Which tyres?

[primekart]

Which tyre brand is the most suitable for the Ibiza's original 195/45/16 wheels?

I know that SEAT started with Michelin and than switched to Pirelli. Has anyone felt any difference?

Anyone has any experience with other brands that he can share with us??

[BenS1]

When did they switch from Michilin to Pirreli?
I bought my new Ibiza from Amethyst last month and it came with Michelins.

Ben

[Scoobster]

I bought my Beeza Cupra brand new in June I believe it was and it came with Pirelli P-Zero's.. check your manufacture date.

[Petrolhead Paul]

Originally posted by BenS1
When did they switch from Michilin to Pirreli?
I bought my new Ibiza from Amethyst last month and it came with Michelins.

Ben

I picked mine up the same day as Ben and mine had Pirelli, but it could have been built in a different batch.

Anyway Goodyear F1 are better than both.

[primekart]

Paul,

"Anyway Goodyear F1 are better than both"


Are you saying that out of your experience with all three of them? What is the difference?

[Scoobster]

I have Pirelli P-Zero's so I will comment on those..

They are a great 'dry' tyre..!! They are strong (kevlar strips), and they have a great deal of grip in the dry.
They are a little noisy on uneven surfaces, but that doesn't bother me too much.

In the wet.........

A different story... they are gash in the wet. If you plant your foot in wet conditions the tyres struggle to keep surefooted and the TCS spends a lot of time trying to balance the car. Don't even think about trying to drive in the wet without TCS on, unless you want to take a trip to 'hedge city' and I would suggest braking that second earlier coming up to the bend if the surface is wet, as they will aquaplane a lot if there is any standing water.

It is a shame as they are such a good dry tyre that I want to keep them... just wish the weather was better in the UK. For Israel I would guess they are perfect as they are indeed perfect in the dry.

I have heard however that the F1's are good tyres, and I know the Toyo's are a good tyre, as I had them on my last car.

[Petrolhead Paul]

Originally posted by primekart
Paul,

"Anyway Goodyear F1 are better than both"


Are you saying that out of your experience with all three of them? What is the difference?

Scoobster summed it up. Other people have mentioned the Pirelli being better than Michelin in the dry, but not in the wet.
Goodyear F1 largely acknowledged as one of the best all round performance tyres (for dry and wet use) apart from v. expensive Bridgestones S02s.
Toyo Proxes meant to be pretty good as well.

[ibizacupra]

Originally posted by Petrolhead Paul


Scoobster summed it up. Other people have mentioned the Pirelli being better than Michelin in the dry, but not in the wet.
Goodyear F1 largely acknowledged as one of the best all round performance tyres (for dry and wet use) apart from v. expensive Bridgestones S02s.
Toyo Proxes meant to be pretty good as well.

Goodyear Eagle F1's are my benchmark tyres. Superb all round performance wet or dry and durable too. These are what I sprint on.
Pirelli Assymetrico things on mine as standard were rubbish in all respects... Now consigned to sit in the garage.
My Eagle F1's gave better lap times than Dunlop Moulded Slicks in X11 compound. Bad for Dunlops (and me - they cost the earth) but good for Eagle F1's. :D
Bill

[primekart]

I agree with Scoobster about thr Pirelli Assimetrico in the wet...
Israel has a dry climate most of the year with lots of dust! But in the winter we get some rain. Problem is that every rain is like "the first rain" when the oil and the dust turns to slime on the roads. In that conditions the Pirellis were quite a scare to drive with!

[Nac1975]

I'm now looking for two new front tyres after nearly 14.000 miles.
Do Goodyear make an F1 in 195/45/16 ? the web site says no and dealers don't seem to stock them!
Which ones out of Pirelli P Zero, Michelin Pilot exalto (standard ones were Mich SXGT) or Yokohama A539 ?

