View Full Version : Interesting to see that......
....a thread criticising a Seatcupra.net preferred dealer gets closed.
Hmmmm, not good for a site's credibility, as only the truth was told.
Anyway, the said dealership's member is now sulking on SE.
Let's hope those on SE read my previous, now closed, thread.
:sick:
Dormouse
08-12-2002, 23:47
Brian, for god's sake don't take it to heart.
You came out all guns blazing and that didn't look good on yourself.
It really suprised me the way you posted it, cos I was always under the impresion you'de want to solve the situation ammicably and in a professional manner.
If you read my post you'll notice that I was trying to take both sides and see eveyones vewis were catered for.
As a long standing memeber of this forum i'm sure your probably one of the most aware that SEAT websites should cultivate releationships with dealers and vice versa. Clearly you had a bad experience that was genuinly an annoyance to you (cos yes, the vehicle was not all it had been promised) but don't start bouncing between sites because you feel you have been hard done by.
I asked for the thread to be closed because nothing further was going to come of it. OK, I was trying to be an impartial judge of the matter.
You'll notice that situations here (and I hope they will in the future) are always talked about and not ahemmm....'paul daniels'd' into the ether.
Your veiws are valued Brian. Never forget that.
Dor.
mark sheerin
09-12-2002, 00:35
...Never post in anger....
....you f£$cking got that you bunch of to$%rs ...you make me puke..I'm gonna smash your f£$%ckin face off you moron.....calling me a what you piece of s£$^e ...ere' ave this..
GGGRRRRRRRRRRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
or you may regret it ;)
cordobabrendy
09-12-2002, 00:53
count to ten , youll feel much better after ............one , two, ten ... nope im still gonna strangle to b£$%ards!!
have to say tho, i very very rarely ever lose my rag, havnt done in at least 20 years, but back when i was six, christ!! i was a mean moody wee f~~ker!!
Since it's been closed as opposed to deleted, I can't see any issue.
The thread is still there, so people remain able to read your points.
Poor service is often "exposed" in this forum - never been a problem.
Your points are valid. You do however have "a bit of a go" at Chris personally.
Dormouse
09-12-2002, 16:17
I think mr sheerin has been on the antifreeze again...need a brown paper bag m8?
dor.
Originally posted by Brian27
Anyway, the said dealership's member is now sulking on SE.
Let's hope those on SE read my previous, now closed, thread.
:sick:
I really didn't want to post, but I don't like things that aren't true, & I've searched the whole forum on SE for every post rally-man (Chris) has posted (if this is who yur referring to) ...and I can't see anywhere he has been *sulking*. Is there another "said dealerships's member" ??? Or have I just overlooked something.
:confused:
I dont mind constructive critisism, at all. And you views are welcomed, but i was pretty took a back by the attack not on a dealer but an employee of the said dealer.
Were here trying to get professional relationships, with dealers, so they can help us to help you.
Chris and MK SEAT have been very helpful to us all these past few months, and i was saddened to say the least to read such a hateful post.
As i say critisism where its due, and im sure Chris and MK SEAT can take critisism when they've made a mistake or, upset someone.
But to be honest i read that post, and i came to conclusion that they had been judged, and executed without a real oppotunity to respond.
And im also saddened you feel cause they are friends of the site, we dont want you talk ill of them, well as ive said don't mind a fair arguement, and Brian maybe you did feel the service you received was not what you expected, but to me that read a little one sided.
But i tend to settle my grievences personally before using the forums, and if i do feel the need to air my grievance i wouldn't of done it like that.
As for Chris wanting to use SE, well thats his choice, we all have choices, thats what makes us free, and gives us the right to choose.
To be honest i think your blowing this all way out of proportion, you've had your say, and the thread was closed, but i might add not deleted.
If your unhappy with MK SEAT, fine, dont use them, use the dealer you've always been happy with, thats your choice to make, but dont start a vendetta against them, cause if you do want to continue doing this, then whats the point of having this forum?
Im pretty sick of it, and if you think its big and clever, then carry on by all means, just dont be suprised if this forum isn't around because of it.
We need the support of people like you, and we also need dealers and SEAT to help us continue to run a fun and informative site.
Like i've said got nothing against critisism, but rather than attacking somoene, why not just plainly and simply state without ANGER, state your grievance and then leave it at that.
I dont agree with attacking peoples professionalism regardless of your view of it, its quite unfair.
Thats my tuppence on the matter.
rally-man
10-12-2002, 15:34
Apologies for any upset that this may cause 'proper' users of this site but I'm not going to let one individual keep slagging me off the way that he has been.
I apologised for letting Brian down last week but obviously that's not enough for him.
I'm not getting in to a slagging match over it so I have one message.....
I don't sulk Brian,my maturity won't allow it.Second,I don't rise to petty remarks said at distance and third,whichever websites I log on to or register to are none of your business.It's what's known as exercising my right to freedom.
If you have a problem with me Brian,please,as well as posting on here,be prepared to pick up the phone and justify it to me.
Chris, well said mate.
It's sadly not the first time Brian has upset people with his "distant" comments, so don't let him put you off being an active forum member on either sites ;)
Let that be the end of it :cheers:
Don't mean to cause offence but Smithy what's the point in insinuating goings on when it is not clear what they are.
Brian's not upset me and I think there's little point in going over old ground.
I'm not taking sides, I don't want to offend and I realise it hurts when we are criticised but why is it Brian seems to be being castigated here when Martyn's thread is still going on in this same forum?
Neither concern me at all but it's just an observation from an SC viewer.
EDC, just to respond.
There has been further goings on subjecting this thread, behind the scenes if you like (nothing underhand i might add), that have prompted the post by Zboyd "Message to Everyone"
Just to clarify, there is nothing to worry about, martyns thread is indeed still active due to its factual content on car related issues that martyn is experienceing currently. Car issues alone.
If you have further queries or problems please feel free to contact myself or one of the other site moderators.
:cheers:
Originally posted by Saul
EDC, just to respond.
There has been further goings on subjecting this thread, behind the scenes if you like (nothing underhand i might add), that have prompted the post by Zboyd "Message to Everyone"
Just to clarify, there is nothing to worry about, martyns thread is indeed still active due to its factual content on car related issues that martyn is experienceing currently. Car issues alone.
If you have further queries or problems please feel free to contact myself or one of the other site moderators.
:cheers:
You see, I've probably answered my own query, but it seems sometimes that the threads only show half the stuff that happens and can sometimes give a very slanted view on a topic.
Sometimes things are carried on via PM or email and then the thread is revisited and a whole 'chunk' goes missing. Nobody's fault at all.
TBH I don't know the half of what happened when Brian went to MK nor with Martyn's dealings with Bournmouth so I'm in no convincing position to argue.
Dormouse
10-12-2002, 17:34
Whilst i don't want to make insinuations at any dealer i'd like to add the following
I second Sauls point, that Martyns thread has been car related only. Martyn has had constant ongoing 'problems' with under warrenty service from the dealer in question and whilst I believe from chatting to him persoanlly and conversing on the forum chat he is very annoyed, he has never 'blown his top'
Martyn has had plenty of (6 months at least) grief from said dealer, but until now posted nothing, in order to give the service a chance to improve.
I'd be pretty miffed too with that kind of service.
Dor.
Cuprasport2000
10-12-2002, 18:06
Originally posted by Dormouse
I'd be pretty miffed too with that kind of service.
Dor.
Isnt that the point of having the 'Dealers - have your say' section? Wasnt that what Brian was doing?
:confused:
Dormouse
10-12-2002, 18:24
Isnt that the point of having the 'Dealers - have your say' section? Wasnt that what Brian was doing?
Yes, in what I PERSONALLY would regard as an inapropriate way.
If I have a problem with my dealer, I phone em up or go and see em). i'll note they also ALWAYS ask me if i'm happy with the car still.
What I don't do is have a rant at them on a public forum. Without first trying to see their side of the point.
Believe me i'm not shy of putting critisism about dealers up. I've done it before (in a polite way) and that critisism has been acted on and acted on well.
Dor.
Lucky_32
10-12-2002, 20:28
It took 4 months plus to get my Seat fixed after a minor accident due to parts supply problems and general faffing about tracking stuff down - but I've never felt the need to have ago at the repairer in a specific thread - I may have grumbled about stuff but when you see them getting as frustrated as you are and get comments like - we had the car longer than you have, and we can't believe it's going ... - you have to smile.
Think of these three things
1. What I don't like ....bad points
2. What I do like .... good points
3. What I'd like .... the way forward
Some items may be within a specific individuals control, others not - if you apply this to the above three it does help
Hope this post isn't too pedantic.
If it is, sorry it's not mean't to be :hammer:
I'm bewildered.... :confused:
If a Sales Manager X that I spoke to personally on the phone has seriously mis-described a car to me and I decide to post about it on here, does this mean that I have to refer to him as Mr SEAT MK? Or do I have to say that it was the maybe early morning cleaner that had descibed the car to me?
All I posted was the truth and named names, it now seems that this is a no-no.
There has been accusations that X could not defend himself on here. Well, with my original thread closed so efficiently, this does make it a tad hard for him to do so.
In my original post, I commended X on his generous part-exchange allowance and accepted that he was not aware that the car was already sold. All fair comments in X's favour, I could not be fairer.
Being as this topic has become so high profile, I will now add some details that I have not disclosed before but that I have told to a few members privately. X suggested to me at the time that another salesman may have learnt that I was on my way to SEAT MK (I spoke to a receptionist and said that I was on my way and please don't sell it!) and that the said other salesman may have telephoned a client that had viewed the car over the previous week-end to say "Act now, quick, there's a guy on his way to buy the car".
When this was said to me, basically, I lost my temper and asked to "confront" the the salesman. At which point X swung the story round and said that the other client was phoned prior to my departure to SEAT MK and that the said salesman was off the premises. Hmmmmm!
So, with the recent accusations of my personally critising someone on here, I ask...
i/ If threads are prematurely closed, then how do the so accused have a chance to reply and defend themselves?
ii/ If we cannot refer to people that we have dealt with personally by name, how do we address them?
eg/ If Alan Shearer's leg is broken by Kluivert, is it to be said that Barcelona FC broke it? I think not.
I have only posted the truth on here, if that offends people, then so be it.
:cheers:
If you choose not to talk to us, thats your perogative, but i see it from the point of view that ive seen, is that it damages the sites credibility, when you attack people in that way, whether your arguement is valid or not, their are more efficient ways to criticise.
You edited your post, unfortunatly the original ANGRY rant is what caused more offence to people, and whatever you think of MK SEAT and our relationship with them, im more concerned other dealers who may be showing interest in joining us, reading stuff like thta and thinking, bloody hell if i forget to do something right i'll be barbecued, better stick to what i know and not be involved with this internet thingy.
And there seems to me to be more to this than just, whats been said, and as a result, how can it be constructive for the site, or for anyone.
Martyn has had issues with his car for months, and only recently in a constructive manner has he decided to make his opinion public on the forum, from my point of view, this is the way to get contructive views across, and even though hes been unhappy he didnt blow a fuse.
Which in my opinion is what you did.
And they did respond, maybe not to your liking, but then that thread just becomes a tit for tat thread, with each one trying to score hits of the other.
But as i've said in my thread yesterday, if you feel thats warranted behaviour, carry on, but don't be surprised if the people who work hard on this site, decide what the hell am i bothering for.
Hi all
Echoing EDC's post - Brian's comments haven't offended or upset me. I feel he's perfectly entitled to relate to us all, his wasted journey to see an already sold (and incorrectly described) vehicle. Having had similar things happen to me, I fully understand how he feels.
I knew nothing of Martyn's problems with Seat Bournemouth until today, and wonder as others have done, why the thread criticising Seat MK was closed, and the former stays open. Having read both, I can see little difference, apart from different problems with different dealerships, between different Forum members... Both Brian and Martyn are sounding off about the problems they had/are having, and I feel are welcome to do so.
I'm afraid I don't see where all the hard work by you Mark (and others) comes into this, except as you imply, you're worried about your "relationship" with them , and other potential "sponsors". We all (I'm sure), appreciate most things that you (and the others) do. I've made my position clear on this often enough. Had I not enjoyed my time in here, I certainly wouldn't have put up with the unmitigated crap that's been aimed in my direction over the months.
However, I'm not naive enough to believe that CupraNet runs on fresh air, but when it has to worry about its benefactors (current or future), it no longer functions as an independent Seat site. At that time, my respect for it, and all associated with it will, will evaporate.
If members aren't able to comment on the poor (or good) service they've received from dealerships, then there'll be a pretty big problem. Please don't play into the hands of those who criticised the Site in the past, saying it was compromising itself, by courting corporate sponsorship. Some said that would lead to a change in site values, and I hoped it would never happen. My fingers are still crossed...
Regards to all.
Frankly that was the reaction i was expecting, and one of the reasons, why i wonder why i bother trying to keep peace.
As i've stated its very easy to alter your posts after the event, you didn't read the orignal.
Its not the criticism im so insensed by, its the way in which its directed, and the fact its not just a comment, its an attack on a business.
Maybe im seeing it from a one sided perspective, but other sites out there can go down this route and end up in litigation, and then all companies names have to be censored, and its not the fact this is a present relationship, its future relationships with companies, or all types.
As ive said many times this week.
CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM, make your point and leave it at that.
If Brian is unhappy with MK SEAT, fair enough, hes made his view apparent, and he doesn't use them anymore, and the post is in the dealer section, but i wont have the site turned into a tit for tat site, where the threads start to read like a tennis game, scoring points of one another in an arguement that has no winners.
Quite frankly ive had my fill of it, and if thats your take on it, and your choice Mike, feel free to depart, im not forcing you and im not going to fall over myself to keep you either.
Im more annoyed, that as a member of our moderating team, Brian should of remained impatial, his recent mood is reminincent of past happenings on this site, which caused Brian himself enough grief, i've been surprised by it to say the least.
This is nothing noble and quite frankly a selfish attitude.
The full facts are not in the open, and probably never will be, in my opinion this is why i feel it is warranted to close the thread, if Biran has such a big problem with MK SEAT or their dealers, take it up with them in person, dont involve the site in it.
And as for the not affecting the hard work, yes it does Mike, cause it rubbishes the sites credibility, and just turns it into just another car forum that spirals out of control, until no one uses it and it benefits no one.
Were working to build the site up, all the time, we've only been around for a little over a year, but in that time, whats been achieved is superb, in order to take it forward will require people to contribute in a contructive manner, and stop thinking about their own personal gripes, which quite frankly should of been sorted over the phone in a civil manner, and not involving us.
But as i've said in earlier posts, think what you like, just as i have.
Can I just add in my defense that I only posted my thread up about my dealings with Bournemouth SEAT as a last resort which is why a lot of you guys had no idea about the problems.
The issues I've had have been going on for months, I've spoken to the guys at B'mth SEAT god knows how many times about my issues, I've also spoken to SEAT UK a couple of times but no had any luck either way.
I don't expect to be treated the way I was, maybe because I'm young I don’t matter, maybe I don’t spend enough money with them? Who knows?
As for "worrying about its benefactors", I think not, I personally think its really nice to have people like APR, MK SEAT and United Motors on the site because they contribute, not financially but with a wealth of knowledge which helps the site stay the worlds number 1 source for SEAT info.
As for independence, the site is, and always will be independent. Do you really think I could post my thread if it wasn’t?
So far the site has been maintained no matter what the cost and I’m sure lee can vouch for that. The reason? See above!
Brian's thread, hmm, what's the issue, the thread hasn't been deleted, it's there for all to see. It wasn't closed to stop anyone defending themselves it was closed to prevent any bitching.
As we've said previously, we're here to help, but if we don't know what's happening we cant.
Now chill out.
Possibly some of you need to. So far, both you and Mark seem to be taking this very personally.
As for telling me I can leave Mark, you've no need to waste your keyboard skills. I'm strangely enough, well capable of deciding that for myself. You've never fallen over yourself to keep me in the past, so I hardly expect you will now. Other Moderators have however (which was nice), and not just Brian.
Since when has it not been allowed to criticise ("attack") a business? Is it when that business is associated with Seatcupra.net?
I was just a little concerned at what I (and others) see as Seat Bournemouth coming in for a bit of a "kicking", and for whatever reason, Seat MK's fau paux is deemed to be allowed to pass without comment.
The length of time Martyn's problems with the former have dragged on, is irrelevant too. I hardly think had Brian withheld his comments for six months, that the outcome of his Thread would've been any different.
Bottom line is, Brian has a grievance, and he should be allowed to air his views on site. Martyn has one too, and he likewise is entitled, as is or should be, any other member.
By the way, I never once mentioned leaving the Site, so don't get too excited... I will leave when I feel it's time, unless of course you wish to delete my membership.
I do however, feel it's time to relinquish my position as a Moderator. I've felt increasingly uncomfortable over the past few months, having such a Post, bearing in mind my feelings about my former vehicle. Besides, as a Moderator, I've sometimes been unable to comment in the manner I wish.
I'm sure you'll be able to find a replacement without difficulty, and one who can offer more loyalty to the Seat marque than I ever could. I can think of one straight away, who'll no doubt wet himself at the prospect... ;)
:cheers:
Mainly because in all of this, i have nothing, not a thing from Brian, i might add that the past few weeks other accusations made by him, towards people who help on this site, and way before any of this transpired, have marred my view of his aims on this site, and what hes seeking from it.
I can only go off what i know, and at the moment i probably only know halff of it, but what i saw of it makes me wonder why.
I said criticise, not attack, but that ORIGINAL post was not criticism, it was downright fury, and proceeded to get the same response, so why continue running a thread like that, it does no one any favours.
The difference being, Martyn has made efforts to come to a good resolution, and given the dealership plenty of chance to repsond in a favourable manner, and even in criticism, has stated plainly and simply all the facts of the matter.
Im still dubious that ive seen all the facts of this matter. I invite it to be made clear to me, privatley if preferred.
I don't delete people unless forced too, your choice is your own to make, and we've only ever made it once.
If thats your wish, i will relinquish you of your moderator duties, by all means. And dont come that with me Mike, nothings ever stopped you ever replying in the way you wish about your car or your ex car, but your frequenting a site full of SEAT owners and enthusiasts, who will differ in your perception of the car you choose to criticise.
And to be honest that statement makes me think, you can't take the critcism leveled back at you, when people don't agree with your view on something.
This is my final comment on the matter, for the simple fact that its boring me to tears.
Your entitled to your opinion, but my opinion also entitles me to say what i've said, and when Brian finally decides to contact one of the admin team, and give us his side of the story, then maybe that perception will change, but going off all this shite i doubt it.
its an attack on a business
The word was "attack" Mark, just as I quoted, and you said.
Mark, no one generally likes criticism, but before you start throwing the accusation in my direction, maybe you should look to yourself?
I stand by what I said however. I have felt uncomfortable for some months, and now I'm free of any Seatcupra.net "responsibilities", I can really Post what I want. Which may or may not be much at all.
:cheers:
In reference to the original post made, on the closed thread which mysteriously was edited of its content.
that was an attack, not a critcism, and thats what caused offence.
Posting without engaging brain, or under the influence is not advised, as it mars people views, editing posts after the event, to me says, not all the facts were present, or they were clouded.
So how can i take the content seriously?
Originally posted by Toonman
Mark, no one generally likes criticism, but before you start throwing the accusation in my direction, maybe you should look to yourself?
I stand by what I said however. I have felt uncomfortable for some months, and now I'm free of any Seatcupra.net "responsibilities", I can really Post what I want. Which may or may not be much at all.
:cheers:
Good for you :)
Please bring this one to an end - i can't comment as i haven't seen the original post. As to what's there *now* it seems fair tbh. No need to fall out over something so silly.
PEACE!!!!
:cheers:
Firstly, this HAS turned into a tit for tat thread.
Secondly, No-one is bigger than the interests of the site.
Thirdly, Brians first unedited post about Chris @ MK (note personal "crtiticism") was too strong and too harsh to be directed at an individual, and brian knew that it seems and edited afterwards. That is the post we are on about, not the fact he complained against MK Seat, hence where it differs from martyns thread.
Put your Ego's away boys.
Dormouse
12-12-2002, 12:36
Don't want to help carry on the thread to infinity, but having seen the original post edited I think Brian must have seen the error of the style of post (not a critisism m8 we all make headstrong statements or actions at some time or another ALL OF US). Gripes are fine IMHO but lets make em constructive with a mechnanism to get them closed amicably and with all parties being catered for as far as possible.
Besides, as a Moderator, I've sometimes been unable to comment in the manner I wish
As long as it's not done with a verbal shotgun what's the problem?
Dor.
Erm...please see post in the general forum titled "Agression";)
Oh, and don't blame the badgers.:D
:xmas3:
Tis the season to be jolly...
:xmas5: :xmas4: :xmas6: :xmas2:
rally-man
12-12-2002, 16:25
I was going to put up a nice long reply to the 'accusations ' levelled at me personally over the last couple of weeks but I don't want to air this any more on a public forum.
As with most things of this nature,there are two sides to every story and I believe that my interpretation of what was both said and done between myself and Brian is somewhat different to what has been said up to now.
I have my opinions too,something to which I am entitled as much as the next guy.What I choose not to do is air them on here.That is not to say that others shouldn't.
For information,it was not me who asked for the thread to be ended,nor for anyone to be censored.I realise that being involved in a dealership will open us up for criticism as much as praise for what we do for our customers,I have never thought otherwise and never will.
Can I say that I will not answer any more queries/jibes/digs on this forum in relation to this matter but if you want to have a pop at me then why not phone or email me (I'm not hard to find and certainly don't hide) to at least get my side of the story,that's what adults would do isn't it?
Last of all,to all of those people who know me and how I conduct my business in this dealership (and ,those who don't )who have contacted me with messages of support over the last couple of weeks,many thanks.
Chris Dickens
Sales Manager
Milton Keynes SEAT
(aka rally-man)
Cupramax
12-12-2002, 21:47
You should serialize this and sell it to a production company.
What a compelling read.
I say no more.:no:
i know it's short and sweet but cant be bothered with typing
just to say
CALL ME when the dust settles - i'm off
PipSqueak111
13-12-2002, 12:00
Originally posted by Toonman
I do however, feel it's time to relinquish my position as a Moderator. I've felt increasingly uncomfortable over the past few months, having such a Post, bearing in mind my feelings about my former vehicle. Besides, as a Moderator, I've sometimes been unable to comment in the manner I wish.
I'm sure you'll be able to find a replacement without difficulty, and one who can offer more loyalty to the Seat marque than I ever could. I can think of one straight away, who'll no doubt wet himself at the prospect... ;)
Who was that last sentence aimed at and why?
It's the sort of thing that causes grief on here, 'cos different parties currently at loggerheads with you will all take it to be a dig at them and take further offence and things escalate.
To turn it around, it does provide a good example to all of what I (and I think many others) would like to see kept off the site. That is what I would class as a personal attack - worse, it doesn't name anyone so more than one person may be seeing it as an attack upon themself, and it undermines trust between people. Snide digs from anyone aimed at anyone aren't helpful or conducive to the happy-go-lightly atmosphere we usually have on here.
This is just my opinion, and I welcome anyone's comments.
Phill
Tony2Quick4u
13-12-2002, 15:09
for **** sake how about we all grow up, forget what happened and get on with it, talk about a storm in a tea cup or what, i have had my say as everyone else has so lets all shake hands and get on with it............OK!!!
:cheers:
To try and avoid a continuation, I've PMd you Phill. Should you wish my phone number to discuss anything further, please just ask.
It most certainly not aimed at you.
Thanks for you reply to my PM Phill. If everyone responded so quickly and pleasantly, we'd have less misunderstandings. :)
:cheers: