View Full Version : New Air filter Which one??
Got 37k on the clock looking at changing air filter for a better more efficient one than the standard Seat one... @ the 40k service. Any recomendations, do they come complete with an induction kit??
Rage & I are waiting for Green filter elements from Badger 5 (ibizacupra) for out TDi Sport Ibizas - don't know what they're like since we've only just ordered them...
Originally posted by Stu B
Got 37k on the clock looking at changing air filter for a better more efficient one than the standard Seat one... @ the 40k service. Any recomendations, do they come complete with an induction kit??
An 'induction kit' typically removes your entire factory airbox and replaces it with a cone filter with assortments. A replacement filter, which is what you allude to, is just that and will mean you have to unhinge your airbox and replace.
I will probably go with a Green as Rage & RB5 have done since it seems to be the most MAF freindly of the cotton type filters.
Stay away from the sponge type ones like ramair, as they use alot of oil, which means it's more likely you'll have MAF problems latter on.
ITG's were thought to be best for Scoobies despite them being (very) oiled foam filters and Subaru MAF's being very fragile. Bizzarre.:confused:
Originally posted by RB5
....Subaru MAF's being very fragile. Bizzarre.:confused:
Aren't they all?
Well my story in the '98 ibiza TDI was that I ran a K&N from new up to 227000km, with MAF problems for the last 2000 or 3000km only. But I know that they usually cause problems.
Green ???? - what brand ?? & whats MAF mean - Sorry silly probably././
MAF... Mass Air Flow sensor.
I never had a MAF issues on my Scooby, but then I only ran a none OE spec UniFilter for a few hundred miles before I sold it.
My mate Ian has run a K&N induction kit on his MY99 Scooby without hassle for a few thousand. One thought is poor fitting and hence vibration kills some MAFs.
AH MAF - Mass air flow - Yeah already had a new one of those - did notice the car topped out out 125 instead of 115!! MPH - Yeah cool - but it got changed now tops out at 120mph ish! German Roads of course!
Originally posted by Stu B
Green ???? - what brand ?? & whats MAF mean - Sorry silly probably././
Green is the brand name.
So what does the Green do that a K & N doesnt or are they much the same ??? Whats the cost anyone got the price for a Leon TDi??
They perform the same function and i think both are made from cotton and not foam like Pipercross, ITG etc etc.
I can't say whether one 'out-flows' the other cos you'd need a lab for that, but asides from colour they should look the same since they have to fit the same 'hole'.
For prices see a DT catalogue or they may be online @ Need For Speed.
Originally posted by edc
They perform the same function and i think both are made from cotton and not foam like Pipercross, ITG etc etc.
I can't say whether one 'out-flows' the other cos you'd need a lab for that, but asides from colour they should look the same since they have to fit the same 'hole'.
For prices see a DT catalogue or they may be online @ Need For Speed.
...or contact Bill (ibizacupra on here) who should do a small disount for forum members (Greens only).
Originally posted by Chri5B
MAF... Mass Air Flow sensor.
I never had a MAF issues on my Scooby, but then I only ran a none OE spec UniFilter for a few hundred miles before I sold it.
My mate Ian has run a K&N induction kit on his MY99 Scooby without hassle for a few thousand. One thought is poor fitting and hence vibration kills some MAFs.
Neither did I with 17k on an ITG, but then others have problems with standard filters. I was never convinced by the filter argument, but I had a warranty and a paper filter in a box in case the MAF failed...
muddyboots
19-02-2003, 12:07
What exactly causes MAF sensors to fail - and why are they more likely to with different filters ? Do they let more dirt through or something ?
Originally posted by muddyboots
What exactly causes MAF sensors to fail - and why are they more likely to with different filters ? Do they let more dirt through or something ?
Often fails due to oil contamination from the filters. This can be due to overzealous oiling by owners or filters which simply require too much oil in the first instance.
muddyboots
19-02-2003, 12:19
Hadn't thought of that.
Do they die completely, or can you clean them ?
What are the symptoms of an oily MAF ? (sniggers)
I've had a K&N element in my Rover for quite a while, I wonder if it might be having an effect on mine.
I must admit I did get a bit carried away with the oiling, thinking that if I didn't put enough in, it would start letting dirt through. Didn't realise oil would cause problems too !
mb
ibizacupra
19-02-2003, 12:26
Erratic idling and erratic airflow measured by the MAF during steady state rpm is typical.
MAF's are dropping like flies on older diesels so Autotechnik tell me. They see several per week all with dead ones.
I am beginning to think Induction kits have bene getting the blame for deficiencies within Bosche's design.
They are Fragile and do not like shocks. That much I do know. They will break and give no sensor signal or too low sensor signal and a check engine light will illuminate.
Green filter prices appicable to this forum are posted here for info: http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?threadid=11731
regards
Bill
Originally posted by muddyboots
Hadn't thought of that.
Do they die completely, or can you clean them ?
What are the symptoms of an oily MAF ? (sniggers)
I've had a K&N element in my Rover for quite a while, I wonder if it might be having an effect on mine.
I must admit I did get a bit carried away with the oiling, thinking that if I didn't put enough in, it would start letting dirt through. Didn't realise oil would cause problems too !
mb
If your MAF is buggered then your engine will be very unhappy. The oil will only cause problems if the oil reaches the MAF - which can depend on the design of your airbox/aftermarket induction kit and location of MAF.
In my Ibiza I had to clean the inside of the airbox cos the bottom part was caked in oily residue. I could be wrong but I can't see how this would affect my MAF cos it wouldn't be able to reach it.
I believe you can clean the MAF but they are so delicate it will already be broken by the time you realise there's a problem.
muddyboots
19-02-2003, 12:38
Erratic idling and erratic airflow measured by the MAF during steady state rpm is typical.
Hmmm. Some days the Rover idles really smooth, other days it's up and down a bit. Most noticeable problem is during steady cruising on a very light throttle, say at 40mph - when it feels like it's "misfiring" a bit. Wonder if it's my MAF then ? It's done 93k miles, about 50k of which with the K&N.
But my Ibiza should arrive within the next couple of months so I'm in the "minimum spend" phase now, and don't intend to fix anything unless it's really desparate....
Might be another order on it's way to Bill when I get the Ibiza !
mb
Originally posted by RB5
Neither did I with 17k on an ITG, but then others have problems with standard filters. I was never convinced by the filter argument, but I had a warranty and a paper filter in a box in case the MAF failed...
I noticed the same thing hear. It might also depend on manufacturer since 2 of my audi driving friends have MAF failure at 60000km intervals.
Originally posted by muddyboots
about 50k of which with the K&N.
mb
Maybe you just need to clean it and remove any leaves/acorns/twigs/stones/etc from your airbox??
Originally posted by ibizacupra
I am beginning to think Induction kits have bene getting the blame for deficiencies within Bosche's design.
Green filter prices appicable to this forum are posted here for info: http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?threadid=11731
regards
Bill
I agree with you Bill. My local dealer told me that the bosch unit is the weakest of them (which I guess means there are other manufacturers).
Green filter prices:eek: Looks like I'll be getting my credit card out pretty soon;)
Got a great deal on a K&N New filter - WHAT A DIFFERENCE its Made !!!!! Now what next to do./. Lose my licence perhaps!!!
muddyboots
27-02-2003, 12:22
Which car do you drive, and how much did your filter cost then Stu ?
Mb-
You could also ask Bill (ibizacupra) to get you a Green filter. Basically the same but with a bit less oil. He's got a link up somewhere with the price (I think it's something like £40)
Leon TDI 90 Bhp... Now unless I get it on a rolling road I gotta be nearer 100BHP..... Well the rev counter is 2-300 (in mid range) lower / pick up from tick over Wooooooooooooooooooooh..... Cost £53 coillected from a supplier in Reading... would have cost £60 otherwise... Basically the same as a Green filter on cost but I was able to collect at shortish notice........
Originally posted by Stu B
Leon TDI 90 Bhp... Now unless I get it on a rolling road I gotta be nearer 100BHP..... Well the rev counter is 2-300 (in mid range) lower / pick up from tick over Wooooooooooooooooooooh..... Cost £53 coillected from a supplier in Reading... would have cost £60 otherwise... Basically the same as a Green filter on cost but I was able to collect at shortish notice........
You should have more than 100hp stock! My mk3 golf (90hp tdi) put out 106hp completely stock. I never got it tested after installing the filter but I dought you'll get any more hp. What you do get is quicker spooling on the turbo. This means boost quicker.
Well All I know is that its quicker than it was....:devil:
so, generally do MAF sensors go if you've fitted an aftermarket air filter, or do they go on any, and the oil issue is just another cause?
Mine's coming upto about 36k so, like Stu, thinking of different options
andy
Originally posted by andyb
so, generally do MAF sensors go if you've fitted an aftermarket air filter, or do they go on any, and the oil issue is just another cause?
Mine's coming upto about 36k so, like Stu, thinking of different options andy
I think it's pretty much BS. The only time my MAF began failing on me was a month or so before my trade in; the ibiza had around 227000km on it (panel filter was installed with <10000km).
Friends of mine with stock filters (especially the A4 guys) had MAF replacements every 60000km or there abouts. The diference being the MAF manufacturer. The bosch units (A4's had them) where/are extremely fragile. The unit in the ibiza 110 was a Valeo unit (??? definitely not bosch).
The toledo unit is a bosch and it's got 101000+km on it.
If your careful to clean and reoil the filter (but not over do the oiling) I really don't think you'll have a problem. I haven't changed yet, but will probably do so.
Andy Do it - You will notice the difference....... I promise!!!!!! No what else can I do with my Leon Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm ;)
We should meet up soon eh
well my leg is beginning to work now (broke some bones, did some tendons etc) so yes, that would be a good idea. Maybe in a few weeks once I'm fully mended
Stu,
I not saying that you won't notice the difference.:) I think it's the seat of your pants difference. IMO the turbo enters into full boost quicker.
Next!!!!
You could chip it (most bang for the buck)
you can de-cat it (same effect as the filter).
Now de-cat it Mmmmmmm explain - putting the Cupra (older version) back box on would this make a simiular diffence....
Andy - yeah sounds good..... Drop me an email....
Originally posted by prc
Stu,
You could chip it (most bang for the buck)
hopefully, not literally
Originally posted by andyb
hopefully, not literally
LOL:D
I really think the bang (literally) depends on your right foot.
A true story:
Me a friend both bought ibiza 110tdi. His was always faster than mine (about 1/2 car length @ 500m). He chipped his, I didn't.
3yrs latter we both sold our cars. After removing the chip from his car we retested and found my car to be a cars length faster @ 500m.
(I'd also mention my car had 60000km more than his).
It does tell you something about the extra wear a chip put on the engine.
Personally, I'm joining the chipped side:D
BeezerDiesel
27-02-2003, 16:40
Stu Bnext step should be a chip or tuning box as these will make far more of a difference to your engine than any other single addition for power output/response and should be benefitted by your extra airflow from the filter as they will increase fuelling under load - could be looking at 120bhp if you're lucky.
Originally posted by Stu B
Now de-cat it Mmmmmmm explain - putting the Cupra (older version) back box on would this make a simiular diffence....
Andy - yeah sounds good..... Drop me an email....
There's been a bit of debate over this. I personally think the cat is the most restrictive part of the entire exhaust, and therefore do more for you removed than replacing the back box. I really dunno?
ibizacupra
27-02-2003, 18:20
For the guys who ordered their 2002 MY 130PD Green Panel Filters off me... I thought they had arrived today...
Opened the large box to find they had'nt shipped them in this consignment...:devil:
DOH!
They look like thye have droppedinto the next France order for no good reason. Sorry chaps but this delays your orders. :(
Bill
(Not amused)
Thanks for the update bill. I was going to give you a ring or speak to you in IRC to find out when they were due.
I'm not in any hurry as long as its in by march 9th.
Originally posted by prc
There's been a bit of debate over this. I personally think the cat is the most restrictive part of the entire exhaust, and therefore do more for you removed than replacing the back box. I really dunno?
I tend to agree. I'm sure my car is far more responsive since having the decat fitted on Saturday although it may not actually be faster (actually I think it revs a bt more freely near the top end, but there isn't a lot of point in that with the TDi).
Before anyone asks, no I don't want to refit the cat and see how much difference it makes (unless it forms part of a pair of back-to-back RR sessions at Stealth...)
BTW, Cheers for the filter update, Bill.
Looked through the Greenfilter site today. Found it strange that the for the tdi130,tdi150, and 1.8T the filter size is the same. I thought that the box for the 150 was different from that of the 130?? Or does the filter size being the same have nothing to do with the air box size?
I must be looking at a different page cos
mk3 beezer
1.8T is listed as length/height 374 width 135
and
mk4 beezer
1.9 TDi 130 is length/height 210/232 width 217/235
Sorry, I forgot to mention I was looking under the Leon:redface:
ahhh that'll explain it then
ibizacupra
28-02-2003, 08:16
Originally posted by prc
Looked through the Greenfilter site today. Found it strange that the for the tdi130,tdi150, and 1.8T the filter size is the same. I thought that the box for the 150 was different from that of the 130?? Or does the filter size being the same have nothing to do with the air box size?
I have Leon 20VT, Leon-R, Golf IV Green Panel Filters in stock.
Ibiza 20VT one is also listed as TDi Ibiza one (MY2001)
Ibiza Panel is long and thinner.
Golf/Leon one is wider and squarer (larger than Ibiza)
regards
Bill