View Full Version : 1.8t engine
ibiza-b0y
13-04-2003, 13:08
currently own a ibiza 8v gti. am wondering if any1 has any ideas of how much i can expect to pay to a hold of a 1.8t engine. av got some1 that will fit the engine for £500 all in (including new belts plugs filters etc) that seem fair? also, am wondering if some1 can tell me the difference between the 150bhp and 180bhp engines - is it just differences in the ECU program?
or would i be better going straight for the 20vt engine?
any advice would be greatly appreciated.
cheers all,
andy
The 1.8T engine is the same as the 20VT unit and comes in various different states of tune, some with different turbos etc. In SEAT you can currently fins them in 156 and 180 bhp for Ibiza and 180 and 210bhp for Leon.
Sticking one of these lumps in a Mk2 Ibiza has been discussed before, have a look back to find the opinions. Most seem to say don't bother.
ibiza-b0y
13-04-2003, 18:40
well, whats the best way to go then? i want to keep my car but want well more power from it. i have sifted thru previous posts and cant find any real reason not to put in the 1.8t? i have uprated most stuff in the car, suspension, brakes strut braces... help?!?! :D
BeezerDiesel
13-04-2003, 19:26
Previous ones I've heard of had a mk3 front end grafted on.
Would be fairly easy to get 140 plus BHP out of your 8v and a lot less hassle.
'Best' is a bit subjective especially when we don't know how much money you want to spend, how reliable you want the conversion to be, how much power you want from it, what sort of driveability you want etc etc...
Is the £500 to fit a final figure from a 'friend' (with all the tools required)? This is all the labour cost right? If so you'll owe him a lot of beers cos that's a very keen price.
Doing it on the cheap may well end in tears.
A 1.8T (in Ibiza Cupra3) is no more powerful than a 2.0 16v and will give near identical performance.
To go faster you will have to do further mods.
If you want a quick shot of bhp, why not add NOS? Great for occassional use and can be fitted from circa £600 and if you use it sparingly you will not necessariy have to do any other engine mods.
You might find that once you have totted up all the costs that you will be financially better of selling the 8v and buying a 1.8T Ibiza.
A 1.8T conversion will cost you a few grand and when you come to sell you will get back almost none of the money you put in (1 reason not to do it); an Ibiza Cupra3 comes ready built and reliable like this and will have a far better residual value come sale time 2nd reason); the final cost for the conversion inc value of your 8v won't be far off the cost of a 2nd hand 1.8T Ibiza3 (3rd reason).
ibizacupra
14-04-2003, 08:45
£500 for fitting..
Does this mean drive in drive out for the £500.... if so its a very cheap price.
Souring a suitable donor motor will make this job either easy or v.difficult...
Ibiza 20VT into an Ibiza is going to be straight forward but not the most powerful 20VT.. Inlet manifold are opposite on 180motors to 156 ibiza motors for example.
the ECU and wiring is most likely to be hardest part of the conversion.
I do know a friend who converted his mates 16v ibiza into a 20VT one, but they had a complete donor 20VT ibiza to rob bits off.
If you have been quoted £500 for fitting, check what they will actually be doing....
regards
bill
"Inlet manifold are opposite on 180motors to 156 ibiza motors for example."
Yes, but not opposite to the 210/225 motors ;). That's good for some huge FMIC conversion ;).
ibiza-b0y
14-04-2003, 10:05
the £500 includes everything, my mate owns a garage, said it would also include new belts plugs filters etc, prob is tryin to get the engine :-/
or should i just get the 16v and nos it? :)
Not sure what the insurance is like with NOS in the boot or even if that is really legal. But if you just want those fleeting 200+bhp moments for manic acceleration then NOS can be effective. Use it too often or for sustained periods and you will melt your engine.
If going for the transplant route, then I'd forget the 16v cos you can buy that out of the box more economically, and look to find a 1.8T from a wrecked Audi A4.
Bear in mind you will need to spend another few hundred just on a chip and dump valve to get this lump near 200 bhp.
ibiza-b0y
14-04-2003, 17:53
why take the engine fae a audi a4? thats 4wd aint it? :-/
The same 1.8T engine (some different power outputs with different turbos etc) can be found across the entire VAG range. Pick up a Parkers or Glasses guide and any VAG listed with a 1.8T wil be workeable.
The Reeves and their Golfs got one of their's from an Audi A4 and it pushing circa 400bhp.
My cousin just fitted NOS to his Cavalier. Blew the engine up the first time he used it. He said it was fun while it lasted though!
It was a 140K mile engine though and he fitted it himself!
ibiza-b0y
15-04-2003, 15:49
ok then, is putting a 16v in to my 8v a straight swap (or near enough) just engine gearbox and loom?
Tony2Quick4u
15-04-2003, 16:02
Originally posted by ibiza-b0y
ok then, is putting a 16v in to my 8v a straight swap (or near enough) just engine gearbox and loom?
dont bother wasting your money from taking out your 8v and putting in a 16v, ok the 16v is quiker off the line, but on the motorway, i have had a blat with my mate who owns a 16v, there is hardly and i mean hardly any difference. come to think of it even racing around town, would be pretty even unless you are Colin Mcrae!
me i am sticking with my 8v and going for the head and cams and a full re-map, should shopefully be putting out 160bhp ish but will be a very nice torquey engine and very fun for every day driving and also track use. And will certainly give alot "faster" cars a good run for their money (apart from bills:D ;) )
stick with it mate, they are reliable and once you go stat messing about with engine swaps, perhaps reliability will be a difficult thing to find. could be in the workshop more than it is on the road.
Up to you anyway. I have mentioned and toyed with this idea for a very long time on this site, but the most sensible option (yes for once i am being sensible) is to go for the head/cams route, ok so it aint exactly cheap and there ae not huge amounts of power to be gained but at least it is keeping the characterisitics of the 8v and hopefully the reliability.
Happy driving
:cheers:
Originally posted by ibiza-b0y
ok then, is putting a 16v in to my 8v a straight swap (or near enough) just engine gearbox and loom?
Why don't you just buy an Ibiza 16v? You can transfer your mods over and the insurance on a 16v should be less than a transplanted car and yousave on the labour costs and cost of buying engine and ancillaries. That's at least £2000 to save.
ibiza-b0y
17-04-2003, 09:15
Originally posted by Tony2Quick4u
dont bother wasting your money from taking out your 8v and putting in a 16v, ok the 16v is quiker off the line, but on the motorway, i have had a blat with my mate who owns a 16v, there is hardly and i mean hardly any difference. come to think of it even racing around town, would be pretty even unless you are Colin Mcrae!
me i am sticking with my 8v and going for the head and cams and a full re-map, should shopefully be putting out 160bhp ish but will be a very nice torquey engine and very fun for every day driving and also track use. And will certainly give alot "faster" cars a good run for their money (apart from bills:D ;) )
stick with it mate, they are reliable and once you go stat messing about with engine swaps, perhaps reliability will be a difficult thing to find. could be in the workshop more than it is on the road.
Up to you anyway. I have mentioned and toyed with this idea for a very long time on this site, but the most sensible option (yes for once i am being sensible) is to go for the head/cams route, ok so it aint exactly cheap and there ae not huge amounts of power to be gained but at least it is keeping the characterisitics of the 8v and hopefully the reliability.
Happy driving
:cheers:
i cant mind if it was on hear that i read but getting the head done was pointless on AGG type engines (its what i have) cause the head is too small or something?
i like ma wee car just want more str8 line power, a can take any of ma mates on backroads nae bother (theyv all got vtecs n turbos) just h8 it when we goto crail on the 1/4 and a get skanked :-/
Tony2Quick4u
17-04-2003, 09:51
if you want more straight line power mate, you have bought the wrong car as the 8v is not meant for pure straight line power! i have learnt that for sure and respect the car now for what it is best at, the twisties.....:D
Originally posted by ibiza-b0y
i cant mind if it was on hear that i read but getting the head done was pointless on AGG type engines (its what i have) cause the head is too small or something?
i like ma wee car just want more str8 line power, a can take any of ma mates on backroads nae bother (theyv all got vtecs n turbos) just h8 it when we goto crail on the 1/4 and a get skanked :-/
Why don't you ditch that head and buy another one?
If you want better 1/4 mile times, lose some weight from the car perhaps?
Tony2Quick4u
17-04-2003, 11:23
Originally posted by edc
Why don't you ditch that head and buy another one?
If you want better 1/4 mile times, lose some weight from the car perhaps?
Ed you start to talk about swapping heads, it is silly amounts of money in which you could almost buy a 20vt for the amount you would spend
Bill quoted once on a different head, a crossflow one from a beetle, he mentioned the almighty sum of about 5k not sure if that was all in, it must have been for that sort of money, but its simply not worth spending that amount.
for 5k that would be a v. nice deposit on a Leon Cupra R!
:cheers:
Was that just a price for a brand new head? Or was it the full works inc fitting and mapping etc. A head alone surely isn't £5k, at least not one to fit an Ibiza.
Tony2Quick4u
17-04-2003, 12:02
Originally posted by edc
Was that just a price for a brand new head? Or was it the full works inc fitting and mapping etc. A head alone surely isn't £5k, at least not one to fit an Ibiza.
That is all in, but still rediculous amounts of money, but supposedly it will gain over 200BHP , yes with cams, flowed head etc. and i think that is without TB's
Bill is the man to ask, my memory is a bit vague
but then that is very good for N/A engine and advantage is, the power is nearly always the same with no turbo lag, so there are big adavantages to be had with N/A engines. so you could say the work/ money could be justified with the cost of the crossflow head etc.
:cheers:
ibizacupra
17-04-2003, 12:04
Originally posted by Tony2Quick4u
Ed you start to talk about swapping heads, it is silly amounts of money in which you could almost buy a 20vt for the amount you would spend
Bill quoted once on a different head, a crossflow one from a beetle, he mentioned the almighty sum of about 5k not sure if that was all in, it must have been for that sort of money, but its simply not worth spending that amount.
for 5k that would be a v. nice deposit on a Leon Cupra R!
:cheers:
when did I say that? I know I hav enever priced a crossflow 8v head... I have no idea how much it would cost... (find a right off 2.0 beetle for a donor, get it flowed and big valves fitted)
I don't remember quoting that.....Its not something I get into. (memory fades ;) )
TSR have done this conversion on a MK2 Golf, and used my throttle/ecu bits and bobs to make it run. Worth a call to them perhaps.
Throttle bodies c/w ecu and associated parts would be between £2K-£2.5K
TSR are having another crossflow 8v engine this year on their stand at International with my bodies on it, so you can have a look at it then. Its a nice setup.
regards
Bill
I remember one of my mates went out in a TSR 8v demo car and he said the torque was unbeliveable. I can't remember what conversion it had, although I think it was bored out to 2.1.
Tony2Quick4u
17-04-2003, 12:30
Originally posted by ibizacupra
when did I say that? I know I hav enever priced a crossflow 8v head... I have no idea how much it would cost... (find a right off 2.0 beetle for a donor, get it flowed and big valves fitted)
I don't remember quoting that.....Its not something I get into. (memory fades ;) )
TSR have done this conversion on a MK2 Golf, and used my throttle/ecu bits and bobs to make it run. Worth a call to them perhaps.
Throttle bodies c/w ecu and associated parts would be between £2K-£2.5K
TSR are having another crossflow 8v engine this year on their stand at International with my bodies on it, so you can have a look at it then. Its a nice setup.
regards
Bill
Bill your memory is fading, i promise ya you said that! all that racing or G-force;) in ur Ibiza is effecting your brain.
is it perhaps you got to work so fast this morning that your brain is still trying to catch up as you left it down the road!!:D :p
ibizacupra
17-04-2003, 13:33
Originally posted by Tony2Quick4u
Bill your memory is fading, i promise ya you said that! all that racing or G-force;) in ur Ibiza is effecting your brain.
is it perhaps you got to work so fast this morning that your brain is still trying to catch up as you left it down the road!!:D :p
LOL
I had to trade in my original brain... It did'nt like the prospect of 300+bhp :p got me a dim wit brain now.... which loves it ;)
The £5K figure may well equate to what TSR could offer for this.... but it does seem steep looking at it now.
regards
Bill
Tony2Quick4u
17-04-2003, 14:10
Originally posted by ibizacupra
LOL
I had to trade in my original brain... It did'nt like the prospect of 300+bhp :p got me a dim wit brain now.... which loves it ;)
The £5K figure may well equate to what TSR could offer for this.... but it does seem steep looking at it now.
regards
Bill
how much is a Jabba 300BHP+ brain then, expensive i can imagine?
ibizacupra
17-04-2003, 15:53
I'd tell ya but this brain can't do numbers or adding up :p