View Full Version : HKS SQV Blow off Valve ordered
Shock_Xe
08-01-2003, 13:21
I've gone and taken the plunge and ordered it!!!! It seems to work over on vwvortex on their jetta's and golf's 1.8T's so i though y not! and the dealer seems to think it will work so there we go!
Jimmyboy
08-01-2003, 13:54
How much and where from please mate?
Shock_Xe
08-01-2003, 14:02
£244 all in
http://www.g-force-motorsport.co.uk/HKS/hks_sequential_valve.htm
Let us know how you get on, I hope it works but unfortunately the evidence is that it wont. The fact is that if any air is lost (Dumped) instead of recirculated then the ECU readings will be put out and so it will try to compensate for the lost air. The net result is that it may 'appear' to be working fine.... everything may feel and sound OK but look at your exhaust a week or two later and it'll probably be totally black, evidence that the mixture isn't right.
Good luck though... I'd love to have a working BOV.
Cheers
Ben
Originally posted by Shock_Xe
£244 all in
http://www.g-force-motorsport.co.uk/HKS/hks_sequential_valve.htm
That's like 1/3 the value of my car.
total bargain I reckon
Shock_Xe
08-01-2003, 22:54
Originally posted by BenS1
everything may feel and sound OK but look at your exhaust a week or two later and it'll probably be totally black, evidence that the mixture isn't right.
Good luck though... I'd love to have a working BOV.
Cheers
Ben
Its black anyway :)
It seems to work on the jetta's/Gol's on VWvortex so it looks good. I been told its basically a more intricate GFB BOV so things are looking good. A dude on SE just fitted one and he says everything seems to be fine (standard though) so interesting to see.
I will also write up a review for the main site if any1 interested!!!!
Originally posted by BenS1
Let us know how you get on, I hope it works but unfortunately the evidence is that it wont. The fact is that if any air is lost (Dumped) instead of recirculated then the ECU readings will be put out and so it will try to compensate for the lost air. The net result is that it may 'appear' to be working fine.... everything may feel and sound OK but look at your exhaust a week or two later and it'll probably be totally black, evidence that the mixture isn't right.
Good luck though... I'd love to have a working BOV.
Cheers
Ben
rather than judging empirically and because a lot has been told about Blow off-valves to the point that none of us is really sure, Shock I would suggest you hook up with a VAG-COM and check the air-fuel ratio to see whether you will get rich mixture as would be expected or things indeed work fine. I have had people claiming they have managed to work fine with forge BOV with identical results on dynometer when using a DV.
Shock_Xe
08-01-2003, 23:34
Originally posted by beez
rather than judging empirically and because a lot has been told about Blow off-valves to the point that none of us is really sure, Shock I would suggest you hook up with a VAG-COM and check the air-fuel ratio to see whether you will get rich mixture as would be expected or things indeed work fine. I have had people claiming they have managed to work fine with forge BOV with identical results on dynometer when using a DV.
Got software and laptop, just no cable yet and DV has wiped me out financially
yes i see what you mean. to be honest..costs about the same money in Greece, now there is a suprise. usually everything here is more expensive. cable is an issue as is laptop without RS-232 (quite a lot of the new ones only have USB). USB version expected on february from what I remember.
just wondering, what is the final verdict on GFB BOV and chipped beezers?
Shock_Xe
08-01-2003, 23:50
Originally posted by beez
yes i see what you mean. to be honest..costs about the same money in Greece, now there is a suprise. usually everything here is more expensive. cable is an issue as is laptop without RS-232 (quite a lot of the new ones only have USB). USB version expected on february from what I remember.
just wondering, what is the final verdict on GFB BOV and chipped beezers?
in my case didnt work!
Shock,
cant believe you paid £244 for a "not quite compatible" thing after all the torture you've been through ;)
Shock_Xe
09-01-2003, 00:14
well gotta try. It might work!!! I really want it to work. I miss my GFB. Very boy racer but it is a reason i bought a turbo!
Pssssssssssssssssssshhhh.......
here ya go then
Jimmyboy
09-01-2003, 08:02
If anyone saw Revved Up the other week on ITV then you would have noticed one downside of a whooshy dump valve.....
Apparently you wont be able to pull those to ugly tarts as they dont like the noise!! :D
Originally posted by Jimmyboy
If anyone saw Revved Up the other week on ITV then you would have noticed one downside of a whooshy dump valve.....
Apparently you wont be able to pull those to ugly tarts as they dont like the noise!! :D
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
Its black anyway
It seems to work on the jetta's/Gol's on VWvortex so it looks good. I been told its basically a more intricate GFB BOV so things are looking good. A dude on SE just fitted one and he says everything seems to be fine (standard though) so interesting to see.
I will also write up a review for the main site if any1 interested!!!!
Thats the exact response I was expecting... it 'appears' to work, and everything 'seems' fine. My point is that it will look, feel and sound fine but if you actually actually use something like VAG-COM (As suggested by Beez) then you MAY find that the fuel air mixture is out!
The problem with this is that VAG-COM may actually give out false readings because the ECU itself is confused and thinks that it has correctly rebalanced the mixture and so VAGCOM would report a normal mixture... possibly the only real way to find out would be to stick a probe up your exhaust (Oooer!).
Cheers
Ben
ibizacupra
09-01-2003, 13:22
Originally posted by BenS1
The problem with this is that VAG-COM may actually give out false readings because the ECU itself is confused and thinks that it has correctly rebalanced the mixture and so VAGCOM would report a normal mixture... possibly the only real way to find out would be to stick a probe up your exhaust (Oooer!).
Cheers
Ben
With VAG-COM, you will be able to monitor actual A/F ratio via the cars own Lambdas.
Coping with transient airloss to atmosphere, post MAF is what will confuse the ECU.
(ECU thinks... I know I measured that air.... where did it go??? )
Good luck tho.
(remember some of these guys on Vortex are also unpluggin their MAF's and reporting gains too. Do you really want to mess with things like that is a question you would need to ask yourself if contemplating such mods?)
Bill
Shock_Xe
09-01-2003, 18:54
Got it fitted after a bitch of a job. Sounds soooooo sweeet. Like a rally car churps away. But..... Its fine on idling and plodding around town but as soon as i give it boost and dip the clutch the revs drop till it stalls!!!
I bunged it with old bosch DV and sealed exits. I was thinking of putting a breather filter on it!!! and maybe point the dv towards the filter so that it sucks in the air. I think its stalling cause bunged pipe. Will have a mess round and see over the weekend!
No engine check lights at the mo
Shock_Xe
09-01-2003, 22:50
my gfb was fine no probs!!!
My HKS is a different storey!
it idles standstill fine
Boosts fine and sounds great but:
It makes a smell (overfueling)
and as soon as i go into bost, dump it and keep clutch depressed it stalls. however if i let the car slow down through the gears then depress the clutch its fine.
1st impression Looks good, Sounds Great, wont work!!!!
Quick questions its got a bolt which i assume controls the idle (Jap instructions) will this help prevent stalling problem if i adjust it??
cheers
mike
Shock_Xe
10-01-2003, 13:01
My car is stalling and overfuelling (im gonna try the idle valve on dv when i got time) but can some1 explain why this happens on our engines as i dont really know why just that it does! (compared to other turbo cars which are usually fine)
Most Turbo cars don't recirculate the dumped air and just dump to atmosphere. The VAG ECUs in the VAG Turbo cars expect the air to be recirculated and so it doesn't matter which DV you buy, GFB, HKS anyone else, they are all going to confuse the ECU if they dump ANY air to atmoshpere.
The only hope is a DV that dumps to a recirc pipe as normal but gives us the whoosh anyway. A sort of whooshy recirc dump valve.
Cheers
Ben
Shock_Xe
10-01-2003, 14:12
I wonder if i could have a funnel on the end of dv connected to the recirc pipe so it dumps into the funnel-into the recirc pipe thus getting the air and still getting the noise?
Jimmyboy
10-01-2003, 14:14
Did you say your GFB one worked fine? Was this a whooshy one? How much do they cost?
Shock_Xe
10-01-2003, 15:48
Originally posted by Jimmyboy
Did you say your GFB one worked fine? Was this a whooshy one? How much do they cost?
