View Full Version : Gt2x
Hi got a mk 3 ibiza cupra at the mo with a few mods and looking to go for the GT2X turbo conversion in the near future but would like LOADS of advice first.
1. Is it worth it?
2. Do you get turbo lagg? (if yes how much!)
3. What will i need ?
4. Is there a company that do the conversion?
Also anything else you think i should know! ;)
Cheers peeeps :D
Have a look on Vortex, quite a few of the yanks have them, there seems to have been a few problems with the turbo's going.
They are available either direct from ATP or through Big Boys Toys or Star Performance, seem to be getting around the 285 Bhp Mark but are from what I have read quite laggy, not spooling fully until 3300rpm The fitted and mapped price comes to about 3K so not a cheap option, you will need an FMIC, minimum 2.5" DP/Cat, 386 or 440cc injectors and Jim at Star recommends a boost controller.
Was looking to go this way but did not like the prospect of a lot of Lag hence I am going with a TT K04 remapped to about 270 and 300 Lbs/ft ( hopefully)
GT2X isn't laggy at all (you think full spool by 3300rpm is laggy?), I went from a K04 to a GT2X and found very little difference in the spool, it's a much better turbo though, had mine a year now and am still happy with it, had zero problems in that time, turbo still 100%, no cracked manifold, nothing. Had a straight line drag with an Impreza STi from 70mph upwards and pulled away from it, in an Ibiza it should be pretty darn quick. Mine made 287bhp and 309lbft at 1.35BAR of boost.
cupra_matt
21-03-2007, 18:40
I agree with RobDon,
Not had any problems with mine either, mine made 284 BHP and 296 ibft at 1.3 BAR of boost,
K04 wont spool much sooner.
I found that with the manual boost controller it was laggy, b ut with the apexi its spot on.
Power is strong all the way to redline with no pressure drop.
Blows away alot of fast stuff including M3's, subaru's, evo's, porsches etc etc
Boost controller is a must on this setup.
You will need the following:
ATP Manifold
ATP GT2X Turbo Kit
2.5" DP and sport CAT
Cat back exhaust
S3 Turbo intake pipe
S3 MAF
Induction Kit
S3 Injectors
FMIC
4 BAR FPR
Boost controller
Remap
Think thats it.
matt
Yes, the Apexi deffo makes a difference, holds boost very well, cracking bit of kit.
cupra_matt
21-03-2007, 19:09
Yes, the Apexi deffo makes a difference, holds boost very well, cracking bit of kit.
Agreed :)
Matt who done all the work on yours?
ibizacupra
22-03-2007, 08:22
Apexi is just a controller solenoid same as N75 in the business end. nothing its doing is better than the OE control, presuming you are able to map it accordingly. Apexi gives it to DIY level, which is its advantage, so long as it does'nt fight the ecu in other respects.
wild willy
22-03-2007, 17:31
GT2X isn't laggy at all (you think full spool by 3300rpm is laggy?), I went from a K04 to a GT2X and found very little difference in the spool, it's a much better turbo though, had mine a year now and am still happy with it, had zero problems in that time, turbo still 100%, no cracked manifold, nothing. Had a straight line drag with an Impreza STi from 70mph upwards and pulled away from it, in an Ibiza it should be pretty darn quick. Mine made 287bhp and 309lbft at 1.35BAR of boost.
Rob, what boost does this turbo hold at the red line.
cupra_matt
22-03-2007, 21:37
Matt who done all the work on yours?
Me :)
No good to me then :( , is there a company out there that do the conversion like jabba do their ihi?
Star Performance will do the whole package, fitting, mapping, boost controller or full Apexi regarding costs, this is an quote from a an e-mail from Jim at Star re pricing
'David, to supply & fit the GT2X along with the ATP manifold is Ģ1698.00.
Supply & fit apexi is Ģ385.00.
Mapping is Ģ599.00.
This kit is good for 275-285bhp
This does not include the S3 Injectors, DP/Cat, exhaust, FMIC, TIP, FPR as I already have them all.
PS Matt / Rob didn't intend my post about the turbo to offend, just what I had read on vortex and a tuner I use reckoned they have 6 ATP Manifolds awaiting refunds due to cracking.
Have you both upgraded your Fuel pumps to 4 Bar as well? I am planning on using the TT fuel pump module in the 3 Bar sender unit / housing if it fits
Still on stock fuel pump with 4-bar reg, S3 injectors, 75% duty cycle. 6 manifolds out of how many sold, thousands I bet. HKS turbo manifolds crack so it's nothing new really, even HKS stuff fails.
Wild Willy - can't give you an exact answer but mine boosts to 1.4 BAR and hardly tails off towards the redline at all, maybe still 1.1-1.2 BAR at 6500rpm, it's definately still over 1 BAR, it does hold boost very well, no BS. My old K04 used to fall on its face after 5k rpm, GT2X doesn't.
No offence taken, I just get miffed when people say things that are not strictly accurate!
my k04 has 1.3bar at redline! why was your k04 givin up at 5k?
Hooch
wild willy
23-03-2007, 20:08
my k04 has 1.3bar at redline! why was your k04 givin up at 5k?
Hooch
Not doubting you buddy, but do you have any logs as my lcr k04-02 doesn't hold anywhere near that at the red line.
David_smith_909
29-03-2007, 12:34
will sort some out 2mz
any news on these?
wild willy
29-03-2007, 12:38
any news on these?
My k04-023 turbo will hold a maximum of 1.13 bar at the red line and i think this is a good figure. I just can't see any unmodified k04 to hold 1.3 at the red line. I have a hybrid k04 to be fitted soon and i doubt that it will make 1.3 bar at the red line. The other guys are getting 1.2-1.25 with their hybrids which is quite respectable.
David_smith_909
29-03-2007, 12:41
My k04-023 turbo will hold a maximum of 1.13 bar at the red line and i think this is a good figure. I just can't see any unmodified k04 to hold 1.3 at the red line. I have a hybrid k04 to be fitted soon and i doubt that it will make 1.3 bar at the red line. The other guys are getting 1.2-1.25 with their hybrids which is quite respectable.
dont slap me, but whats that in psi?
wild willy
29-03-2007, 12:56
dont slap me, but whats that in psi?
My dodgy maths calc reveals, 1.13bar x 14.5psi = 16.39 psi.
Its totaly maxed out at this level.
David_smith_909
29-03-2007, 13:57
My dodgy maths calc reveals, 1.13bar x 14.5psi = 16.39 psi.
Its totaly maxed out at this level.
i see 20psi at redline on my setup (on gauge) , dont know what that equates to in 'bar' ? peak is 22psi
ibizacupra
29-03-2007, 14:02
14.5psi to a bar 1.5bar is your 22psi
cupra_matt
29-03-2007, 17:35
My GT2X holds 1.3 BAR as far as i dare rev it, have seen 1.5 bar at around 6900 rpm when setting apexi up.
David, what setup are you running?
David_smith_909
29-03-2007, 19:07
David, what setup are you running?
AM04 (stg2 form) with jabba map :)
wild willy
29-03-2007, 20:55
Guys any chance you compare in vagcom measurements so we can eliminate gauge error.
ibizacupra
29-03-2007, 23:18
remembering 1.55bar is max +ve pressure map sensor reads.
David_smith_909
30-03-2007, 09:10
Guys any chance you compare in vagcom measurements so we can eliminate gauge error.
hopefully getting some next weekend mate so will post them up
had some on laptop but since been upgraded to vista and lost everything
cant get vagcom working on vista now, hence why im waiting to see my mate next weekend with a working copy for logging :)
sportuner
31-03-2007, 12:58
everybody speech of 280cv with 1.3 bar, but nobody illustrates testing :banned:
I think 280cv is to much dream, with 1.3 bar
1.3 bar in the 20vt of a friend
http://img477.imageshack.us/img477/203/marcoscortapw0.png
KW = x 1.36 = BHP
in cv http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/7905/marcosgt2xcvsu9.jpg
regards
Every GT2X that Star have done has made over 280bhp at 1.35 BAR, it's a reality not a dream. Proper mapping and supporting mods is the key, slap a GT2X on a near standard car and it won't happen.
sportuner
31-03-2007, 13:46
I think have all mod need for 280 BHP
FMIC forge
TIP S3 forge
Pum fuel ATP
S·3 inyectors FPR 4 bares
MAF S·3
Free turbo-back super spint racing sistem in 2.5"
at the moment is 265 bhp 1.3 bar
what kinder I need for 280bhp ??
3 inch downpipe, 3 inch inlet and an open cone filter - plus proper mapping of course, a semi-generic map will not get you over 280. Since fitting a 3 inch turbo inlet I now know that the S3 Forge TIH was restrictive because my car pulls harder and has better top end with the larger inlet, my Apexi boost controller is set to 1.3 BAR and it holds 1.1 BAR to the redline. I also found the BMC CDA restrictive too.
cupra_matt
02-04-2007, 18:02
3 inch downpipe, 3 inch inlet and an open cone filter - plus proper mapping of course, a semi-generic map will not get you over 280. Since fitting a 3 inch turbo inlet I now know that the S3 Forge TIH was restrictive because my car pulls harder and has better top end with the larger inlet, my Apexi boost controller is set to 1.3 BAR and it holds 1.1 BAR to the redline. I also found the BMC CDA restrictive too.
BMC CDA restricting it you think? Hmmm i hope not cause was expensive.
What do you run robdon?
What TIP do you have now, i would like bigger on mine but fitment will be an issue.
Think i will try a open cone filter and do some MAF logs.
cupra_matt
02-04-2007, 18:04
everybody speech of 280cv with 1.3 bar, but nobody illustrates testing :banned:
I think 280cv is to much dream, with 1.3 bar
1.3 bar in the 20vt of a friend
http://img477.imageshack.us/img477/203/marcoscortapw0.png
KW = x 1.36 = BHP
in cv http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/7905/marcosgt2xcvsu9.jpg
regards
my car Makes 284 BHP @ 1.3 bar.
sportuner
02-04-2007, 19:07
Thank you very much for your answer, I do not try to be hard in my words, but I do not dominate very well in English.
I forget to comment, also have manifold ATP, and CDA BMC but is no especiif of ibiza mk3 is of LCR sat model, is more bigger than ibza mk3, and to have a ram air in 80mm for to take cold air of the outside
the DP in 3 I do not think possible in ibiza mk3 it does not fit
I have the similar mod than cupra-mat but I do not have 280bhp
David_smith_909
02-04-2007, 21:28
Thank you very much for your answer, I do not try to be hard in my words, but I do not dominate very well in English.
I forget to comment, also have manifold ATP, and CDA BMC but is no especiif of ibiza mk3 is of LCR sat model, is more bigger than ibza mk3, and to have a ram air in 80mm for to take cold air of the outside
the DP in 3 I do not think possible in ibiza mk3 it does not fit
I have the similar mod than cupra-mat but I do not have 280bhp
mapping :shrug:
cupra_matt
02-04-2007, 23:55
I would agree that mapping plays a large part.
Yup, as I said a semi-generic map won't do it, has to be fully custom mapped.
I have a Seat Leon FR with the GT2X. 1 year now... pushing 1.4 bar, and same setup that many from here.. (fmic, 3"turbo back, 380cc injectors @4bar, 3" CAI, etc)... I made a custom TIP, because OEM is very restrictive, also took my intake manifold and coated on a special paint that rejects heat... donīt know how itīs called in english, but you can push the car hard, stop, open hood and put your hand on it and wonīt burn!!!... Also have polished inside and opened ports..
Donīt really know how much hp is pushing because there is no dyno around, but I can say that itīs pushing much harder than a Cupra R with all mods (still k04), Audi S3 with mods, ... really happy.
Mapping is APR K04 software and some tweaks with LW, V-Tune and MBC.
Sounds great, much like mine, since fitting the 3" hardpipe inlet, K&N filter with flow stack and upping the boost from 1.3 to 1.4 BAR, it feels fantastic, pulls really hard all the way to the redline, the GT2X is a very underrated turbo.
Here's some blurb from ATP's site to remind people what they said about it:
"The newly developed “GT2X” bolt-on turbo unit makes for an exceptional replacement for both the K03 and K04 turbo customer who likes their turbo in the stock location utilizing the stock exhaust manifold. This turbo is also for the customer that does not want to miss out on the low end “grunt” or torque of the stock turbo. However with the GT2X, expect to be pleasantly surprised by the flatness of the torque band and linear power delivery all the way to redline. Unlike the K03/K04 series, the GT2X has been designed to allow for a full power band on the 1.8T engine without choking up after 5000 rpm due to excessive backpressure at the turbine (a common problem even for customers that have upgraded from a K03 to K04).
What makes up the GT2X is a combination of a highly efficient small frame Garrett turbo cartridge (consisting of a highly optimized wheel combination that is fully assembled and high speed balanced from the Garrett factory) and an ATP cast exhaust housing that has been designed to further optimize the turbo for the 20V 1.8T allowing it to reach its highest efficiency range during normal operation. The result is nothing short of spectacular – an awesome breathing turbo and engine combination that likes to rev! In terms of performance, the GT2X (even though a non-ball bearing turbo) has the ability to start building boost right off idle speeds with more than 200 ft/lb of torque available from 2500 rpm all the way to redline, giving it the feeling of a powerful V8. This turbo, with its modern GT wheel aerodynamics, has the unique ability to make boost “now” and not make any qualms about holding the boost to redline.
Have no fear about this turbo going KKKaboom. The GT2X turbo shaft is at least 25% larger than any K03/K04 turbo and since this turbo can provide peak HP without going outside of its peak efficiency range, it will not be forced to run at the reliability limits. This turbo happily makes a reliable 275 crank HP on pump gas and close to 300 crank HP on high octane."
cupra_matt
04-04-2007, 18:39
Robdon. Did you get it mapped again to up the boost or just adjust the Apexi?
Have you had it back on the rollers?
ps: just got the hard pipe kit, looks good. Thanks
Just adjusted the Apexi, I will have it back on the dyno again soon as I'm curious to see what it's putting out now.
cuprabaz
05-04-2007, 07:50
Matt could you let me know if the 3" hard pipe fits or can be made to fit the mk3. cheers mate.
Here's what I did ... the ATP inlet kit is a bit of a nightmare, the cast oval pipe under the shifter cables etc., I did try and fit it, I got it all in but a metal water pipe is right in the way and it was jammed against the left shifter cable, which meant I couldn't get the car into gear, so out it all came again!
Star had already fitted a steel plate with 4 holes in it, which moved the shifter cables 2-3 inches away from the turbo entry - I refitted that and found that an ATP 2.5-3.0" high temp rubber elbow fitted in the gap nicely. The GT2X entry is not 2.5" so I used the ATP adapter collar (machined collar with seal and grub screw to secure it on the outside), then the 2.5-3.0" elbow was a good, tight fit. Looking down into the pipe it looks like:
http://www.rd20vturbo.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/images/engine/turboentry.jpg
Not ideal but offers alot more airflow and room compared to the 225 hose. The elbow is this one:
http://www.atpturbo.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=ATP-SIL-240&Category_Code=SIL-90EL
The rest was easy, 3" hardpipe fits in the rest of the way up, it's a little short so I used a 76mm alloy joiner to lengthen it. As you can see, it comes up here and from there it's just a silicone coupler onto the ATP hardpipe bend towards the MAF.
http://www.rd20vturbo.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/images/engine/turboentry2.jpg
When you compare it to the 225 hose the bottom half is at least an inch wider right down to the turbo, my butt dyno tells me it has really helped too, the Astra VXR I recently destroyed is testament to that! ;)
http://www.rd20vturbo.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/images/misc/hose1.jpg
Here's some pics of it all fitted and complete:
http://www.rd20vturbo.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/images/engine/hp1.jpg
http://www.rd20vturbo.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/images/engine/hp2.jpg
http://www.rd20vturbo.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/images/engine/hp3.jpg
ATP told me that the 225 hose was too restrictive and that a larger intake would yield better results, I now believe them 100%, so if you're getting a GT2X don't bother with the 225 hose. So in summary the bits I used to get this inlet together were:
ATP GT2X inlet collar adapter
ATP 2.5-3.0" high temp rubber elbow
ATP 3" inlet kit
3" alloy hose joiner
Steel mounting plate with 4 holes to move shifter bracket away from turbo.
I bought everything directly from ATP, the 3" inlet kit cost me Ģ180 including shipping from the USA and arrived in 3 days - my tuner wanted Ģ300 for the same kit!!!
Hope this info and pics helps. :)
David_smith_909
05-04-2007, 11:32
good writeup robdon, just by looking at your pics you can see how the 3" inlet would have much better airflow capablities over the 225 version
cuprabaz
05-04-2007, 11:40
Nice one rob spot on. Do you have any pics of the steel plate fitment and a pic of the engine bay from the top.
I'm away at the moment and can't visualise where the plate would go.
cheers
The flat plate is under the factory bracket that holds the shifter cables in place, the plate is bolted to the mounting holes on the gearbox and the bracket is then bolted to the plate, the plate is roughly 4 inches x 5 inches. I'll try and photograph it but not much room down there!
OK, managed to snap the plate, it's nothing special, the left-hand bolts mount the plate to the 'box, the right-hand bolts hold the bracket in place.
http://www.rd20vturbo.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/images/engine/shift.jpg
I estimate 2 inches the cables are moved by. Shifting is still nice and smooth, no problems with that.
cupra_matt
05-04-2007, 19:35
Matt could you let me know if the 3" hard pipe fits or can be made to fit the mk3. cheers mate.
I haven't got the 3" pipe, just bought the 2.5" hardpipe from Robdon.
Also just ordered a mahoosive open Cotton Green cylindrical filter.
So S3/LCR Forge tip and BMC CDA will be for sale soon. ;)
wild willy
05-04-2007, 20:39
Nice one Rob, I've been fancying this mod for a while, ever since ATP brought them out for the eliminators. It makes sense and i'm sure its worth while. I have woundered why the inlet flange on my K04-023 turbo is so small and would surely benefit from more air. The standard tip is seriously floored going from a 70mm down to about 50mm.
Good work, and keep us posted with dyno data.
wild willy
06-04-2007, 00:12
Rob, where did you connect the N75, DV etc, as i fancy making my own up but have no solution for connecting these items back in to the DIY tip.
The 3" inlet kit comes with an extra pipe for connecting the N75 etc., that's why I bought the full kit and just adapted it, rather than trying to make a full DIY solution.
cuprabaz
06-04-2007, 11:21
Rob you got any pics of the TIP etc from the top so i can see the whole thing.
Cheers
Matt have you had your car mapped again??
sportuner
06-04-2007, 18:25
thank you very much RbDon, by the article ;)
cupra_matt
06-04-2007, 18:39
Rob you got any pics of the TIP etc from the top so i can see the whole thing.
Cheers
Matt have you had your car mapped again??
Nope, i sent the ECU back to STAR as i wasn't happy cause there was a load setting fault causing the car to take off on its own.
But not remapped, i currently thinking of going to Jabba to get a remap done, but iam gonna wait till i get thios hard pipe TIP and new filter on it, then gonna up the boost to 1.4 BAR like Robdon has done.
But since fitting Aquamist with medium sized jet running 20% methanol the car is flying, very very quick. I can't tell you how pleased i am with it, so if this pipe makes a difference the ROCK ON. :D
Rob you got any pics of the TIP etc from the top so i can see the whole thing.
Barry, this pic shows the top of the ATP 3" hardpipe bend which comes up from the turbo and bends towards the MAF, and the additional pipe coming off it to the DV:
http://www.rd20vturbo.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/images/engine/hp1.jpg
It's all just hardpipes and silicone couplers, I'm not using an N75 so it's not plumbed into the small pipe.
cuprabaz
11-04-2007, 11:19
Crail this weekend anyone??
sportuner
05-05-2007, 19:34
I do not understand where this piece in gt2x locates, somebody could put a pic or explain me a little
http://www.awesome-gti.co.uk/images/atpturbopipe1.jpg
That's part of the 3" inlet kit, the cast oval pipe fits under the shifter cables.