View Full Version : Boring out to 2.1Litre for 2.0 8v
Tony2Quick4u
30-01-2003, 08:58
Hi all,
just wondering what would be the end results if i had the engine bored out to a 2.1 litre with head and cams etc? also i know the cost would be around£800 for the cams/head work but how much would it be for getting the head bored out?
:cheers:
tsr do the full package for 4k tony,they also recomend a gearbox rebuild and clutch change to take the extra torque,5 thousand pounds.
get a 1.820vt for 3.5k fitted and piss all over an 8v;)
Tony2Quick4u
30-01-2003, 09:02
thanks for that jase, right i guess that has cleared that stupid question up and killed this thread. Thanks for the info mate.
:D :cheers:
Originally posted by jason
tsr do the full package for 4k tony,they also recomend a gearbox rebuild and clutch change to take the extra torque,5 thousand pounds.
get a 1.820vt for 3.5k fitted and piss all over an 8v;)
I'm not sure you would - a 2L 8V with a good head and cams / rechip could put out 150bhp and it will weigh not a lot. This would cost perhaps max 2K all in, would be a very very nice engine and leaving you 1.5K for very nice brakes and suspension.
I would bet this may be quicker than a std 1.8 20VT. Kev has a std 8V and ran a lot of the 20VT's very close last year.
Ave it
Dave
indeed
TSR aren't quite the cheapest place.
Mark
Tony2Quick4u
30-01-2003, 10:59
that would be 150BHP if the ibiza was running at a standard 115BHP. Autotechnik near Southampton do head/cams all in for £800, which is very good, so i presume i would be reaching over the 150BHP mark as mine is running at 132BHP at the moment, and would i be giving the standard 20VT a good run for their money if i did have this done, cos at Alconbury last year i was getting cained from my mate Damo in his standard 20VT, down the long straight i could only reach about 100mph as he was reaching 120mph easily!!
:cheers:
Originally posted by Tony2Quick4u
that would be 150BHP if the ibiza was running at a standard 115BHP. Autotechnik near Southampton do head/cams all in for £800, which is very good, so i presume i would be reaching over the 150BHP mark as mine is running at 132BHP at the moment, and would i be giving the standard 20VT a good run for their money if i did have this done, cos at Alconbury last year i was getting cained from my mate Damo in his standard 20VT, down the long straight i could only reach about 100mph as he was reaching 120mph easily!!
:cheers:
There are very many different specs of cams and heads and some are much better than others - a slick-50 spec head for eg. from TSR is over £1K itself - TSR have many race wins with this head and as it was designed for a full race 1.8L, it should perform very well with a road 2L. Full race slick-50 8V's with mad cams are around the 170bhp mark - I would be very suprised if you got more than 150 on a road car even if you have 132 at present - I also doubt this is a standard engine and suspect a chip or cam job. If you were getting 'caned' by a 150bhp car then you are either a crap driver or you dont have 132bhp.
Ave it
Rob
Tony2Quick4u
30-01-2003, 12:57
well Rob if i have my pedal to the floor and so did Damo in his standard 20VT, and he is flying past me, not much skill really is there in driving in a straight line, so its not crap driving, i would of thought u might have known its a little something called more torque and BHP!!!!
:devil:
Originally posted by Tony2Quick4u
well Rob if i have my pedal to the floor and so did Damo in his standard 20VT, and he is flying past me, not much skill really is there in driving in a straight line, so its not crap driving, i would of thought u might have known its a little something called more torque and BHP!!!!
:devil:
Your car will be lighter than his. According to your BHP figure (132), he only has 18bhp more than you. When you factor in the weight difference, you should not have been 'caned'.
What's your explaination for the apparent massive performance difference (based on your own description) ?
Ave it
Rob
Tony2Quick4u
30-01-2003, 13:49
Dont know Rob, you pasty boys seem to think you are the experts........you work it out
The main thing i know is that he went past me and its as simple as that!!
although there is only 18BHP difference, mine is only an 8v and loses alot of pull going towards the 100mph range, most of my power is most likely built in between 0-80mph, so i would probaly think his is geared differently, and oh there is that minor detail called a turbo, meaning he has plenty of power in most gears and at most speeds as i dont!!!!
:devil:
Turbo doesn't make any difference at mph speed, but does at engine speed. You don't get more power at given speeds cos of the turbo. Your torque and power curves won't differ much in different gears. May get slightly more at higher speeds if you have more air being forced in?
Don't know what the layout was but maybe as Damo entered the straight he was at peak torque rpm, and you weren't, giving him a better run up the straight? Maybe his exit speed at the corner leading to straight was simply much faster?