[hopkinsgm]

Originally posted by Nac1975
I'm now looking for two new front tyres after nearly 14.000 miles.
Do Goodyear make an F1 in 195/45/16 ? the web site says no and dealers don't seem to stock them!
Which ones out of Pirelli P Zero, Michelin Pilot exalto (standard ones were Mich SXGT) or Yokohama A539 ?

I think you'll find that the Pilot SX GT's are no longer made - I can't say i'll miss them, i've got a set of 195/45R16's on 20VT wheels on my 8v - not a bad tyre in the dry, but have had a few 'moments' in the wet.

As for what tyres are standard fit, there seems to be little logic in Seat's madness on this - when I bought my 8v, I was looking at the (then) 3 reasonably local dealers each of whom had one in stock. One had Michelin Pilot SX GT's, one had Continentals (can't remember tread pattern, but it was 2 years ago) and the one I bought had Pirelli P6000's which seemed to be a fine tyre in the 185/55R15 size (if a bit on the soft side), but i've heard some of the Leon boys don't rate them. Avon make some fine tyres in the standard 195/45R16 size, which I may consider when I kill the Michelins.

I'd advise against Uniroyals, i've tried them on a couple of VW's and know people who've had them on Seats and no-one seems impressed. They're great on lighter weight cars, but certainly at the front end of a VAG car, they just seem to understeer like crazy.

Glyn

[Petrolhead Paul]

I quite rate Continentals, they wear fairly quickly but nice progressive grip (although ultimate limit lower than F1s and they squeal more) and very good steering feel. I guess they are a slightly softer compound tyre. They do them in 195/45x16

[hopkinsgm]

Just as an aside, I found this on the Michelin website - it seems to fly in the face of common practice, but thought some of you might be interested. Incidentally, the Pilot SXGT was officially discontinued February 2000, and replaced by the Pilot Exalto.

"Whether your vehicle is front-wheel drive or rear-wheel drive, we recommend that new tyres be fitted to the rear axle. This will ensure that vehicle stability is maintained in extreme conditions of braking and cornering, especially on wet or slippery roads.

Numerous tests have shown that it is generally easier to control the front axle than the rear axle.

If the front tyres skid, the driver momentarily loses control of his steering. The action that should be taken to regain control is to lift the foot from the accelerator and to turn the steering wheel into the direction of the bend. This manoeuvre will help vehicle control to be regained.

On the other hand, should control be lost on the rear axle, the situation is much more difficult to control, because this leads to oversteer. In order to regain control of the vehicle, the driver should turn the steering away from the direction of the bend. An experienced driver would also find that gentle deceleration would also help gain control.

This is why Michelin recommends that you limit the risk of this happening by fitting new or the least worn tyres to the rear. This will enable:

· improved grip when cornering
· vehicle stability when braking
· additional vehicle safety"

So there you go...

Glyn

[djawol]

Originally posted by hopkinsgm

(snipped informative post)


Driven I think, did a test on a Corsa 1.2 with new tyres on the front/back in the last series. When braking on a wet corner with worn rears and new fronts the Corsa oversteered into an uncontrollable spin. With new rears it was easy for the driver to control it. So there you go....

Andy

[hopkinsgm]

Originally posted by Nac1975
...Do Goodyear make an F1 in 195/45/16 ?...

Sadly not. there's a 205/45R16 fitment which you could use without it throwing the rolling radius out too much but you'd need to change your wheels - a 205 tread width is a bit wide for a 6J rim, so you'd need a rim between 6.5J & 7.5J.

I've been looking around at tyres manufacturer websites a wee bit myself this morning and it seems that 195/45R16 is a pretty obscure size, almost as bad as the 185/55R15's my 8v came with...

Glyn

[djawol]

Originally posted by hopkinsgm


I've been looking around at tyres manufacturer websites a wee bit myself this morning and it seems that 195/45R16 is a pretty obscure size, almost as bad as the 185/55R15's my 8v came with...


Hasn't Alex "Daves Mum" French got Goodyear F1's on his Beezer or has he got aftermarket alloys on?

Andy

[hopkinsgm]

Originally posted by djawol
Hasn't Alex "Daves Mum" French got Goodyear F1's on his Beezer or has he got aftermarket alloys on?

I don't know what rubber young Mr. French's car is wearing, although I do recall hearing he'd trashed the front Pirelli's... Anyway, Goodyear don't list 195/45R16 as a manufactured size on any of the online info pages i've found. 205/45R16 COULD be squashed onto standard wheels (6Jx16) but the rim is really too narrow - it should be 6.5Jx16 to 7.5Jx16 for that tyre size...

[cordobabrendy]

i have 205/45 16's pirellis on the front of my standard 16 alloys, still have the original 195/45/16 sx/gt's on the back, wheels dont look much different except in tyrewall design ie name of manufacturer, and rim protector. wheels were used in curborough trackday and were given a little bit of punishment, as anyone else who attended will vouch for, the tyres never felt uncomfortable or anything. the only gripe i had about them was the fact they were brand spanking new that week so there was loads of smoke and screeching!!! but then thats not all bad is it?:devil:

[ibizacupra]

Originally posted by cordobabrendy
i have 205/45 16's pirellis on the front of my standard 16 alloys, still have the original 195/45/16 sx/gt's on the back, wheels dont look much different except in tyrewall design ie name of manufacturer, and rim protector. wheels were used in curborough trackday and were given a little bit of punishment, as anyone else who attended will vouch for, the tyres never felt uncomfortable or anything. the only gripe i had about them was the fact they were brand spanking new that week so there was loads of smoke and screeching!!! but then thats not all bad is it?:devil:

Is'nt having wider tyres on the front than rear illegal?
I thought I had heard that somewhere.

Goodyear Eagle F1's Rock.
Got a brand spaking new set on me beezer now :)
205-45ZR16 on 7.5J rims
Bill

[Mosser]

I hope not!, cos i'm now running 225's on the front and 205's on the rear!!:eek:

[cordobabrendy]

think they are only illegal if they protrude and sit out from the side of the car,
not 100% though....not very noticeable any way!! you would have to stop the car and check the writing on the wheels.

[kewe]

I thought my front tyres (original Pirelli p-zeros) were looking a bit doomed for tread, but my dealer has just checked them at its 10K service and says there's still 6mm left on the fronts and 7mm on the rears. Anybody know how many more miles I should get out of them at this rate before they're down to 1.6mm minimum?

[hopkinsgm]

Originally posted by kewe
Anybody know how many more miles I should get out of them at this rate before they're down to 1.6mm minimum?

Tricky one that - the majority of tyre wear (in treaded tyres) is caused by flexing of the blocks that form the tread pattern. Because the blocks start tall and become shorter as they wear down, they flex less on a worn tyre and so the wear rate decreases... Put simply, the first mm of wear will will happen far quicker than the last mm.

As for how much longer your tyres have left, change them when they stop gripping, not when they hit the tread wear indicators at the 1.6mm legal minimum. By 1.6mm, any performance tyre will be well and truly f*cked.

[ibizacupra]

Originally posted by cordobabrendy
think they are only illegal if they protrude and sit out from the side of the car,
not 100% though....not very noticeable any way!! you would have to stop the car and check the writing on the wheels.

I'd check with an MOT station as this is where I heard it some while ago (memory fading):D
You never know when a spot check might happen, and some anally attentive Rosser might wish to make a point.
I agree with the carlos fandango sticky out wheel thing though.;)

Bill

[Scoobster]

Surely it can't be illegal to have different sized tryes?

If so there are going to be a lot of Diablo drivers very peeved that they are getting stopped for illegal tyres and not fo doing 170mph on the motorway..!! lmao.

I would guess it is the 'if they stick out from the side of the car' thing.. which is also a good thing, as I think that anyone who has that style of huge sticky out wheel thing (seen on some modded nova's n stuff round here and in max power), then they should be rounded up and shot @ dawn..

Tractor wheels on the back.. pram wheels on the front.. leather bound button as a steering wheel... that kind of thing.. hehehe

[hopkinsgm]

Originally posted by Scoobster
Surely it can't be illegal to have different sized tryes?
I have a couple of mates with kit cars who are (understandably) a bit more knowledgeable than most about what will pass an MOT and what won't. I'll ask them tonight.

I don't think wider rears are a problem but wider fronts may be an issue for similar reasons as that thing I posted off the Michelin website way up this thread the other day about sticking your worn tyres on the front axle - more grip at the front tends to lead to any skids you should get into being unrecoverable...

[ibizacupra]

Originally posted by Scoobster
Surely it can't be illegal to have different sized tryes?

If so there are going to be a lot of Diablo drivers very peeved that they are getting stopped for illegal tyres and not fo doing 170mph on the motorway..!! lmao.


Its not that the front rears are different sizes, as there are a load of cars, including Porsche's that would have a problem. I thought it was the fronts being wider than the rears.

anyone got an MOT guideline/rule book?

regards
Bill

[ibizacupra]

Originally posted by hopkinsgm


Tricky one that - the majority of tyre wear (in treaded tyres) is caused by flexing of the blocks that form the tread pattern. Because the blocks start tall and become shorter as they wear down, they flex less on a worn tyre and so the wear rate decreases... Put simply, the first mm of wear will will happen far quicker than the last mm.

As for how much longer your tyres have left, change them when they stop gripping, not when they hit the tread wear indicators at the 1.6mm legal minimum. By 1.6mm, any performance tyre will be well and truly f*cked.

Also a point to mention is the tyre rubber construction is not all of the same compound runner throughout the depth of rubber either. another changeable!
Modern High Performance Silicon based tyres have blends of rubber within the construction - Says the Pirelli rep I listened to earlier this year at a Protyre Open evening.
Bill

[cordobabrendy]

its pretty hard to tell on my cordy , cause as you all know most seats have a wideer front end than the back end, and the tyres get swallowed up by the arches anyroads, will be putting 205/45 onto the back when the michis are knackered, just to even things up a bit, though steering never felt so good as it is now!! especially with a lil bit of a scrub down at curby.

[hopkinsgm]

OK folks - have asked mates with kit cars and checked an MoT rules and regs book and as I (amongst others) thought, you WON'T pass a UK MoT test with wider tyres on the front than you have on the rear. Probably to do with the fornt/rear grip issue, along similar lines to that Michelin article I posted.

If you want to stay legal, you could stick the wider tyres on the rear until you get 205's all round and then there would be no problem (apart from 205's being a bit wide for a 6J rim). While the handling may be lovely whilst all is good, if you should start to skid for whatever reason, it'll be f*ck loads harder to catch the rear end back with skinny tyres at the rear (anyone else who was at Alconbury in the summer remember Mr Phelps antics?). So there you have it. Aside from anything else, if you put the 195 Michelins on the front, you'll kill them off sooooooo much quicker too! :D

[ibizacupra]

Originally posted by hopkinsgm
OK folks - have asked mates with kit cars and checked an MoT rules and regs book and as I (amongst others) thought, you WON'T pass a UK MoT test with wider tyres on the front than you have on the rear. Probably to do with the fornt/rear grip issue, along similar lines to that Michelin article I posted.

If you want to stay legal, you could stick the wider tyres on the rear until you get 205's all round and then there would be no problem (apart from 205's being a bit wide for a 6J rim). While the handling may be lovely whilst all is good, if you should start to skid for whatever reason, it'll be f*ck loads harder to catch the rear end back with skinny tyres at the rear (anyone else who was at Alconbury in the summer remember Mr Phelps antics?). So there you have it. Aside from anything else, if you put the 195 Michelins on the front, you'll kill them off sooooooo much quicker too! :D

Ahhhh Bisto !
I knew I was'nt losing the plot! ;)

Memories fading...:D

Anyone going to the Mallory track day next Tuesday? I am :D :D
In the Jetta this time!
Bill
:)