Yeah fine no probs on my car when it was standard but it was part re-circ part atmos. Very subtle not loud like normal ones. £150 from
ttp://www.impossible-performance.cwc.net
Jimmyboy
10-01-2003, 15:52
But that part loss of air didnt have any bad effect on performance etc?
Shock_Xe
10-01-2003, 17:32
Only when car was chipped. As standard my car was getting 164bhp with that DV and hurricane induction kit (156standard) so no not in my case anyway
Jimmyboy
10-01-2003, 17:49
I like the sound of this one.
Even on a standard car the GFB must be confusing the ECU, but the effect is probably so small that you don't notice it. If you started with 2 identical Ibizas with shiney new exhausts and put a GFB (or HKS) on one and left the standard DV on the other then drove them around then you'd probably notice that the exhaust on the GFB car goes black before the one on the standard car, thereby indicating that the mixture isn't quite right (Coz the ECU is confused.). Other than that it probably feels fine and there would be little to no power difference on a RR dynoplot.
Cheers
Ben
Jimmyboy
11-01-2003, 16:26
If the mixtures aren't quite right does that mean that you are doing some (long term) damage to your car?
i ve now fitted a boost gauge to my beezer so I am getting much better understanding of what goes on. though i would just make some points:
a)wooshy sound, obviously the more boost the bigger the sound will be. therefore i would bet that a chipped can would make much more noise than a standard one
b) confused ECU- i think all of us have read the text book explanation on why the blow off valves do not work with our engine. however, i suspect what does not get into the explanation is whether the ECU actually needed the air that was expelled.
i.e under low load / low boost conditions, the air that is expelled by the ECU and which could cause problems because it has been measured by the air flow meter bla bla bla might not be required at all.
the smart thing about a GFB is to know when to behave under a BOV (low load) and when to behave like a DV. obviously they still have not got it right with highest boost pressures.
i think the HKS can also work as a part recilculating / part-bov type valve but may require some messing around to get it right.
to sum up i believe that the BOV will not always result in rich AFR.
suggest you go and fit a boost gauge, its lots of fun and tells you when to change gears for maximum noise effect:)
beez, sorry but I disagree... even if the ECU didn't NEED the recirculated air, it still expects it to be there and so if its not then it will bugger up the mixture. As for the long term effects... a lean mixture would likely kill the engine, but the GFB/HKS probably result in a rich mixture which will probably kill your cat with time. Not sure though.
The best bet would be for someone to actually change the ECU software so that it doesn't actually expect recirculated air... but this is probably more difficult to do than create a remap as the tuner would actually need to adjust the program and not just the data (ie. the maps).
Cheers
Ben
Originally posted by Shock_Xe
£244 all in
http://www.g-force-motorsport.co.uk/HKS/hks_sequential_valve.htm
£244 to make your car sneeze :lol: you've more money than sense
Originally posted by BenS1
beez, sorry but I disagree... even if the ECU didn't NEED the recirculated air, it still expects it to be there and so if its not then it will bugger up the mixture. As for the long term effects... a lean mixture would likely kill the engine, but the GFB/HKS probably result in a rich mixture which will probably kill your cat with time. Not sure though.
The best bet would be for someone to actually change the ECU software so that it doesn't actually expect recirculated air... but this is probably more difficult to do than create a remap as the tuner would actually need to adjust the program and not just the data (ie. the maps).
Cheers
Ben
ben what if you got more air into the filter box, the turbo would suck as much air as it needs being controlled by the wastegate. I still think that rich mixture will occur only under full loads, unless I am missing something.
shock any good news?from all the marketing promo it sounds like it might work. any luck yet?
Shock_Xe
12-01-2003, 10:59
Im having trouble keeping the pipe on as the universal fitting kit aint so universal! Also its keeps stalling but i havent had time to adjust the idle valve yet! (some1 on SE got his going without stalling.) so the only problem is the over fuelling! No error codes yet and done nearly 100 miles. Surely the ECU should recognize the over fueling and cut it back????? If the over fueling is fuc@ing the cat then ill get a decat pipe :) :)
how is that sound?got the boy racer within you happy?:)is it louddddddddd?
