View Full Version : DPJ's GTRS Eliminator Install and Development
Saturday 16/06/07
I ground the bottom left corner off my ATP manifold. Then, I thought I'd bolt the turbo to the manifold to get an idea of the size of it and exactly where it would sit in the engine bay.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/DPJ/GT28RS%20Install/P1010012.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/DPJ/GT28RS%20Install/P1010013-1.jpg
A quick peek down the back of the engine made me realise it would be well worthwhile disconnecting the two heater hoses at their bulkhead end to make it easy to get the turbo in and out.
I lifted the turbo in and placed it on my downpipe.
Then, I fitted the ATP highflow manifold using just a few nuts and no gasket.
Next, try to bolt the turbo to the manifold. I managed to get the offside bolt in, but the nearside hole in the turbo was towards the bulkhead by about 3mm.
Why........
Compressor housing on turbo catching the 6 speed gearbox housing.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/DPJ/GT28RS%20Install/P1010015-1.jpg
Sunday 17/06//07
Turbo back out and set to with a grinder.
Top tip 385. When you're grinding mag-alloy, it's worth wrapping any nearby wires. I did - with a piece of soldering mat. :funk: What you shouldn't then do is let the alloy dust build up on it, then fire a few iron sparks at it. The flash you will get is incredible. :hide: I luckily managed to pull the mat out (glowing brighter than the sun) before any damage was done.
Water sprayer now on the job.
The 3mm i needed transposed to about 5mm at the gearbox housing - I think I managed to grind 6mm away.
Turbo and manifold back in, this time with an old manifold gasket as tolerances are looking tight.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/DPJ/GT28RS%20Install/p1010033.jpg
Good work Dave, I'd heard it was a tight fit - but I hadn't realised just how tight. I know a few people have clocked the housing to get round it, but then the outlet's not going to fit :shrug:
Old gasket is a good idea.
I was thinking the other day - I wonder if it's worth lapping the two mateing faces, especially after your blown gaskets.
Got some stainless bolts then?
*cough*measuring jug*cough* (only kidding)
Sunday 17/06/07
Well I thought I'd tighten the turbo up to the manifold. (first photo taken before bolts tightened)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/DPJ/GT28RS%20Install/p1010031.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/DPJ/GT28RS%20Install/p1010032.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/DPJ/GT28RS%20Install/P1010035.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/DPJ/GT28RS%20Install/p1010032.jpg
Yay! I appear to have got it to fit without having to clock it! :D :funk:
The bottom of the compressor housing is actually touching the gearbox housing. I'm going to take a nick out of the gearbox housing there so that no strain is being put on the turbo shaft when the whole thing is tight. That part of the gearbox housing is actually a large lip/cowl that goes over the top of the driveshaft coupling.
The large inlet fits on the compressor inlet ok. (or it will when I've cut off the surplus upstanding bracket on the gearbox.)
Next - to make this little lot fit properly. I think I'm going to need to make a bracket to hold it to the gearbox. I can only line one hole up.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/DPJ/GT28RS%20Install/P1010040.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/DPJ/GT28RS%20Install/P1010038.jpg
Tomorrow I'm posting my ECU to Revo for flashing.
Good work Dave, I'd heard it was a tight fit - but I hadn't realised just how tight. I know a few people have clocked the housing to get round it, but then the outlet's not going to fit :shrug:
Old gasket is a good idea.
I was thinking the other day - I wonder if it's worth lapping the two mateing faces, especially after your blown gaskets.
Got some stainless bolts then?
*cough*measuring jug*cough* (only kidding)
Cheers Phil. I'd thought about lapping the surfaces, but I decided I didn't want to f*** around with the new turbine housing. Yes, A4 stainless bolts this time.
When I had the manifold in my hand earlier, I thought of you and the measuring. :D TBH - it would leak if I did, it's got a hairline crack. :cry: I've thought hard about it, and I'm getting it welded up this week.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/DPJ/GT28RS%20Install/P1010019.jpg
The MoffMeister
17-06-2007, 18:12
man glad i aint doing that one it seems like such a pain in the ass, but glad its going well...
Lookin good dave, i'm lookin forward to seeing the shifter cables goin the inlet to see what thats like.
Just a thought, did you previously use the gaskets that came with the mani? I read theyre not as good as OEM ones.
That actuator is gonna be close to my bulhead i reckon.. whats it like on yours?
Wonder how much angle grinder work is goin to be needed on a 5 speed as well...
The MoffMeister
17-06-2007, 18:40
dont think you have many probs on a 5spd to be honest from what i've heard?? but could be wrong..
Lookin good dave, i'm lookin forward to seeing the shifter cables goin the inlet to see what thats like.
Just a thought, did you previously use the gaskets that came with the mani? I read theyre not as good as OEM ones.
That actuator is gonna be close to my bulhead i reckon.. whats it like on yours?
Wonder how much angle grinder work is goin to be needed on a 5 speed as well...
Cheers Phil. I know I'm going to have to alter the shifter cable bracket. I've read it's easy to break the plastic ends so I'm going to go very carefully there.
Yes, I used the ATP supplied gasket last time. This time, I've got an OEM one.
I'm surprised, there's bags of room between the actuator and the bulkhead. Am I right in saying the Ibiza has more room between head and bulkhead then the Leon?
5 speed I'll bet you don't have to get the grinder out. Are you going to wait until yours is back on the road before you proceed with the BT?
Yeah 5 speed supposed t be easier.
Is that inlet for a 5speed or a 6speed?
Mine's 5 speed (the atp gear) . Have they made a 6 speed version yet?
The MoffMeister
17-06-2007, 19:09
not that im aware of think they stopped it..
not that im aware of think they stopped it..
I think they'd have potential future legal issues if they wrote in their fitting instructions "Cut this bit off the gearbox casing. Cut that bit off the gearbox casing. ATP cannot be held liable if your gearbox falls off...." :lol:
I hope i have just as much room dave, but after fitting the k03s i'd say i'd be ok. Just a little worried thats all. Will be ordering my kit within the next two weeks.
Are you using any other fuel pump with your setup?
I hope i have just as much room dave, but after fitting the k03s i'd say i'd be ok. Just a little worried thats all. Will be ordering my kit within the next two weeks.
Are you using any other fuel pump with your setup?
I don't think the actuator projects backward much more than the K03S one, Phil. (I had to take mine off to take the K03S out, so I'm not positive - I think the Garrett actuator is sitting on a different position relative to the turbo)
Fuel pump - no I was hoping not. I've got 550 Genesis injectors. I've got a mental block at the moment as to whether I have to refit the 3bar FPR or stay on 4bar.
Revo uses 3bar on the 550cc's now dave, speak to kev about it tho just to make sure but i'm 99% sure its 3bar.
Thats what i wanted to hear tho, was a little bit worried about the whole space thing, but i'm sure its nothing a hammer, angle grinder and swearing wont sort out.
I'm sure you won't need a hammer or an angle grinder, Phil.
A large assorted box of arse, **** and **** has helped me enormously however. ;)
A large assorted box of arse, **** and **** has helped me enormously however. ;)
:roflmao:
Funny, I'm 50/50 with the FMIC at the moment. Do I take the charge pipe outlet a la Ibiza and inlet as LC (leave my own inlet mani on), or do I run it like a Leon Cupra R (and use the shiny one)? Any thoughts?
Got to be easier to go Ibiza charge pipe style? Although don't they have problems with the turbo outlet hose (at least forge do a TT/S3/LCR one)? But there's a fair bit to source/change to go LCR style charge pipe. Have you got a single pass FMIC?
Robdon went Golf manni/ibiza charge pipe, didn't he?
Ibiza charge pipe will piss you off dave. You have to take it off everytime you want get to coilpack no. 4.
What side of the car is your inlet/outlet on the FMIC, that will narrow your choices really.
I will be ditching my charge pipe to go for the LCR/TT setup as the inlet on my forge fmic is on the drivers side.
Ibiza charge pipe will piss you off dave. You have to take it off everytime you want get to coilpack no. 4.
What side of the car is your inlet/outlet on the FMIC, that will narrow your choices really.
I will be ditching my charge pipe to go for the LCR/TT setup as the inlet on my forge fmic is on the drivers side.
I've got a Forge LCR FMIC to go on, Phil. Is it handed (in/out?) I'd never really thought about it! <quick trip to loft - no, the end tanks look the same inside.>
I suppose it would be a better solution, but don't forget Dave will have to lengthen wires on the MAP sensor and TB. Not real biggy, just something else to go wrong...
Finding a TT/LCR/S3 charge pipe might be the issue - although there's that thread with a couple of aftermarket ones, and making one up on the car isn't too much trouble...
I suppose it would be a better solution, but don't forget Dave will have to lengthen wires on the MAP sensor and TB. Not real biggy, just something else to go wrong...
Finding a TT/LCR/S3 charge pipe might be the issue - although there's that thread with a couple of aftermarket ones, and making one up on the car isn't too much trouble...
Yes I'd taken lengthening the wires into account.
The thing with an LCR charge pipe is that it's got the two outlets on it (DV and ?). Do you know what diameter the LCR charge pipe is?
Outlets are DV and N75. DV is 25mm N75 is either 6mm or 8mm. Standard are 60mm diameter, from memory, although I'm fairly sure.
There's a fair bit of bracketry that goes with it as well.
Wouldn't be too hard to block the stock 25mm DV take-off, perhaps a bit rough looking because the stock pipe if REALLY thin and hard to weld. Where's the DV take-off on a Cupra?
I wondered about using the standard DV take off for a temperature sensor, out of interest...
Monday 18/06/07
Managed a day off work at short notice. :D
This is promising.
ATP big bore inlet in place, sitting as low as it would possible go on the 6 speed box. It just missed the big upstanding lug so no cutting. (I'm getting scared of the fireworks from mag alloy - especially when i remembered water + magnesium is not good either!)
I'd need to make a bracket to hold it in place, it isn't anywhere near a mounting hole.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/DPJ/GT28RS%20Install/P1010041.jpg
The ATP TIP is fitted to it. One issue, it's touching the ABS body - does anyone know if that gets hot?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/DPJ/GT28RS%20Install/P1010042.jpg
3" MAF body attached to my RamAir. I think I can make that fit into the 4" CAI (might replace that with a better tube.)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/DPJ/GT28RS%20Install/P1010044.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/DPJ/GT28RS%20Install/P1010047.jpg
I'm confused - yours is a 5 speed, and that's ATP's 5 speed inlet, right?
