View Full Version : Brembo Disks - New Crossdrilled option
ibizacupra
12-01-2003, 20:23
I have just fitted a new set of Factory fitment Ibiza-R Brembo disks, 305x28, to my own motor for trials.
They are a Cross Drilled version of the factory plain disk.
Picture here>> http://www.badger5.demon.co.uk/bin/cross-drilled-brembo-disk.jpg
and mounted here>> http://www.badger5.demon.co.uk/bin/cross-drilled-brembo-wheel.jpg
CNC machined for ensured accuracy of hole placement.
+£60(pair) option on top of Disk Price for this cross drilling.
96 x 6mm holes.
http://www.badger5.demon.co.uk/bin/cross-drilled-brembo-disk.jpg
Added cooling (needed IMHO being solid not bell mounted disks) and reduced weight.
regards
Bill
Lucky_32
12-01-2003, 20:31
Mmmmmmmm, the icing on the cake.
V interested...
:D
Im confused,
is it a standard X drilled disc you got from brembo and had the stud pattern and wot not CNC'd onto it or got a standard SEAT disc and had the X drilled CNC'd:confused:
ibizacupra
12-01-2003, 20:39
It is the Factory Supplied Brembo fitment disk (305x28) and it has been CNC Cross Drilled.
(Like Zimmerman do to their 280 disks.)
regards
Bill
Lucky_32
12-01-2003, 20:43
Bill,
Having had my disks for about 1500 (carfully driven :D) miles would they cross drill them? Or do they only supply new?
I was thinking I could buy a new set get the old ones skimmed and drilled.
;)
ibizacupra
12-01-2003, 20:52
Originally posted by Lucky_32
Bill,
Having had my disks for about 1500 (carfully driven :D) miles would they cross drill them? Or do they only supply new?
I was thinking I could buy a new set get the old ones skimmed and drilled.
;)
I would say new disks mate.
Skimming is'nt something I would want to do tho really.
regards
Bill
Lucky_32
12-01-2003, 20:58
No prob's.
Eventually I'll have enough spare parts to build another car :D
ibizacupra
12-01-2003, 21:01
Originally posted by Lucky_32
No prob's.
Eventually I'll have enough spare parts to build another car :D
Me 3..
Opps. I have 2 other cars!
ARSE!
Bill
:D
Jimmyboy
13-01-2003, 08:03
Originally posted by ibizacupra
I have just fitted a new set of Factory fitment Ibiza-R Brembo disks, 305x28, to my own motor for trials.
They are a Cross Drilled version of the factory plain disk.
Picture to follow, when I get my digicam lead back.
CNC machined for ensured accuracy of hole placement.
+£60(pair) option on top of Disk Price for this cross drilling.
96 x 6mm holes.
Added cooling (needed IMHO being solid not bell mounted disks) and reduced weight.
regards
Bill
How much to the factory discs cost?
ibizacupra
13-01-2003, 08:21
From memory they're approx £50 each...
(memory fade)
regards
Bill
Jimmyboy
13-01-2003, 08:24
£50 each sounds quite reasonable. When I had an Alfa Romeo 155 the front standard discs were £170 the pair!!
I just realised I asked how much the "dicks" cost!!! I'd better edit that quick before people get the wrong idea!
ibizacupra
13-01-2003, 08:43
Originally posted by Jimmyboy
I just realised I asked how much the "dicks" cost!!! I'd better edit that quick before people get the wrong idea!
*cough* :p
Made me smile.
:laff:
Dormouse
13-01-2003, 12:28
less disc to stop ya! :D
on a serious note though, I wondered that if the calipers and discs sit so far into the wheel space, is the cross drilling really going to cool the discs a useful amount more?
Having had a look under the car i can see a few options for brake cooling ducts and tubing which may beeven more effective.
Can't see if the discs are countersunk either (to avoid cracking probs)
Dor (Friction Rodent)
Do they do grooved disks? I want the additional cooling but I (And several other people I know) have had a lot of problems with drilled disks cracking.
Cheers
Ben
Dormouse
13-01-2003, 12:33
at the autoport showe Brembo where showing some half circle type groves discs.
It was my understanding that groved discs are not any cooler, but remove the brake dust by use of centerfugal force.
Dor.
I'm sure grooved disks are meant to be cooler because they have a greater surface area to disipate the heat and channels for the heat to flow down even when then pads are clamping the disks. As for brake dust, I can't say I've heard of any problems with dust staying on a normal flat disk... sticking to your wheels yes, but not the disks.
Cheers
Ben
According to the book I lent to Glyn on Friday - the only point in drilling holes in the disc is if you blow air thru the disc which makes sense
trouble is - where from?
Mark
Both grooves and drilling will increase the surface area of the disk which means that the heat can disipate more quickly.... on the other hand the actual area that the pads contact the disks is reduced and therefore ultimately the stopping power is reduced slightly.... the question is does the benefit of the extra heat disipation outweight the lost contact area? The answer is probably yes, else they wouldn't use them in motorsports, where they have probably done extensive testing and comparisions.
Cheers
Ben
many rally cars etc & TOCA for sure use grooved
you do need to blow air around them else the cooling can't work
I'll see if i can find some pics - but brake ducts are available from tweeks
Try this link Ben
http://www.shotimes.com/brakes/part2.html
Drilled brakes only work if you push air thru/around them
it makes sense if you think about it - you have an amount of air in the hole, this is spinning - outside the hole there is lower pressure - but you can't pull the air in the hole from both sides as it will cause a vacuum - therefore you just need to introduce air somehow to the wheel arch pointed in the vague direction of the discs
ibizacupra
13-01-2003, 14:34
Cross Drilled holes are slightly countersunk yes.
As for cracking, under very hard sustained use it is possible in time.
My Zimmerman 280 cross drilled disks cracked after 2 years track work. For their price however they're disposable.
Keep an eye on them and no worries.
There is absolutely no reduction in braking effort believe me :D Better than before, by nature of being new and just bedded in.
Only time will tell, but as peeps who know me would say..... I will be "testing" them to extremes.
For the price its worth a punt.
Porsche disks are all cross drilled remember. (not saying these are Porsche spec disks cos they're not, but then again they don't cost Porsche money either)
I discussed grooves with my friend also and this is feasable. Pattern along the lines of Pagid Fast Road series spiral grooves.
There are also 2 alternative pads for fast road/track day use available from Pagid. Not cheap however. (upwards of £140/set)
I hope to get a set of these on test ASAP to see how well they work.
regards
Bill
ibizacupra
13-01-2003, 14:36
Originally posted by Dormouse
at the autoport showe Brembo where showing some half circle type groves discs.
It was my understanding that groved discs are not any cooler, but remove the brake dust by use of centerfugal force.
Dor.
Grooved disks help to deglaze pads as well as disperse brake dust.
G88 Tarox act like very good cheese graters :p (88 grooves!)
Bill
what's the pad height of the Pad used in the R?
Cheers
Mark
ibizacupra
13-01-2003, 15:43
Originally posted by MarkP
what's the pad height of the Pad used in the R?
Cheers
Mark
Overall thickness from new is 14mm
(how sad am I eh for knowing that - :p )
Why do you ask?
Bill
not the thickness - the height - to work out the swept area - am trying to come up with some sums to work out by how much it'll cool by but need to work out the braking area.
for instance did you know that the holes are 2714.34mm^2?
sad, but reckon there are heat transfer calcs to be worked out
Dormouse
13-01-2003, 17:42
Bill EBC said they do some 80 quid red stuff pads for trackday use that warm up from cold well.
As for getting some on test...well...you know seconds opinions are always good :D
Cheers
Dor.
P.S Sent you a PM but havent checked to see if you replied yet.
hopkinsgm
13-01-2003, 18:03
Originally posted by BenS1
...I want the additional cooling but...
No no no Ben - you're missing the point of machined discs.
The commonly accepted reasoning is different for drilled and grooved discs. Drilling is generally considered better for gas dispersal as temperatures get up and the pad starts to vapourise, leaving a cushion of gas between pad and disc (not good for friction). Grooving is usually considered better for removing the pad surface glazing that can form when temperatures get up a bit - by shaving the surface of the pad as you brake this should never reach problem levels, but you do tend to wear your pads out faster.
Cooling is why we have vented discs...
Lucky_32
13-01-2003, 19:09
Originally posted by Dormouse
less disc to stop ya! :D
on a serious note though, I wondered that if the calipers and discs sit so far into the wheel space, is the cross drilling really going to cool the discs a useful amount more?
Having had a look under the car i can see a few options for brake cooling ducts and tubing which may beeven more effective.
Can't see if the discs are countersunk either (to avoid cracking probs)
Dor (Friction Rodent)
I had some cross drilled disks many years ago for my Triumph spitfire - made a big improvement from standard and I had spacers on that too. I would have though a fiar bit of turbulence is created by the spinning holes disks - what has that kids toy with the two strings? (not a yoyo)
I was sat in work today thinking about ducts for cooling too.
ibizacupra
13-01-2003, 19:54
Originally posted by MarkP
not the thickness - the height - to work out the swept area - am trying to come up with some sums to work out by how much it'll cool by but need to work out the braking area.
for instance did you know that the holes are 2714.34mm^2?
sad, but reckon there are heat transfer calcs to be worked out
Inner diameter which is swept is 162mm, outside is 304mm
Pad dims is approx 120mm wide x 43mm tall
regards
Bill
ibizacupra
13-01-2003, 19:57
Originally posted by Dormouse
Bill EBC said they do some 80 quid red stuff pads for trackday use that warm up from cold well.
Hmmm.
EBC eh?
:sick:
Been there. Not red ones I admit, but I just don't have faith in their products having tried the Greens.
Bill
robt has tried the reds, and he wasnt keen on them at all, they certainly didnt bite from cold.
ibizacupra
14-01-2003, 08:07
Originally posted by Saul
robt has tried the reds, and he wasnt keen on them at all, they certainly didnt bite from cold.
Is'nt RobT on Hawke's now?
Can't remember...
Bill
Originally posted by ibizacupra
Is'nt RobT on Hawke's now?
Can't remember...
Bill
He's using Wilwood Polymatrix D.
Altho i might change to a grooved disc next time round to keep the pad clean as i drive mine everyday.
ibizacupra
14-01-2003, 11:03
Originally posted by Saul
He's using Wilwood Polymatrix D.
Altho i might change to a grooved disc next time round to keep the pad clean as i drive mine everyday.
"click"
Penny drops!
I remember him saying that now.
cheers Saul
regards
Bill
Originally posted by ibizacupra
"click"
Penny drops!
I remember him saying that now.
cheers Saul
regards
Bill
:) You had any more thought on those tyres Bill? I realise now i will need a new/2nd hand set of 7x16 if i want to run them. Should be worth it tho.
Afternoon gents
EBC reds have given me a touch of the soily pants on a couple of occasions - awful pads IMO, not suitable for a road car as absolutely no bite from cold - very dangerous for the road.
I have a set of Hawk Black pads which are ace hot or cold but VERY agressive and metallic - eat the disks up and cover the car and wheels in brown dust that wont come off, basically metal particles that oxidise immediately to brown - hob cleaner was found to be the only thing to bring it off paintwork. Not a 'preferable' option for the long term.
Latest are Wilwood poly D's - very nice, bite from cold and never had fade yet (not trying hard enough obviously !) good feel, should work well with the disks as both are wilwood. One set lasted 11 trackdays last year and perhaps 25% left on pads - changed them anyway for this year. Good price - £70 for 4 pads delivered and vatted from Rally Design.
We should speak again about the tyre thing - bulk discount and all that.
Cheers
Rob
ps - have today sent forms off for MSA National B sprint licence - Lichfield Friarsgate Curborough champs here we come next year ! PASTY ON TOUR. Seems I will be in Mod Prod class however - could be tough. Sponsorship welcome - how about from Badger 5 ?
ibizacupra
14-01-2003, 15:05
Originally posted by RobT
Afternoon gents
EBC reds have given me a touch of the soily pants on a couple of occasions - awful pads IMO, not suitable for a road car as absolutely no bite from cold - very dangerous for the road.
I have a set of Hawk Black pads which are ace hot or cold but VERY agressive and metallic - eat the disks up and cover the car and wheels in brown dust that wont come off, basically metal particles that oxidise immediately to brown - hob cleaner was found to be the only thing to bring it off paintwork. Not a 'preferable' option for the long term.
Latest are Wilwood poly D's - very nice, bite from cold and never had fade yet (not trying hard enough obviously !) good feel, should work well with the disks as both are wilwood. One set lasted 11 trackdays last year and perhaps 25% left on pads - changed them anyway for this year. Good price - £70 for 4 pads delivered and vatted from Rally Design.
We should speak again about the tyre thing - bulk discount and all that.
Cheers
Rob
ps - have today sent forms off for MSA National B sprint licence - Lichfield Friarsgate Curborough champs here we come next year ! PASTY ON TOUR. Seems I will be in Mod Prod class however - could be tough. Sponsorship welcome - how about from Badger 5 ?
Sponsorship from Badger5 gets wasted on me :D (Spent on me...)
I would hate to think what class my Ibiza would fall into.... Kicjk some EVO arse I would hope.
Run the Jetta in your class also... Jetta vs Ibiza.
As for tyres. Yep deffo up for a set or 2 I think.
What next?
regards
Bill
Dormouse
14-01-2003, 17:06
The Boscombe Down sprint is always god for a thrash. Prolly a bit southern for you though Rob?
dor.
Originally posted by ibizacupra
Run the Jetta in your class also... Jetta vs Ibiza.
As for tyres. Yep deffo up for a set or 2 I think.
What next?
regards
Bill
It would be good if you bring the Jetta along also, more direct competition - I suspect you would be in a different class though and may get away with road modified - reason I would have to run in mod prod is the relative lack of interior. Mod prod is some pretty wild kit however and plastic windows, plastic panels, modified suspension pickups, free gearbox, slicks, etc etc are allowed. Its basically one step down from non-roadgoing which are totally stripped with no lights / heater etc. I think spaceframes are allowed here also.
Who cares what I'm up against anyhow, it will be a laugh. To win I suspect you would have to build a car to fully take advantage of the regs but who knows.
Sent you email re tyres.
Cheers
Rob
Dormouse
14-01-2003, 17:36
Got the MSA scrutineering regs if you want any info Rob. Old man used to do a bit of Scutineering including one or two TOCA.
Dor.
ibizacupra
14-01-2003, 19:20
Originally posted by RobT
It would be good if you bring the Jetta along also, more direct competition - I suspect you would be in a different class though and may get away with road modified - reason I would have to run in mod prod is the relative lack of interior. Mod prod is some pretty wild kit however and plastic windows, plastic panels, modified suspension pickups, free gearbox, slicks, etc etc are allowed. Its basically one step down from non-roadgoing which are totally stripped with no lights / heater etc. I think spaceframes are allowed here also.
Who cares what I'm up against anyhow, it will be a laugh. To win I suspect you would have to build a car to fully take advantage of the regs but who knows.
Sent you email re tyres.
Cheers
Rob
Cool.
It would be good to go head to head with the Beezer vs the Jetta. I think the Jetta's going to be difficult to beat mind you as I still feel its the quicker car than the Ibiza (mine). Only one way to find out of course. :D Although the Ibiza did do a reasonable time at Blyton last time and did win Kames too. Hmmm. Decpetive perhaps! Handles like a bag of shite but still fairly quick. When sorted it will be hard to beat I think.
Club Gti Blyton event is soon chaps (relatively) - March 22nd - see below for details.
SATURDAY MARCH 22nd 2003, AT RALLYDRIVE RALLYSCHOOL, BLYTON, NEAR GAINSBOROUGH, LINCOLNSHIRE
A FULL DAY'S TRACK ACTION AT THE SEALED
1.25 MILE TARMAC RALLYSCHOOL CIRCUIT
COST: £35 (NON MEMBERS - £45)
LIMITED TO 30 CARS
WHO? OPEN TO VOLKSWAGEN AUDI GROUP (VAG) ROAD LEGAL CARS
FORMAT: PRACTICE SESSIONS IN THE MORNING AND INDIVIDUAL TIMED RUNS IN THE AFTERNOON.
FURTHER INFORMATION FROM CLUB GTI EVENTS MANAGER
TEL. 07976 619 121
OR E-MAIL VIA events@clubgti.com