View Full Version : Revo Dynoplots
Sorry if this has been discussed before but has their been any dyno results posted so far? I would be very interested to see what happens after 5000 rpm since the main shortcoming with my APR chip atm is that there is drastic power drop with recommended gear change at about 5,500 rpm. was wondering if this has been addressed or whether it is a limitation of the K03 as suggested. noticed on the 0-60 times post someone recommended gear change at 6,500 so that should mean more power at the high end for Revo?
cheers
ANDY BLUNT
10-03-2003, 22:41
I think you will find all the plots you want in the "Other"section of meetings.A few of us revo'd at Steath Racing rolling road day,all plots are in this thread.And yes revo does make a huge diffence to midrange and top end.Cheers Andy.:D
dear andy, thanks for the info
the link is http://www.seatcupra.net/~mark/rr/rr.htm
it is quite an interesting read.
i can see you are also having big dive after 5k , similar to what i had, but max torque is quite more at 332 Nm
my results where 206 normalised Cv at 4948
298,6 Nm at 4557 on an AQX MY2000
I've read somewhere that the plots are imminent;)
LEO LION R
11-03-2003, 08:39
I've read somewhere that the plots are imminent
Well at least you can spell it ;)
Yeah, anytime now they will let us see the result of spending all that money, sometime soon :redface:
(surely it must have moved up their priority list by now, and not some poxy graphics one, we want a real RR graph for bhp & lb/ft before and afters)
If 'Poopachips' can do it I'm sure REVO can
LEO LION R
11-03-2003, 10:49
Maybe they have stealthy graphs as well as stealthy software ;)
LEO LION R
12-03-2003, 14:42
YEAHHHHHH !:D
Here they come......
.
.
.
.
oh oh, just a false alarm :(
Come on Revo guys, it must be easy compared with actually tuning them in the first place, never mind the code cracking.
:cheers:
i have had a look in all of the dyno results of the RR day and the general conclusion is that ibizas regardles of ecu program, have a big dive in power after 5K while the leons do not. anyone care to explain why?
i think the primary shortcoming of all ecu tuning on the ibiza is this. yes, you are excited in the beggining due to the power increase but later you get accustomed to the power and you feel the car is running out of steam after 5k, the feeling is just not there as for the 3 to 5 k range.
it had been suggested that the reason was the K03 however i think leon has exactly same turbo .... mmmmm
??
:confused:
ibizacupra
12-03-2003, 15:38
Leon has higher spec turbo... also VVT on some later models.
(K03 sport spec)
You can definately know this just fromt driving std ones... Leons make a much louder noise and spool up sound compared to ickle ibizas.
VVT and Sport turbo will give higher top end and higher bhp from sustained higher torque at these higher rpms.
Bill
mmm thought that 2001ish beezers also equipped with VVT. no?
ibizacupra
12-03-2003, 20:11
Originally posted by beez
mmm thought that 2001ish beezers also equipped with VVT. no?
No... not AYP or previous AQX
Leons... but not early ones.
Bill
The 180Hp engines have larger injectors compared to the 156/150 Hp engines. Maybe that's why they don't dive after 5K.
i believe this is not correct. difference between 150 and 180 bhp is just boost pressure, i.e. ecu mapping while all the others remaining the same. i think the different injectors come into play if you have 4x4 version.
if indeed your injectors have higher capacity, any idea about rate/min?
Shock_Xe
14-03-2003, 13:31
i think the leon does have bigger injectors as the beeza ones max out about 228bhp/230bhp, some leons are chipped to that and have more to play with
my info is based on skodas:)
http://www.briskoda.net/FAQ+index-myfaq-yes-id_cat-2-categories-Skoda+Technical-parent_id-0.html#23
but maybe the same does not hold for seat. would be got to have some injector specs for arguments sake
Beez
I noticed on the trial that just after 5500rpm there is a drop in power.
Found myself changing gear at around 5500rpm. There is no getting away from the fact that between 2500-5500 their is shed loads more power though!
Now that the trial has finished I am back to changing gear around the redline.
It is now back to having power all the way to the redline:D
Hallo guys.I red all your notes.Leon has more power because it has KO4/KO3 turbine.I am also from Greece and I have the same problem with the big dive after 5000Rpm.I have only the REVO software and I am wondering if we can find a solution about it.(except KO4 turbine). :(
i am just glad me and my friend are not the only ones noticing this.
programming on the beezer should come with a warning, prepare for a lot of power in the mid range but some loss on the high end which is noticeable.
darren, your leon cupra R i Suspect comes with same engine as S3 so power drop after 5000 should be nothing like the beezer. i would believe you could easily shift 6000 rpm without any probs, I dont think we are talking about the same problem. you already have modified K04, forged pistons, bigger air intake tract and AFM, bigger injectors etc... good for you :cheers: heeheh power delivery should be much smotther.
xcupra, i dont think there is much you can do except from combination of new turbo and some serious intercooler rather than the "sample" we have in our car.
ibizacupra
15-03-2003, 19:22
Originally posted by Darren
Beez
I noticed on the trial that just after 5500rpm there is a drop in power.
Found myself changing gear at around 5500rpm. There is no getting away from the fact that between 2500-5500 their is shed loads more power though!
Now that the trial has finished I am back to changing gear around the redline.
It is now back to having power all the way to the redline:D
You will have more power everywhere with the REVO, its just that it feels lesser at the top end relative to the low to mid range...
The little K03 is'nt designed for high boost @high rpms.. It is'nt a software thing its a mechanical limitation..
If it feel like it wants to spin to the red line better on stock, it is placebo effect I think.
Stick a stopwatch on yourself and you will notice the real gains.
The 20VT Ibiza is'nt a revvy animal with the small turbo.
It can be :D but you need different hardware.
Bill
nobody is contesting that you will have more power all round, however the power drop is just there and very noticable.
so on to the hardware issue, assuming you go for modded turbo i.e K04 bolt-on or K04-S3 (more complicated, but have heard not much difference from std K04). Currently aside from superchips I dont know anybody supporting these turbos. I recall APR had a T28 turbokit that was using same 1 bar program as for standard K03, hardly optimised then.
furthermore, intercooler should have an important role to play. does the leon 180 bhp have same intercooler as the beezer? would think not with all this engine space, unless seat was cutting corners.
bill what about the new ic you are expecting, how big is that? mounted on the stock position? any cost estimates?
ibizacupra
15-03-2003, 21:41
Originally posted by beez
nobody is contesting that you will have more power all round, however the power drop is just there and very noticable.
so on to the hardware issue, assuming you go for modded turbo i.e K04 bolt-on or K04-S3 (more complicated, but have heard not much difference from std K04). Currently aside from superchips I dont know anybody supporting these turbos. I recall APR had a T28 turbokit that was using same 1 bar program as for standard K03, hardly optimised then.
furthermore, intercooler should have an important role to play. does the leon 180 bhp have same intercooler as the beezer? would think not with all this engine space, unless seat was cutting corners.
bill what about the new ic you are expecting, how big is that? mounted on the stock position? any cost estimates?
I would guess the power "difference" is noticeable as the transition between more mid range will be higher than from stock, hence "feeling" bad? Does that make sense?
Try and cram in high boost form the K03 at high rpms, and you will generate a lot of induction temperature which will make it even worse power.
Leon is very different and larger IC than Ibiza. Think Golf fitment.
Leon-R is 2 x intercoolers like TT and S3 (one each side)
I am not going to be running an air to air IC, as I am getting a PACE based Chargecooler from Jabbasport soon. I am running the Forge IC at the moment, which allowed me to run a bit more power.... 325 to 337. It is not desigend for this kind of airflow tho, and is a flow restriction.
do you know for fact that the APR ran the K03 program for T28? Makes no sense to me.
Bill
Shock_Xe
15-03-2003, 21:56
I think revo mentioned tehy were going to be doing a K04 upgrade software for those ppl wishing ko3 to k04 but they still starting up so i wouldnt expect anything for a good few months. The bolt on is the k04-01 isnt it?? Whats the ko4-s3?? (Off an S3 Audi?? Not a simple bolt on then!)
Bill Does that mean you will be selling yer forge IC then?? (Very interested :wink2: ;) )
p.s. got hoses and cleaning kit, ok! Thanks!
Revo is expecting to have software at the end of 2003 (so they told me).
S3 k04 has different lub and coolant connections and requires some special piping? that does come quite expensive.
regarding APR, I remember reading that the software for the T28 was the standard 1 bar program as advertised etc.. however this was on the ex-APR Europe page that has now been modified and now has no mention of any ecu tuning, to the point that we can either assume that since stage 1 involves ecu tuning and stage 3 involved bolt on turbo, therefore they use same ecu mapping as Stage 1, or they have just not mentioned that a modified program is used.
in any case i dont see many of us fitting a T28 from APR, especially since they have an uncanny habit of converting prices from USD to GBP on a 1:1 relationship!. (yes costs 3999 USD in US and 3999 GBP in the UK although 1 GBP approx 1.6 USD, and then I go and complain about prices in Greece :) lol)
regarding intercooler, I have posted a proposal for custom made intercooler on:
http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15152
Originally posted by LEO LION R
I've read somewhere that the plots are imminent
Well at least you can spell it ;)
Yeah, anytime now they will let us see the result of spending all that money, sometime soon :redface:
(surely it must have moved up their priority list by now, and not some poxy graphics one, we want a real RR graph for bhp & lb/ft before and afters)
If it's not possible to put the dynoplots on the website, is it possible to e-mail them to the potential buyers on this forum?
Quote following from Vagsport:
http://www.vagsport.com/articles.php?artid=14
An increase in boost does not affect engine life very much at all. What hurts it more is high revolution at a high boost level (extreme heat increase with little time to dissipate heat). This is why all chips tail down boost at higher RPMs. A chip may be rated at 1.0 bar, peaking from 2200rpm to 4500rpm, but tail down to 0.7 bar from 5500rpm to redline. A 100% increase in boost pressure does not equate to a 100% higher peak cylinder pressure. Mean cylinder pressure in the combustion cycle goes up, so overall more power is made, while peak cylinder pressure does not go up by much.
i just wonder,could this be the reason for the power drop, or does the same holds for the Leons?
Any Leon owners have noticed their boost pressures depending on gear after 5500 rpm?
Hallo again Beez.About Leon that you are asking for,it has a pressure drop,but this does not make any problem.It overboosts at 1.1 bar and then drops to 1.0 bar.After 5000rpm drops at 0.9 and thats all.If you see the dynoplot of my family LEON 20VT4 you will think that is a V-tec engine.No drop until 6500rpm.I think that the problem of our car is the KO3.:cheers:
RE. DYNOPLOTS
Hello?:confused:
My beeza pulls to 6500 rpm. See here and look at my Jabbasport plot
http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?threadid=11216
well.. there is always a trade-off.
you get very good power on the high-end however mid-range power not as good.
at 4000 rpm you have 160 while dyno results from e.g. andyblunt he has 180
http://www.seatcupra.net/~mark/Dyno%20Plots/plots/andybluntpower.jpg
It may be due to my personal choice of map, i.e. no boost spike and also the different engine type. I think REVO run a higher max boost, but not certain on that. I know the AQX and AYP engines seem to give slightly different characteristics.
If you look at the other REVO cars they are similar to mine at 4000rpm.
Mine is also running on 95RON fuel all the time, where as most use 98RON.