Shock_Xe
12-01-2003, 15:42
Originally posted by beez
how is that sound?got the boy racer within you happy?:)is it louddddddddd?
Ooooohhh Yeeeeaaahhhh!!!! Louder than i thought, reminds me of the chirp you get off rally cars with HUGE turbo's and u get them on some cossies/big jap motors!!! Very nice!
cmsmpau1
12-01-2003, 21:17
Originally posted by Shock_Xe
Ooooohhh Yeeeeaaahhhh!!!! Louder than i thought, reminds me of the chirp you get off rally cars with HUGE turbo's and u get them on some cossies/big jap motors!!! Very nice!
Was quite disapointed when i found out that you couldn`t fit a atmospheric dump valve on the 1.8T, but i think with time a recirculting atmospheric valve will be released.
Idea:
Blow out valve inside dumpvalve
Ecu readings would improve and if you could here the valve from inside the dumpvalve casings its problem solved.
Dont think it would be that easy.
Good luck anyway......
mmmm, just thought I point out the following: the reason that VAG use a DV rather than a dump valve I suspect is not because those darn German dont was us boy racers having fun with this awesome woosh sound. the main reason is it takes part in the low turbine lag characteristics of the design, the turbo is kept spooling etc....
pity they took all the fun away though:(
I think even a BOV that works will be a trade-off with some other feature.....
call me Mr Sceptical
Icecavern
14-01-2003, 08:14
Well IMO now I wouldn't touch another BOV at all, no matter what anyone says...
As some of you know I have been running a forge 004 BOV on my APR'd Leon for a few months now. I'd tried a GFB and that didn't work in chipped or standard, but after an afternoon with the forge 004 I managed to get it working. I was well chuft and the sound was fantastic... I could draw a swarm of people at any show and the boy racers thought twice with just the dab of the throttle... But I finally decided to swap back to the 007p recirc and see what difference it made, sure that I could say it was ok...
Well the car is completely different... The gear changes are smoother, the car doesn't jerk when you back off the throttle...
From my experience it's not when on full throttle that you have problems, because the valve stays closed then. It's when you back off and the air is allowed to escape. The turbine doesn't stall exactly but it slows down a lot more than with a recirc. So you get turbo lag and the quick loss of power immediately when you back off...
Oh and if you listen carefully to your BOV that you think is working and doesn't give you this problem... You might here a faint warbling sound?? ( On a Leon it's louder ;) ) well this means that it's NOT adjusted correctly and the wastegate is taking the strain... Start saving your £££
So basically I'm now a believer... Unfortunatley without a fully programmable aftermarket ECU, which means it doesn't expect a recirc, I don't personally think a BOV will ever work... Not without having a compromise somewhere...
It's a shame because I will miss the sound, I don't care what anyone says, YES I AM A RICER... :D But not if there's a chance it'll screw up my pride and joy.
Pete
shock check www.ecstuning.com they claim to have a working kit based on the HKS SSV for 1.8T. there is a faq there as well...
DV's without twin pistons can make cars with AFM - MAF stall. this is due to the valve opening when the car is at idle.
thank you Mr Einstein. :):)
why dont you read the FAQ as well. they claim to have got it working...
http://www.ecstuning.com/bovfaqpage.htm
Heh, from the popularity of this thread, if anyone does manage to get something working 100% of the time they'll be getting a few quid in.
I think the kid in us all wants a BOV ;)
Shock_Xe
15-01-2003, 21:50
Originally posted by beez
thank you Mr Einstein. :):)
why dont you read the FAQ as well. they claim to have got it working...
http://www.ecstuning.com/bovfaqpage.htm
already read it b4 i bought it hence the reason i bought it. A guy on SE has one from them and while it works, it still over fuels!!! Apparently beeza ECU's are more sensitive. Where as ECS are refering to Jetta's and golf's
Jimmyboy
16-01-2003, 11:06
What about getting the ECU from a Golf and puting that in your Seat? Would that work? Not too sure how practical this would be or the cost however!
Originally posted by Jimmyboy
What about getting the ECU from a Golf and puting that in your Seat? Would that work? Not too sure how practical this would be or the cost however!
You're getting into a lot of money just to get a valve that sounds cool :)
Carl