View Full Version : LPG conversion
Ok, i have finally decided to go for an LPG conversion, i am probably going to go for an LPG excusive conversion so that my car never runs on petrol again!,
Just wondered if anyone had any useful info or hints or tips to give that might help me,
I have been quoted £1400 for a 3rd generation direct injection LPG system for the Leon and will be replacing the petrol tank with a large lpg cylinder and also fitting a donut tank in place of the spare wheel which should give me a 400 mile range between fill ups,
I will have recovered the cost of the conversion within 4 months and after that will be saving between £350-400 per month on fuel!!
Is the Leon on the government grant scheme yet?
Nope, and it never will be cos its way too powerful!, they only put sensible economical cars on the list as far as i can see:confused:
That can't be right ~ they have 4.6V8 Range Rover conversions FFS.
As I understand it.... anything can be approved if it is put through the relevant testing.
This obviously costs wonga.......but would be worth talking to an official body - if a number of folks got it done and shared testing costs, I think you would then all get rebates.
Don't go on my word though.....speak to someone from the rebate agency.
I'd be interested to know how powerful the car is when running on LPG. Don't suppose they quote acceleration/top speed figures after the LPG conversion!
Instead of LPG go for NOX instead.... should give you a nice boost in performance !:D
Ben
NOX would be nice!!, but i dont think the car would last as long as i want it to!
And my running costs would be even higher than they are now:eek: :eek: ,
But after the LPG conversion i will be getting it dyno'd and i already have a dyno for my car at the moment so you will all be able to see real world before and after results!!,
My car seems to be turning into a test car for a lot of things lately!!,
I was unaware of the range rover conversion!, i only concluded this from looking at the powershift register and seeing that a lot of the higher performance cars werent on it, I will look into it and see if the leon can be added
I just phoned the people at the powershift register up and they said if its not on the list then i cant have a grant!,
If i wanted it approved and did it myself then i would loose my car for 2-3 months and it would cost me £10,000 :eek: , so thats not an option,
The only other thing they said is that if seat believed there to be a commercial advantage to them getting it approved themselves then they could submit it, but i doubt they would increase there sales on leon cupras much by doing so, so they probably wont bother:(
.....And i just spoke to Seat uk and they said that they havent submitted it for type approval and they have no plans to do so for the forseable future, but they added that thats not to say that they dont condone gas conversion, its just that they havent seen much demand for it.
Which is mental ~ I only chose a TDI 'cos the 20VT was NOT on the grant list, and (at that time) LPG systems were not compatible with turbo applications.
Ar5e grapes.
The 3rd gen MAG conversion hasnt been around long!(only coversion that handles greater than 5psi boost as far as i know), looks like i am gonna be the guinea pig for this too!!
Originally posted by Mosser
Nope, and it never will be cos its way too powerful!, they only put sensible economical cars on the list as far as i can see:confused:
Well that seems to defeat the purpose a bit, the scheme is supposed to encourage us to convert from nasty polluting fuels to flower friendly ones.
You probably wouldn't get much back in a grant as the engine is most likely relatively green as it stands.
id seriously consult as to warranty implications mind as well , i know SEAT uk have no problems , mainly because they wont touch it ??
My car has currently got 50,000 miles on it and in about a months time it will be over 60,000 and i think that it is out of warranty after that anyway so it isnt a problem for me!
On the subject of waranties, in my customer care 3rd edition book (the one which explains the details of the waranty and breakdown cover) it says the car is covered by a 3 year unlimited mileage waranty ?
It then goes onto say that Hire vehicles are only covered for a maximum of 100,000 miles or 3 years which ever is sooner..
Can you confirm this unlimited mileage warranty Flapper ?
Just found a company that has done an LPG conversion on a modified subaru impreza turbo which is pushing out 260Bhp on LPG!!,
Gonna give them a ring tomorrow and see what its gonna cost me to convert over to it,
The best company i had found before that said they could only give me 160Bhp on my 15psi boost leon cos the maximum their LPG conversion would work to was 9psi and i couldnt see me dropping back to that amount of power after having upped it to 212 BHP!!, although they did say i could flick back to petrol each time i wanted extra power and then flick back again for economy but that sounded too fiddly for me!
Originally posted by RTV
On the subject of waranties, in my customer care 3rd edition book (the one which explains the details of the waranty and breakdown cover) it says the car is covered by a 3 year unlimited mileage waranty ?
It then goes onto say that Hire vehicles are only covered for a maximum of 100,000 miles or 3 years which ever is sooner..
Can you confirm this unlimited mileage warranty Flapper ?
originally on the older cars it was unlimited i think , (hire cars 100,000 limit ) latest stuff is all on 3 years 60,000 miles :(
what year was yours registered ?
Cupramax
13-11-2001, 13:45
Further to earlier posts re government subsidies for LPG mods not being available on Leon Cupra's...
All cars can now get the subsidy, policy has recently changed. Latest Topgear mag (December issue) has a small bit about it in the first few pages.:rolleyes:
My car is booked in for a preliminary check on my conversion now for tuesday next week so i will look into that subsidy again, but when i phoned the government agengy that hands them out i was told if its not on the list i cant have one!
Cupramax
14-11-2001, 13:58
Mosser,
Checked Topgear last night and its in the buying new section at the back. It had a contact number for the grants as well. Will dig it out later and post it here.....
PS hows yours behaved since the Upsolute upgrade? Any probs.... Mines in next Tuesday...:cheers:
Cheers for looking that up!, i will keep an eye out,
Mine has behaved impeccably, the power curve is smoother than ever now!, and the amont of go it has when you put your foot down in 6th at 100mph is almost scary!!, i got to 140 in what seemed like seconds today!!:eek: ,
let us know what you think of it when its done!, although i'm sure you will anyway!!:D
Cupramax
14-11-2001, 19:39
140!!!! Feck. Mine wouldn't do that if I drove it off a cliff at the moment. Runs out of steam at about 130...:p
Heres that number ... Government LPG Transport Action hotline number 0845 602 1425 :rolleyes:
Cheers for the number!, i will give them a ring in the morning nd see what they say!,
If your car is under 20-30,000 miles your engine is probably too tight to do that sort of speed, mine couldnt manage it till after 30,000 miles!:eek:
Scoobster
15-11-2001, 13:00
I am assuming we are talking indicated speedo speed here, as I know there is some error involved.
However, I have a standard Beeza Cupra and it has done 4500 miles and mine will quite happily cruise on up to 138-140. It isn't suppose to even do that, but I did say this was speedo indicated, so could well be a few mph under that.
I actually found I had to back off (was scared lol), but I feel the car had a bit more to give and would have pushed on another few mph if I had let it, and NO I wasn't driving down a 1 in 3 hill or off a cliff.. it was on a perfectly flat stretch of the M62 just after the M18 turn off (heading west).
It seemed to get up there fairly quick also, but I would expect it would be quite a bit slower than your beasty chipped 6 speed Leons.. still a sh*t scary ride.. those speeds are for loonies, I will stick to lower speeds and fast acceleration.. :)
cordobabrendy
15-11-2001, 17:19
damn straight,
Better 0-80 than top end methinks unless hockenhiem is next door...
11 inch steelies it is then!!:hammer:
So, how did the prelim check go on Tuesday Mosser?
All went well !, they checked the engine over and said that there shouldnt be any problems with their conversion, but recommended an additional oil drip feed to help keep the valves lubricated whilst running on gas (injected directly into the inlet manifold),
I have booked it in for the coversion for the 3rd december and it will take 4 days to convert and cost £1600 plus vat:eek:
They are looking at taking the old airbox out completely and fitting an induction kit in the front left wing to give me a bit of extra power as they asked if i wanted the setup optimised for power or economy!!(like they needed to ask that:D :D :D )
Will let you all know how it goes!!,
Oh, and i get to drive around in a shitty non turbo diesel escort for 4 days:mad: :( :confused:
I noticed a sticker under the bonnet warning that damage will occur to the cat if you over fill the engine with oil.
Presumably you will still keep the catalytic converter after the conversion ?
If this is the case then surely the additional oil drip feed will destroy the cat. Which will be costly come MOT time..
what i thought was that with the greatly reduced emissions from lpg was that u might be able to ditch cat. or for car like mine 2.0 8v, u could run wild cams and still keep within law :D
cordobabrendy
25-11-2001, 12:31
the lpg may reduce emissions and stuff but dont forget that under law if a car is fitted with a cat at time of manufacture then it must be present and fitted at mot time..
I think the cat does have to stay as Cordobabrendy said cos of the law,
But also the CEL would be comming on without it as i believe there are 2 sensors in it?, and without their reading the engine management could go into a failsafe lower power routine,
And with the oil drip feed system, i dont think it injects enough to damage the cat, 1 litre of oil will last me 2-3 months!! (12,000 miles)
Christ you cover some miles !
I know most cars can normally use some oil but my leon hasn't
used a drop after 14,000 miles. Has your car always used oil.
Dont forget that the oil drip feed will be in addition to your normal oil usage.
Is it normal to fit an oil drip feed with an LPG conversion? I thought all cars now had hardened vavle seats to make up for the lackof lead.
Have fun in that Diesel escort hehehe.
I do around 60,000 a year at the moment!!, 2 years ago i covered just over 80,000 in 1 year:eek: ,
My car has never drank any oil at all between services!,
The drip feed was only recommended because of the high boost pressures i am running, not sure why that makes a difference, although they may have recommended it because i told them i am hoping to get 250,000 miles out of this car!(3 years to go till my car expires!!)
TDi Dave
07-06-2002, 12:59
Has anyone looked at the lpg conversions available for TDi's ? As I'm looking to import a Leon TDi soon and do a highish mileage I'd be interested. One site (http://www.gasconversions.com) I found quotes
Up to 30% more power.
Up to 35% more torque.
Up to 30% better fuel economy.
Cleaner oil.
Up to 19% better fuel burn.
Majority of vehicles can be converted.
Installation takes less than 1 day.
I think it works by adding a lpg spray just before the inlet valve in a ratio of 1 part lpg to 3 diesel.
When was the last time you used that link?
According to the Home page banner, it looks like they no longer do Gas Conversions.
From the little knowledge I have you can not convert a Diesel, you have to buy a dual fuel from new, and it is only worth doing this if you are covering a lot of miles say 20000 plus a year.
Try these links for more info
http://www.lpga.co.uk/contents.htm
http://www.est-powershift.org.uk/
Cheers
Adding an LPG injection kit to your diesel will increase its power considerably, increase your MPG by 5-10 %, and drastically decrease the life of your engine,
If you intend to do high mileage stay away from it!, if you just want more power (more than a chip only can offer) do it,
Dont expect to recover your costs of the installation by way of fuel savings until you have covered at least 150,000 miles, and you'd be lucky to reach that anyway because of the very major increased stress on the engine components, expect a reskim of the head approx every 40,000 miles and a new head due to too many cracks in it every 70-80,000 miles.
It is a nice conversion and you wont get any smoke whatsoever under full power but dont expect it to save you money!
Cupramax
07-06-2002, 19:14
Hi Mosser. Haven't seen you on here for ages..... Did you get that damage sorted out OK?:)
TDi Dave
07-06-2002, 19:17
Hmmm...... this thread's warmed up a bit ! I know the url I posted earlier was no longer active but it seem to summarise the lpg diesel advantages well.
Ignore the link name for this one - www.spongecars.com (http://) (do they have a marketing dept ? ) and then click on 'Diesel LPG'. The car bit all looks fairly new and alot of the test results are geared to truck owners.
They have 'conduct(ed) numerous performance tests on a gas converted Vauxhall Cavalier 1.7 turbo diesel....' but the fuel consumption graph could do with a bit of marketing screed to sell them better. I can't see anywhere that would give a guarantee on the engine but do seem to have several endorsements inc. one from 'Wings Ambulance' in Bristol (Renault Traffic). Anyone know them and/or what size/type of diesel the Renault has ?
I've sent for a quote & I'll let you know the result.
P.S. I won't be rushing in to this as I've yet to order a car for Oct/Nov delivery - probably a Leon TDi 110 import when I can get a definite answer on what the new 16" alloys will be like.
davegeorge
08-06-2002, 19:26
i would be interested to see before/after mpg figures for the lpg conversion, my dad works for ford and they have tried lpg on some focus's there, they reckon they always lose about 10mpg when the car is converted which makes it not that much more economical?
dave
Jimmyboy
08-06-2002, 19:50
I was under the impression that any car could get a grant from the government so long as they met certain criteria, the main points being
the car is less than 3 years old
there must be a proven reduction in CO2 after it has been converted.
If there was no warranty implications I would have it done in a second.
"they reckon they always lose about 10mpg when the car is converted which makes it not that much more economical?"
Leave LPG well alone is what I say
LPG in a TDi - sounds scary to me:sick:
Hi Max,
Been very busy lately and not been on the internet much at all !, got my car damage finally sorted but still havent fixed that puncture i got on the way to the track day!!, and my N75 still needs tweaking to reduce the surging i'm getting, i am going to have to do it my self as Seat dealerships dont even seem to know that N75 is actually adjustable :o(,
I knew someone about a year ago that had an astra diesel with LPG injectors and he said that whilst it made it seriously quick he had already blown one head 10K after fitting it and it lowered his MPG too, but it was good fun to drive, he took me out in it and it was very quick, as fast as my 2.5l turbodiesel intercooled and chargecooled XM !!
TDi Dave
12-06-2002, 22:47
The quote for the lpg diesel conversion arrived Monday but I've not had chance to post it 'til now. Here it is....
'Many thanks for your LPG conversion enquiry. I am pleased to say that we can convert your Seat Leon for £1750 + vat. Our mechanics will fit a high specification, European standard LPG unit which is covered by a warranty of up to 3 years.
Following thorough tests, we have found that the diesel LPG conversion not only results in fuel savings between 30 - 50%, but also improves performance and reduces emissions.
** You should not confuse our system with other, less efficient, diesel LPG
units **
Test results can be found on our website:
www.ilovesponge.com/spongecars/diesel/dieseltestresults.htm (http://)
You can also read some of our customer endorsements:
www.ilovesponge.com/spongecars/diesel/conversionpics.htm (http://)
To proceed with the conversion or to discuss things further, please do not hesitate to call me.'
Interesting they don't mention any engine warranty.
Regards,
Dave
I am still not convinced, However it would be nice to prove me wrong!, the VW engine management in the cupras is seriously picky about its signals and the diesel engine management has similar tolerances,
The other thing you will find is that if you have a decent sized lpg tank fitted it will either take over a third of your boot, or you will have to leave your spare wheel at home,
and on petrol lpg conversions the range on a 50 litre tank is only about 170 miles which meant i was filling up anything up to 4 times a day!!:eek: