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View Full Version : Worrying discoveries about Tracker and RAC Trackstar


psrob
06-12-2002, 01:45
I was looking to upgrade the security system on my Leon Cupra R when I get it so I have done quite a lot of research on tracking devices.

What I have discovered has put me off, especially when you consider the costs as they are both not as secure as they seem. I'll tell you why:-

The Tracker is the oldest system and uses a radio transmitter which is supposed to be 'homed' in and located by the police. Getting your car back relies entirely on the police locating it.
Firstly only a few police cars have the locating equipment ( ie. only 2 or 3 per force and maybe a helicopter). A family member who is in the police has told me the equipment is very hard to use, you have to be trained and hardly anyone knows how to use it. Also your car being stolen might be the most important thing to you, but don't be fooled, to the police it is'nt. Depending on how busy they are, whether the car with tracking equipment is availiable or being used for other normal traffic patrols, or whether they have the manpower are all factors which determine whether they will make the effort. Tracker makes you think they will just drop everything and start frantically hunting your car. The reality is they rarely will, especially at a weekend.
Also , the first thing a thief will do as soon as he can is disconnect the battery. This means a countdown of just 48 hours has begun till your battery backup runs out and your tracker is useless. By the time the police start a concerted effort to look for your car it might be too late.


Next, RAC Trackstar.(and all GPS and GSM Tracking systems)

This is the one for me I thought. Until I saw a major flaw which totally changed my mind. Reading the Scoobyworld forums I read a couple of threads by people who had RAC Trackstar but their car still disappeared because it 'failed to activate'. Not good. So I researched exactly how they work and how this could happen.
Being a telecom engineer it was easy to understand but the flaw is so gaping wide open I couldn't believe it.
They use GPS which is usindg military satellite to position and locate very accurately the car. Great! But GPS needs 'clear sky'. Put the stolen car in a metal container ( a favoured method) or in a thick concrete building and it simply disappears! The satellite loses touch.

But worse is still to come. If there is a good GPS signal and the system detects the car is stolen, it then contacts the tracking control centre via GSM. GSM is basically the mobile phone network. It then gives the control centre its location.
As you know with your mobile, you can't always get a signal. This can happen as your trackstar device happens to contact the centre.
Worst of all though, GSM can easily be blocked or'jammed' with the right equipment which means there is no way your device can communicate with the centre. So your tracker is useless.
Jammers are becoming more common among professional car thieves via the black market and it is an easy way of ovetrcoming a GSM/GPS tracking system. They are illegal in the UK but so are guns and plenty of people still have them. One UK firm actually makes them for export,
see :
http://www.spy-equipment.co.uk/Jammers/jammers.html

I even e-mailed RAC Trackstar because I couldn't believe a system I was nearly going to buy which was that expensive can be overcome so easily and this was their reply :

Hello Mr Robinson
Thank you for your email, please find below the answers that you wanted
clarified.
1. Can the GSM signal be jammed by GSM Jammers?
The signal can be jammed by GSM Jammers if they have the correct equipment.
2. Can the GSM signal be sometimes 'lost' as with mobiles in a poor
receptuion area or in a concrete building etc?
The signal of the tracking unit can sometimes become weaker if the vehicle
is stored in a concrete building or gets put into a steel container. We
will know up to 20 seconds before the signal goes weak that it has been
moved to a poor reception area

That's no good for a system that costs£600 installation plus £120 a year!!!!!


So, you pays your money you takes your choice, but i don't think I'll be bothering with either. I think its wrong that they both portray such total peace of mind and solid security when they are both obviously not.

Paul

Cuprasport2000
06-12-2002, 08:00
Good bit of research there mate. Sad to see, like you say, that both companies portray absolute succes when that is not the case. Seems like every gimmick the security companies come up with, the theives are one step behind. :( Back to the friggin huge chain through the steering wheel then...