I remember seeing someone's pictures on how the bracket had been modded to hold it in place - I thought it was Myk3...
I'm confused - yours is a 5 speed, and that's ATP's 5 speed inlet, right?
I remember seeing someone's pictures on how the bracket had been modded to hold it in place - I thought it was Myk3...
No, I've got a six speed box. But yes, that's a 5 speed inlet I've got. Myk3 had a 5 speed box.......
Ahhh! Penny drops. I think it might have been Chris's S3 then...
Ahhh, makes sense to me now as well. Thought i wasnt goin mad. lol.
Dave, i said about the inlet/outlet as a lot of fmic pipework has a larger ID on the pipework to the TB.
Monday 18/06/07 continued......
The shifter cables sit quite comfortably across the top of the ATP big bore inlet in the position I've got it (not yet fixed down)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/DPJ/GT28RS%20Install/P1010048.jpg
ATP's shifter bracket is another matter though! Miles out. Some extensive fabrication is required.....
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/DPJ/GT28RS%20Install/P1010049.jpg
Monday 18/06/07 continued......
Posted my ECU to Revo.
It didn't take me long to make a template for the shifter cable bracket to go on top of the ATP big inlet. Once I was happy, I checked it against the OEM bracket and (unsurprisingly :doh: ) the cable hole plates were in virtually identical locations to the OEM bracket.
*The OEM bracket has rubber mounts - do you think they make the change softer? How do you think a direct bolted bracket will make it feel?
It took me a lot longer to design a template for the bracket to hold the ATP big inlet to the transmission. I could only use one of the three original mounting holes - the 'side' one is useless and the frontmost hole makes the big inlet sit up when it has a bolt in it. In the end, I'm using the two 'unused' upstanding holes - I'm glad I didn't cut them off.
Stripped ATP big bore manifold back off and cut a groove down the crack, then I dropped off the two templates and the manifold at my tame welder's.
That's it 'til the weekend. I need to get my head round what I need for the intercooler pipework now.
Dave, i fitted my Forge FMIC last weekend and it is handed, if i havent misunderstood the question.
Dave, i fitted my Forge FMIC last weekend and it is handed, if i havent misunderstood the question.
Go on, please explain how. :)
pretty good, lots of mods needed to make it fit, but you are doing very well and fast.
Go on, please explain how. :)
The inlet side has a vane (for want of a better word) inside at the top directing air to the top of the intercooler.
The inlet side has a vane (for want of a better word) inside at the top directing air to the top of the intercooler.
A baffle. Ok, thank you, I didn't look hard enough. :doh:
If I wanted to use it right to left pass, I'd need to cut the mounting brackets off and re-weld them on the other side so I could turn it over.. But I'm virtually decided I'm going down the LCR layout now.
**Edit - I spoke to Forge - they confirm the IC can be used either way round. - there is no baffle.
No problem mate. hope it all goes smoothly now. seems you've done most of the hard work. Well done, i'm very jealous.
pretty good, lots of mods needed to make it fit, but you are doing very well and fast.
Cheers, most of the time has been spent staring at it! :D
What you have written before has been very valuable, thank you. The ATP manifold's a doddle with no water pipe or turbo in the way. :D
Cheers, most of the time has been spent staring at it! :D
What you have written before has been very valuable, thank you. The ATP manifold's a doddle with no water pipe or turbo in the way. :D
cool! glad i was of help.
when do you think you will have it all done?
air121005
18-06-2007, 22:33
have to say, thats a good fit!
not a lot of room for manouvers what so ever by the look of it!
what sort of output figures are you hoping to achieve using this setup!
cool! glad i was of help.
when do you think you will have it all done?
If I get my ecu back this week, I can have the turbo and inlet side installed and fluids refilled. I'm tempted to connect the compressor outlet to the existing LC charge pipe just to get the car back on the road next weekend. Then I'd install the new FMIC pipework the following weekend. But I think I've been lucky so far, there'll maybe be a big snag somewhere. :shrug:
what FMIC are you going with? are you planning on making the pipe work go beside the battery?
what FMIC are you going with? are you planning on making the pipe work go beside the battery?
I've got a Forge LCR single pass IC to fit. I'm ~thinking of~ coming from the intercooler > under the rad > up to the inlet manifold (avoiding going under the battery or through the hole my CAI takes.
I decided this morning that I'm going to grind a few mm off the bottom of the turbo compressor inlet just below the bottom bolt hole, rather than take a chunk off the diff housing. The lip on the diff housing must give it some strengthening.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/DPJ/GT28RS%20Install/P1010035.jpg
maybe we should advise ATP to include an angle grinder as a part of the kit when you are fitting to a 6 speed application lol!
keep all the progress pics coming! a good read this thread is!
I decided this morning that I'm going to grind a few mm off the bottom of the turbo compressor inlet just below the bottom bolt hole, rather than take a chunk off the diff housing. The lip on the diff housing must give it some strengthening.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/DPJ/GT28RS%20Install/P1010035.jpg
Should've clocked the compressor :whistle:
Should've clocked the compressor :whistle:
:D
Nah - outlet would point at an odd angle and the oil outlet wouldn't be at its lowest point. ;)
you can clock it to keep the CHRA at the same point if you also loosen the exhaust housing nuts,
but you are right, keep it as it is, you dont want the exit not pointing up, just makes life a PITA
The thing is, it fits. I just want to give it a bit of clearance for expansion. The piece of the compressor inlet beneath the bolt hole isn't doing anything. It will aesthetically pleasing with a flat on the bottom. :D
are you working on your car all day today?
No, I'm at work until Friday. Job restarts Friday evening. :)
:D
Nah - outlet would point at an odd angle and the oil outlet wouldn't be at its lowest point. ;)
I was being facetious ;)
I was being facetious ;)
I've known you long enough to know that, Phil. :D
I had a call to say my ECU has been delivered at home, flashed with Revo Stage 3. :funk:
Fantastic service, Kev! :thumbup:
So it'll be a runner this weekend then dave?
So it'll be a runner this weekend then dave?
I'm just hoping my brackets and mani are welded up and ready to pick up later this afternoon.
I realised I was a 75mm silicon coupler short between ATP metal tip and maf - Forge have said they'll try their best to post one first class today.
So yes, I hope I can be running (plumbed temporarily into OEM intercooler pipework).
I'll keep posting here.
I just nipped out to try to get some liquid PTFE for the threaded connections.
I ended up with something that might be better... :think:
From Wolseley Plumb Centre
Jet Blue Plus.
Apply to male threads only.
Can be used on steel, aluminium, brass, copper, iron, polythene, PVC.
Recommended for threaded pipes carrying air, ammonia, brine, butane/propane CO2, dilute caustics, diesel, heating oils, natural gas, nitrogen, refrigerants, steam, water, helium hydraulic oil, inert gases, kerosene, LPG.
Working temperature -46C to 260C
Max working pressure 10000 psi liquids, 2000psi gases.
It cost me £12.40 for a 500g tub but I've got plenty of other future uses for it.
My tame welder just called past to deliver the two custom brackets (Big bore inlet mounting bracket and shifter cable bracket) and the manifold.
I'll post pictures when the brackets are painted, but really good work!
I need to give the manifold weld some attention with a dremel to smooth it off ( he didn't have a tool to get inside) but he's achieved great penetration into the crack.
The MoffMeister
22-06-2007, 20:30
good good all coming along now then be good to hear results etc of finished product
Forge didn't let me down! The postman came bright and early with a little package. I'd begged Forge to post me a coupler First Class yesterday - they sent it Special Delivery. :worship:
I discovered yesterday that Halfords don't sell G12 coolant - or G-anything for that matter. Mrs DPJ's task this morning....
No where's that Dremel?
The MoffMeister
23-06-2007, 09:50
goto dealer for g12 cost about 6 quid for the whole lot
goto dealer for g12 cost about 6 quid for the whole lot
Yep, wife is heading towards the VW dealer now. :thumbup:
Saturday 23/06/07
Well the heavens have just opened with a huge thunderstorm overhead. Call me brave, but I'm not staying out under this :scary:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/DPJ/GT28RS%20Install/P1010050.jpg
Photo of the manifold before tidying up.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/DPJ/GT28RS%20Install/P1010051-1.jpg
ATP shifter bracket on the left - our fabrication on the right. If it's correct, we'll remake it in 3mm plate.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/DPJ/GT28RS%20Install/P1010052.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/DPJ/GT28RS%20Install/P1010053.jpg
nice! i would like to see it done today! ;)
wild willy
23-06-2007, 12:10
DPJ, Its looking good.
Get your skates on or else i'll have no option but to take you up the stripe.:blink:
nice! i would like to see it done today! ;)
Give me until tommorow. :D
I want to get it right without rushing.
Here's the manifold finished. It's smoother than it looks, I couldn't get a decent shot.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/DPJ/GT28RS%20Install/P1010059.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/DPJ/GT28RS%20Install/P1010060.jpg
DPJ, Its looking good.
Get your skates on or else i'll have no option but to take you up the stripe.:blink:
:lol: Haha, yes I remember the prepubescent who threatened m0rk with that. :D
I was just lopping a chunk off the bottom of the compressor inlet on the turbo and the gearbox went in my B&Q pro 'dremel'
Now off on a 1hr round trip to B&Q for another :wave:
have you checked you can still get a bolt in the manifold?
have you checked you can still get a bolt in the manifold?
Yes Phil I have, but thanks for the reminder.
Borrowed young Miss Daisy's car to go to B&Q...... (Dad - it hasn't got any petrol in.....)
£39 odd for a Dremel, £42 odd for petrol. The pleasures of parenthood :rolleyes:
Been a bit held up this afternoon because I couldn't find the new turbo>DP gasket I bought a couple of weeks ago. Why I didn't put it with the other gaskets.. :rolleyes: An hour and a half turning corners of the house upside down, blaming everyone else :D. Still, it wouldn't be a DPJ project if it didn't involve losing a tool / object for an indeterminable period of time.
Got it now. Looking good for tomorrow.
Here's the custom mounting plate the ATP big bore sits on. There's a forward mounting point to drill and it has a downturn at the back corner that will take a bolt through the gearbox lug there.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/DPJ/GT28RS%20Install/P1010061.jpg
Then, the Big bore will bolt to the mounting plate
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/DPJ/GT28RS%20Install/P1010063.jpg
I also went back to the transmission to block gasket and spent a while grinding that back a bit further so that the turbo isn't touching.
cupra_matt
23-06-2007, 21:18
Looking good mate.
wild willy
24-06-2007, 08:32
Wakey, wakey, rise and shine DPJ :D, no sleeping in this morning, youve got a busy day a head of you.:whistle:
Consider me your project manager...... no slacking on the job :happy:
Wakey, wakey, rise and shine DPJ :D, no sleeping in this morning, youve got a busy day a head of you.:whistle:
Consider me your project manager...... no slacking on the job :happy:
:D Please can I just finish this bowl of cereal?
Right, you must've finished by now...
Where's the first pics?
:D
ibizacupra
24-06-2007, 11:30
Give me until tommorow. :D
I want to get it right without rushing.
Here's the manifold finished. It's smoother than it looks, I couldn't get a decent shot.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/DPJ/GT28RS%20Install/P1010059.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/DPJ/GT28RS%20Install/P1010060.jpg
bet it cracks again in short time. welding cast and it staying stuck is nigh on impossible.
not that you will see its crack when its all back on again.
out of sight... :whistle:
bet it cracks again in short time. welding cast and it staying stuck is nigh on impossible.
not that you will see its crack when its all back on again.
out of sight... :whistle:
I'm sure you're right Bill. Long term, need another solution.
Sunday 24/06/07
Right, you must've finished by now...
Where's the first pics?
:D
COME ON!!!! lol.
:roflmao: at the time on Feel's post.
Sorry chaps, getting the bracket mounted right so it can carry the big bore has taken longer than I thought it would.
Here's it all trial fitted (no turbo in) and the shifter cables work.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/DPJ/GT28RS%20Install/P1010064.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/DPJ/GT28RS%20Install/P1010065.jpg
I appear to be able to get all the gears, but not necessarily at the same time. :rolleyes: The cable lengths need a little adjustment. It's difficult to work it out when you're working on your own. :cry:
wild willy
24-06-2007, 12:59
Take your time matey, the little things can take the longest.
you just need to reset the linkage measurements. Follow the guides for installing a short shifter.
Take your time matey, the little things can take the longest.
you just need to reset the linkage measurements. Follow the guides for installing a short shifter.
Cheers Willy, you're right there! I've just spent close to two hours trying to remove the existing oil feed pipe for the turbo. It runs off the oil filter housing, round the side under all the coolant pipes and then round the back. I used up 18 rapist gloves and all the ***** out of my swearword box. :censored:
It's not looking good for finishing today. But hey, I'm off tomorrow. :D
Sunday 24/06/07
I didn't get the full day in I'd like to have done. :shrug:
Everything's double checked over now - I'm ready to throw it all on tomorrow.
Some of you may not have seen ATP's solution to drilling a hole in the wrong place on the big bore....... This is serious :rolleyes:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/DPJ/GT28RS%20Install/P1010066.jpg
Here's my solution - Plumbers Mait repair putty. I also took the opportunity to grind off some of ATP's bad casting....
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/DPJ/GT28RS%20Install/P1010067.jpg
Big Bore with its custom mounting bracket and the shifter cable bracket.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/DPJ/GT28RS%20Install/P1010068.jpg
Big Bore with Big Inlet and ATP TIP
(in a Big Brother Announcer voice) Elegant? You decide..... :roflmao:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/DPJ/GT28RS%20Install/P1010074.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/DPJ/GT28RS%20Install/P1010075.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/DPJ/GT28RS%20Install/P1010077.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/DPJ/GT28RS%20Install/P1010076.jpg
I'll have an 8:30 call tomorrow, please.
ibizacupra
24-06-2007, 18:44
hope its all worth it
fingers crossed for you
hope its all worth it
fingers crossed for you
Thanks Bill. :)
Two questions for you please......
My RamAir - is exactly the same as one for an LCR - except the LC kit has a reducer ring for the MAF? (Mine fits the S3 Maf housing ok without the ring)
Does the ABS body (the black cylinder that faces towards the turbo) get hot? The reason I ask is that the rubber on the ATP tip touches it).
Did you repair your intake with Plumbers mate? Thats a soft non setting putty..??
Surely you used something that sets ddin't you? A nice chunk of plumbers mate wont do your turbo much kop at 100krpm! !
Did you repair your intake with Plumbers mate? Thats a soft non setting putty..??
Surely you used something that sets ddin't you? A nice chunk of plumbers mate wont do your turbo much kop at 100krpm! !
:D
Plumbers Mait is a brand name. Although I do have a tub of the soft, putty like stuff, I used the repair stuff that sets hard as metal. It's handy, it will even set where it's wet. I made a permanent repair on an immersion cylinder a couple of years ago that would have cost £££ to replace otherwise.
wild willy
24-06-2007, 23:31
:ban: what time do you call this, off to sleep you. A very busy day awaits.
I turn my back for two minutes......:lol:
:ban: what time do you call this, off to sleep you. A very busy day awaits.
I turn my back for two minutes......:lol:
Sorry. :hide: I'll just finish this glass (cough - bottle ;) ) of wine and I'm off. There wasn't that much left in it, honest. :D
Ok, I'm up and ready for action...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/DPJ/GT28RS%20Install/P1010073.jpg
wild willy
25-06-2007, 08:03
:cop: oh no, looks like DPJ is at the more delicate stage of his tuning today.
Personally i'd stick with the dremel. :headhurt:
Currently taking great care over making up the oil and water connections on the turbo (not yet on the car).
Oil/ Water connections seem good.
m0rk, here's the reason the end of the charge pipe looked black - gasket, amd a restrictively fitted one at that.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/DPJ/GT28RS%20Install/P1010078.jpg
A little remedial work...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/DPJ/GT28RS%20Install/P1010079.jpg
nice, so you going to have it all done today?
nice, so you going to have it all done today?
:yes: hopefully.
lunch time update? c'mon dave no time for sandwiches, get typing!
Quick cuppa then :D
It's hell out there! It's pissing it down and the wind keeps blowing the ****ing pergola away. :rolleyes:
ATP manifold back in and torqued up. Just torquing the turbo to manifold and turbo to DP fixings.
you got all the lines in and attached?
It's a bit like Dave of the Antarctic.
"I'm going outside. I may be some time...."
It's a bit like Dave of the Antarctic.
"I'm going outside. I may be some time...."
:D
Scott, Wilson, Oates - not one of them called Dave....
Did you know all polar bears are left-handed and are called Dave?
Rain's stopped play. :cry:
It's too bad out there at the moment.
ibizacupra
25-06-2007, 14:17
Thanks Bill. :)
Two questions for you please......
My RamAir - is exactly the same as one for an LCR - except the LC kit has a reducer ring for the MAF? (Mine fits the S3 Maf housing ok without the ring)
Does the ABS body (the black cylinder that faces towards the turbo) get hot? The reason I ask is that the rubber on the ATP tip touches it).
yes same as you say aside from reducer.
ABS should not run hot no - touchy things tend to rub thru however..
ibizacupra
25-06-2007, 14:19
:D
Scott, Wilson, Oates - not one of them called Dave....
Did you know all polar bears are left-handed and are called Dave?
LMAO
http://badger-5.com/bin/ROFL.gif
I managed to get all the fluid lines connected up.
Still to do:
Fill fluids
Fit injectors
refit ecu.
I'm a bit wet and demoralised though - the induction side doesn't quite fit with the turbo in place.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/DPJ/GT28RS%20Install/P1010077.jpg
The red hose that connects to the compressor inlet keeps slipping off the oval big bore - looking at it, it's been cut down. It's actually a reducer hose. If it was an inch longer, I'm pretty confident it would work. I'll investigate what I can get tomorrow.
cupra_matt
25-06-2007, 17:46
DOH. dont let a tiny bit of silicone pipe get you down.
Get the rest done, only an hours work to do fluids, injectors and ECU then less to do toomorrow.
Good luck. You got a video camera for grand start up?
DOH. dont let a tiny bit of silicone pipe get you down.
Get the rest done, only an hours work to do fluids, injectors and ECU then less to do toomorrow.
Good luck.
Cheers Matt! I bounce back quickly and don't let things beat me for long. I think you've got to have persistence and determination to work on cars. :D
I've got proper work for the next three days. I should manage to squeeze in the other bits in the evenings though.
You got a video camera for grand start up?
That's a thought!
for now just dont bolt the inlet pipe flange right up to the back, just bolt it around 1cm so the hose clamp can hold the silicone on nice then will fee up some more slack for the oval side
cupra_matt
25-06-2007, 19:32
Who's mapping this for you?
Chemical Al
25-06-2007, 19:38
revo stage 3
for now just dont bolt the inlet pipe flange right up to the back, just bolt it around 1cm so the hose clamp can hold the silicone on nice then will fee up some more slack for the oval side
I spent an hour trying to make exactly that arrangement work, it won't stay on, but thanks for the thought.:) The hose has been cut short. I was driving half an hour ago and I had an idea to test - I brought the bits inside to try my theory.
The issue is that the centreline of the compressor inlet is 10-12mm lower than the centreline of the oval big bore. Because of that the hose needs a bit more length. I made the three pieces up and then tried to push the compressor inlet piece downward by that distance - it will go. The thing is, the shortened hose won't fit on each piece AND meet the diagonal gap.
Who's mapping this for you?
revo stage 3
Already flashed on my ECU.
Good luck dave, so close now you can smell the 99 ron. :D
Dont forget to prime the turbo as well.
Good luck dave, so close now you can smell the 99 ron. :D
Dont forget to prime the turbo as well.
:D
Thanks Phil, I don't know about 99, I can still smell oil after having the loose breather nearly shoved up my right nostril for two hours while I played intakes.
Yes, I'm going to turn the engine over a few times before I refit the ECU. ATP were rather extravagant on the length of the oil feed to the turbo, there's so much spare it's difficult to know where to put it. It would probably reach the engine of the car in front. :rolleyes:
Just looking at that again, its gonna be a lot easier for me to install the TIP as i dont have an oil breather to TIP, EVAP or anything apart from my DV.
Just looking at that again, its gonna be a lot easier for me to install the TIP as i dont have an oil breather to TIP, EVAP or anything apart from my DV.
It's all in the planning Phil. A few things less to worry about.. :yes:
I was kicking myself earlier for not stripping out the secondary air crap before now. It made it really hard to get at the oil feed point.
Also makes it a lot easier to get the oil filter off.
Really been enjoying this thread tho dave, nice to see some home diy done in not so perfect conditions instead of a lot of cheque book cars that happens.
.......... nice to see some home diy done in not so perfect conditions instead of a lot of cheque book cars that happens.
Good point! Forum members can read about people taking their cars to x to spend £y - with mediocre to great results.
There's a load of people here with a certain level of skill. Reading the right thing gives confidence to perhaps try something yourself. :shrug:
What I like about this forum is that there's a lot of honesty about when things don't go right, plus a lot of people to help when things go wrong. I don't think I would have set out to do this install if I didn't have confidence I could come here and ask......
wild willy
25-06-2007, 23:40
Nice work dave, nice to see some honest modding. I was told any idiot could change a turbo in 4 hours... took me between 12-16 :hide:over a weekend between family comitments. If it went too easy, you wouldn't appreciate it as much.
I'm sure a standard forge silicon reducer will do the trick for you... get the calipers out.
You've done so well on this project so far, I'm going to cut you some slack and allow you some time off.;)
just to ad some info on the forge silicone reducers, they will be bloody tight as forges silicone its just to high quality to make a total seal around the oval, its so hard to collaps and strech.
i would recomend something like venair from ebay. flimzy stuff that will mould around the oval nicer.
just a thought!
this should do the trick, im pretty sure the ID widths should be correct http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/STRAIGHT-REDUCER-SILICONE-HOSE-listed-size-76-63mm_W0QQitemZ180132177122QQihZ008QQcategoryZ72205QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem
Dave, can you do me a favour, whats the OD of the outlet pipe off the turbo? I need to sort out a silicone for that to my charge pipe. Thanks.
Nice work dave, nice to see some honest modding. I was told any idiot could change a turbo in 4 hours... took me between 12-16 :hide:over a weekend between family comitments. If it went too easy, you wouldn't appreciate it as much.
I'm sure a standard forge silicon reducer will do the trick for you... get the calipers out.
You've done so well on this project so far, I'm going to cut you some slack and allow you some time off.;)
Cheers for the kind words, Willy. :)
just to ad some info on the forge silicone reducers, they will be bloody tight as forges silicone its just to high quality to make a total seal around the oval, its so hard to collaps and strech.
i would recomend something like venair from ebay. flimzy stuff that will mould around the oval nicer.
just a thought!
That's the great thing about you guys. I go to bed, when I wake up there are really useful suggestions waiting for me. :funk: Thank you!
I think you're right there. I had a new 75mm Forge coupler in my hand this morning *(bit smaller than the oval) and it will squash to match the shape of the oval - but I don't think it would do the downward flex as well.
this should do the trick, im pretty sure the ID widths should be correct http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/STRAIGHT-REDUCER-SILICONE-HOSE-listed-size-76-63mm_W0QQitemZ180132177122QQihZ008QQcategoryZ72205QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem
I'll have a good look at that a little later. :)
Dave, can you do me a favour, whats the OD of the outlet pipe off the turbo? I need to sort out a silicone for that to my charge pipe. Thanks.
The piece I have that bolts on the compressor outlet is 63mm od, Phil.
this should do the trick, im pretty sure the ID widths should be correct http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/STRAIGHT-REDUCER-SILICONE-HOSE-listed-size-76-63mm_W0QQitemZ180132177122QQihZ008QQcategoryZ72205QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem
The ATP one I have is 80-63. The issue is whether I could squeeze 76 mm on the outlet. The coupler I held up against the oval earlier on is 70mm and it doesn't look that far off :shrug.
Forge do 80-70. I wonder if I'd get the 70mm to seal / stay on the 63mm inlet. :confused:
:think:
Perhaps I could cut cut a sleeve of 63mm hose, put it on the metal inlet, then use a 80-70 reducer with the 63mm sleeve inside the 70mm end.....
Are you saying the inlet drops down to a 63mm ID after the oval casting?
I thought it was 3" pipework not 2.5" Or have i got that wrong?
I'd go for the sleaving option personally.
Are you saying the inlet drops down to a 63mm ID after the oval casting?
I thought it was 3" pipework not 2.5" Or have i got that wrong?
I'd go for the sleaving option personally.
Yes Phil (it surprised me when I went to measure it) the compressor inlet on the turbo is 53mm id. The inlet that bolts onto it has the same id (but flares out at the end to meet the air) and 63mm od - it's straight. I believe there is an inlet that widens from 63mm to 75mm.
I'm warming to the idea of sleeving, I could perhaps glue one inside the other. The larger dia reducer (80-70 should have bit more flex than 70-63). I've emailed Peter at Forge to find out how long they are.
The reason i'm asking is do you actually need the 3" inlet kit, would that same result be acheived with a 75-63 reducer onto the turbo inlet then a hard pipe out of that which would sit above the shifter cables.
The reason i'm asking is do you actually need the 3" inlet kit, would that same result be acheived with a 75-63 reducer onto the turbo inlet then a hard pipe out of that which would sit above the shifter cables.
With the oem shifter cable bracket in place, the 75mm end of the reducer would be sitting smack against the bracket. The bracket is about 45mm tall, so you wouldn't get the 75mm pipe over the top.
Hmmm, i wonder if it can be done tho as a reducer will roughly be the same length as the fabircated 3" inlet you with the kit, so it will be like a 3" standard TIP in the path it follows.
I'm a bit lucky as i dont have various rubbish sat in the way such as combi valve and various pipework.
Hmmm, i wonder if it can be done tho as a reducer will roughly be the same length as the fabircated 3" inlet you with the kit, so it will be like a 3" standard TIP in the path it follows.
A very feasible alternative would be a 3" pipe straight off with a bridging bracket carrying the shifter cables above it.
Forge's 80-70 is 125mm long. - I'm going for that with a reducing sleeve inside. The shape of the Forge one 'should' suit what I'm trying to do better.
Lol. Bloody typical that dave.
I hope my rods dont take ages to come from the US either.
Lol. Bloody typical that dave.
I hope my rods dont take ages to come from the US either.
Yep, my silicon should have arrived today. :rolleyes:
I got my injectors in a week from USRT in the states - hopefully your rods will be similar. :)
Thats good to know. I'm gettin them from BoostFactory who are based in New Jersey so in theory they wont have to come across the width of america first.
Without the hoses that 'might' make it all come together, I set to on a few little jobs, including making a bolt that would hold the bottom of the compressor inlet flange to the turbo.
With the ATP big bore inlet and brackets out, I took time to weight the thing up. Long term, the big bore has got to go. I was about to set to with a grinder to lower its legs, but I decided I'd be better to leave it whole and flog it on ebay.
Here's the Big bore with my brackets.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/DPJ/GT28RS%20Install/P1010082.jpg
There is definitely room for a 70mm id hose to run underneath the shifter cable bracket if the bottom plate had a channel cut through it.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/DPJ/GT28RS%20Install/P1010086.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/DPJ/GT28RS%20Install/P1010087.jpg
I need to get some plates fabricated that would then carry the shifter cable bracket over the top, using the mounting points of the bottom plate.
Strange too, ATP claim it's 3" ovalised. :think: If you look at the following, it's smaller than a 70mm hose. ;)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/DPJ/GT28RS%20Install/P1010084.jpg
wild willy
29-06-2007, 17:03
That looks good Dave, why won't it work. you can use some steel band it to secure the round to the oval.
I've been trying to persuede Forge to manufacture a Big turbo solution to intakes. The majority of their silcon standard fitments should do the trick, they just need to manufacture a mid section to deal with all the branch pipework.
That looks good Dave, why won't it work. you can use some steel band it to secure the round to the oval.
I've been trying to persuede Forge to manufacture a Big turbo solution to intakes. The majority of their silcon standard fitments should do the trick, they just need to manufacture a mid section to deal with all the branch pipework.
I think it'll work Willy if the Forge reducer I've ordered will flex sufficiently to go from oval to compressor inlet. That'll get it on the road.
I'm going to get a one piece bridge-bracket made though that'll go over a round pipe. Surely the bigger the straight pipe I can get on the compressor, the easier I'll make power. :shrug:
I agree on the DIY approach to making a good TIP. ATP's ain't pretty (below) , but it's functional. I'm sure the concept could be improved on.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/DPJ/GT28RS%20Install/P1010077.jpg
While checking things over, I was alarmed at how close the turbo oil drain pipe was to the driveshaft coupling. I decided I'd take the pipe off again and apply a bit of heat while I bent it upwards a bit.
Great, lost the ****ing gasket off the turbo end. Tomorrow morning, I will mainly be out shopping for gasket material. :rolleyes:
*** For anyone looking at installing a GT28RS, the two boltholes that secure the oil drain are M8, but the holes in the KO3S oil drain (and K03S) are M6. If you've bought an ATP kit, there should be two studs that are M8>M6. Mine weren't there and I've read on Vortex that they can be missing. I drilled the oil drain holes out so I could use M8 socket head screws.
*** For anyone looking at installing a GT28RS, the two boltholes that secure the oil drain are M8, but the holes in the KO3S oil drain (and K03S) are M6. If you've bought an ATP kit, there should be two studs that are M8>M6. Mine weren't there and I've read on Vortex that they can be missing. I drilled the oil drain holes out so I could use M8 socket head screws.
the studs are cheese metal anyway, I cross threaded it by hand.. - did exactly as you have there
the studs are cheese metal anyway, I cross threaded it by hand.. - did exactly as you have there
Cheers Mark. Oh well, if there's something to be cross threaded, I'd have done it. :rolleyes:
Should I be ok with an average gasket paper on the oil drain? I've read that 0.8mm is good for 290 degrees.
traumapat
01-07-2007, 22:05
great write up dave. keeping everything crossed:)
Thanks Pat!
As has been said elsewhere, you can't contemplate doing this sort of thing without having full use of another vehicle. The days turn into weeks. I've just lost a full weekend due to the postal strike. I decided not to waste my time chasing after gasket paper - and ordered a gasket to arrive tomorrow.
The job is currently stuck for
*a reducer hose to go between ATP big bore and compressor inlet.
*oil drain hose gasket
*an injector retaining clip.
Longer term it needs,
*one piece shifter cable bridge bracket fabricating.
*Forge LCR FMIC fitting and plumbing in.
Ruddmeister
02-07-2007, 08:52
Well I've just been away for a week so just catching up on reading last weekend onwards, have to say your doing a great job.....keep going.....you know the way these things work lots of slog then it will all come together in a flash ;)
Keep us updated ;)
Well I've just been away for a week so just catching up on reading last weekend onwards, have to say your doing a great job.....keep going....... Cheers Steve. :)
Ok, hoses turned up.
Sleeved inlet, ATP old hose and Forge reducer
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/DPJ/GT28RS%20Install/P1010088.jpg
Blue Peter stuff. Maybe slightly long - but I think I've got the angle
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/DPJ/GT28RS%20Install/P1010090.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/DPJ/GT28RS%20Install/P1010091.jpg
Will see if I can make it fit on the car later.
Ahhhh, now I see what your problem was.
Forge reducer has plenty of length (fnarr-fnarr).
I was going to say that if it doesn't work permanently and if your tame welder can do ally, you could hack the inlet adaptor and point if to the right angle.
But from what you said before, if this doesn't work you'll be designing your own inlet...
So this is the only thing stopping the car being started now dave?
When you get chance any chance you could take a few pics for me of the inlet bolted to the turbo and the room between that and the shifter cables. I wanna make make my mind up whether its worth goin DIY on the inlet or buying it.
Ahhhh, now I see what your problem was.
Forge reducer has plenty of length (fnarr-fnarr).
I was going to say that if it doesn't work permanently and if your tame welder can do ally, you could hack the inlet adaptor and point if to the right angle.
But from what you said before, if this doesn't work you'll be designing your own inlet...
Too easy to stick an elbow on the outlet a la TIP, Phil. A nice fat
straight length of hose (Fnarr-Fnarr) looks the neatest solution, but you need to carry a rock solid shifter cable mount over the top.
So this is the only thing stopping the car being started now dave?
When you get chance any chance you could take a few pics for me of the inlet bolted to the turbo and the room between that and the shifter cables. I wanna make make my mind up whether its worth goin DIY on the inlet or buying it.
Yes Phil, apart from refitting the oil drain.
I'm not quite with you on which shots you need. Please be as specific as you can and I'll try my best. :)
But does this apply to Phil? I mean you've only had these hoops to jump through because your a six speed?
I wonder if you could either lengthen the cables so they can take a different path, coming in more from the battery side? I mean to take off both shifter "cams" and turn them 90' clockwise, then bring the cables in from that side - would it bring the cables round the back of the TIP.
Or, more crazily, extend the pins on the shifter cams to raise the cables up out of the way?
Might make for a sloppy gear change though.
Ok, i'm after a photo of the room between the turbo inlet and shifter assembly. Basically the room i got to play with.
If its easier dave, email them to p.warren@tiscali.co.uk.
I know what you mean feel, it might be a lot easier for the 5 speed O2J. I'm thinkin of using a 3" reducer or elbow reducer onto the TIP and use some 3" pipework to the MAF.
Had a little time last night to try to fit the inlet - and it's on. Extremely tight - from above.....
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/DPJ/GT28RS%20Install/P1010095.jpg
With the whole inlet tract assembled, my RamAir points upward at a strange angle. I need to do a little connector modification up top. :rolleyes:
I put the shifter bracket and cables back on. The engine side shifter cable end clamp is rubbing a small rubber coolant pipe. I need to see if I can alter the pipe so that it doesn't stick out so much.
Oil drain back on tonight, hopefully.
PhilW - in the above photo, the flange on the turbo is 25mm, there's 27mm between the flange and the oval inlet, then the tip of the oval inlet to the 'rise' of the first shifter bracket hole is 50mm. The engine side shifter cable is running directly over the top of the clip on the oval inlet.
I'm sure you've done your best (better than all the rest), but that made me cringe a leeeetle bit.
Especially considering the ovalness of the ATP Casting.
Is the casting good quality - do you think it's weldable?
feel, what tranny you got? well at the end of the day its a bit messy, but if its tight its fine, maybe softer silicone would work better?! but likei say if it holds and its tight then i would not worry.
my elim kit will be up for sale soon as its in having a custom manifold, dp, and intake made up for my gt2871r. should make around 370bhp with quicker spool than the eliminator.
thanks
myk3
I'm sure you've done your best (better than all the rest), but that made me cringe a leeeetle bit.
Especially considering the ovalness of the ATP Casting.
Is the casting good quality - do you think it's weldable?
It's more Ebayable than weldable, Phil. It hasn't got a long term future on my car.
I need to get the car back on the road. At a convenient point, I'll take the oval inlet and brackets off and replace them with a bridging bracket over a straight pipe.
Hmmm. Very tight then, thanks for the info. I wonder how far the shifter brackets will be from the turbo inlet on mine.
You know the inlet that bolts to the turbo, you think a different version like this would clear the shifter brackets...?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v147/philwarren11/part4.jpg
Yes Phil, I reckon something like that would fit (as would a 63mm silicon elbow on the flange). I understood the reason for not having an elbow near the compressor inlet on BTs was because they throttled the air supply....
Yeah i read that any degree bends cuts airflow by a certain percentage. But whatever way you look at it your going to have some serious bends just because of the low down position of the inlet on the turbo. I might have drawn it a little acute but you might be able to get away with a large degree bend off the turbo, to get up and over the shifter bracket.
Personally i cant see it bein too bad as IHI uses a standard TIP design to get up to the MAF and the ATP inlet kit goes through a 90 degree bend. And doesnt Robdon use a cobra head 90 on his GT2X?
Food for thought anyway.
Yeah i read that any degree bends cuts airflow by a certain percentage. But whatever way you look at it your going to have some serious bends just because of the low down position of the inlet on the turbo. I might have drawn it a little acute but you might be able to get away with a large degree bend off the turbo, to get up and over the shifter bracket.
Personally i cant see it bein too bad as IHI uses a standard TIP design to get up to the MAF and the ATP inlet kit goes through a 90 degree bend. And doesnt Robdon use a cobra head 90 on his GT2X?
Food for thought anyway.
Any idea what bore ATP's inlet kit is near the compressor inlet?
By the time mine turns 90 degrees, it's over 80mm dia.
I googled ATP big inlet and the third item down says
DPJ's GT28RS Eliminator Install - Page 7 - SEAT Cupra.netWith the ATP big bore inlet and brackets out, I took time to weight the thing up. Long term, the big bore has got to go. I was about to set to with a ...
www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?p=1451564 - 139k -
:roflmao:
Standard bore on the turbo inlet on the GT28RS? I thought you knew that dave as you had it sleeved to take it to 3"
I'm sure people have used this in a similar way i was talking about...
http://www.atpturbo.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=ATP-SIL-251&Category_Code=SIL-90EL
Forge do a 76mm to 63 reducing elbow, which if the stock inlet diameter is 63mm it would be perfect to get up and out of the inlet and into a 3" pipe.
wild willy
04-07-2007, 17:06
Any idea what bore ATP's inlet kit is near the compressor inlet?
By the time mine turns 90 degrees, it's over 80mm dia.
I googled ATP big inlet and the third item down says
:roflmao:
Dave, you are now offically the world expert on the installation of the eliminator turbo and large bore inlet. :D
Standard bore on the turbo inlet on the GT28RS? I thought you knew that dave as you had it sleeved to take it to 3"
I'm sure people have used this in a similar way i was talking about...
http://www.atpturbo.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=ATP-SIL-251&Category_Code=SIL-90EL
Forge do a 76mm to 63 reducing elbow, which if the stock inlet diameter is 63mm it would be perfect to get up and out of the inlet and into a 3" pipe.
Looking at the Leon (tonight) you'd only get a tightly turned TIP on, or something odd like ATP's inlet (surely modelled on SPT ! ) there isn't room for a nice smooth bend.
Dave, you are now offically the world expert on the installation of the eliminator turbo and large bore inlet. :D
:D
In the same way Dr Frankenstein led his area of expertise....
Dave been thinking, did you use the gasket that came with the manifold or an OEM one from the dealers?
Read this.... re: the gaskets
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2808178
Dave been thinking, did you use the gasket that came with the manifold or an OEM one from the dealers?
Read this.... re: the gaskets
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2808178
I used the ATP supplied one when I fitted the manifold Dec 06 and it failed 7k miles later with a 9mm gap mising at the back. I've fitted a dealer supplied one this time. My concern isn't really about gasket failure, it's that I'll end up with bolts snapped off in the turbo again.... :scary:
I managed to give it some attention this afternoon.
I quickly decided that I wasn't going to get the engine side bolt in that holds the oil drain to the bottom of the turbo. I undid the driveshaft coupling, but the driveshaft wouldn't clear the drive flange. A quick email to m0rk and the answer came back to undo the bottom ball joint plate from the wishbone. With the driveshaft to one side, it was easy to refit the oil drain.
***Tip for future installers, take the oil drain off the car and fit it to the turbo before you put the turbo down the back. You'd need to have the driveshaft uncoupled otherwise there wouldn't be sufficient clearance for fitting the turbo.
Tightened the driveshaft back up and then managed to completely slip the ball joint bracket off the end of the wishbone. With a nice stiff ARB on, the bracket was sitting 3" lower than the wishbone. I had to undo the droplink and f*** about with a jack and leverage to get it back on. (much harder with the wheel still on) The joys of working on your own. :rolleyes:
I checked the gap between the driveshaft coupling and the bottom of the oil drain. 4mm! :scary: I decided I'd just see what happened if I refitted the curved shield that goes over the coupling. I managed to get it on but the coupling rubs it. It's plastic with heatproof material on the top to protect the rubber boot. The catching wasn't too bad, so I thought I'd just let the coupling wear it's way into it when the car was running. I had second thoughts about this later. I'm going to cut the shield through where it touches the oil drain as it's obviously this that's pushing it against the coupling.
I then spent 2 hours f***ing about with the little hose that is below the coolant temperature sensor as one of the shifter cables was rubbing on it. I couldn't position it any more towards the engine, so I ended up removing my shifter cable bracket and drilling new mounting holes so the bracket would sit 12mm further out. I refitted the cables. I'm not 100% happy with the angle of the cables but that can be resolved when I build a new bracket. I'm quite pleased with the feel of the change, it's not nearly as stiff as I thought it might be.
I've checked over all the turbo connections. The least satisfactory part is the air intake. My RamAir is actually touching the inner wing. I'll need to try and find a bit of slack somewhere so it doesn't transmit shocks to the MAF.
Tomorrow morning, I should be able to reconnect the charge side and fire up....
wild willy
06-07-2007, 23:19
Good luck Dave,
Don't forget oil, coolant and to prime turbo with oil.
Once the car gets warm the coolant level will probably drop (like mine did) causing a dash warning light to illuminate and bleep, at which point you'll shite yourself thinking your loosing coolant, so take some coolant with you on your test run.
Personally I'd let it idle 10 mins before driving so that any faults should show themselves. Stay off the main roads with your test run so you can pull over in safety if you need to. Run it in for a min of 30 miles before giving full beans. :)
cupra_matt
07-07-2007, 00:25
Good luck mate, get that video camera out for the grand start up.
wild willy
07-07-2007, 13:21
Hope all is well. ;)
Lots of hard work, but you're doing a great job Dave. Nice to see someone with an eye for detail. Hope it goes well tomorrow.
All these people that say "can't understand why X's turbo is sooo expensive" ought to read this thread...
Nightmare of a day! Had to modify quite a few things. Bolt on kit, my arse!
It's running now - seems ok.[B)]:funk:
We've just had guests turn up (of the staying/partying kind) so I'll have to post a full report late tomorrow or Monday.
Thanks for the support guys!
The MoffMeister
07-07-2007, 18:42
well its taken long enough lol well done
David_smith_909
08-07-2007, 00:01
Well done mate, been watching this thread closely
wow thats the best time ever for me to find an interesting thread :)
Just spent the last half hour reading all the progress............ Quality work there mate.. My hat is off to you :thumbup:
Cant wait to see the write up :D
It's running now - seems ok.[B)]:funk:
:clap:
Edit: Now we just need to convince you to loose the body kit :whistle:
:clap:
Edit: Now we just need to convince you to loose the body kit :whistle:
:lol::lol::lol:
Glad its a runner tho dave, even tho i was expecting more of a post with smilies, but i guess your just glad its done.
:clap:
Edit: Now we just need to convince you to loose the body kit :whistle:
:roflmao:
perhaps BT power will blow it off!
Interesting point. I bought a 30 month old car with 20k on the clock for not a lot of money. Why - because the bodykit made it cheap. I've come so close to taking it off loads of times... mainly haven't because I've had to spend the £££ on the kids' cars instead. :shrug:
It's fated to look that way - as it has from birth!
Actually, the next stage of the saga is interesting. I'm going to throw it open. Seriously what do we do next to maximise performance?
To start......
I intend to do some logs and then put up an 60-100. I'll pay for two RR runs at any point. suggestions? The intake side is shoite and I'll put up some photos to show you - I have ideas for improvements and i'll discuss.
Own up, - I'd forgotten but my downpipe is 2.5". I was persuaded on the custom build that it was good for much more bhp. It's now booked in at Pipewerx end of this month for a 3" DP.
Please throw ideas and suggestions at me.
Triple D
08-07-2007, 19:53
Buy A DiEsel Maybe?
Buy A DiEsel Maybe?
Yes, I'm looking at getting a dumper truck or even a bobcat next year.
I'm a petrolhead though, so I know where my adrenalin rush will be coming from.. :D
I bet the intake is alright for performance, really. Might change my mind when I see it though :D
You want an equal length manifold, you do...
Aquamist? Let you run more timing, can you fiddle with the settings on Stage3?
(a)I bet the intake is alright for performance, really. Might change my mind when I see it though :D
(b)You want an equal length manifold, you do...
(c)Aquamist? (d) Let you run more timing, can you fiddle with the settings on Stage3?
(a) pukka ATP phil and it's probably ok - it looks a right abortion though. :rolleyes:
(b) yes. and yes. That's the bugger - A DIY installer could whop on a manifold and turbo - but then you need a custom DP and your car is sat in your garage with no way of getting to the exhaust manufacturer....... In fact I've just answered my own question. Get the car trailered there and you're still looking at workably cheap solution.. :shrug:
(c) Do you think I should be looking at Aquamist early on?
(d) I assume so. I keep meaning to ask Kev if it's still got the basic Revo-off map.
(e) Intercooler. All being well, I'll fit the LCR FMIC in a couple of weeks. Charge out between battery and engine. (Thanks for the offer of your old charge pipe, Phil - can I unreserve it :) ) The FMIC may not fit behind the pre-facelift bumper & lower skirt - or get enough air. Some hacking/modification may be required - or even :scary: an lcr front!
d) yes - a lot..... don't start it on like HB9 T7
start low.....
d) yes - a lot..... don't start it on like HB9 T7
start low.....
:D absolutely! DP & IC initially point to getting/looking for a smooth ?260/270 ? on conservative settings and working up from there.
Well, I've just sat and read this whole thread and really enjoyed it, the up's and down's and all.
It's a sterling job youv'e done there Dave, well done.
Looking forward to seeing it at the next RR.
Can you get REVO Select for Stage 3? That or Lemmiwinks i reckon with some water/meth, not aquamist but Snow Performance kit.
Get a 3" downpipe with removable cat as well.
SNIFF MY DIFF!!! Diff has gotta be done as well.
And as m0rk said, you gotta start the settings down low as your only running standard internals so be careful as i think this turbo setup will be on the limit.
Hows the clutch as well?
wild willy
08-07-2007, 22:52
Congratulations.:) Now the hard work begins, lots of loging and tweaking. :funk:
open up the ports in the head to get more flow, 3" dp and large inlet, this is your next bottle neck, then it would be inlet manifold
this all depends on how hard you are working the turbo tho (flow/pressure)
good work though dave :thumbup:
Plenty of food for thought, guys, thank you!
The issues I encountered on Saturday which took some time were:
Driveshaft coupling shield. This protects the rubber boot on the inner joint from the heat of the turbo, and I suppose prevents grease being thrown on the turbine where it could burn. I cut a notch out of it for the oil drain to fit into, but the shield is still just being kissed by the coupling. I think the flexi part of the oil drain may be making the shield distort slightly. I've decided I need to get the trusty mirror out to try to pinpoint the problem.
I discovered a coolant leak on the coolant return flexi and I suspected the flexi was damaged. I'd spent ages checking the connections before I put the turbo on the car. I finally discovered there was one nut I hadn't tightened. :rolleyes:
The compressor outlet on the turbo is about 90mm further across to the passenger side than the K03S outlet. ATP supply a short piece of hose and a coupler to bridge the gap to the charge pipe. When fitted, it was too long and when everything was tightened, the elbow hose on the compressor outlet was kinking. The only thing that could be trimmed was the elbow hose so that lost 12mm. Temporary fitment.
I turned the engine over many times without the ECU in to circulate oil and get rid of any airlocks in the coolant system. I kept having to top up the coolant between bouts.
Road tests and initial logging start tonight. I must remember to put my wiper arms back on.
charlietruman
09-07-2007, 13:43
Dave, really fantastic job!
I wish i had the right level of understanding and tools to attempt my GTRS install but i dont so i am having JKM do it, getting a little concered that the install cost is going to go through the roof, taking into consideration the amount of custom work involved in getting this "bolt on" turbo to fit!
Good luck tonight! i will be awaiting your results with anticipation!
will let you know when mine is finished, still need to find an S3 MAF housing yet!
David_smith_909
09-07-2007, 13:55
Fantastic ........ the fun now begins ;)
all the best mate, top job so far !
I had another look at the driveshaft shield tonight - I decided it was the coolant flexi return that was pushing the shield against the driveshaft coupling slightly. Bright lights and mirror and :scary: - a small coolant leak on the banjo on the block - AND I'd misplaced the gasket on the oil return on the base of the turbo - just as in the following picture!
http://tyrolsport.com/gtisetup/IMG_0442.jpg
(The picture above is a 5 speed. My 6 speed has a much bigger coupling with the bolts running right underneath the oil drain!)
I dropped the driveshaft again and located the oil drain gasket without any oil loss. A bucket under the back of the engine, undid the banjo and I managed to catch 90% of the coolant. I redid the banjo with some better copper washers.
Fire up and warm up - no leaks this time. The smell of new gaskets etc on a warming engine is always a little alarming - but no probs.
Axle stands out, go to drive it off the ramps..... Can't quite get reverse. I pushed it off the ramps for safety, adjusted the shifter cable slightly and reverse is easy.
SPS3 out. - Revo on - LB5, T5.
Went for a 1 mile drive. Then a two mile drive, then 3 miles. Then 3 5-milers. Each time, I brought it home, bonnet up to check all looked ok.
Sorry, I haven't done any logs tonight, I've decided to let it settle in gently for a few days.
I am one happy bunny! [B)]:funk::D
The car is a nice smooth drive as before. No issues with the gearchange - it doesn't feel any different to before.
The sound of the turbo is awesome, like an air raid siren starting up. It doesn't feel laggy and **** me, it pulls like a train! I haven't pushed it hard for long, but the car has a LOT more poke and the induction sound is also really good. No error codes.
I am really looking forward to tweaking this up. :rock:
A big thanks to everyone here who has given me the moral support to get it done. I also have to say, thank you Revo! I'm so impressed that the flashed stage 3 can come on your ecu in the post.
cupra_matt
09-07-2007, 22:01
Fantatic mate, you gotta be chuffed.
You getting on the rollers soon?
NICE WORK. Well done you!!!!
If you dont mind me asking, where abouts do you live?
Fantatic mate, you gotta be chuffed.
You getting on the rollers soon?
NICE WORK. Well done you!!!!
If you dont mind me asking, where abouts do you live?
I'm gutted about yours though Matt. I hope you can come up with a workable solution.
Well yes, I'm well pleased with myself tonight. Not bad for a cack-hander without a garage on a gravel drive.
I've got to build the pipework for the FMIC next. Then I'll look at getting it on the rollers.
I'm just near Scotch Corner, I know Carlisle quite well.
wild willy
09-07-2007, 22:29
All worth while :D i love it when a plan comes together.
You can't beat the feeling of watching wispy smoke emitting from the turbo area of the engine bay and thinking b**tard a gasget is blowing, when minutes latter you realise / hope its the WD40.....Like wining the lottery.;)
Edit: Dave I recon your so pleased with yourself you've had to put your balls in a wheel barrow to get around they're so big now. :lol:
cupra_matt
09-07-2007, 22:31
Scotch corner, not that far away.
Bet your not as gutted as me about mine, but in the end it will come together iam sure. Just gonna be even longer.
cack-hander LOL
wild willy
09-07-2007, 22:34
Scothch corner, not that far away.
Bet your not as gutted as me about mine, but in the end it will come together iam sure. Just gonna be even longer.
cack-hander LOL
Matt, good things come to those who wait ;).
cupra_matt
09-07-2007, 22:51
I really hope so mate.
I've heard about the return on the driveshaft casing, what the guy on vortex done was to bend it slightly, thats it.
Gotta love what the higher settings are gonna be like if you only ran LB9 T5. I bet something more up the settings would be awesome. Just watch your rods! lol.
Really pleased for you tho dave, been awesome reading it, and chipping in now and again so i can understand whats goin on for my own install. Well done mate. :D
I've heard about the return on the driveshaft casing, what the guy on vortex done was to bend it slightly, thats it.
Gotta love what the higher settings are gonna be like if you only ran LB9 T5. I bet something more up the settings would be awesome. Just watch your rods! lol.
Really pleased for you tho dave, been awesome reading it, and chipping in now and again so i can understand whats goin on for my own install. Well done mate. :D
I bent mine off the car, Phil. A bit of heat and I found a socket that fitted snugly down the pipe. Extension on socket and heave. I probably got it from 97 degrees to 92 degrees. :shrug:
:D LB5 Phil. Woosh!:D
This forum has really helped me in planning what I did. I feel I might have had a far less structured approach otherwise.
Looking forward to you starting yours. (BTW the gorgeous manifold found a new owner this weekend as I'm sticking with the LC inlet manifold layout.)
wild willy
09-07-2007, 23:35
I've heard about the return on the driveshaft casing, what the guy on vortex done was to bend it slightly, thats it.
Gotta love what the higher settings are gonna be like if you only ran LB9 T5. I bet something more up the settings would be awesome. Just watch your rods! lol.
Really pleased for you tho dave, been awesome reading it, and chipping in now and again so i can understand whats goin on for my own install. Well done mate. :D
hey Phil, as one project reaches the end another one starts. am looking forward to your install. Being swansea based i can come and spur you on if we catch you slacking or performing any dodgy 1.8T DIY. ;)
Lol. Not sure where in swansea your from but my car is down that way now, in CAM Sport in Cwgors. Full rebuild with some Scat rods thrown in so i can crank up the boost. Waiting to go on are... 310mm Wilwood 4 pots, lightened and balanced ABF flywheel, Stage 3 SPEC clutch, H+R ARB's, quaife diff and colour coded bump strips, just need a car for them to go on. Will be going for the same eliminator turbo and manifold with a custom TIP i reckon, just need to get my car back to check out the space etc...
I seen you sold it dave, that mani is funny, when its on the car it looks awesome, but when your handling it its not great as the underside isnt polished. But you never see that. Did the new owner like it?
Lol. Not sure where in swansea your from but my car is down that way now, in CAM Sport in Cwgors. Full rebuild with some Scat rods thrown in so i can crank up the boost. Waiting to go on are... 310mm Wilwood 4 pots, lightened and balanced ABF flywheel, Stage 3 SPEC clutch, H+R ARB's, quaife diff and colour coded bump strips, just need a car for them to go on. Will be going for the same eliminator turbo and manifold with a custom TIP i reckon, just need to get my car back to check out the space etc...
If It's there, you should get your thread started, Phil. Can you get in regularly to get photos?
Apologies for the quality of the following pics. I thought I'd give you an idea of what the induction looks like on the car. You can see how tight the RamAir is against the battery case and wing. The bubblewrap cushion is actually holding it away from the wing!
Once the intercooling is done, I need to sort the induction and then do a bit of engine tidying. The giveaway is the position of the dump valve.
Spot the red hose between the MAF and the metal tip! That was the ATP reducer that was supposed to go between oval and turbo!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/DPJ/GT28RS%20Install/P1010102.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/DPJ/GT28RS%20Install/P1010101.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/DPJ/GT28RS%20Install/P1010100.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/DPJ/GT28RS%20Install/P1010098.jpg
all looks good mate.. well done.
your induction kit looks as cramped as it would on an LCR now :)
Ruddmeister
10-07-2007, 10:31
Well done Dave, fine job......I know what you mean about the planning and you are right to get things sorted and planned (and have a contingency) upfront.
Currently planning some Home DIY 37inch LCD TV on an Articulated wall mount suspended off a wall with no cables showing....30+kg's at 0.5m off the wall on a plasterboard wall......again it's all in the planning.
I guess getting the induction kit properly mounted is a priority as you could do without loosing another MAF to excess vibration.....I assume you'll be keeping a close eye on this whilst logging otherwise a low reading MAF would be a nightmare :rolleyes:
Well done Dave, fine job......I know what you mean about the planning and you are right to get things sorted and planned (and have a contingency) upfront.
Currently planning some Home DIY 37inch LCD TV on an Articulated wall mount suspended off a wall with no cables showing....30+kg's at 0.5m off the wall on a plasterboard wall......again it's all in the planning.
I guess getting the induction kit properly mounted is a priority as you could do without loosing another MAF to excess vibration.....I assume you'll be keeping a close eye on this whilst logging otherwise a low reading MAF would be a nightmare :rolleyes:
Cheers Steve! Those articulated mounts are cool - haven't got one but that's the way I'd go. How are you doing it? I think on a stud wall, I'd take a section of plasterboard out, fix some bearers into the stud, then fix a piece of 15 or18mm ply over that, with the plasterboard back over the top.
The Maf is interesting as it's scaled. I have no idea what it should be reading on vag-com at the moment. :rolleyes:
Ruddmeister
10-07-2007, 10:54
Cheers Steve! Those articulated mounts are cool - haven't got one but that's the way I'd go. How are you doing it? I think on a stud wall, I'd take a section of plasterboard out, fix some bearers into the stud, then fix a piece of 15 or18mm ply over that, with the plasterboard back over the top.
The Maf is interesting as it's scaled. I have no idea what it should be reading on vag-com at the moment. :rolleyes:
Didn't really mean to go O/T but similar to what you suggested.......sharing an office with 3 construction site managers and a project manager and access to a buying department for a Regional office of a National Construction firm kinda helped my planning :cartman:
Didn;t realise the MAF was scaled...kinda blows my mind when they start talking about scaling / fooling the ECU.....I guess if it works, it works :cartman:
If It's there, you should get your thread started, Phil. Can you get in regularly to get photos?
Its about 45-1hrs drive away unfortunatly, but check my sig as i always keep a project diary of stuff i've done.
I'll take loads of photos when i do the install tho. Goin for a 3" BF decat as well i forgot along with S3 fuel pump and genesis 550ccs and Revo Stage 3 like you. Also throwing in a wideband for peace of mind.
As a result of the latest mods, my insurance has gone up £40 pa. :D
Chemical Al
10-07-2007, 14:48
As a result of the latest mods, my insurance has gone up £40 pa. :D
lol, you must be gutted :D
My plan this weekend was to get some logging done on Vag-com, setting myself some datum logs and understand what I was dealing with. All in preparation for the more serious stuff when proper intercooler and 3" dp installed etc.
Mrs DPJ has been looking after the car this week as I didn't want to commute with it yet.
Got home at 5. Grabbed the laptop, plugged the Vag-Com cable in the laptop. Raining. Rushed out to the car clutching laptop and climbed in.
:censored: Electric seat very close to the steering wheel, ouch. Then I realised I'd snapped the dongle connector off the PCMCIA RS232 card that my Vag-Com lead attaches to. No logging for me this weekend. :doh: :doh: :doh:
Online (ebay) plenty of cards from Hong Kong for a £12 total if I can wait 9/10 working days. Otherwise, £70+ from uk companies. I bit the bullet and bought from the only UK Ebay supplier for £33 :rolleyes:
:cry::cry:
What a punt in the c u nt dave.
How many miles it done so far now?
What a punt in the c u nt dave.
How many miles it done so far now?
About 30 Phil.
The temptation is to get out and drive it, but I must take it easy until I've seen the logs. I must (self-hypnosis). I had one swift blast tonight and my impression is that it's really holding the boost waaay up the range. :D
Did you get my reply email about fuel pumps, I rather think you missed it....
All appears ok, no leaks now. Did a few miles today and it's fine. (The sound of the turbo off boost is lovely, like a huge hair drier running up and down in response to the throttle).
I'm mainly looking for rubbing issues now. Nothing serious - the heater pipes snake behind the turbo. Has anyone an idea why it's designed that way - to pick up heat? They run through heatshield woven material as standard. Now, that material is touching my compressor outlet - am I likely to have a problem?
Fuel consumption.... before, I had to fill the car up twice a week. Today, I filled it up for the first time in six weeks. :roflmao:
Dave, if you can resend it i'll have a look.
I'm on msn as well if you use that, check my profile. Glad its running sweet tho. :D
Just noticed this thread, awesome work mate.
Replacement RS232 card arrived for the laptop so I thought I'd do the first logs.
Revo Stage 3
LB9 T5
Outside temps 18 degrees.
Don't forget - No FMIC - running through existing small pipework (FMIC install this weekend), 2.5" DP (3" being fitted 3rd August), CAI & intake not ideal yet :rolleyes: MAF rescaled.
Group A: '003 Group B: '020
Idle speed Air mass in Throt Angle Ignit Angle Idle Stabilization Idle Stabilization Idle Stabilization Idle Stabilization
700-820 rpm 2.0-4.5 g/s 0.2-4.0% 0-12 BTDC
/min g/s % °BTDC CF CF CF CF
2480 40.06 94.5 25.5 0 0 0 0
2680 46.22 100 26.3 0 3 0 3
2880 55.67 100 25.5 0 3 0 3
3120 64.39 100 21.8 0 3 0 3
3400 75.67 100 21.8 0 2.3 0 2.3
3720 90.44 100 19.5 0 2.3 0 2.3
4000 104.92 100 18.8 0 1.5 0 1.5
4360 123.31 100 16.5 0 1.5 0 1.5
4680 139.72 100 12 0 1.5 0 1.5
5080 164.14 100 8.3 0 0.8 0 0.8
5440 174.14 100 12 0 0.8 0 0.8
5720 179.92 100 11.3 0 0.8 0 0.8
6040 187.58 100 12.8 0 0 0 0
6240 190.36 100 12.8 0 0 0 0
Group A: '115 Group B: '031
Engine Speed Engine Load Spec. Boost Actual Boost Lambda Factor Lambda Factor
700-6800 RPM 15-150% 990-1800 mbar <=1800 mbar
/min % mbar mbar
2400 84.2 1630 1200 0.977 1
2640 89.5 1740 1270 0.977 0.977
2840 95.5 1850 1330 0.945 0.945
3120 102.3 1960 1410 0.899 0.899
3360 111.3 2040 1500 0.836 0.836
3640 120.3 2130 1620 0.813 0.828
3960 131.6 2210 1810 0.813 0.828
4280 142.1 2230 1970 0.797 0.813
4640 155.6 2230 2130 0.797 0.805
5000 165.4 2240 2250 0.797 0.805
5280 169.2 2250 2280 0.797 0.805
5640 166.2 2250 2290 0.805 0.805
5960 164.7 2250 2240 0.797 0.805
6240 160.2 2260 2230 0.782 0.805
Group A: '118 Group B: '032
Engine Speed Air Temp In Boost Dut Cyc Actual Boost Idle O2 Adapt Run O2 Adapt
700-6800 RPM <=110 C 0-100% <=1800 mbar -10.1 -10.1
/min °C % mbar % %
2320 33 0 1020 2.3 0
2360 33 100 990 2.3 0
2440 32 100 1130 2.3 0
2600 31 100 1250 2.3 0
2760 30 100 1320 2.3 0
2920 30 100 1380 2.3 0
3080 30 100 1440 2.3 0
3280 30 100 1530 2.3 0
3480 30 100 1640 2.3 0
3720 32 100 1770 2.3 0
3920 33 97.6 1930 2.3 0
4200 34 74.1 2060 2.3 0
4440 36 64.7 2170 2.3 0
4600 38 60 2250 2.3 0
4840 40 59.2 2320 2.3 0
5080 45 52.2 2330 2.3 0
5320 48 45.9 2290 2.3 0
5480 51 43.9 2260 2.3 0
5640 54 44.7 2240 2.3 0
5840 57 46.3 2240 2.3 0
6000 61 47.1 2220 2.3 0
6160 64 49.8 2240 2.3 0
6320 68 52.9 2260 2.3 0
6040 68 0 1720 2.3 0
Nice base figures so far dave, especially on smic. Turbo looks like its hardly trying! 18psi @ 6320 and showing 52.9% WG duty, you gotta be happy with that! Loads of scope for more. :D
UncleFester
17-07-2007, 22:23
So WG duty cycle must be Wastegate? Does that indicate how much % of capacity the turbo is working at?
( complete turbo novice trying to work out what all the figures mean)
Ok how the heck did you work that out - if you could put it in laymans terms it would be appreciated :)
So WG duty cycle must be Wastegate? Does that indicate how much % of capacity the turbo is working at?
..
It's the percentage of the time that the N75 is keeping the wastegate closed.
UncleFester
17-07-2007, 22:36
Thank you - so the longer it is closed the better? I am guessing that wastegate opening is to release excess / unwanted boost?
Just looked at the figures again, skype had done something odd to the formatting on the last set of data - i can at least see where the figures come from now.
Thank you - so the longer it is closed the better? I am guessing that wastegate opening is to release excess / unwanted boost?
Yes, but more to control the boost level. Remember the N75 controls the wastegate actuator by pulsing it open and closed rapidly. If you look at the log above, the wastegate starts off 100% (closed) and as the power rises, it starts to be open more and more of the time. :)
UncleFester
17-07-2007, 22:47
So that's how you measure how much power you're putting out at what rpm / gear ..... what would be an optimum reading for the wastegate and is it better when it's able to be held further open for longer periods of time?
Whats LB9 equal to dave? HB5?
Thats gonna be awesome when your running a decent FMIC.
wild willy
18-07-2007, 00:21
Nice logs Dave :),
Time to up the timing and boost a little me thinks. [B)]
So that's how you measure how much power you're putting out at what rpm / gear ..... what would be an optimum reading for the wastegate and is it better when it's able to be held further open for longer periods of time?
Big question Fes! There's better people than me to answer the question and it would be worthwhile posing it elsewhere. I think it's a combination of boost / fueling & wastegate efficiency (etc)
Whats LB9 equal to dave? HB5?
Thats gonna be awesome when your running a decent FMIC.
B6 on a newer SPS3 I think Phil - but whether that's so applicable with Revo Stage 3 - :shrug:
Nice logs Dave :),
Time to up the timing and boost a little me thinks. [B)]
Cheers Carl! It's a bit of a leap into the unknown so I was a tad nervous. I cut at just over 6k, but it would have kept going.... I should leave it until the FMIC is fitted now, shouldn't I....
I'm a tad concerned at what's going on sub 4k (ie not a lot)
Deffo leave the timing until the FMIC etc is fitted. You might well find the sub 4k performance improves once you've sorted the breathing out.
Deffo leave the timing until the FMIC etc is fitted. You might well find the sub 4k performance improves once you've sorted the breathing out.
Thanks Martyn! Good to have your input. :yes:
:)
Are you going to keep the N75 Dave or will be be running an EBC like the Apexi?
:)
Are you going to keep the N75 Dave or will be be running an EBC like the Apexi?
I intend to stick with the N75, Martyn - I'm not (at this stage) intending to take it to the limit.
Fair one bud, look forward to more updates :)
It's a bit of a laggy mofo dave. Similar to other eliminator logs I've seen.
I'm getting 1 bar boost by 32-3300 and 1.5 bar by 3700 a,d 1.8 bar by 3900. Similar spool when I was on a vf34. N75 work fine on mine at 2 bar boost.
Waste gate duty is very un linear. unplug your n75 and you'll make 1 bar boost at the top end (so at 0 duty)
Plug it in and you make 1.25 at 50% duty. Wind it up and you'll be 100% duty cycle making 1.5 bar boost at the top end.
Waste gate is a 20-30mm hole, so open or shut you'll only effect flow through the turbine by 25% or so.
Ruddmeister
18-07-2007, 11:18
I intend to stick with the N75, Martyn - I'm not (at this stage) intending to take it to the limit.
Logs look good as far as my limited knowledge can tell (CF's as expected at this low stage of tune are minimal etc) and I suppose one plus of this awfull weather is nice low temps for induction.
The question I want to ask though is how does the car drive on the road, performance compared to your old maxed out KO3s
Logs look good as far as my limited knowledge can tell (CF's as expected at this low stage of tune are minimal etc) and I suppose one plus of this awfull weather is nice low temps for induction.
The question I want to ask though is how does the car drive on the road, performance compared to your old maxed out KO3s
The honest answer to that, Steve, is I don't know yet. Apart from a couple of squirts, the only time I've done WOT to the line is those power runs. I've only done about 75 miles since I got it back on the road and I've been running looking for probs/leaks etc. I'm letting Mrs DPJ use it for her 1 mile to work and I'm having doorhandle scraping fun in her car.(what grip? - one 'controlled' slide) Driving normally, it seems as flexible as before. It does seem to bog down at under 4k when it's floored.
I still think that some of the 'lag' will be caused by the downpipe and stock IC piping. The rest of lag is / will be a 'feature' of the turbo. IMO of course.
When I popped into JKM the other day we chatted about turbos and they mentioned that they tend to favour other turbos over the ATP ones due to the lag they appear to have.
I still think that some of the 'lag' will be caused by the downpipe and stock IC piping. The rest of lag is / will be a 'feature' of the turbo. IMO of course.
That's what I'm hoping, Marts.
Wooohooo! The Pro Alloy metal pipework for my Forge LCR intercooler install just turned up at work.
Where are the pics then? ;)
Where are the pics then? ;)
:lol:
Bonjour (just back from a long weekend).
Logs look a good starting point, rather laggy though like everyone else's said - but you've got stuff to try. N75 made me laugh, actually (100, 100, 100, 100, 100, 40, 40, 40, 40 :D ). A/F looks alright (I think). I'm with Marts, I think the dp will sort it (at least improve it).
You've just mentioned LCR pipework, but you've let your RHS Inlet manifold go :confused:
Bonjour (just back from a long weekend).
Logs look a good starting point, rather laggy though like everyone else's said - but you've got stuff to try. N75 made me laugh, actually (100, 100, 100, 100, 100, 40, 40, 40, 40 :D ). A/F looks alright (I think). I'm with Marts, I think the dp will sort it (at least improve it).
You've just mentioned LCR pipework, but you've let your RHS Inlet manifold go :confused:
ça va, Monsieur Feel?
Yes A/F's not bad at all.
Sorting the DP means making superbracket for the shifter cables. (another job).
The LCR FMIC will run right to left, not just left to right ;)
ça va bien, merci. Mickey & Pluto say "Bonjour" by the way.
Ibiza style charge pipe then?
ça va bien, merci. Mickey & Pluto say "Bonjour" by the way.
Ibiza style charge pipe then?
How did you know I said "Oh no, pluto!" in a high pitched Mickey voice at least three times a day?
Yep Ibiza style, but not across the top of coil pack 4.
Ah, but try saying it in French, mon ami? That did my head in that did...
Wise to avoid the coil pack(s)
2.5" cat'd downpipe and SMIC vs. 3" cat-less downpipe and decent FMIC is gonna make those logs look a whole lot different.
Dont touch the settings dave, i wanna see what the difference the extra hardware makes on the logs. :D
2.5" cat'd downpipe and SMIC vs. 3" cat-less downpipe and decent FMIC is gonna make those logs look a whole lot different.
Dont touch the settings dave, i wanna see what the difference the extra hardware makes on the logs. :D
I promise I'll keep it scientific, Phil.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/DPJ/GT28RS%20Install/P1010104.jpg
MAP Sensor boss?
(and while you're there, aquamist boss(es) ;) )
Map sensor boss is on the central pipe above.
Aquamist - give me a chance, next thing you'll be telling me that the drum brakes on the back aren't up to the job! :D There'll be room for a short alloy pipe just before the TB (at a later date) if it fits together the way I think it will.
wild willy
18-07-2007, 23:40
I just noticed your inlet temperature of 68 degrees, ouch thats hot. FMIC should keep em below 40.