View Full Version : H&R kit- Some questions
Tony2Quick4u
20-01-2003, 13:33
Hi all,
I will be purchasing my H&R kit at the end of this week, as i have heard very good reports about the kit, but beofre i buy i just want to check a few things.
It say its a drop of 60mm at the front and 40 at the back. Does this not make the car look funny as the drops are different.
I have just had a full cat back exhaust fitted (Magnex 6x4 Oval) and was wondering if 40mm drop on the rear is too much and the rear axle will start to knock against my exhaust?
Also i have 205/40/17 fitted, will these cause a problem at all, like will the wheels be knocking against the suspension cups?
Just want to check these things as i dont want to buy the kit and have to send it back as i am getting it fitted next saturday, hmmm just in time for the RR, not that it makes a difference to the performance on the rollers but will look the nuts!!!
:cheers:
Ps. i just need to know if it will all fit ok......to put it simply!!
The quoted 60/40 drop is for non-GTI/Cupra models. On yours the drop will be circa 50mm.
17s should be fine if you have an ok ET. Lots of people running -40mm or more and 17s, mate.
Tony2Quick4u
20-01-2003, 14:51
Cheers for that Ed. much help is obliged, god i cant wait for the Kit i will be flying around the roundabouts even faster now, i must have splashed out loads of money withing the past 3-4 months!!
Jimmyboy
20-01-2003, 14:54
What does the "H&R" bit stand for?
60mm is quite a drop, I once had a Cavalier lowered 30mm and thought this was low!! A cheaper idea is to get yourself a fat girlfriend, the only downside (no pun intended) is this only works on one side of your car!
Brand name, kit uses Bilstein dampers and H&R progressively wound springs (allegedly better than Eibach springs).
Dormouse
20-01-2003, 17:50
Tony.
Don't go near any speed humps mate ;)
Dor.
as dor says with your new additional splitter its gonna scuff on anything higher than a dog turd,aviod multi storey ramps,speed humps etc or you'll be on the phone to RGM every week;)
Dormouse
20-01-2003, 20:52
Mind you, you'de being doing a public service by using you splitter to scoop up dog-nasties. Perhaps you could claim it back against tax?
:D
Dor.
Tony2Quick4u
21-01-2003, 08:33
DOH, yeah i know about the front splitter, i was scrpaing the multi storey car park ramps when i had the 15"s on, without it being even lowered yet......damn i guess i will have to drive the speed limit now over those speed humps, i often wondered what they were for.....!!
:cheers:
Originally posted by edc
Brand name, kit uses Bilstein dampers and H&R progressively wound springs (allegedly better than Eibach springs).
The new Golf R32 has H&R suspension, so it can't be bad and I'm well pleased with mine.
Originally posted by Dormouse
Tony.
Don't go near any speed humps mate ;)
Dor.
I haven't hit any yet, don't know how close though.
Tony2Quick4u
21-01-2003, 08:58
Thing is Whelme, i have an extra front splitter on mine which makes it or at least will make it very low to the ground!!
I'll measure my front bumper to ground and let you know later today. I'll also measure distance from wheel to front lip.
Tony2Quick4u
21-01-2003, 09:12
thanks alot for that, big help, although even when i do get it lowered, it still might scrape!!
Tony
Mine is 125mm to lower edge of bumper and 500mm (give or take 10mm) from tyre to front lip (measured at bumper lower edge level). Hope this give a bit more idea of what to expect. Be warned the H&R kit is low.
Tony2Quick4u
21-01-2003, 11:28
Whelme, have you got any pics, i am realling worried that my car is going to be mega low!!!
how much clearance do you have at the moment tony?
under the front splitter.
Mark
Tony2Quick4u
21-01-2003, 11:35
no worries, just seen them in the ibiza gallery, i think i might just get away with it, my biggest concer now is the axle hitting the exhaust!!
this is stressing me out now.....
Tony2Quick4u
21-01-2003, 11:40
its off the ground at just under 17cm at the moment....
no probs mate (hopefully), the council will just put you on call hen the snow comes down next year :D
Loadsa room up front
the section of the rear beam near the exhaust has plenty of room & it doesn't move much. it'll be fine. i've never heard my exhaust hit the car (or ground)
Tony2Quick4u
21-01-2003, 11:47
Thinking about it, mine will have the same clearance as Whelme's, at 125mm off the ground, and he says he does not have any problems, so hopefully mine should be all ok....
My exhaust clanks when I go over a speed bump, but never under normal road conditions.
Is the 60mm drop for Cupra or standard Ibiza. Also if you are worried too much you can opt for the 40mm drop springs all round, but have to pay a bit more for splitting kit. This was an option that Awesome gave me. That way you would be about the same height as mine (bumper to ground)
Tony2Quick4u
21-01-2003, 11:51
its a 50mm drop for the GTI models all round with the H&R kit,thats what i hae been told anyway.
That was me. The 60/40 is for non-Cupra/GTI models. Since they're german they've opted for the 'DTM' type of nose down look. Not overly pronounced at all though.
Tony2Quick4u
21-01-2003, 12:01
By the way Ed did you find out which is the correct part No. for the H&R kit from carnoisseur? cheers mate
The part number is this: 31 013-2 (as given to me by AMD), you can cross-check it with the NFS site.
Tony2Quick4u
21-01-2003, 12:46
Ed is there a discount involved at all with Carnoisseur, is it worth me phoning up and trying to blag it, i mean sorry try to arrange an official discount with Carnoisseur?
:cheers:
No, blag all you want, but don't hold your breath cos their margin must be quite low with that sort of price and the fact they have several shops. Best ones to blag from are the one-shop in the countryside or paying cheap rent types cos they have the least overheads.
Kev Hall
21-01-2003, 13:04
From what I've seen I think the H & R kit is lower than stated...
Sauls got the H&R cup kit on his beeza. My Billy sprintline kit is 40mm all round drop, but his sits flatter than mine rather than nose down and is approx 20mm lower at the front than mine and 30mm at the back. There was at least a 40mm drop on my car when we fitted the billies.
We were a bit worried when we put it on as it was so low.
Just seems a bit lower than stated!
The 20VT kit is 50/40mm lower than a 20VT. Alot of spring drops are measure for a standard car and usually the sports models are 10-20mm lower anyway, therefore only dropping another 20-30mm using a -40mm spring.
I will go and measure the wheel centre to arch to check against a standard car.
Right, just measured from centre of wheel to arch lip and all 4 are 310-315mm taking into account it's pissing down here. That gives you a guide to what the 20VT kit gives.
reckon i'll measure lorna's Mk3 1.4 later on then to compare
Mark
As her wheels are narrower the measurement may be longer as mine were done holding the tape to the arch lip and then touching the centre cap, but it a good indication.
Tony2Quick4u
21-01-2003, 14:24
what about Koni or Bilstein then?
What about them?
Having second thoughts now Tony??
The H&R kit is meant to be better than any Bilstein Sprintline/Streetline kit you can get - not from my personal experience mind. They are a bit cheaper. Koni SSK is good says Glyn and drop is less than H&R circa 35mm.
Tony2Quick4u
21-01-2003, 15:19
i might be, but i think its the 2 week wait thats pissing me off which means i wont be getting it done very soon, will be getting it done in March time now, dam.
I hear Koni's are a very hard ride and Bilstein are the same....
How much are the Koni SSK and where can i get those from as i have not seen them anywhere advertised?
:cheers:
Go to say a big thanks to everyone on this thread, been really helpful and letting me know the ins and outs of different suspension setups. Cheers guys. I think this is one of the many reasons SeatCupra.net is the No.1 site for modified Seats!
No mate. My understanding is the Bilsteins give a hard ride and the Konis probably have the most compliant ride of any kit. Ultimately though it loses out on handling (on a track)to a Bilstein set-up.
Konis available everywhere - kit with the adjustable yellow dampers, see DT or NFS or any of the ads in PVW rag, even AMD.
Or you could get KW.
You need to buy later and look into what you want, what you want to get out of it and weigh up the costs. I did that already and when I flipped it keeps coming up H&R.
Tony2Quick4u
21-01-2003, 16:13
What about PSX sprintline kit? its priced at 349.99 from Demon Tweeks?
Most of the DT suspension you can get cheaper elsewhere.
Is that a koni kit? height or damping adjustable, or both, or even neither? If it's the latter it's a bit dear.
tony.
spax,tend to leak i'm told
koni,have adjustable damping,so you choose how hard it is
bilstein,i have these they are great(well they would be)though,lower the front too much imho.
if ya want a good firm ride with good road holding go for either bilstein/koni dampers and a set of eibach springs(if they still make em)this i'm told is the best non coilover option.the rest is up to you
there are lots of systems out there that i've never herad used on a seat why not try one of them?:cheers:
AMD seem to rate the H&R springs over the Eibach ones, and I'd be inclined to agree judging by the people singing the praises of the H&R Cup kit on here (Bilstein dampers and H&R springs). Just opinion though.;)
Dormouse
21-01-2003, 20:36
bilstein,i have these they are great
Don't tell Bill that he thinks his are pants crap plating etc.(on his Ibiza anyway)
Dor.
Rally_IbizaGTi
21-01-2003, 21:05
Wot sorta price u looking at for a H&R kit and where from?
£334 is the cheapest I've found but I don't know whether this kit will fit your pre-facelit car.
hopkinsgm
21-01-2003, 21:33
Originally posted by edc
...Koni SSK is good says Glyn and drop is less than H&R circa 35mm...
Tony's seen my car a couple of times, so will know how it looks on 16's. He's also seen it go round Curborough a few times too. The ride is way smoother than any of the mk2's i've ever been in with the Bilstein kit on, although it's worth noting that not all Bilstein kits are the same - the spring manufacturer was changed at some point...
Anyway, if you have concerns about how stiff the Koni's will be, you're welcome to a demo at the RR day (when the date is finalised)... In all honesty, there's been a couple of times on track when I wish i'd gone for something a bit firmer but then for a car that's used primarily as a daily drive, I reckon the Koni kit was the best compromise for my needs (is it just me or has anyone else noted the way the word "compromise" keeps appearing in handling related threads?)
As an aside, it seems many Koni dealers are unaware that they can actually provide a kit for a mk2 Ibiza (late model only though!). Sadly I don't have the kit number to hand, though I know i've told a couple of people what it is when they've mailed me about it. Perhaps someone could refresh my memory?
also as G forgot to mention they also come with bumpstops from memory,may try H&R when funds permit these ventura ones are not that good at all,(good on the road not that good on the track)gave away the previous springs but they were good,:cheers:
"MarkP speaks the truth - I do have a Koni SSK kit on my '99 8v - kit reference is SSK-57 IIRC. I rate it pretty highly, it strikes a good balance between ride compliance and handling. In terms of ultimate handling it probably isn't the best kit available, but as an allround kit for a car which is a daily driver (more so now than ever before in its' life), it's a good compromise." Glyn Hopkins, all round helpful dude. Extract from email to Ed :)
hopkinsgm
21-01-2003, 21:57
Thanks for that Ed - had a couple of PC rebuilds recently, so have lost a hulking great lump of email archive...
And as Jase stated, yes, the Koni SSK's come with proper shortened bumpstops, no cutting (read "bodging") of OE rubber items required... :)
Noticed you slipped in that word 'compromise' again :p
Having driven, owned & had rides in many different VAG cars with many different suspension combinations, my thoughts are:
Koni make the best dampers, in terms of quality, firmness and adjustment.
H&R make the most road-comfortable springs.
Eibach - better (firmer) than H&R on the track/super smooth road but a bit harsh for UK roads on everyday basis.
Koni SSK - good compromise between H&R and Eibach.
If you're that worried about height then wait and save up for coilovers, I'd recommend Koni's or H&R's (Koni's are cheaper and damping is adjustable).
Tony2Quick4u
22-01-2003, 08:36
so really it is down to personal taste or preference.
either i go for harder springs but suffer the slightly more uncomfortable ride each day in the fact i will be going on a few track days throughout the year or go for the "COMPROMISE" (there it is again Glynn) and go for the H&R as most of the year i will be driving on normal roads, but i presume the H&R kit will still be quite good on the track?
Cheers guys
I found mine to be superb at Alconbury in November, which was my first trackday after getting it. I think it has cut down the understeer loads, but obviously a powerful FWD car will still have it with the power on. Somewhere like Curby or Blyton will be a good test for me, but sometimes it's how you drive the car not just what bits you stuck on it that counts.
Originally posted by Glenn
Having driven, owned & had rides in many different VAG cars with many different suspension combinations, my thoughts are:
Koni make the best dampers, in terms of quality, firmness and adjustment.
H&R make the most road-comfortable springs.
Eibach - better (firmer) than H&R on the track/super smooth road but a bit harsh for UK roads on everyday basis.
Koni SSK - good compromise between H&R and Eibach.
If you're that worried about height then wait and save up for coilovers, I'd recommend Koni's or H&R's (Koni's are cheaper and damping is adjustable).
What about Koni dampers with H&R springs. Lower, better handling, best comfort, can't be a bad mix can it?
get the H&R kit it's wicked, if you can find my thread from 6 months ago all the pics are there after i had it done, speed bumps shouldn't be a problem, i live in Ealing and it's full of them.
Make sure you don't have too many people in the back, coz i've had srubbage with the car fully loaded, but only over speed bumps.
Enjoy
Mizgy
20VT
H&R cup kit
17's 40 profile F1's
ibizacupra
22-01-2003, 13:42
Originally posted by Dormouse
Don't tell Bill that he thinks his are pants crap plating etc.(on his Ibiza anyway)
Dor.
I will qualify this statement by saying the PSS9's are the ones I am dissatisfied with currently, due to severe corrosion and damper abrasion problems.
Other, non-coil over dampers have given me many years (10) of excellent service. (Sportline ones)
Jetta still runs on them and is by far the better damped, controlled, comfortable car vs my Ibiza.
Bill
Dormouse
22-01-2003, 16:26
See my cunning use of brackets to cover myself there! :p
I thought you beezer handled well but oscillated strangely (up and down stylee) on the motorway.
Dor.
Tony2Quick4u
22-01-2003, 16:28
H&R Kit it is then. ordering end of February and getting fitted in March sometime. Cheers lads
:cheers:
hellspawn
22-01-2003, 17:44
I had my H&R springs fitted at stealth racing.
When i drove down, i missed the turning into stealth, and went straight past, ended up going way past the scooby dealer, i was following a golf vr6 at the time, and thought maybe he was on his way there.
When i realised i was going off the beaten track, i turned round and went back the way i came, and saw the entrace to the industrial estate.
after the car had been chiped, and the springs fitted, i took the car down same said road, upto the scooby dealer to test it out, so cause i had missed the turn in, in the morning, i had a before and after experience.
all i can say is m8, definatly going the right way gettin H&R.The springing is progressive, and i find the ride not to harsh, but stiff enough when needed :)
As for ground clearance, i did not have mine set that low, i'm on the stock wheels, and the front just skims a standard kerb, and not really had any problems, although i can nolonger go up the ramp by maplins, tis stupidly steep anyway.
ibizacupra
22-01-2003, 18:57
Originally posted by Dormouse
See my cunning use of brackets to cover myself there! :p
I thought you beezer handled well but oscillated strangely (up and down stylee) on the motorway.
Dor.
I know what you mean Dor... sort of a boing action...
I think its the lack of suspension movement and its the tyres going boing. Not a lot else moves.
I dare'nt stiffen the damping any more! Me fillings will pop out.
Bill
Originally posted by edc
What about Koni dampers with H&R springs. Lower, better handling, best comfort, can't be a bad mix can it?
That's what I'd go for if I was after a non-height adjustable set-up. I was going to mention it but the original poster was worried that the H&R Cup kit might be too low so changing the dampers from Bilstein to Koni wouldn't make any difference to that.
Great minds think alike. However, I feel quite assured that this combo will cost more than the £334 I discovered for the H&R kit (but at least I can play with the dampers).
Just looked into the above, and 2 problems:
1) KONI advise a max 35mm drop on their Sport Shocks. The H&R springs are listed as 'approx -30mm' in DT and 'approx -35mm' from another source. Quite close. Are the Bilstein dampers much shorter than the KONI ones??
2) Cost :(
Best prices so far:
Front shocks: £199.89
Rear shocks: £219.89
H&R Springs: £110.00
Total: c£530.00!
That's £200 more than an H&R Cup kit I can source, damn!
OR;
KONI Sport Suspension kit (uses KONI Sport dampers with Vogtland springs, includes bumpstops) - £375
That's a whopping £155 difference JUST for different springs. The H&R springs are not even worth £155 more because you can get them for £110!!
So, anybody want to buy some Vogtland lowering springs from me ;)
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that it could be quite pricey to mix 'n' match. Plus you have to check the spring coil diameter is the same/similar or you may have to buy new front spring retaining caps. (See pre and post-95 Golf GTI/VR6 for example). Luckily the spring retaining caps are interchangeable, it's just another extra £30 or so to the bill.
The H&R springs will be ok on Koni Sports dampers, just don't try it with -60mm drop!
I'm glad I went for H&R coilovers, any rubbing or new wheels and I just wind them up a few turns.
BTW Ed, could your signature be any bigger? LOL! ;)
Off-set some of the cost with a 10% discount :) Anybody looking for KONI email me.
I know there's somebody else on here running KONI coilovers with H&R Springs.
With a discount and if the Vogtland springs can be shifted I might explore this avenue.
Glenn, sig's long for a reason. I'm requesting help for some features and trying to drum up interest in 'tarty' parts. I hope to have some on 'trial' later so people can see them on an Ibiza. ;)
:cheers:
KONI tell me that the correct kit for 16v Ibiza is SSK-58, not SSK-57.