Off the topic though, whats with the 'de-modded' bit at the bottom of your post?

dangel
06-12-2002, 10:23
...but the main reason most fit these things is because of insurance requirements or discounts. Just a point :(

M1KETDi
06-12-2002, 10:56
mate- get clifford black jax. My dad had his BMW robbed from our driveway last year- the scum bags hooked the keys from our letter box and made off with the car- never seen or heard again that car to this day. So that made him buy Cliffords Black Jax to his new Jag. Quality piece of kit....each time the car is started (or any car door is opened while engine on) you tap in a code on the small keypad (out of sight but in a easy to reach place) once the code is keyed in you see a flash on the clifford LED to confirm your code was correct. If you dont punch in the code or put the wrong code in, the car will only run for 20 or 30 seconds before the car shuts itself down safelty with an alarm blarring off and all lights flashing. The car will only re-start once the correct code has been punched back in. Its a top piece of kit that really works!! Its caught even my dad out a few times!!

Jonno
06-12-2002, 20:33
My Peugeot 306 (1996 vintage) had a keypad immoboliser as standard so if any one stole the keys they still couldn't start it.

Why did Peugeot abandon it?

It was the deciding factor in me buying the car.

Jonno

mark sheerin
06-12-2002, 20:58
Spend a fiver on a switch and some wire.

under your dashboard somewhere put this switch in the ignition key to starter solenoid circuit.

Then any attemts to start the car will be thwarted despite an ingenious thiefs attempt to work round the security and immobilisers.

sometimes old tech can work aswell.

Did this to my wifes Fiat Uno years ago because it was parked unnatended down a lane in the village at the time.

Had the wheels nicked once:( ...but not the car:)

psrob
06-12-2002, 21:29
Yep, actually thinking of getting a Clifford concept 600 with blackjack. Seems a great alarm and I think the only way someone could get away with your car is to lift your car onto a low loader (which would have the alarm blaring away). If they got away with this they would then have to figure out how to overcome the immoblilisers (including the remote hidden fuel immobiliser which has no wires connected to it) which would take a great deal of time to do which would hopefully put them off in the beginning.
They will know it is a Clifford cause it tells you on the dash. Most alarm companies don't reveal the identity of themselves, thinking it will aid the theif, but Clifford has the confidence to to this because they know it will make no difference and so use it as a warning to the thief.
Thanks Mike, glad to hear exactly how the blackjax system works though as I did wonder how and I could'nt find any info. Clifford site just tells you about it.
I was also put off tracking devices because I want to prevent a theft, not get it nicked and then get it try and get it back if I am lucky!

Forgot to say that according to car theft statistics, the use of illegal GSM jammers is on the increase, so the future for GPS/GSM tracking is not good, or not for the car owner with one anyway, unless they start to adopt a new system.
Such an easy way to disable such an expensive alarm system!
It amazes me that the insurance companies don't seem to be aware of this yet and also just how much of a chance you have really got of getting your car back through the Police with Tracker.


To cuprasport 2000!

De-modded means I have just taken off my Superchip, K&N Panel air filter, Forge dump valve, ABD Racing turbo intake pipe and ABD Racing lower intercooler pipe so I can part-ex it with my dealer for my Cupra R! Dealer offered me below valuation with mods!!

Paul :)

psrob
07-12-2002, 01:24
Originally posted by mark sheerin
Spend a fiver on a switch and some wire.

under your dashboard somewhere put this switch in the ignition key to starter solenoid circuit.

Then any attemts to start the car will be thwarted despite an ingenious thiefs attempt to work round the security and immobilisers.

sometimes old tech can work aswell.

Did this to my wifes Fiat Uno years ago because it was parked unnatended down a lane in the village at the time.

Had the wheels nicked once:( ...but not the car:)


I remember I use to open up the distributor and take out the rotor arm in my old capri 2.0S sometimes many years ago to stop it getting nicked! Don't know why I bothered though it was such a bag of shit!
Fond memories! Ahhh!

Paul

psrob
07-12-2002, 01:38
Originally posted by dangel
...but the main reason most fit these things is because of insurance requirements or discounts. Just a point :(


But why should you have to, especially paying out all that money, when they both have such real world security/ tracking flaws?

Paul

Syphon
07-12-2002, 01:39
I have said it before and I will say it again. :)

One of the most effective security products short of a tracker or alarm system is this little baby:

www.disklokuk.co.uk

It is the best of its kind on the market and is Thatcham approved.

Car thieves have said that if they see a car with one of these on they will walk away and try an easier target. This was from a police officer who had spoken to a lot of them. Not some promotional statement from Disklok.

Another great (but a lot more expensive) product is the Pentagon Supaglass security film. Makes your windows smash proof. I've got it fitted to mine. http://pentagonglasstech.com/

Watch the videos on the site. You will be very impressed.

Cheers,

Scott

psrob
07-12-2002, 01:56
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Syphon
[B]I have said it before and I will say it again. :)

One of the most effective security products short of a tracker or alarm system is this little baby:

www.disklokuk.co.uk

It is the best of its kind on the market and is Thatcham approved.

Car thieves have said that if they see a car with one of these on they will walk away and try an easier target. This was from a police officer who had spoken to a lot of them. Not some promotional statement from Disklok.


Got one Scott! I must admit I only use it when I have to ie. parking in a high risk area, in addition to my current cat 1 alarm, but they aren't half a ballache to put on and especially off!! My key always seems to stick in the lock barrel and it takes some messing to get it out! Still, I'll have to just get use to it. Rattles in your car as well!
Your right though, they are good. I think autoexpress security test took 15 mins to get one off with a great deal of noise and they needed a particular type of tool to do it.

Paul :cheers:

psrob
07-12-2002, 11:52
Here's a copy of another article for a South African news agency where the use of jammers for overcoming tracking devices for car jackings are quite common.

Not many articles in UK and US.
I wonder why.......???????





Original Subject Cell Jamming 'Could Aid Hijackers'
Original Date 2002-09-10 13:02:15
Original Sender "AllAfrica.com" <all_africa@tides2000.org>


Author: Phillip De Wet, Itweb Telecoms Editor Credit: ITWeb (Johannesburg) Dateline: Johannesburg

Vodacom, MTN and Cell C yesterday told the Independent Communications Authority of SA (ICASA) that jamming cellphones in public places was a bad idea because it would irritate users and cost them money.

It fell to a company that wants to sell the devices to present an argument more likely get public attention. "If this device is in the hands of a hijacker it could be used to disable the GSM tracking system of a car," said Neil van Heerden, a representative of George Fivaz and Associates. "It is true, we don't deny it."

Fivaz and Associates, a security firm founded by the former head of the SA Police Service, and its partner, Cellblock SA, were trying to convince ICASA to legalise jamming.

The Cellblock team said there were many potentially negative and criminal uses for the technology that blocks mobile phone signals - especially if the device is mobile. Preventing vehicle tracking companies from recovering a stolen vehicle is just one scenario. That is why it is in favour of tight control.

"If we don't have strict regulations it will be really disastrous for the community," Van Heerden told ICASA.

Others couldn't agree more and expressed grave reservations about the potential misuse of blocking.

"The benefits that could be accrued would be small in comparison with the detriment," says Bruce Richards of fleet management company DigiCore, which uses cellphone frequencies to track cars and trucks, and recover them if stolen. "Any perceived benefit is out of balance with the risk of hijacking and the danger to people." He has no faith in the ability of regulations to prevent the criminal use of blockers.



Paul

mph
23-01-2003, 12:34
Originally posted by Syphon
Another great (but a lot more expensive) product is the Pentagon Supaglass security film. Makes your windows smash proof. I've got it fitted to mine. http://pentagonglasstech.com/


There are no prices on the site as far as I can see... how much did it cost to do your Leon?

Syphon
23-01-2003, 13:45
Originally posted by mph
There are no prices on the site as far as I can see... how much did it cost to do your Leon?

It's not cheap. But then you get what you pay for and these guys are probably the best in the business.

I think it was £599 plus VAT for the security tints. Their prices are by car model so probably best if you give them a ring to check.

Scott