View Full Version : Looks like APR is pissed off.
Have you already seen this? http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=663694 Interesting comments from APR...
Interesting, then retracted
sounds like he's just trying to muddy the water to me by implying theft of 'intelectual rights'
Dormouse
19-01-2003, 12:47
Which is always a didgy area involving legal people making lots of money...damn, why did i decide to be an engineer??!
Dor.
So, claify this for me.... I thought APR had changed their name for Revo. Is this not the case? Is Revo a completely different company with nothing to do with APR?
Ben
ibizacupra
20-01-2003, 12:53
Originally posted by BenS1
So, claify this for me.... I thought APR had changed their name for Revo. Is this not the case? Is Revo a completely different company with nothing to do with APR?
Ben
REVO are a different company to APR (USA) as was APR-Europe. REVO is staffed with the previous APR-Europe people, so the names of peeps you knew before are pretty much the same now.
REVO software however is all new and serially programmed. No more opening of ECU's req'd whcih is nice :D
Its good stuff. Very impressive.
Bill
Dormouse
20-01-2003, 13:00
Me Want.
Dor.
Me too! But I wish they would update the website. I was told that the 20th would be the full launch date.:confused:
When I looked at the site there were no details of how much power their upgrade produce. Anyone got any details?
Also, whats all this talk about APR taking legal action over Revo?
Cheers
Ben
ibizacupra
20-01-2003, 21:59
Originally posted by BenS1
When I looked at the site there were no details of how much power their upgrade produce. Anyone got any details?
Also, whats all this talk about APR taking legal action over Revo?
Cheers
Ben
Power wise, think APR +some more.
I drove their Ibiza and it is strong.....
As for APR and legal action,.... like you said its just talk. They're going to be very worried lets face it.... A whole new way of tuning has appeared and they don't have a part of it. Lets face it and I mean no disrespect to any Americans reading this, but the culture in the USA is sue first ask questions later. (well talk it at least!)
I would'nt worry about it.... REVO expertise base remains here in the UK and the smart guys who developed this SPS system are all REVO directors. This is'nt likely to be a flash in the pan... this is the start of something quite exciting.
regards
Bill
Yep, I am glad to be part of it. Hope to get my SPS2 soon so I will let everyone know how it goes.
Where else can you get 30%+ more power in less than 10 minutes without even lifting the bonnet !!
I wish all the best to the guys at Revo and I don't think APR have a cat in hells chance of stopping them on their way to world domination.
Is the REVO remap still generic or car to car based i.e. could one car get more from it than another as with the APR chip?
ibizacupra
21-01-2003, 08:41
Originally posted by whelme
Is the REVO remap still generic or car to car based i.e. could one car get more from it than another as with the APR chip?
In all honesty, I would say potentially yes.
there is still a serious market for one off, engine matched, chipping a la Jabba for those who want it.
There is a great appeal for serial programming your car tho... Nothing touched with respect to ECU and warranty should still hold up fine. There's a good choice for peeps which ever way :D
SPS3 offers the customer a range of adjustment of ignition and boost level, which should provide soem level of tailoring..... (or if like me, it would be max everything - LOL)
As an aside, my cars in at Jabba having its IHI done, and so far Mike has noticed I have a cracked turbo and a defective MAF. Maybe my low power is actually down to a combination of things....
Mike has'nt seen a low milage engine with a cracked turbo like mine before.... high milers are common apparently.
regards
Bill
Originally posted by ibizacupra
Mike has'nt seen a low milage engine with a cracked turbo like mine before.... high milers are common apparently.
regards
Bill
There's probably not many low milage motors had the servere thrashing yours has had either. It makes you wonder how long they've been faulty though and why it hasn't been picked up, particularly the MAF.
Bill, cracked turbo :eek: probably cheaper doing the upgrade than it seizing on you, a blessing in disguise this 300+BHP :p
ibizacupra
21-01-2003, 12:27
Originally posted by whelme
There's probably not many low milage motors had the servere thrashing yours has had either. It makes you wonder how long they've been faulty though and why it hasn't been picked up, particularly the MAF.
Severe thrashing?
I seem to remember quite a few other 20VT's on track days too :p
check your turbos chaps!
Cracking is very common.
It can continue to work fine for years and be crazy paved with cracks. My old T2 Garrett was full of cracks on my Renault 11 Turbo, but it kept running fine... (18psi)
MAF fault is a manufacturing one, with excessive glue on the film element. Not good, and was bound to screw up readings. Electrically it worked.
regards
Bill
So, Revo programs the ECU via the Diagnositics port, other tuners change the chip, but ultimately they are doing the same thing, ie. changing the maps that the ECU uses. So, how come Revo are getting significantly more power than other tuners? I'm not making accusations but one possiblity is that they are pushing the boost up even higher.... beyond the range that other tuners consider safe???
Bill, hopefully you cracked turbo and MAF were the causes of your lost power... but someone should of picked up on that.
Cheers
Ben
Dormouse
21-01-2003, 16:48
Hmmm....maybe you are getting more airflow than meaasured then.
Also I noticed driving your car that the DV made noise with the STD airbox. mine doesn't! Wonder if that was turbo related?
Dor.
hopkinsgm
21-01-2003, 21:02
Originally posted by BenS1
...So, Revo programs the ECU via the Diagnositics port, other tuners change the chip, but ultimately they are doing the same thing, ie. changing the maps that the ECU uses...
The difference (as I understand it) is that Revo upload their software into the spare capacity of your existing hardware which in principle should make things a bit more reliable - don't know if you've ever tried desoldering a chip from a PCB Ben but it's not a particularly easy job, especially in these days of multilayer boards... This is why so many electronic goods these days are simply bin fodder when they die - they're uneconomical to repair.
As for the higher power, perhaps it's simply that they understand the finer details of the engine's requirements than others? I've heard plenty of tales of chipping woes since Seat first started using the 20vT motor. Many of these tales have been related on this very site. It strikes me that there's a whole heap of chippers out there who aren't fully intimate with what they're doing and don't seem to realise that a little bit of this here might mean a whole lot less of that there. And they seem to be using the punters cars for R&D while they hone their skills. Which is nice... :eek:
I have two chips in my punto. a boost chip which is soldered in which is why I have to use a boost controller or bleed valve to set my boost and the fuel/ignition map chip which is just plugged in. I got mine from italy and had to change it myself which was fun. not a huger increase inpower as the boost in only increased slightly but much better than standard.
ibizacupra
22-01-2003, 09:59
Originally posted by BenS1
Bill, hopefully you cracked turbo and MAF were the causes of your lost power... but someone should of picked up on that.
Cheers
Ben
"you cracked turbo and MAF were the causes of your lost power... but someone should of picked up on that. "
Well yea... they should.. You would think! Says a lot does'nt it.
The comparison I make is between APR and REVO for Ibiza. Ibiza never had an Optimax 98 Ibiza program... REVO does. More umph. Ask Saul, I think he's running the software... and it went better than previously, and that was pretty good before!
SPS3 gives you a range of adjustment of both ignition and boost, so you would be able to match settings to fuel used.
Bill
ibizacupra
22-01-2003, 10:01
Originally posted by Dormouse
Hmmm....maybe you are getting more airflow than meaasured then.
Also I noticed driving your car that the DV made noise with the STD airbox. mine doesn't! Wonder if that was turbo related?
Dor.
Maybe more flow, but if the ecu is'nt metering it in (from the low reading MAF), it would'nt have been running the right boost and ignition...
Might explain a lot..
Costing me a new MAF tho...
Warranty again, not worth diddly squat!
Noise wise, I have a piece of foam removed from the NS frotn wing, rear edge, so its noisier now... It was removed due it being a water trap not for noise.
Bill
The comparison I make is between APR and REVO for Ibiza. Ibiza never had an Optimax 98 Ibiza program... REVO does. More umph. Ask Saul, I think he's running the software... and it went better than previously, and that was pretty good before!
I've never really understood this.... I thought the ECU uses the knock sensor to adjust for the different octane fuels automatically and so its not necessary to have different programs for different ocatane fuels. Is this wrong?
Cheers
Ben
ibizacupra
22-01-2003, 13:25
Originally posted by BenS1
I've never really understood this.... I thought the ECU uses the knock sensor to adjust for the different octane fuels automatically and so its not necessary to have different programs for different ocatane fuels. Is this wrong?
Cheers
Ben
Knock sensing is a last resort "protection" for the engine. It retards the ignition in large (power sapping) steps.
I believe APR's original program for the Ibiza was doen for 95RON fuel, so full advantage of ignition advance possible for Optimax for example, would not have been in the map.
Its an adaptive system tho, so I don't know how far it can adapt within its window on things like ignition advance..
I remember the RSD Golf IV running their 240bhp K04 conversion (back in Sept 2001) pinked badly on a test drive. Too much ignition advance on that car possibly. Mapped for good German fuel perhaps, and run on 95UL perhaps with a good dollop of Millers for good measure. - It later expired so I heard. Pop! (not confirmed)
Bill
Fair enough, makes sense. So, does this mean that if you run an Optimax program then its unsafe to ever run on normal 95RON?
Cheers
Ben