He might have had better tyres, or different pressures, or maybe the cold weather helped him more?
20+ mph diff from 18bhp seems a lot. Maybe your car wasn't well on the day?
Go back and test I say
:car:
Tony2Quick4u
30-01-2003, 14:00
well whatever then, i really could not give a flying **** afer this week and today, maybe i should pull out of all the track days and save myself the embarrassment............whatever!!!!!!!!!!!
:devil:
No chance mate! In a straight line you're always going to lose out to other Ibizas with more power. With the new suspension you should make up much of this; quicker corner entry, quicker speed through corners, quicker exist out of corners, better braking, maybe better off-the-line traction. A couple of tweaks to the engine like you plan will see you beat 1.8Ts. In a straight line my 16v is pretty much just as quick as a 1.8T Ibiza, handles a tad better too. When the suspension's on, and the engine fettled, it should be quicker than those 1.8Ts which have only had a chip-tune.
Originally posted by Tony2Quick4u
Dont know Rob, you pasty boys seem to think you are the experts........you work it out
The main thing i know is that he went past me and its as simple as that!!
although there is only 18BHP difference, mine is only an 8v and loses alot of pull going towards the 100mph range, most of my power is most likely built in between 0-80mph, so i would probaly think his is geared differently, and oh there is that minor detail called a turbo, meaning he has plenty of power in most gears and at most speeds as i dont!!!!
:devil:
I suspect we will find out the answer this year when we compare times of similar cars at our trackdays.
Ave it
Rob
Originally posted by edc
Turbo doesn't make any difference at mph speed, but does at engine speed. You don't get more power at given speeds cos of the turbo. Your torque and power curves won't differ much in different gears. May get slightly more at higher speeds if you have more air being forced in?
Don't know what the layout was but maybe as Damo entered the straight he was at peak torque rpm, and you weren't, giving him a better run up the straight? Maybe his exit speed at the corner leading to straight was simply much faster?
He might have had better tyres, or different pressures, or maybe the cold weather helped him more?
20+ mph diff from 18bhp seems a lot. Maybe your car wasn't well on the day?
Go back and test I say
:car:
I'll second that.
Rob
Originally posted by Tony2Quick4u
well whatever then, i really could not give a flying **** afer this week and today, maybe i should pull out of all the track days and save myself the embarrassment............whatever!!!!!!!!!!!
:devil:
Temper temper.:D
Ave it
Rob
Tony2Quick4u
30-01-2003, 14:14
err how about the fact that my car was not slow, its just crap...:mad:
we will see how the track days go, but i will most likely only have a few blats but save myself the embarrassment and just spectate!
Take out any spare weight; spare wheel, toolkit, rear bench, CDs HU, sub, passenger, have ash*t b4 you go out, run a light tank of 98RON fuel, play with you tyre pressures and get them right. Remember your tyres will read higher after a couple of laps so get adjust accordingly.
Tony2Quick4u
30-01-2003, 14:24
i think to buy a better and faster car would be a good option/idea!
Nah! Straight-line speed's not everything mate. Get it good in the corners and the guy in front will sh*t himself when he sees you coming and make a mistake - easy meat, use full beams for some extra glare ;)
My mate had a Hillman Imp which I took round for a few laps. Wicked fun car, only had 800-something cc, steering wheel as a big as a boat's, brakes which my old BMX could beat, and sidewalls as high as a tractor's, but was still excellent fun to drive :D They also had a 600bhp 300ZX on the drive but for safe on the limit fun the Imp was the best drive.
Tony2Quick4u
30-01-2003, 14:40
Temper temper.
well its alright for you Rob, you have a nice 20VT and a very modified 16v Ibiza!
as i dont, i have an old slow 8v....
Yeah, but he's old with a mortgage, kids, imprisoned with wife and a pension ;)
Tony2Quick4u
30-01-2003, 14:44
:rotfl: :bounce: :D
not all roads are straight Tony, you asked me the other day the difference between my 8v and my 20vt.
My 20vt goes likes stink and would skin my old 8v in a straight line, but the mk2 is such a better handler than the mk3, i only had eibach springs on the 8v but it was very neutral in balance and gave me a lot more confidence to take corners faster and with more control.
The mk3 Ibiza is a lot more tetchy on the limit.
If you want balls out speed in a straight line, then yes you need to really change your car or spend £2K-£3k making it balls out fast.
BUT as a combination of road and track fun car the 8v is hard to beat for the value.
:cheers:
Originally posted by edc
Yeah, but he's old with a mortgage, kids, imprisoned with wife and a pension ;)
ooof :p , wait for the recoil of the Dr :D
Just trying to show Tony some perspective :) Beat me up if you want but are my facts that wrong? ;)
Tony2Quick4u
30-01-2003, 14:53
true my car may be slower, but then at least i am younger and better looking!!
I'd argue that not basing your self-esteem on whether or not you're faster than other people might be a better place to start.
There'll always be someone quicker, no matter how fast your car is. The only embarrassment to be had by being the slowest at a track day is by throwing tantrums and failing to learn from more experienced campaigners.
Tony what was your bhp @ wheels when you had the 132bhp reading taken?
Tony2Quick4u
30-01-2003, 15:08
im afraid i dont know what is was at the wheels, something like 112BHP, thats a bit of a guess though. Its been rolling roaded next weekend so we shall c.
at the end of the day i could be the better driver but with a track like Alconbury it is sheer power that wins out down the long straights unlike Curborough.
Originally posted by edc
Yeah, but he's old with a mortgage, kids, imprisoned with wife and a pension ;)
This is exactly the type of response I have come to expect from the 'S-massive'.
Ave it
Rob
Tony2Quick4u
30-01-2003, 16:48
well we are just merely speaking the truth are we not!!! Grandad.....
If i could just add, a Track Day is not a race, its to experience using your car on the limit, or near to its limits, in a safer environment, amongst friends.
This isn't about having the fastest, best handling car, you'll always have the people who like a competitive edge, and thats fine.
But don't feel you have to compete with people just cause your at a Track Day, you take it at your own pace, as safely as you feel, and within the limits of your car.
If your slower, who cares, you still enjoyed it didn't you?
I've got a powerful car, and yes i can get up to some fair old speeds at Alconbury, but i actually prefer giving it pasty through the twisties, and not really fussed about breakneck speeds.
My car is easily capable at Alconbury of hitting 120-130 plus on the straight, but i dont.
Bottom line is, these Track Days are what you make of them, don't feel its competition, because it strictly isn't, if you race then you'd be kicked off anyway.
Friendly competition is cool though, and not to be taken too seriously.
To be honest if i had a 1.4 or my 20VT id still do Track Days, they are fun and a good experience whatever you drive.
Kev Hall
30-01-2003, 17:55
Is it not about having fun out there?
The 8v will get 'caned' in a straight line by the majority of rep mobiles, but traffic light grand prix's are for ******s anyway, get them on the twisties where you have to actually drive and you'll be saying goodbye to them.
If you want a 20vt then get a 20vt, don't **** about sticking a 20vt in your's though Seat have already done that!
At the likes of Alconbury a chipped 20vt will pretty much kill you, but that's a very open/straight circuit and not exactly challenging. You can have a lot of fun there though. Take the 8v to somewhere you have to use your driving skills and see if you enjoy it, remember the higher the corner speed the faster you'll get down the straight. Beat them in the corners!
ibizacupra
30-01-2003, 22:33
I have enjoyed many many many track days/sprints over the years in my old Jetta. It has never been the most powerful car on track, and down the straights I have usually at best only kept up with them, and usually lost out to them. Come the brakes and corners though and its bye bye. They are destroyed. Lap times are way faster for the better handling, better braking car.
Plenty an RS Cossy something or Scooby WR something, or EVO this and that, has been very embaressed on track by a mere 200bhp Jetta.
the point of this ramble is don't focus on the power, focus on the handling, braking and ability to find and drive at the safe limit of your car. Power is great for straight lines, but not too many tracks have straights long enough to make up for the important braking and cornering areas.
Enjoy your motor.
Its just for fun.
:D
Bill
Tony2Quick4u
31-01-2003, 08:44
to be honest i think we/I have lost site of what track days are for, for pure fun and to enjoy the car, i think that is the way i would like to keep it, none of this i am going to beat you nonsense, sure its good to add a bit more of a competetive edge, but as long as I/we have fun thats all that matters.
:D :cheers:
Originally posted by Tony2Quick4u
well we are just merely speaking the truth are we not!!! Grandad.....
hahahahahaha - yet more intelligent, witty and informative comment from the 'S-massive'.
And as usual, you are wrong.
Ave it
Rob
Tony2Quick4u
31-01-2003, 08:54
Ok sorry GRANDAD
Tony2Quick4u
31-01-2003, 08:57
:rotfl: :bounce: :laff: :yes: :lol2:
Sorry Rob, just cant help myself, if i come to the next track day with my flat cap and slippers, will my car be as fast as yours....LOL (jk)
New book just been released:
How to make friends and influence people by S Massive.
Available now from all good book stores.
Tony2Quick4u
31-01-2003, 09:27
well you know i am only jesting and its always good fun to have a bit of rivalry on the track!
:cheers: