View Full Version : Ibiza Cupra 20vt P-Torque remap dyno-ed but low BHP
I got my car dyno'ed yesterday but was a bit disappointed with the BHP figure - 190.9BHP. Was expecting at least 200 as it is 180 without the remap :cry:
Does this seem right or is there something wrong with my map/car ?
Heres a graph:
http://www.jkm.org.uk/performance/Misc/Gallery/rollingroaddays/SCN%2001%2003%2008/dyno_no_details/TXJ.gif
Myki da Pyki
02-03-2008, 15:07
Definatly something wrong there if its only a 10bhp increase
maybe it was just the rollers?
a lot of cars seem low there (though since everyone has the most accurate set of rollers that will be disputed)
I know the rollers could be off, but by this much? Others have had better results than me on the same day, such as a Revo'ed FR getting 199.
I'm wondering what people think of the graph too...ie. if there is anything obviously wrong with the torque curve.
that's only 5% difference....
and the turbo is the same.
Myki da Pyki
02-03-2008, 15:15
No way the rollers could be that far out no way. I dont now how diferent the mk4's are compared to the mk3's but if a mk3 can make 201bhp from 156 then yours should be around the 220 mark surely
Doesn't the FR have the Ko3 and Cupra the Ko3s (one day someone will answer this question with a definitive answer ;)). Plus I would expect the Cupra to increase by a similar amount as an FR...this seems to be the case with other people's maps.
ibizacupra
02-03-2008, 15:18
No way the rollers could be that far out no way. I dont now how diferent the mk4's are compared to the mk3's but if a mk3 can make 201bhp from 156 then yours should be around the 220 mark surely
wanna bet :D
"Dyno Lottery"
brace yaself.. lol
Doesn't the FR have the Ko3 and Cupra the Ko3s (one day someone will answer this question with a definitive answer ;)). Plus I would expect the Cupra to increase by a similar amount as an FR...this seems to be the case with other people's maps.
so for sake of arguement an FR gets 210bhp on a map. that's a +60bhp gain.
You can't then think that you will in turn get +60bhp
You'll both end up at the same number, the hardware is near identical (k03s doesn't make that much difference on a stage1 generic map)
traumapat
02-03-2008, 15:30
it looks right graph wise... just on the low side.
if its driving ok and feels quick id not be concerned.
the only way otherwise is to try other rr`s... and even then you still get different figures. :shrug:
Damoegan
02-03-2008, 15:38
Not good mate. I'm getting mine on the rollers on thursday and I've got the same mods as yours so I'll post up my results to compare.
Before the remap I had my car on the same rollers that I'm going to on thursday and got 180.4bhp and 200ft/lb torque.
Damoegan
02-03-2008, 15:42
As traumapat said the graph does look good so I hope my graph has the same power curve as yours.
Peek power at 6k and peek torque at 3.4k and a nice smooth power curve but the numbers do seem low though!
traumapat
02-03-2008, 15:44
Not good mate. I'm getting mine on the rollers on thursday and I've got the same mods as yours so I'll post up my results to compare.
Before the remap I had my car on the same rollers that I'm going to on thursday and got 180.4bhp and 200ft/lb torque.
the same rollers as kriso`s just used?
Damoegan
02-03-2008, 15:46
the same rollers as kriso`s just used?
No mate, just the same rollers I'm going to on thursday.
P-torque.co.uk
02-03-2008, 16:05
Hmm, Dyno issue or hardware issue I think.
Ric 2001 had his stage 1 p-torque'd Ibiza dyno'd at Awesome, and made 222bhp
so for sake of arguement an FR gets 210bhp on a map. that's a +60bhp gain.
You can't then think that you will in turn get +60bhp
You'll both end up at the same number, the hardware is near identical (k03s doesn't make that much difference on a stage1 generic map)
Well I'm just going by what the re-map companies claim. True Revo both end up at the same figure. But P-Torque says 40bhp increase for Cupra from 180, and 42bhp increase for FR from 150. CC is a 15bhp difference between FR and Cupra too. I get your point, but 10bhp (assuming the rollers are accurate) isn't what I would expect from a claimed 40bhp.
Looking at the stock BHP and torque claims, I can see that the torque peak has shifted up the rev range considerably. It is lower than stock peak at 2000rpm (181), but peaks later and higher....which is nice cos the map just keeps on pulling up the revs which is what you want really. BHP would appear higher if torque didnt run off as much above 4500rpm.
Anyway, I'm not claiming something is wrong...just asking if it looks/sounds right. Appreciate the replies. :)
P-torque.co.uk
02-03-2008, 16:16
Hey Kriso
Heres the Dyno graph from another members P-Torque'd Ibiza Cupra
http://www.awesome-gti.co.uk/rollingroad/graph/rr.scn_14.07.07/09.jpg
Cheers, so it looks like my torque drops off a bit more quickly. And seems to come in later too. When you say hardware issue, do u mean a prob with my car? Any pointers as to what it could be?
Also I am thinking of trying an N75J, do you know if this would have any implications for my remap? Cheers.
ibizacupra
02-03-2008, 16:33
Not sure how comparing a.n.other dyno plot clarifies anything?
its just adding to the "Dyno Lottery" confusion.
Any logs done during the JKM run? what was the airflow like?
P-torque.co.uk
02-03-2008, 16:40
Not sure how comparing a.n.other dyno plot clarifies anything?
its just adding to the "Dyno Lottery" confusion.
Any logs done during the JKM run? what was the airflow like?
Hi, it was posted to show what the same mapping has acheived :)
P-torque.co.uk
02-03-2008, 16:42
Cheers, so it looks like my torque drops off a bit more quickly. And seems to come in later too. When you say hardware issue, do u mean a prob with my car? Any pointers as to what it could be?
Also I am thinking of trying an N75J, do you know if this would have any implications for my remap? Cheers.
Hi Kriso
Dyno's raise alot of confusion, I wouldn't worry. Its strange how the torque is peaking up at good figures (230ish+ lbs/ft)
ibizacupra
02-03-2008, 16:45
Hi, it was posted to show what the same mapping has acheived :)
or why not take it to stealth or jabba's inertia rollers and read higher readings again..
mrsB lupo has an apparent 250bhp from k03s... but it aint..
this is the usual outcome of a RR day... wish more people did logs whilst running the runs... so facts can be drawn from the runs.
I guess the only way is to try another RR. I know a certain well known someone at the RR day got 80BHP under what he got somewhere else :whistle:
Any advice on the N75j?
P-torque.co.uk
02-03-2008, 20:31
or why not take it to stealth or jabba's inertia rollers and read higher readings again..
mrsB lupo has an apparent 250bhp from k03s... but it aint..
this is the usual outcome of a RR day... wish more people did logs whilst running the runs... so facts can be drawn from the runs.
100% agree
P-torque.co.uk
02-03-2008, 20:32
I guess the only way is to try another RR. I know a certain well known someone at the RR day got 80BHP under what he got somewhere else :whistle:
Any advice on the N75j?
I dont think the valve is a problem. There are too many running the stock valve with very good figures. ;)
ok...just I am able to get hold of an n75j at a good price, so was wondering if would that not suit the map for some reason. But they are supposed to hold boost more so I will prob go ahead and get it.
too hot probably, that an dyno lottery
Were they doing the RR in the same gear?
Did they check fuelling too?
From my rather limited experience, RR outputs can be very different depending on the way they have been setup by the operator. Any slight adjustment can make big differences to output levels as well as different ambient temperatures, tyre pressure etc etc. In the past Ive always thought remaps best done with RR before and after at the mapping centre - although there is always the risk the figures can be manipulated or prove power gains
__B3NNY__
23-03-2008, 17:22
Take it with a pinch of salt bud, I had a run last year at jkm on a warm day and pulled 198bhp, not bad you may say BUT im running k03s and all the trimmings and revo stg2 mapping. I wasnt to happy.
Had a run in january at a differant set of rollers and pulled 231bhp also logged the car while doing the run and logs pointed to 231bhp also. The spec was exactly the same apart from a small amount of added timing and adjustment to the actuator rod.
Some seem to do well on JKM`s rollers and others seem to have a mear.
Damoegan
23-03-2008, 22:17
Any luck getting your problem sorted Kriso?
I'm still having problems, put a new MAF on and problem is still there! Might try a new N75 next week then it looks like a trip down to see Will if that dont help.
No, haven't sorted anything out with the car. I'm hoping its just the RR that isn't accurate. But JKM say it is, as you would expect. I remember they guy doing the run said it was running a little rich higher up the revs but that was proabbly to protect itself or something and it wasn't out of the ordinary.
See how the N75 goes mate, not sure what else your problem could be. I didn't like the N75J on mine, it seemed to cut boost higher up the revs so I went back to standard N75 after a few hours!
Damoegan
24-03-2008, 01:27
Are you going on another rr?
Think I might change all my vac pipes and hoes connections to ruel out a boost leak (dont think that is the problem though). Its just anoying me that its not holding the boost like it should?
wild willy
24-03-2008, 09:11
Have you tried logging mass air flow with vagcom.
Damoegan
24-03-2008, 11:23
Have you tried logging mass air flow with vagcom.
Not yet mate, I'm having problems getting VAG-COM to work on my vist laptop. Problem with that is I've just fitted a new MAF so that should be ruled out :shrug:
Any more sugestion?
__B3NNY__
24-03-2008, 18:18
I remember they guy doing the run said it was running a little rich higher up the revs but that was proabbly to protect itself or something and it wasn't out of the ordinary.
Funny that, he told me i was running lean high up the revs when i had a poor result there.
Damoegan
24-03-2008, 18:44
I'm running very lean too.
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa275/damo_egan/CIMG0034.jpg
Boost dropping off very early?
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa275/damo_egan/CIMG0033.jpg
And I can realy feel the part where the boost drops off and there is a big dip then the power starts to pick up again!
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa275/damo_egan/CIMG0035.jpg
Funny that, he told me i was running lean high up the revs when i had a poor result there.
Lean or rich will have the same effect in loss of power. Most cars run rich higher up the revs as the maps chuck in more fuel as the car gets hot to try and cool and protect it and to try and get more power. Others run lean as they cant keep up with fueling.
__B3NNY__
24-03-2008, 20:01
Damo what map are you running? Your graph there looks very simlar to mine im running revo stg2.
Ive put my dip in power and running slightly lean down to stg2 not being written for my setup. K03s etc....
Damoegan
24-03-2008, 21:09
Damo what map are you running? Your graph there looks very simlar to mine im running revo stg2.
Ive put my dip in power and running slightly lean down to stg2 not being written for my setup. K03s etc....
p-torque stg1 mate.
I think I'm gona have to take a trip back down to see Will at p-torque in the next few weeks.
Strange how your boost drops off and then picks up again, Damoegan. I don't see why it would do this. I think where it drops off at 1.2 bar is about the max for the P-Torque remap isnt it? Have you tried putting the stock DV back on to see if that makes a difference?
cordobabrendy
25-03-2008, 01:04
He isnt using an iffy n75 is he?
Damoegan
25-03-2008, 08:16
Strange how your boost drops off and then picks up again, Damoegan. I don't see why it would do this. I think where it drops off at 1.2 bar is about the max for the P-Torque remap isnt it? Have you tried putting the stock DV back on to see if that makes a difference?
Yea mate, 1.2bar is what it should be requesting as overboost then settle at about 1bar but its just not holding that 1bar!!
I'm gona try the standard DV back on today mate, but I realy dont think it is that as it felt the same before I changed it.
I've sent Will a pm to see what he thinks of it. I'll let you know what he says mate.
He isnt using an iffy n75 is he?
No mate, standard N75 valve