you wish to talk personally. I won't be available tomorrow night, as I'll be out at with the students.
Take care
Mike
Dormouse
15-12-2002, 22:55
As I have mentioned before and Mike eluded to in his post, the situation should be put to bed from the forums point of veiw to stop bad feeling festering and being bad for the site as a hole.
I for one am getting a bit cheesed off (excuse the pun!) like Mark.
This will be my last post on the matter (everyone goes phew!) cos I think further forum talk on it will really not be constructive.
Cheers :D
Dor.
Mark has replied to my PM saying he doesn't want my phone number and doesn't wish to discuss anything with me. I was only trying to help.
Night
Well thanks for that mike, i'll answer these questions as well as im able.
Yes to say the least the last month hasn't been my best, and yes quite probably guilty of being less than objective in my observations, but then i wasn't really helped in that.
Whatever you think about the PM service, its part of Vbulletein, and its there as security, for instance if someone was abusing the system , abusing another person, how could we act on it?
I dont read PM's as a matter of course, i have more tact than that, but probably after seeing red, i wasn't impressed with your opinion of me. But in hindsight, that was probably quite wrong, but as i say i didnt appreciate the sentiment within either.
I rarely use it anyway, if i have something to say, i'll do it on the forum as you've seen, or via email.
Tirades i think is a little strong, its reactionary to what i received.
As for people wanting to be involved, nearly everytime we do a group email, or i post a piece of news, of a feature, i post it in here, to tell people where to find it on the website.
I nearly always say they have every opportunity to be involved, i would appreciate input, i actively promote it and welcome it.
IN fact recently a member has helped enormously, and his recent help will be clear for all to see in the coming days.
Maybe there is a them and us mentality, but their usually is in most groups, the doers can get upset when they feel their work is going to waste, when others use it to bring bad sentiment on to it, and the people in between usually dont know whats happening either way.
I don't feel we hide anything from anyone, if you think we do, feel free to ask me.
As for a club, maybe people see it as one, but it isnt a club, you dont have to pay subs towards it, in anyway, and yes your correct it probably did start as a hobby, and has grown a lot faster than anyone expected, and to be very honest were still learning as we go along too.
But a club it isn't, and in my eyes never will be, i tried helping with a club, it ended up failing, cause you dont have the funds, and it always ends up with one or two people doing all the work.
Were all just very happy to have a group, that can enjoy talking about their cars, giving advice to one another, and anyone else that seeks it, and of course being able to get to exibit at shows, and run our Track Days, that gives us the ability to enjoy our cars more than we ever could on the open roads.
I agree on the fester and grow statement, id say your right, and over the last day, as ive calmed and collected myself on the situation, i feel it does no one any good, and in a way that was my original sentiment to start with, the post above was answered, maybe not Brians liking, but it was answered, it was obvious to me that neither was likely to change their mind on the subject, so why continue the thread?
Yes it was closed, but never deleted, it was clearly available for anyone to read, and it still wont be deleted in the future.
But all i ask is why is it constructive or healthy to carry it on?
You know would it be better to not have a dealer section now? So we dont have the facility to praise or comment on good or bad service.
The way i see it, is if it can cause this much trouble do we really need it?
Anyway, ive said my piece, im quite happy now to leave it be for all concerned, and i dont hold grudges towards anyone.
Your free to comment, but all i ask is always be sensible and constructive in criticism, I know ive probably fallen down flat on my face over it too, but i do believe its the best policy when making any argument.
Sorry for those upset by it, and thanks to those that supported me too.
Nice one guys.
Can we please draw a line under this one now?
Can we please draw a line under this one now?
Certainly
:cheers: