View Full Version : APR Stage 3...booked at Awesome!! (Now With Pics)
APR Stage 3 kit has been finalised released for RHD conversions.
My car a MKIV AUM engined Golf is being fitted with this kit next week....2 week fitting time.
This the first UK kit developed in Australia by APR Australia.
The manifold has been developed with a lifetime warranty which is the most important aspect in my view.
It uses all the APR parts as per their web site except the manifold is slightly different manifold. Utilising the GT28RS turbo my car will have the APR base map installed then tweaked accordingly to produce in excess of 340hp.
Can't wait as I have run out of options my present set up APR stage 2 with FMIC on KO3s and Milltek etc etc.
This kit is already on Jim's car at Awesome but he has the GT2871RS turbo capable of more on the TT. Car has been dyno'd at over 400hp in Australia. It seems the RHD conversions on stage 3 due to the pipework configuration produces better spoil up 300rpm earlier and more power/torque.
APR state that stock internals will be sufficient on my kit. They have been producing this kit on all VAG I.8T units but advise uprating internals over 345bhp. I am discussing stronger internals with Awesome as a safeguard. I tend to a fair few track days as it is but the car is primarily a road car but with quite a bit done for track use.
I expect this kit will easily fit Cupra R's so I expect some will be interested.
I will take some photos and give an update when finished.
Ian
Here is link which gives an overview to the kit.
http://www.goapr.com/VW/products/pics_video_tvs3plus.html
There are more details on the goapr website
Ian
wild willy
28-02-2007, 23:48
Nice kit, any prices to tease us with.:D
Nice kit, any prices to tease us with.:D
TBA....this is the first RHD car with this kit that Awesome are fitting...prices will be announced by them.
The quality of the kit is of a very high standard and will cost more than the eliminator kits.
Ian
ibizacupra
01-03-2007, 15:43
you on commission Ian?
;)
:p
i would hope that this kit isnt much more than £3.5k fitted
seeing as you can get the LHD kit fitted for around £3k in USA
you on commission Ian?
;)
:p
I wish!![B)]
i would hope that this kit isnt much more than £3.5k fitted
seeing as you can get the LHD kit fitted for around £3k in USA
3K fitted in USA?
Don't know TBH.
I expect it will have to compete against likes of the Jabba/MTM/Sportec kits although MTM and Sportec are mega bucks £8K for MTM and 10K for Sportec.
Should get some pics up next week.Dropping car off on Tuesday for fitting.
Ian
cool! keep us posted
Will do....I need to find out how to upload photo's on here unless anyone has any easy instructions...I don't like computers:banned:
go to www.photobucket.com
make an account, upload the pics from your pc
when the pic is uploaded you get 3 links below the thumbnail on the photobucket control panal.
click the one that starts with [img]. this will copy the link to the clip board
just paste this link when composing a new post on here.
give it a shot its easy
or email me the pics and ill host them on here
saul@seatcupra.net
or email me the pics and ill host them on here
saul@seatcupra.net
Saul
Sounds easy...I'll e mail u some pics...thanks.
Thouse 280mm brakes on my valver were a god send and lasted for years..car now sold sadly.
YerMother
01-03-2007, 20:57
I saw the kit on Saturday, the exhaust manifold and downpipe are really good quality, typical APR! The internal surface of exhaust mani is really smooth. Would love to go stage 3 myself :whistle:
Saul
Sounds easy...I'll e mail u some pics...thanks.
Thouse 280mm brakes on my valver were a god send and lasted for years..car now sold sadly.
:thumbup: i thought it was you :)
:thumbup: i thought it was you :)
Valver in Scotland....still going strong...moved onto the MKIV now... wife's old chariot modded as time passed.
Going to the Ring this year?
Ian
I saw the kit on Saturday, the exhaust manifold and downpipe are really good quality, typical APR! The internal surface of exhaust mani is really smooth. Would love to go stage 3 myself :whistle:
You liked it then?
I 've waited ages for this....still KO3s on APR stage 2 has been very reliable and smooth.
I've seen the quality of this kit and waited specifically due to it's warranty back up on specifics that are known to fail on other kits. My car has done 100k now but still drives like the day we got it. Strength of the 1.8t engine should se at least 150k before rebuild/replacement.
I note Neil Birkett's car is very high mileage on his original 1.8t on Revo.
Ian
ibizacupra
01-03-2007, 22:15
I saw the kit on Saturday, the exhaust manifold and downpipe are really good quality, typical APR! The internal surface of exhaust mani is really smooth. Would love to go stage 3 myself :whistle:
is this mani cast or tubular?
was tubular at one point i thought ianb said for rhd
is this mani cast or tubular?
was tubular at one point i thought ianb said for rhd
Bill
I believe it is a tubular manifold but it comes with a lifetime warranty according to Awesome/Guy Harding in Australia. I've yet to see this variety...seen their cast jobbie which is very high quality.
APR have also released their intake manifold for the TT/S3...supposedly produces excellent results
Scotty_b
01-03-2007, 22:59
Would love to know a rough idea on cost on this as to me APR=very relaible=very very good quality
Would love to know a rough idea on cost on this as to me APR=very relaible=very very good quality
Give it a couple of weeks when my car is finished....I believe they will announce price. Worth paying slightly more for the quality and warranty.
The A4 fitted with this kit is superb even on Quattro drivetrain...very smooth and progressive in it's delivery.
Scotty_b
02-03-2007, 00:01
Just watched there vid, very good. But its looks uber expensive to me! Mind you the inlet mani at $800 looked cheaper than i thought!
ibizacupra
02-03-2007, 08:48
Bill
I believe it is a tubular manifold but it comes with a lifetime warranty according to Awesome/Guy Harding in Australia. I've yet to see this variety...seen their cast jobbie which is very high quality.
APR have also released their intake manifold for the TT/S3...supposedly produces excellent results
Their investment cast lhd exhaust mani is a nice bit of kit from what I've seen.
Over on vortex there's been a flowbench test of intake manifolds, results of which I posted on here, and the APR did flow well, but not the highest. Its an interesting "debate" going on there with certain of the APR employee's and their arrogance of "their's will outperform anyones" intake is funny_as to read. If you believe their hype, they are the only people who can design and make anything go fast, be it their hardware or their tuning & software. :rolleyes:
Dream on - lol
Shame that they as a company, are seen by their public face from these employee's on the vortex forums, as extremely arrogant. Its not a +ve attribute for APR. The products are good in many instances, but their arrogance puts people off I'm sure.
Their investment cast lhd exhaust mani is a nice bit of kit from what I've seen.
Over on vortex there's been a flowbench test of intake manifolds, results of which I posted on here, and the APR did flow well, but not the highest. Its an interesting "debate" going on there with certain of the APR employee's and their arrogance of "their's will outperform anyones" intake is funny_as to read. If you believe their hype, they are the only people who can design and make anything go fast, be it their hardware or their tuning & software. :rolleyes:
Dream on - lol
Shame that they as a company, are seen by their public face from these employee's on the vortex forums, as extremely arrogant. Its not a +ve attribute for APR. The products are good in many instances, but their arrogance puts people off I'm sure.
You maybe right Bill from what you have observed on Vortex I know they have been slow to react to UK customer's needs and the fact that it was Guy Harding who developed the RHD hardware needed.
APR are a big concern now perhaps some of which has led to arrogance.
I can certainly think of a UK tuning company who could also be associated with the same arrogance. Trouble is in the tuning world companies competing against each other breeds arrogance that "Our products are the best ot there". It's healthy for competion I suppose comparing products.
APR seem to have the monopoly in the US.
It is interesting looking back at the various options when I rang around being quoted £10k for the "best kit out there claim". How do they sell these kits?
APR seem to have a nice product (fingers crossed). At least it's well proven since 2000 and comes with warranty on the all important manifold.
ibizacupra
02-03-2007, 11:57
I would fully expect the quality of the APR hardware to be as you say, very good, and the price will reflect that (and a bit no doubt)
If some of them were'nt so up themselves it would reflect far better than it currently does. I know several other outfits who also claim there's is best, and then proceed to diss the competition, and thats just plain sad and when I hear it, is an instant switch off. If the products are good, then they will speak for themselves. There are plenty of knowledgeable people around in the industry from a whole assorted number of companies & all with strengths & weaknesses.
How do they sell them?
Some people are more into "perceived brands" and marketting materials, and not looking as in depth at the many other options... who knows. some people insist on Red Lable jeans, some just want jeans. go figure, each to their own.
I was pricing up a kit only yesterday for a guy, and the total for the parts & fitting came in to a hefty £8500, but included internals, lsd, uprated valves/springs, porting head, rods, big BT etc.......... The price of achieving 450+bhp aint going to be cheap if done well & properly.
I look forward to seeing it in the flesh.. its been along time coming... and the $64,000 question of its end price to customers.
I would fully expect the quality of the APR hardware to be as you say, very good, and the price will reflect that (and a bit no doubt)
If some of them were'nt so up themselves it would reflect far better than it currently does. I know several other outfits who also claim there's is best, and then proceed to diss the competition, and thats just plain sad and when I hear it, is an instant switch off. If the products are good, then they will speak for themselves. There are plenty of knowledgeable people around in the industry from a whole assorted number of companies & all with strengths & weaknesses.
How do they sell them?
Some people are more into "perceived brands" and marketting materials, and not looking as in depth at the many other options... who knows. some people insist on Red Lable jeans, some just want jeans. go figure, each to their own.
I was pricing up a kit only yesterday for a guy, and the total for the parts & fitting came in to a hefty £8500, but included internals, lsd, uprated valves/springs, porting head, rods, big BT etc.......... The price of achieving 450+bhp aint going to be cheap if done well & properly.
I look forward to seeing it in the flesh.. its been along time coming... and the $64,000 question of its end price to customers.
Thanks Bill.....I 'm looking forward to this....long wait.
Won't be anywhere in your league but there again it won't be no slouch hopefully!
I will initially be playing safe with output only due to longevity reasons and my everyday use to work. Full rebore rebuild later unless I source a LCR 225 lump.
Rods and pistons definately a consideration if I go for a higher output.
How's your testing at Combe going? Better lap times?
Have you got a link to the Vortex thread.?
Ian
The MoffMeister
04-03-2007, 10:08
just saw this kit and it looks lovely to say the least, i was after a gt28rs not sure now lol unless the price is right, but at least they say it can be fitted in a day and it comes with a full manual to fit yourself which has to be good esp as some garages out there would certainly say it would take longer to do, will be watching this space!
Also on the gt28rs they said about the actuator not being up to the job so what have they used instead then??
ibizacupra
04-03-2007, 14:46
o on the gt28rs they said about the actuator not being up to the job so what have they used instead then??
I took it to mean not what they wanted for their N75 control, as opposed not up to it, which it clearly is for the masses of yanks who fit GT28's onto their various setups
I will post some details this week when I drop my car off and take some pics.
The actuator is custom to their requirements for mapping I assume as Bill mentions. Don't know why and what affect the original item makes.
Does anyone have the GT2871 R fitted as per fitted to APR's TT set in Oz?
I assume the day fitting time will be if the engine's out.?
LEO LION R
04-03-2007, 19:40
So how does the kit compare with Songmans LCR done by Jabba over a year ago ?
YerMother
04-03-2007, 20:17
Well this is a GT28RS based turbo setup! Songmans is IHI!
The turbo is good for high 300s depending on setup/boost etc.
The MoffMeister
04-03-2007, 21:05
I will post some details this week when I drop my car off and take some pics.
The actuator is custom to their requirements for mapping I assume as Bill mentions. Don't know why and what affect the original item makes.
Does anyone have the GT2871 R fitted as per fitted to APR's TT set in Oz?
I assume the day fitting time will be if the engine's out.?
wouldnt say that you'd need the engine out as that would take more than a day for sure!!
Well this is a GT28RS based turbo setup! Songmans is IHI!
The turbo is good for high 300s depending on setup/boost etc.
That is correct but the reason I have waited for this conversion is because it comes as a complete with every nut bolt washer etc etc and has a very high quality manifold developed for RHD that comes with the added benefit of warranty against failure and cracking.
The mapping is well proven in the US as it's been around for some time. All reports I have read over the recent years on Vortex is that the kit is of excellent quality and it produces the goods. It can safely run on stock internals up to 345PS utilising the APR mapping.
I will be more than happy with these figures as it takes my currrent set up into new territory. I am told that the turbo is easily in it''s comfort zone as to achieve these figures it is only running 1.1 bar.
Looking forward to getting the job done!!
wouldnt say that you'd need the engine out as that would take more than a day for sure!!
It will if I'm changing internals....just for ease of installation.
The MoffMeister
04-03-2007, 21:26
ah i see didnt realise you was changing them oops!! then yeah engine out so a couple of good days!!
when will we be able to buy one?
looking for bt at the mo
HoocH
when will we be able to buy one?
looking for bt at the mo
HoocH
Once my car is fitted Awesome will be able to give fitting times etc prices I assume if not give them a ring.
will fit myself...will call them in the morning
cheers
The MoffMeister
05-03-2007, 16:19
any luck on this h17och??
yea... sounds like a good kit
3995+vat so £4700
can get me one in 2 weeks
capable of 500bhp if internals are done (not sure how true that is!?)
HoocH
Scotty_b
05-03-2007, 18:13
Is that inc fitting or supply only?
to tell you the truth im not too sure! hopefully with fitting...cheaper for me then
awesome cant sell it with out the dp tho so im going direct...see where i get!
Scotty_b
05-03-2007, 18:35
Would be intrested to hear how you get on, bangfor your buck and all that as id fit this one myself if i cant sort my issues (only fitting myself to save money)
YerMother
05-03-2007, 18:50
yea... sounds like a good kit
3995+vat so £4700
can get me one in 2 weeks
capable of 500bhp if internals are done (not sure how true that is!?)
HoocH
If you go for the GT2871R it can flow mid to high 400s! That's what Jim is putting on his TT! He is going large port obviously and uprating the internals so that it can rev to 8,000+ rpm to get the extra power!
awesome claimed 500 not sure why but he seem pretty sure!
its not just a gt28rs...apr have modded it!
scott i will help you fit it mate if you want that is!
The MoffMeister
06-03-2007, 16:28
cant belive that 500bhp that would be somethin else alot of money but looks good i presume the price is inc fitting??
ibizacupra
06-03-2007, 18:35
If you go for the GT2871R it can flow mid to high 400s! That's what Jim is putting on his TT! He is going large port obviously and uprating the internals so that it can rev to 8,000+ rpm to get the extra power!
we need more members of the 500 club - lol
c'mon jim... come join in. :)
we need more members of the 500 club - lol
c'mon jim... come join in. :)maybe i could join soon bill? but i'd have to use nitrous;)
found out today that it is parts only...not labour!!
HoocH
Car is now booked in. Dropped car off for fitment.
I didn't take pics as Jim as going to a full spread of the kit. These will posted in due course.
I took a good look at the kit today. It looks superb....just hope it all goes well on the install. The turbo is in fact a modded GT28RS.
The pipework configured for the UK market creates earlier spool up and better flow I am reliably informed from APR is
ibizacupra
06-03-2007, 20:59
and you're surprised?
Oops..pressed wrong button.
Tests on the dyno in Oz whilst writing ECU code showed a 300 rpm improvement....proof will be in the pudding as they say.
The manifold looks superb.....very very strong and thick with lifetime warranty from APR.
I am utilising stock internals capping power as per APR's mapping for Stage 3 +. I am confident it will last for the foreseable future reading APR stage 3 customers on Vortex. The company map this package for stock internals on US spec 93 Octane fuel eqiuivalant to our 97 Ultimate/ Shell V Power.
is it cabable of 500 like ive been told? i think 400 tops, what have they told you ian?
HoocH
500bhp is a lot more than other GT28RS' run at though?
it would have to be at least a garrett gt30 to get near 500bhp:)
Hooch
My kit won't achieve 400bhp....mid to high 300's.
The Garrett GT2871 will achieve 400+ and is being initially fitted to Jim's TT...in fact it's already in....just awaiting mapping.
I'm playing safe with my stock internals as per guidance from APR own blurb.
They are happy at 345 on stock internals. Later when strenthen the engine I will put the APR intake manifold and up power levels but at the moment 345 would easily keep me happy.
I'm looking forward to seeing the kit of parts and finished fitted too
I'm looking forward to seeing the kit of parts and finished fitted too
Thanks....so am I
Hooch
Just awaiting some photo's from Jim to post on here. They were in the middle of dimantling last week. Install next week should be finished hopefully for next weekend. Some fabrication of pipework is need for my Neuspeed Intercooler...fairly straight forward I am told.
Good news is that APR have sorted the Stage 3+ code for my ECU number. Base code when loaded will then be custom mapped for my car.
Just about to organise baffled sump.
Any views on whether I should install catch tank?
Ian
ibizacupra
18-03-2007, 12:27
yes, and you know why.
(sticky tyres, castle combe etc)
Bill who did you use or can you recommend best deal or supplier
Thanks
Ian
ibizacupra
21-03-2007, 14:29
£230 on Jabba's website is a copy of mine (but without extra drain for oil catch tank like mine has)
Mine was from SEAT sport and these were £270 last time I bought one in
Any need for oil catch tank for my needs? Would thought Jabba would have thought of that unless they can add the drain.
I assume the benefit for catch tank is on track only?
na, keeps your pipes and intercooler clean, reccomended
HoocH
na, keeps your pipes and intercooler clean, reccomended
HoocH
Will get one fitted for peace of mind....catch tank system easy to fit on MKIV?
Will it Jabba sump?
easy to fit on MKIV?
Will it Jabba sump?
Yes its easy, best to remove the PCV and all that crap and vent to atmos. One pipe from rocker cover to catch tank another from crank breather to catch tank and a mini filter to atmos.
Drain back is optional, but does save the hassle of draining the tank. You'll need some sort of aluminium flange welded to the sump above the baffle plates. which is what iam doing.
Oh you'll need 19mm ID pipes.
ibizacupra
22-03-2007, 08:19
Any need for oil catch tank for my needs? Would thought Jabba would have thought of that unless they can add the drain.
I assume the benefit for catch tank is on track only?
as I have said many times before.
think about what your oil is doing slopping about, especially on track, on sticky tyres etc.
my came with a drain as supercopas had one and an external vent/breather system on them. (for a reason!)
It may well be fine without, IF you run the right oil level to keep it below the baffles on track. ANY EXCESS will fire straight out into the breather system to be ingested by the engine. Yummmyy pink tastic - oil burner :doh:
some pics of ians ongoing install and kit
http://www.seatcupra.net/users/zboyd/ianbst3/IanST3%2b%20001.jpg
http://www.seatcupra.net/users/zboyd/ianbst3/IanST3%2b%20002.jpg
http://www.seatcupra.net/users/zboyd/ianbst3/IanST3%2b%20003.jpg
http://www.seatcupra.net/users/zboyd/ianbst3/IanST3%2b%20004.jpg
http://www.seatcupra.net/users/zboyd/ianbst3/IanST3%2b%20005.jpg
http://www.seatcupra.net/users/zboyd/ianbst3/IanST3%2b%20006.jpg
http://www.seatcupra.net/users/zboyd/ianbst3/IanST3%2b%20007.jpg
http://www.seatcupra.net/users/zboyd/ianbst3/IanST3%2b%20008.jpg
http://www.seatcupra.net/users/zboyd/ianbst3/IanST3%2b%20009.jpg
http://www.seatcupra.net/users/zboyd/ianbst3/IanST3%2b%20010.jpg
http://www.seatcupra.net/users/zboyd/ianbst3/IanST3%2b%20011.jpg
http://www.seatcupra.net/users/zboyd/ianbst3/IanST3%2b%20012.jpg
http://www.seatcupra.net/users/zboyd/ianbst3/IanST3%2b%20013.jpg
http://www.seatcupra.net/users/zboyd/ianbst3/IanST3%2b%20014.jpg
http://www.seatcupra.net/users/zboyd/ianbst3/IanST3%2b%20015.jpg
http://www.seatcupra.net/users/zboyd/ianbst3/IanST3%2b%20016.jpg
http://www.seatcupra.net/users/zboyd/ianbst3/IanST3%2b%20017.jpg
http://www.seatcupra.net/users/zboyd/ianbst3/IanST3%2b%20018.jpg
http://www.seatcupra.net/users/zboyd/ianbst3/IanST3%2b%20019.jpg
http://www.seatcupra.net/users/zboyd/ianbst3/IanST3%2b%20022.jpg
http://www.seatcupra.net/users/zboyd/ianbst3/IanST3%2b%20023.jpg
http://www.seatcupra.net/users/zboyd/ianbst3/IanST3%2b%20024.jpg
http://www.seatcupra.net/users/zboyd/ianbst3/IanST3%2b%20025.jpg
http://www.seatcupra.net/users/zboyd/ianbst3/IanST3%2b%20026.jpg
why you not using the apr manifold?
HoocH
The inside of that collector looks really clean!
YerMother
22-03-2007, 23:23
why you not using the apr manifold?
HoocH
You talking about the inlet manifold?
If so it's large port. Not sure what 1.8T he has but probably is a small port!
Jim is using one on his setup to mate up to the large port motor he has, but his desired output is considerably more.
ibizacupra
22-03-2007, 23:32
why you not using the apr manifold?
HoocH
That is APR's long awaited rhd exhaust manifold (in jet black ceramic coated)
Its a fab'd manifold.
T25 flanged tho... not T3?
Engine out to fit it tho... or just for ease.
bung some rods in there FFS.. :p
Is IanB excited yet about getting it on the road etc...?
I would be.. going to be some top fun.
The turbo must be close to the bulkhead or is it just the picture making the manifold look longer?
Also would the MAF not work better with a gauze in to stop any turbulance across the sensor?
ibizacupra
23-03-2007, 00:00
The turbo must be close to the bulkhead or is it just the picture making the manifold look longer?
Also would the MAF not work better with a gauze in to stop any turbulance across the sensor?
It does look long in the pictures does'nt it...
The other APR'd MAF housings I have seen have the radius bell mouth on them, which would smooth flow entry. Laminar flow over the sensor position tho... :think: :shrug:
Scotty_b
23-03-2007, 00:09
Looks like a good bit of kit. Hope engine out was just so they could get pics and play around with everthing!
With reagrd to the MAF i would have thought it depends what filter you put on the end, if your running something like a CDA they are designed to create a vortex (spin the air) so putting the flow straightners would defeat the object
ibizacupra
23-03-2007, 08:56
Looks like a good bit of kit. Hope engine out was just so they could get pics and play around with everthing!
With reagrd to the MAF i would have thought it depends what filter you put on the end, if your running something like a CDA they are designed to create a vortex (spin the air) so putting the flow straightners would defeat the object
The point is MAF sensor needs laminar flow to measure accurately. Flow straighteners are there to try and do this. This can also be done by having a bunch of straight diameters worth up stream to allow the air to stabilise before the measuring device (MAF element), but there's not sufficient room in the engine bay.
Scotty_b
23-03-2007, 11:58
So the CDA filter isnt a good idea then or worth it as your creating a vortex over the sensor
The inside of that collector looks really clean!
Yumann
Which part are you referring too?
Is it the breather system?
It has been on track for the last 2 years without baffled sump on sticky rubber....now to be rectified with engine out.
Ian
Ugly black manifold? As it comes with lifetime warranty I'm happy with that..can't really see it anyway.
OE interrnals at moment Bill....capping power to 300-320 until new 1900 motor is completed later in year. I'm told by most in tuning industry that it will be safe including APR.
Quite a costly excercise going 1900 with valves and labour...need to save my pennies
Ugly black manifold? As it comes with lifetime warranty I'm happy with that..can't really see it anyway.
OE interrnals at moment Bill....capping power to 300-320 until new 1900 motor is completed later in year. I'm told by most in tuning industry that it will be safe including APR.
Quite a costly excercise going 1900 with valves and labour...need to save my pennies
costing me around 1500 inc vat to install rods, bore to 83mm (1.9) and install the postons, port and polish the head and install the supertech valves. this inc balancing.
im having other stuff done too, but this is part of the quote.
i source all the parts myself. and the guys who are doing the work are RPM in Kent
ibizacupra
23-03-2007, 13:32
So the CDA filter isnt a good idea then or worth it as your creating a vortex over the sensor
Sensor needs laminar flow for accurate/consistent measurement.
What is it about a BMC which introduces swirl?
I don't see any kind of turbo inlet in the pics (I see an adapter pipe after the MAF but nothing for the turbo itself), how does it link from MAF to turbo, the APR kit usually has a crossover pipe along the top?
ibizacupra
23-03-2007, 15:53
http://www.seatcupra.net/users/zboyd/ianbst3/IanST3%2b%20014.jpg
Is it the ally item with reducer and outlet fittings branching out of it on the right hand side?
silicon elbow onto turbo, vertical ally part, then another silicon elbow onto MAF housing kinda thing.
Must be yes, just seems alot different from the normal APR setup.
ibizacupra
23-03-2007, 19:40
rhd syndrome.
after all the delay in coming, was expecting it to be more than a tubular manifold etc. That was'nt very hard to come up with. :)
Going to be hot and close to the heater pipes coming out of the bulkhead judging by the pictures of it.
Be an interesting install.
not only that! 4700 for the parts for people who want to install it themselfs.
that is way to steep! also it dont look to much of an issue to install, which is a good point. but really if that is the price for just the parts that is soo bad!
That's what I like about these forums...all the doubters..I wonder why I post thimgs....please remember it's APR's first UK RHD drive the manifold initially developed for the TT install....I would have thought there was even less room in the bay than the Golf !! Perhaps not Bill?
If it doesn't fit then I would be very surprised...shame if it didn't and back to square 1.
MYK3..I can't comment on the price you have quoted....not what I'm paying!
From some of your optimsm it all looks a big mistake and an expensive poorly designed kit. I'm sure there maybe issues but that's for Awesome to fathom out with APR.
Does anyone know if there's more space in the TT engine bay? Heat and the pipes being close the manifold will I'm sure get sorted...otherwise it's back to KO3s or similar.
Ian
Bill, imagine tryin to get that in an ibiza engine bay. Turbo would be behind the radio! lol.
Nice kit, but way to expensive in my eyes, be good to see it all on and the figures you get from it. Good luck. :D
Does anyone know if there's more space in the TT engine bay?
Ianfrom my experience of getting stuff done on my tt there is very limited space which is probably why APR kept with the stubby type manifold:) i'm sure there will be teething problems but try and remain calm and patient as the end result will be worth it:funk: looks like i'll have some fierce competition from jims tt at gti this year then:cheeky:
ibizacupra
24-03-2007, 07:53
That's what I like about these forums...all the doubters..I wonder why I post thimgs....please remember it's APR's first UK RHD drive the manifold initially developed for the TT install....I would have thought there was even less room in the bay than the Golf !! Perhaps not Bill?
If it doesn't fit then I would be very surprised...shame if it didn't and back to square 1.
MYK3..I can't comment on the price you have quoted....not what I'm paying!
From some of your optimsm it all looks a big mistake and an expensive poorly designed kit. I'm sure there maybe issues but that's for Awesome to fathom out with APR.
Does anyone know if there's more space in the TT engine bay? Heat and the pipes being close the manifold will I'm sure get sorted...otherwise it's back to KO3s or similar.
Ian
Its deceptive. You would think if it can fit a TT it can fit a golf, much the same as if it can fit an ibiza it can fit anything...BUT as we have just seen on the Badger kit just fitted to matts mk4, its actually tighter in the mk4 than my ibiza to bulkhead and heater hoses. Doable with a few mods, no biggie, but different where I would'nt have thought previously. A great Dan install.
Be interesting to gauge how much less radiated heat comes from a ceramic (jet black) coated manifold. Matts is white ceramic coated, but its still being run in so will see how much heat reduction there is. Based on my ibiza experience racing last year on my new setup, if it can ignite and combust within sight of the mani and DP, it more than likely will. You cant have too much heatshielding and strategic heat wrap over some hot bits, but consider heatwrap bits to be a maintenance/consummable item.
That's what I like about these forums...all the doubters..I wonder why I post things....
MYK3..I can't comment on the price you have quoted....not what I'm paying!
Ian
The two statements above are probably linked ;)
"pimp my ride"
:p
And there are also people who buy direct, do their own stuff, riding on the back of those who have paved the way so they know what bits to get or not. Not everyone wants the risk of all the parts not making the desired end product and if things were to go wrong vs warranty from others. You pays your money and you takes your choice. Quality costs. Simple as. eg: you can buy a "tubular manifold" for $300 on ebay and you can also spend >$2000 on an "equal length tubular manifold". Which is best?
I don't think people are putting the kit down as such, it just looks very different to the LHD APR kit and not an 'official' APR kit as such, I would have though it would have been the same as the LHD setup bar the manifold being sided for RHD ... that's what I was expecting to see, perhaps RHD is being short-changed compared to the LHD kits?
fair play for having a go at something new I say, first time is never easy but with apr and awesome behind the project, chances are it will all be ok, may be a couple hiccups but thats to be expected
very interested to hear how it all goes and keep posting the details !
Cheers
Rob
ibizacupra
24-03-2007, 11:30
I don't think people are putting the kit down as such, it just looks very different to the LHD APR kit and not an 'official' APR kit as such, I would have though it would have been the same as the LHD setup bar the manifold being sided for RHD ... that's what I was expecting to see, perhaps RHD is being short-changed compared to the LHD kits?
I doubt there's a big enough market do investment castings for RHD... nothing more.. Its not like it cant be designed to suit in a cast version as I know it can. Whether there would be any recovery of development and tooling costs for a small market however.... I think people can guess.
I'm just as interested as anyone else with this kit. I don't think they've short changed the kit for RHD as tests show in Australia with this manifold and pipework configuration the spoil up and power figures are even better than the US LHD kit....I have been told that the delivery is some 300rpm sooner.
I just hope the kit delivers the goods and is very driveable without too many issues...with sensible mapping I'm hoping that it shouldn't create massive heat problems but it's something that will be looked at in due course.
Did you have problems with room on any of your kits Bill and did it cause real problems on heat issues?
Ian
ianb, the price i got was from another memebr who got a quote from them, maybe there was comms errror some where allong the lines.
are awsome having trobles fitting the kit did you say? sorry i have just been skim reading the posts.
ibizacupra
24-03-2007, 17:46
I'm just as interested as anyone else with this kit. I don't think they've short changed the kit for RHD as tests show in Australia with this manifold and pipework configuration the spoil up and power figures are even better than the US LHD kit....I have been told that the delivery is some 300rpm sooner.
I just hope the kit delivers the goods and is very driveable without too many issues...with sensible mapping I'm hoping that it shouldn't create massive heat problems but it's something that will be looked at in due course.
Any prospective heat issues will be related to your track use.
nearly equal length tubular manifold is one contributor to good spool
ibizacupra
24-03-2007, 17:50
Did you have problems with room on any of your kits Bill and did it cause real problems on heat issues?
Ian
The compressor on mine sits close to the heat pipes thru the bulkhead, and the radiated heat from anything tubular scorches unprotected things. This is race use so extreme, but your track sessions will see yours working just as hard.
Its for you and Awesome to suss tho is'nt it.
:)
No problems yet with fitting the kit...track use is very much in mind Bill...I will have a conflab with Jim next week if it's tight and if there any extra shielding to be done.
ibizacupra
24-03-2007, 20:56
much much easier to do whilst engines out after all.
save you and Awesome some time
much much easier to do whilst engines out after all.
save you and Awesome some time
Cheers for that!
Scotty_b
26-03-2007, 22:49
Sensor needs laminar flow for accurate/consistent measurement.
What is it about a BMC which introduces swirl?
In the canister theres "conical flow variator", pic explains it a bit better
http://www.bmcairfilters.com/infoCDA.asp
Things are going pretty well at Awesome....all heat issues are being looked at before the engine is installed.
Ian
cool! sounding great!
you must be well excited
what car did you say it was?
HoocH
cool. i think thing will be fine, looking at the turbine housing and mani it seems that the mani goes out quite far but the turbo will sit quite far in so should be ok.
keep us posted and is there a ETA?
ibizacupra
28-03-2007, 09:41
In the canister theres "conical flow variator", pic explains it a bit better
http://www.bmcairfilters.com/infoCDA.asp
exactly... there's no rotation element to a BMC. cone is a funnel.
Dynatwists add their "twist" to the top of their filters as their attempt at swirl (to be different)
cool! sounding great!
you must be well excited
what car did you say it was?
HoocH
It's on a MKIV Golf......yep I'm pretty excited....hopefully things should be really moved on by end of the week.
Ian
No new pics yet? It will be very interesting to see how it all mounts up etc..
Robdon
Yep I've got some more pics...looking superb and it's all back in the car....plenty of space for the manifold and DP.
I haven't decided whether I will post them on here due to earlier comments by some...all I will say is that I'm glad I waited for this kit!!
Jim's Stage 3 TT made 386bhp on just the base Stage 3 code yesterday without running any adjustment....on Garrett GT2871RS unit though!
Ian
yah they sound about right for a gt2871r. i think you should make the 350 band or so which is cool.
i new there wouldnt be any issues with the mani, as i said it looks as if the turbo tucks right in under the manifold, looks a great kit its just too expensive :(
happy for ya, but why cant you post the pics? sorry i didnt catch what was said.
cheers
myk3
P.S. at least email the pics to me! im very interested in seeing the install, and i have nothing to criticize of the quality fitment etc, to me it looks a nice snugg install.
There will always be haters ... fact of life on forums, you just have to rise above it!!! Get the pics up, sounds good! :)
David_smith_909
29-03-2007, 17:24
There will always be haters ... fact of life on forums, you just have to rise above it!!! Get the pics up, sounds good! :)
:yes: agreed :D
Jim's Stage 3 TT made 386bhp on just the base Stage 3 code yesterday without running any adjustment....on Garrett GT2871RS unit though!
Iandidn't think their rollers could calculate power at the flywheel on 4wd cars?as i'm guessing that can't be at the wheels? if it was that would be about 450-460bhp@the flywheel:rolleyes:
didn't think their rollers could calculate power at the flywheel on 4wd cars?as i'm guessing that can't be at the wheels? if it was that would be about 450-460bhp@the flywheel:rolleyes:
I think your right but Jim staed clutch power being what was measured.
Good results either way as his RR is pretty consistant IMO.:)
Photos on their way to Saul....lots of heat wrapping on vital area.
I know it maybe more expensive than other kits but I don't know by how much...I know the MTM and Sportec kits are alot more dosh...at least this is something new for prospective buyers who want a complete package and it comes with excellent back up warranty.
Only consideration will be whether the Neuspeed FMIC will be efficient enough!
Data logging tomorrow hopefully.:funk:
Can't wait!!
Ian
cool! hope to see the pics and logs soon! thanks
Mky3
Have you got a link to your install??
I assume you've got a GT28 on yours at the moment.
Did someone do a custom map??
What's it like on the road!
Ian
The MoffMeister
29-03-2007, 21:52
just a quickie guys what is the flange size of the gt28rs?? cheers
revo did the custom map. it made 320bhp on a SMIC peaking at 80'C. mid 3k is where the fun starts and it pulls hard (full boost of 22psi) at 4k
link to install http://uk-mkvs.net/forums/thread/599353.aspx (though you have to take a read as its a fairly long thread)
overall cost me 2k inc taxes for the turbo kit parts and the eurojet FMIC fitted myself.
thats on a budget and does go well and is good fun, but who knows maybe a 2871r next :D
just a quickie guys what is the flange size of the gt28rs?? cheers
in that pic it looks around 3 inch
ibizacupra
30-03-2007, 08:39
if intake flange it looks T25 size.
The MoffMeister
30-03-2007, 18:10
cheers bill
Brilliant news from Awesome. Had some more news about progress.
Car is soon to be completed.
Engine installed and it had it's first run on the rollers with the APR Stage 3+ 'base' map and the results are superb:
340BHP and 330lbs.
This just the initial base code which will now be studied and tweaked accordingly by APR.
Looking at the graphs the delivery is smooth as silk. Brilliant torque curve...it's got over 200lbs at 2500rpm. Power at really comes in earlier than expected from 3k it's on full song upwards ever upwards.
Torque is super flat across the range.
Car looks very stock under the bonnet just how I wanted it!!
Intercooler works pretty good maxed 50 degrees at it's hottest although I will upgrade it further when rebuild happens or maybe sooner.
Jim has remarked on it's civility on road manners.....very very progress smooth early spool....again just what I wanted!
More to come with tweaking but TBH I'm more than happy with those figures I'm gonna get use to that for the time being re learning the car.
Just having a few more bits done such as baffled sump, Neuspeed mounts new Carbon pads for the 6 pots and the front grill, bumper and valence are being painted.
APR now in process of custom mapping the car. No problems with space or gear linkage using this manifold set up which I was pleased to hear.
Photo's have been sent to Saul but not yet on here.
I saw it run this afternoon Ian, sounds and looks the business. Very impressed :D
I saw it run this afternoon Ian, sounds and looks the business. Very impressed :D
Glad you liked it.......interesting what happens when APR look at the logs!!
Lower intake temps will help in the future but I believe peak temp were on last run.
Ian
Sounds great, you must be one happy chappy!!!
Cheers Rob...very happy..can't believe the delivery below 3k....looking very nice and good for road use too!!
Should fly up the the limiter too.
Ian
Ian,
You definately need to get that IC changed, one thing that my experience wth Awesome proved was that their fan system on the Dyno IS very efficient and the logging I did on the road on the way to them showed that the AIT's on the road were if anything slightly HIGHER on the road than with their fan blasting the front of the car....
Great news Ian, sounds fantastic:funk: - always knew the APR kit would be super! - good luck with it:clap:
nice but its nothing without the pics we all want to see!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The only downside now Ian is that you need to upgrade your rods to go any further, APR state that anything beyond 340bhp and 320lbft needs internals done ... a bitter/sweet success! An FMIC will really help drop the temps too (as I'm sure you're fully aware!).
Yes, we want more pics please!!!
No more power for now!
Rods and pistons etc later
Larger FMIC will be considered but I want to drive the thing first to see how it performs....the Neuspeed item is pretty efficient but could be better.
Looking at the APR item....it's much bigger and I'd need the R32 bumper to fit unless I hack my old one....maybe even the Oettinger bumper may be good.
Only when I go 1900 Rob will I up the levels with their intake manifold etc etc.
I'm not looking for any more grunt at the moment but will perhaps look at some new suspension components available soon at Awesome
Ian
Scotty_b
01-04-2007, 17:05
Be nice to see a price comparison to the IHI systems
Be nice to see a price comparison to the IHI systems
I expect it will be close if not more due to the fact that they offer warranty on this kit and more importantly a Lifetime' warranty on the manifold.
The other benefit for this kit is that everypart comes complete and it fits very well from what I am told. The turbo is well proven too but IMO it will certainly offer better value than the MTM and Sportec kits which are nearly £10k.
Should be picking it up next weekend :D
Would love to see how it spools...
I sent them to Saul.
Maybe he is on holiday?
Ian
Still got them? Send them here, i'll upload them
Still got them? Send them here, i'll upload them
I'll send them now
Ian
http://www.seatcupra.net/users/zboyd/ianbst3/IanST3%2b1007.jpg
http://www.seatcupra.net/users/zboyd/ianbst3/IanST3%2b1008.jpg
http://www.seatcupra.net/users/zboyd/ianbst3/IanST3%2b1009.jpg
http://www.seatcupra.net/users/zboyd/ianbst3/IanST3%2b1010.jpg
http://www.seatcupra.net/users/zboyd/ianbst3/IanST3%2b1011.jpg
keep your eye on that fabric heat wrap - had some on the manifold of my valver and it lasted no more than 3 months, fell apart......ceramic coat is the way to go but I guess its too late for that now - keep your eye on it
also i have read that it can also corrode the metal. due to moisture being trapped in the fabric.
The fitment looks good though, a bit tight to the charge pipe maybe, but the wrap will help that.
Plenty of clearance around the gear linkages. TIP looks like it'll line up nice.
I've been puzzling the dp until I scrolled back and realised it has a separate wastegate tube.
:cartman: Manifold looks "cast" now :cartman:
AndyHazza
02-04-2007, 09:22
didn't think their rollers could calculate power at the flywheel on 4wd cars?as i'm guessing that can't be at the wheels? if it was that would be about 450-460bhp@the flywheel:rolleyes:
The figures are at the flywheel yes, we pulled the haldex fuse for the run to get the figure as far as i know.
David_smith_909
02-04-2007, 10:45
Looks like its coming together nicely :clap:
keep your eye on that fabric heat wrap - had some on the manifold of my valver and it lasted no more than 3 months, fell apart......ceramic coat is the way to go but I guess its too late for that now - keep your eye on it
Will do Rob..thanks....don't know what Guy Harding coated the manifold with but I'll send him an e mail to find out.
In either case I will be taking the engine out when it goes 1900 towards end of the year hopefully. I'll be treating it with respect keeping an eye on temps etc...new I/C to be fitted then too.
Ian
There's a place very close to Awesome in Warrington called Camcoat, website below, excellent product, go for their 4 layer race-spec inside and outside coat - costs approx £150 for a turbo manifold and probably £80-90 for a DP - mate of mine has a 650hp 2.2L turbo valver and runs this on his car, also used on lemans cars etc so well tested
http://www.camcoat.u-net.com/
YerMother
02-04-2007, 13:03
The Mani is already ceramic coated I thought!? Looked like it when i seen the kit at Awesome.
The Mani is already ceramic coated I thought!? Looked like it when i seen the kit at Awesome.
I think your probably right but I will confirm either way
Ian
ian how have you been without a car? my car is in for around 3 weeks (from last week) having all my engine and tranny work done, and i dont have another car lol!!
i managed to get the company pull car for the week end.
around another 2 weeks to go :(
ibizacupra
02-04-2007, 20:15
jet coat black ceramic coating already on the manifold.
wrapping everything in sight - lol (you been listening then)
I would'nt have done the flexi tho.
remember the heat has to go somewhere once wrapped, the rest of the system will have to dissipate.
Wrapping the compressor outlet to keep the heat in?????
keep your eye on that fabric heat wrap - had some on the manifold of my valver and it lasted no more than 3 months, fell apart......ceramic coat is the way to go but I guess its too late for that now - keep your eye on it
Rob
Confirmation received today that manifold is coated in ceramic coating.
Still need to look at better I/C though
Ian
Aussie Guy
03-04-2007, 02:34
Hey - hello from very warm (and very dry) tropical Australia.
Good to see the kits up & running in the UK now :clap: - with a little more software tweaking from APR I'm sure you will find you can have a nice, smooth, driveable 400hp street car (as we do).
bit of history on the kit:
Visited APR about 3 years ago (APR dealer conference) - drove the stage 3+ TT and immediately had to have one (Having had a stage 3+ B6 A4 for some time).
Started work with Jim C from Awesome - Jim shipped some RHD front cuts to Alabama. We decided then & there that there was no way to get the LHD "reverse" plumbing to work with the RHD car.
Went back to OZ & Bought a TT225 (had over 170,000 miles on it).
Pulled it apart & built prototype manifold & plumbing, had APR work on the software. Tuning is a lot different to the LHD kit, we cut out about 5 foot of the excess piping needed to get it into a LHD car. Good result for us as we spool up quicker & make a lot more boost than the other design.
We race our TT - and it is constantly raced in 40 degree C heat (Seeing ambient track temps of beyond 46 C). It is super high mileage and the stock motor has handled all the abuse with ease - we will be building the motor now with stronger rods, an AEB big port head etc. The poor kit has had a really tough time in development :headhurt:
We broke several components and the sets you see the boys running are the
3rd generation components. Tall collector, ceramic coated manifold with lifetime warranty - twin tube downpipe gives us heaps more clearance as well as quicker spool up.
We have test fitted the kit to MKIV GTI's, new Polo GTI :funk: (Yes, I'm serious - our Polo GTI is going to run this kit very shortly) & TT & S3 of course. plenty of firewall clearance in all these. We also use fully crimped production oil lines, and the transition of our intake pipe works extremely well! We run a stock airbox on our cars here - and under the hood, the cars can look dead stock - except for the big blue hose running up to the 3" MAF.
The software on our TT was tweaked with APR over a 4 month period, lots & lots of dynoing & road testing - and the results are supurb. Both Jim's TT (being a VVT - ours is not) & Ianb's GTI are both different code to ours so they will require a little work, but good results from an initial tune!
Shame they don't sell Seat's in Australia any more - but good news is they are bringing Skoda back at the end of the year!
Let me know if you have any questions
http://www.ozaudi.com/projectTT/gallery/
http://www.ozaudi.com/projectTT/album/Car%2074-037.jpg
http://www.ozaudi.com/projectTT/album/Car%2074-048.jpg
invisible?
http://www.ozaudi.com/projectTT/03-07-2005%20011.jpg
next Step:
http://www.ozaudi.com/projectTT/manifold.jpg
Next victim (Project)
http://www.ozaudi.com/projectPOLO/DuttonQLD/DCP_3192.jpg
http://www.ozaudi.com/projectPOLO/03-07-2005%20459.jpg
Our other track car:
http://www.ozaudi.com/ebay/DuttonQLD/IMG_5639.jpg
Rob
Confirmation received today that manifold is coated in ceramic coating.
Still need to look at better I/C though
Ian
manifold should be ok without wrapping then - no matter - maybe jim could get you the other bits done as exchange.....
AndyHazza
03-04-2007, 09:18
Thanks for posting Guy... cant wait for the details from the Polo :) Have you guys fabricated all the stuff for the intercooler etc?
AndyHazza
03-04-2007, 09:45
I would'nt have done the flexi tho.
remember the heat has to go somewhere once wrapped, the rest of the system will have to dissipate.
Wrapping the compressor outlet to keep the heat in?????
Hey Bill,
Had a word with Jeff about this. In an ideal word he would have wrapped the whole exhaust. The wrap is there not only to keep the heat in but also to keep the heat out from the exhaust manifold to charge pipe etc (its an insulator, not one directional). The hotter the exhaust gas the quicker it travels which in turn helps increase spool up time. Jeff wondered why you wouldnt do the flexi as he has used this method for years and never had a problem, cars like FKC (mk2 4x4 1.8T with 460bhp), BigDub (twin VR6 turbo MK3 Golf) and all of his S3 conversions have all been done in this way and never had an issue. Wrapping the flexi like this also helps keep the heat away from the steering rack pinion valve, which can cause the rack to go faulty as we have seen on many big turbo and engine conversion's.
David_smith_909
03-04-2007, 09:50
http://www.ozaudi.com/projectTT/manifold.jpg
what size throttle body is that? looks huge .......
manni looks awesome :) (might be pic making it look bigger)
AndyHazza
03-04-2007, 10:05
No Dave it really is massive! The throttle body is off an R32 IIRC. We have one here ready to go onto the new block for our TT :)
David_smith_909
03-04-2007, 10:08
No Dave it really is massive! The throttle body is off an R32 IIRC. We have one here ready to go onto the new block for our TT :)
NICE ;)
Thanks Guy for your input and history.
Guy has been extremely helpful liasing with myself and Jim all the way on my car.
Apart from the fact the manifold has a good warranty back up and the kit comes 'complete', for a non DIY'r like myself apart from Jabba's kit there's not alot else on offer.
When I researched the kits both European kits from MTM and Sportec were not only prhobitively expensive but thet both use older generation turbo's.
I wanted to spend a bit more on the APR kit due to the fact that I do quite a bit of track work and from my research in the US and with Guy it was reassuring that finally I knew there was a new product now available with a warranty available. Another issue which Guy touched upon was the efficient spoil of the RHD kit utilising the GT28RS which is a boon for road use too.
I'm now looking forward to strengthening the internals and using the aforementioned manifold and revised map. Firstly I have to look at my Inter cooler. I may use a R32 or Oetinger bumper which should be able to house an APR I/C....so if any body is interested in my Neuspeed item which is more than sufficient for KO3/04 applications let me know.
Ian
ibizacupra
03-04-2007, 18:07
Hey Bill,
Had a word with Jeff about this. In an ideal word he would have wrapped the whole exhaust. The wrap is there not only to keep the heat in but also to keep the heat out from the exhaust manifold to charge pipe etc (its an insulator, not one directional). The hotter the exhaust gas the quicker it travels which in turn helps increase spool up time. Jeff wondered why you wouldnt do the flexi as he has used this method for years and never had a problem, cars like FKC (mk2 4x4 1.8T with 460bhp), BigDub (twin VR6 turbo MK3 Golf) and all of his S3 conversions have all been done in this way and never had an issue. Wrapping the flexi like this also helps keep the heat away from the steering rack pinion valve, which can cause the rack to go faulty as we have seen on many big turbo and engine conversion's.
I know what wrap does andy.. :p keeping heat in the compressor discharge pipe tho is'nt advantageous at all tho, as the FMIC now has an insulated "hot" charge to dissipate, so any prospective heat loss down the ally pipework is now given to the FMIC to dissipate. If the exhaust manifolds ceramic coatings working, and the additional heat wrap, then there's little heat for the compressor charge outlet to absorb, and it will likely be higher charge temp than the radiant heat off the insulated manifold.
Wrapping the flexi overheated mine, and it ruptured internally. Road car road milage and a lot of track days, not 1/4 mile runs, this was sustained use on track and 20k road miles/year... just like IanB is going to use his for. Agree with the steering rack comment, as mine is heat shielded with tripple layer aluminium/ceramic composite, as my flexi and DP over that section is not heat wrapped. (to avoid cooking the flexi)
regards
bill
ibizacupra
03-04-2007, 18:09
NICE ;)
yea they are :D :D :D :p
on a nice flowing 007 mani too
Aussie Guy
03-04-2007, 23:10
Thanks for posting Guy... cant wait for the details from the Polo :) Have you guys fabricated all the stuff for the intercooler etc?
hey Andy - yes - looking forward to the Polo - its already a quick little bugger with a K04, High flow manifold, race gas etc. :D Should be mental with 340+hp.
Yes the intercooler core is the APR unit - we modify it here and build the plumbing - fits under a stock bar cover with no cutting - see good drops in IAT's from it!
Aussie Guy
03-04-2007, 23:45
Thanks Guy for your input and history.
Guy has been extremely helpful liasing with myself and Jim all the way on my car.
Apart from the fact the manifold has a good warranty back up and the kit comes 'complete', for a non DIY'r like myself apart from Jabba's kit there's not alot else on offer.
When I researched the kits both European kits from MTM and Sportec were not only prhobitively expensive but thet both use older generation turbo's.
I wanted to spend a bit more on the APR kit due to the fact that I do quite a bit of track work and from my research in the US and with Guy it was reassuring that finally I knew there was a new product now available with a warranty available. Another issue which Guy touched upon was the efficient spoil of the RHD kit utilising the GT28RS which is a boon for road use too.
I'm now looking forward to strengthening the internals and using the aforementioned manifold and revised map. Firstly I have to look at my Inter cooler. I may use a R32 or Oetinger bumper which should be able to house an APR I/C....so if any body is interested in my Neuspeed item which is more than sufficient for KO3/04 applications let me know.
Ian
Hi Ian,
Glad its all come together. I'm sure your cooler climate will be much nicer on the components and alow for extended track time. We heat wrap our manifold fully but we will probably wrap the downpipe & exhaust as well (same as yours) - There are several different brands of heat wrap over here - we have found that the DEI type lasts for years & the ceramic coat prevents any corrosion under the wrap. Mind you - its hot & dry - (can't remember the last time it rained :cry: )
AndyHazza
04-04-2007, 09:45
can't remember the last time it rained :cry:
Just to rub it in hey Guy :p
Picking the car up this weekend...........fingers crossed....can't wait!!
good stuff, will be nice when i get my car back!
David_smith_909
05-04-2007, 11:35
Picking the car up this weekend...........fingers crossed....can't wait!!
do you know when? i might pop down to have a quick look if you dont mind
AndyHazza
05-04-2007, 12:05
You'd have to call down today dave as we are shut after today :(
David_smith_909
05-04-2007, 12:19
aah :(
no worries mate, cant get down today
awesomeade
26-04-2007, 14:50
Stage3 kit officially released now and details on our website :)
http://www.awesome-gti.co.uk/vw%20golfmk4/engine.html
YerMother
26-04-2007, 15:17
I thought it's not and investment cast exhaust manifold, it's a fabricated tubular one!?
David_smith_909
26-04-2007, 15:22
3995 with or without vat?
YerMother
26-04-2007, 15:32
Without VAT! Say at top of page.
awesomeade
26-04-2007, 16:03
hmm i'll double check those details ;)
just looking at those pics again of it fitted, how do your shifter cables not get in the way of the 90* elbo?
got any pics?
thanks
just looking at those pics again of it fitted, how do your shifter cables not get in the way of the 90* elbo?
got any pics?
thanks
Sorry I haven't got any pics....I'll take a look later.
Car will be Inters if you want to take a look then on Awesome's stand.
How's your car going??
I'm still giggling with this level of performance it's great and very useable.:funk:
Ian
hey, yah not bad, gota massive leak at the manifold to head at the moment.
so i though now once i have removed every thing to fix it i may aswell just get a proper gt2871r kit to take advantage of extra power and quicker spool.
then sell the old kit
ill let you guys know of any progress.
Ian - have you had a go in Jim's A4? How does it and yours compare on spool etc?
Do you know if it's basically the same turbo in the A4 to what's on yours?
myk how much would you want for your turbo/manifold etc...?
prob looking around 950 or so for the lot. will make my mind up when the new kit is finaly in
Ian - have you had a go in Jim's A4? How does it and yours compare on spool etc?
Do you know if it's basically the same turbo in the A4 to what's on yours?
Yes I have driven Jim's A4...same turbo and set up but the car is obviously that much heavier and power is slit on the 'proper' Quattro 4WD.
Very quick car but obviously the two car's feel different to drive. The Golf feels that much lighter and punchier. Also Jim's car has the original APR manifold and pipework is different therefore the spool is similar but I felt my car spooled earlier.
Jim's runs the bigger turbo
Hope this helps
Ian
thechief
02-06-2007, 11:50
4495+vat@17.5% = £5281.625
Are you guys serious or is that a misprint?
4495+vat@17.5% = £5281.625
Are you guys serious or is that a misprint?
that is such a stupid price if that is true.
turbo costs around 700, manifold should cost no more than 1000 (and that is really over priced for a mass produced part), dp no more than 350, intake around 100, injectors and maf cant be more than 400.
4495+vat@17.5% = £5281.625
Are you guys serious or is that a misprint?
You pays your money and take your choice.
Your paying for more than just a bolt on cobbled together kit!!
Your paying for a very high quality kit with proven reliability that's why I waited for this having read extensive reports from other users around the globe.
Anyhow take a look at the prices of the MTM and Sportec kits....older kits and older turbo's but prices are well over 2k more!!....
I took the view that looking at the longer term with further mods planned and the back up with the installation and overall package it's a price worth paying especially if your note a DIY'r like myself.
The Garrett turbo and wastegate is not a 'out of the box' item...it has been fettled for APR for their package...that's the thing about the kit all components are made in harmony to work together after extensive research.
I know that Awesome are already in the process of fitting kits to another Golf 4 and an S3 with more in the pipeline.....definatelty a market out there.
I noted the 400bhp APR Golf 5 in this month's Evo voted best package from several leading magazines.....they must be doing something right!!!
Still extremely happy with my car no matter what you think on price :p...a price worth paying IMHO.
Good luck to Awesome...hope they sell a good few units!! :clap:
i think apr's price is about right really! i'm guessing that price includes fitting and mapping also? imo it's a bit of a gamble sourcing all the bits separately as they might not complement each other and cost you in the long run as bits have to be modified to fit:cry:i had the jabba kit and recently changed the turbo for a bigger unit and things had to be modified to get it all to fit properly. a lot of people on here collect all the bits over a 1-2 year period it seems to save money but what happens if it doesn't all work together? could you get your money back:doh: i've been there done that! bought the wrong stuff because it was cheaper only to find out it was no good:censored: jabbas kit is circa 4k,backdraft is about the same but apr's looks better quality and the turbo is good for 400bhp i think?if you've got the money to buy it then that's your choice:)
thechief
03-06-2007, 15:00
i think apr's price is about right really! i'm guessing that price includes fitting and mapping also? imo it's a bit of a gamble sourcing all the bits separately as they might not complement each other and cost you in the long run as bits have to be modified to fit:cry:i had the jabba kit and recently changed the turbo for a bigger unit and things had to be modified to get it all to fit properly. a lot of people on here collect all the bits over a 1-2 year period it seems to save money but what happens if it doesn't all work together? could you get your money back:doh: i've been there done that! bought the wrong stuff because it was cheaper only to find out it was no good:censored: jabbas kit is circa 4k,backdraft is about the same but apr's looks better quality and the turbo is good for 400bhp i think?if you've got the money to buy it then that's your choice:)
I thought it was a 28RS?
Its just the whole vag scene in general that is overpriced, take a look at options for evo's to see whats available and how overpriced the stuff is.
If it includes fitting/mapping then I agree its not a bad price.
Its just the whole vag scene in general that is overpriced, take a look at options for evo's to see whats available and how overpriced the stuff is.
totally agree jap stuff is cheaper but they've been doing it alot longer! when i bought my tt in 2002 there wasn't much available but now there's tons of stuff:funk:
Its just the whole vag scene in general that is overpriced, take a look at options for evo's to see whats available and how overpriced the stuff is.
Lots more cars to recoup the R&D over as well - which is an important factor
everyone has to make some money on the parts too, and shipping, import duty too - and it all adds up
ibizacupra
04-06-2007, 13:24
shopping for DIY as opposed drive in drive out is a ££ question for folks as well as ability to fettle things yourself to make it all fit together nice.
There are bound to be small items which get adjusted/replaced/fabricated as you go, its nature of the beast.
From reading above i do agree with the bolt on advantage and the APR kit does look a good quality fit!
The GT28RS will not make 400bhp def not on pump fuel, IMO they should have made it a GT2871r or at least made the option for the extra cost of the turbo.
But from what I have heard it costs 5.2k for the kit only, then there is mapping and optional fitting on top which at a guess will be 1.5k extra.
What really frustrates me is that the APR stage 3 kit for the LHD cost around £2500 for the same kind of stuff.
+ import vat and duty £3050
+ shipping which should be no more than £150
= £3200
Where does the extra 2k come in to play?
The only ease of install that comes in to play when you buy a kit are:
Turbo is clocked to the correct position
WG is mounted to suit how it has been clocked
Coolant and oil lines are all correct length
Inlet has all the vacs barbs and points to the intake/MAF correctly.
All the above are very easy to do yourself when you are installing the kit.
If you buy are dp and manifold from a good dealer where the turbo meets the DP correctly then there isn’t that much hassle left to do.
Where does the extra 2k come in to play?
.
R &D costs verses likely sales volumes, + of course good old VAT
Labour costs in the UK are much higher than the US, as everything costs more to buy.
Some of us can do it ourselves, but if APR's kit had been available 3 years ago, there's be one on my car. They make very high quality items that are no brainers for the customer.
If I put in the hours I've spent on research to get mine right (and wrong) on occasions, at £10 an hour (low labour rate), It's be a lot cheaper to have bought the APR kit and to have had it fitted by awesome.
The drive in drive out approach buys a certain level of piece of mind, but Id only assume that with certain suppliers. Awesome would be on this list.
Some others I'd steer well clear of, and others are just too small to give me confidence that they have the resource to back up their warranties.
As has been said. 'You pay your money, you make your choice.'
As I have said all along APR's kit is great quality, fits nice, have a great after sales service and no doubt really gives some good power with quick spool.
Overall I think the price needs to be revised. these prices will make customers think oh, ill go IHI then. IMO if I was a new customer to the VAG scene and didnt know much DIY i would have defiantly given jabba my business over this one. only due to the price.
I guess here in the UK prices have to be a little higher due to the much smaller market. But still I think a nice chuck can still be slashed from that total price!
No means of bitching here, just my honest thoughts. ;)
Myk3
As I have said all along APR's kit is great quality, fits nice, have a great after sales service and no doubt really gives some good power with quick spool.
Overall I think the price needs to be revised. these prices will make customers think oh, ill go IHI then. IMO if I was a new customer to the VAG scene and didnt know much DIY i would have defiantly given jabba my business over this one. only due to the price.
I guess here in the UK prices have to be a little higher due to the much smaller market. But still I think a nice chuck can still be slashed from that total price!
No means of bitching here, just my honest thoughts. ;)
Myk3
I agree that APR should have launched the kit 3 years ago as I know that Awesome were very frustrated with the lack of foresight by APR to the UK market. Thankfully Guy Harding in Australia sorted out the RHD developement work.
The kit certainly represents an alternative to the main aforementioned kits ie MTM Jabba and Sportec etc etc.
It is IMO a step on from Jabba's kit only in respect of bearing cartridge reliabilty turbo housing issues abd some cracking manifold issues especially when you are running the turbo to 350+ bhp.
The GT28RS in my configuration comfortably makes 340 bhp on 98 RON. It will make (360+ on RACE fuel programme on my car) and more with the APR inlet manifold and a better FMIC....THE ONLY RESTRICTION IS INTERNALS!!!
I liked IHI kit's but I was worried about my hard use on track which put me off the BT for such a long time. Only time will tell when I get on track soon
Ian
Really awesome could have made a template for the manifold and DP for a Garrett turbo within 3 years, even if they had to outsource a 3rd party company to do the welding. Then piece together the correct sized lines and silicone shapes etc.
They could have also sold the kit for less and prob make more money per kit.
well this is what i would have done, unless they are not aloud to for what ever reason?!
I bet there was a lot of marketing/contractural issues and faffing about which stopped them from getting on with it.
Don't forget that Awesome aren't APR - what I mean is that the kit is APR's and Awesome are "just" a distributor (well, a lot more than that, but I think you know what I mean).
ibizacupra
06-06-2007, 08:39
I agree that APR should have launched the kit 3 years ago as I know that Awesome were very frustrated with the lack of foresight by APR to the UK market. Thankfully Guy Harding in Australia sorted out the RHD developement work.
The kit certainly represents an alternative to the main aforementioned kits ie MTM Jabba and Sportec etc etc.
It is IMO a step on from Jabba's kit only in respect of bearing cartridge reliabilty turbo housing issues abd some cracking manifold issues especially when you are running the turbo to 350+ bhp.
The GT28RS in my configuration comfortably makes 340 bhp on 98 RON. It will make (360+ on RACE fuel programme on my car) and more with the APR inlet manifold and a better FMIC....THE ONLY RESTRICTION IS INTERNALS!!!
I liked IHI kit's but I was worried about my hard use on track which put me off the BT for such a long time. Only time will tell when I get on track soon
Ian
You have yet to see how well your manifold lasts Ian
early days and not been on track yet
;)
YerMother
06-06-2007, 09:25
The manifold got well tested on Guy Hardings TT, lots of track use! It has a lifetime warrentee anyway just for some piece of mind!
ibizacupra
06-06-2007, 13:58
The manifold got well tested on Guy Hardings TT, lots of track use! It has a lifetime warrentee anyway just for some piece of mind!
and lifetime guarantee does'nt mean it cant crack or wont, but that you will get support and repair in the event.
Until these things see serious abuse like track/race use you cannot proclaim it unbreakable, because it simply wont be in reality. Road use, no matter how hard you "think" you drive it is nothing like full on track use.
speaking from experience..
over time and many 1000's of +300bhp milage and track/race use.
One car that seems very robust are the Honda Integra DC5....I'd like to give one of those a blast arounfd Combe on Inters....seen a couple Mugen tuned cars that rev to 9200!!!!
May not be 300bhp but certainly they seem to like revs and abuse on track!!
Maybe my next project?
ibizacupra
19-07-2007, 16:10
*bump*
you been on track yet with your motor Ian?
how did it go?
RS day?
*bump*
you been on track yet with your motor Ian?
how did it go?
RS day?
Yep went to RS Day Bill.......car was absolutely superb until I had an annoying stupid jubilee clip removing itself from the lower intercooler pipe (VW rubber S neck pipe where it joins intercooler pipe)
Bought some more clips from Merlin motorsport and had to run low boost session as evertime I turned the wick up the clip and pipe woud come apart with all boost going to atmo.
Unfortunately some weeks prior we had shortned the hose as it had frayed one end. This had knock on effect with not enough clamping area for clip.
New hose ready for fitment.....
Apart from that when I was able to get a few good laps at full chat it mostered the field....Evo guys very surprised......got some 1.18's in though with more to come....need bigger brakes stoipping it going up into Avon Rise was an experience as was the terminal speeds. Totally refocuses driving style and braking distances!! Ford boys were interested to say the least...pleasant day except for an annoying issue.
Ian
ibizacupra
21-07-2007, 23:08
cool.
you doing autometrix day?
get some numbers on the side and join in combe saloons..
and try doing those time on road tyres :p
cool.
you doing autometrix day?
get some numbers on the side and join in combe saloons..
and try doing those time on road tyres :p
Yep that's inter's tyres for you!! Tried it on F1's at Donnington,,very average in the dry not a patch on Inters....bigger difference on the MKIV compared to my old valver being a heavier car.
May do the Autometrix day are you??
CV boot survived!!
Ian
ibizacupra
21-07-2007, 23:33
yay for the cv boot..
I'm booked for autometrix day yea.. hoping cars in one piece for then still.
you never know.
yay for the cv boot..
I'm booked for autometrix day yea.. hoping cars in one piece for then still.
you never know.
Yeah it's a learning curve although with this new development....showed a nice turn of pace for the power it develops.
Nice smooth spool out of Quarry making big oomph down into 1st chicane a couple of times out braked myself....slower in faster out seemed order of the day.
So what HP u running now...:help:
ibizacupra
21-07-2007, 23:49
>500bhp currently on smaller turbo.. I damaged my red couple of races ago when the oil drain pipe pulled off.. (front engine mount nut had come off somehow) so motor rocked about big time denting bonnet with throttle body, and flexed the downpipe, turbo etc.... V-band connection looked to have got splayed apart a bit and the heat shield under the turbine wheel rubbed the turbine wheel... and with the heat etc... cracks in the turbine wheel appeared. - None of this apparent until I took it all apart mind you, it still went like fcuk aside from oil pouring out from the oil drain.. :whistle: woops.
Transmission is my real concern. Poor thing is being caned.
Approach speeds into corners and scribbing that speed back off again is taking a while to get used to... where the limit is. Quarry and Tower being a couple of veyr high speed approaches as you know, with big consequences if you get it wrong.
just close to 8000rpm in 4th up avon rise currently.. scarey as hell
>500bhp currently on smaller turbo.. I damaged my red couple of races ago when the oil drain pipe pulled off.. (front engine mount nut had come off somehow) so motor rocked about big time denting bonnet with throttle body, and flexed the downpipe, turbo etc.... V-band connection looked to have got splayed apart a bit and the heat shield under the turbine wheel rubbed the turbine wheel... and with the heat etc... cracks in the turbine wheel appeared. - None of this apparent until I took it all apart mind you, it still went like fcuk aside from oil pouring out from the oil drain.. :whistle: woops.
Transmission is my real concern. Poor thing is being caned.
Approach speeds into corners and scribbing that speed back off again is taking a while to get used to... where the limit is. Quarry and Tower being a couple of veyr high speed approaches as you know, with big consequences if you get it wrong.
just close to 8000rpm in 4th up avon rise currently.. scarey as hell
U going back to the bigger turbo unit eventually or staying at current set up?
What box u using now or any future plans for stronger box?
ibizacupra
22-07-2007, 00:04
reds going back on as soon as it arrives.. I miss the extra power it gives me.
researching box now. not that many options tho in reality and all of the are significant ££