View Full Version : Dawes Device Yeehaaaaaa
:devil:
For all of you out there that are on the verge of parting with a large amount of your hard earned for a chip from one the tuning companies..............DON'T
For the last month I have been running a Dawes Device on my'02 Cupra leon at a rock solid 1 bar boost.
Due my occupation I can confirm that a thus equipped Cupra will run a 6.4 second 0 to 60 (hand held laser confirmed!!!!!!)By the way It wastes my works Octavia RS
Running at stock pressure there feels to be a defined quicker rise on boost which in its own right equates to faster in gear times and when carefully raised(using a good boost gauge to monitor)these babies fly.
How about a 0 to 60 of 7.1 up a gradient?
I have tried running it with the stock n75 valve and currently have it running with the '75 disabled.
The Dawes device eliminates boosts spikes and I can confirm this.
Save your chip money or better still by a bigger intercooler and gain more bhp.
This is my first post on the site and I intend to create a how to fit for the dawes device inc. photos soon!!
'02 Leon Cupra Met Silver Leather ecotec/dawes/forge diverter/17" Kosei racers/Koni Shocks/Eibach springs Bitchin
Sounds like you may be the first, but how do you compensate for the fuelling?
Very intrigued that the car doesnt mind running with the N75 disconnected.
LEO LION R
29-04-2003, 17:09
I'd be very interested to hear about it, as i asked about it a long time ago and no one got anywhere with it -see here (http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?threadid=4850&highlight=dawes+device)
It's pretty cheap £35 + boost gauge etc i believe and needs minimal monthly maintenance check.
Keep us posted.
:cheers:
I'm also using a dawes device on my ibiza 1.8T for some time now.
It has got some issues and to be on the safe side a chip is needed too (to compensate fuelling and advance timing in order to gain some extra hp). According to professionals the ECU will automatically adjust fuelling, so the mixture won't lean out BUT i would verify this with an A/F gauge and/or VAG-COM before using DD on an unchipped engine.
It is really a LOT better than the stock N75 valve, it holds boost rock solid and spool up time is faster. Peak torque (at ~1.1 bar) on my small K03, 320NM (~237lbfts) is available around 2500 RPM.
But what are the drawbacks then?
ECU and its dynamic boost request. What does it mean?
The requested boost level is not at the maximum in most of the times! If you are just cruising around the town and don't push the accelerator pedal (that much), the requested boost will be lower, lets say only 40-50% of the maximum boost. The ECU will ask for just 0.5 bar (because you are pushing the pedal 50% only f.eg), but the DD will still deliver 1.0 bar (as it is quite stupid). ECU will recognise the excessive boost and it will go into limp mode and/or close the throttle body immediately. That's a bad thing.
Imagine just cruising around slowly, you hit 2500 rpm (accidentally) and turbo will spool up like hell, car will boost like hell, and in 0.5-1 sec a sudden jerk and all power is lost.
The DawesDevice works good only under at FULL THROTTLE and NOT at partial throttle. Why only at full throttle? Because at full throttle the requested boost is at maximum, so the ECU will not recognise a fault (since the requested boost will be high too) and the car will fly!
I am now working on a system which enables DD to work only at full throttle and not at partial throttle...
Sounds like something the Germans used in the war.
ibizacupra
29-04-2003, 19:29
Originally posted by fickel
:devil:
For all of you out there that are on the verge of parting with a large amount of your hard earned for a chip from one the tuning companies..............DON'T
For the last month I have been running a Dawes Device on my'02 Cupra leon at a rock solid 1 bar boost.
Due my occupation I can confirm that a thus equipped Cupra will run a 6.4 second 0 to 60 (hand held laser confirmed!!!!!!)By the way It wastes my works Octavia RS
Running at stock pressure there feels to be a defined quicker rise on boost which in its own right equates to faster in gear times and when carefully raised(using a good boost gauge to monitor)these babies fly.
How about a 0 to 60 of 7.1 up a gradient?
I have tried running it with the stock n75 valve and currently have it running with the '75 disabled.
The Dawes device eliminates boosts spikes and I can confirm this.
Save your chip money or better still by a bigger intercooler and gain more bhp.
This is my first post on the site and I intend to create a how to fit for the dawes device inc. photos soon!!
'02 Leon Cupra Met Silver Leather ecotec/dawes/forge diverter/17" Kosei racers/Koni Shocks/Eibach springs Bitchin
Yep.. you have now got more boost.
What you don't have is the correct fueling and ignition advance to go with it.
Keep up with the higher boost and you risk burnt exhaust valve, dropped valve and dead engine.
At your risk.
Bill
Lot of talk on forums.tdiclub.com about dawes devices...
don't know if diesels and petrol engines have the same issues with this !!
LEO LION R
30-04-2003, 09:57
I've heard of a few people using the Dawes Device of Scoobies, and very succesfully too.
Can't see why it can't be made to work on the 1.8T by some smart techie folks.
:cheers:
slim_boy_fat
30-04-2003, 11:13
In my day a Dawes was a touring bike!!!!!
Crude and ultimately potentially dangerous (to your engine)... about as technically advanced as a set of mole grips on the wastegate pipe would be.
As Bill says, use at your own risk.
:(
Ooops may have put my foot in it with my very first post on cupranet!!!!!!!
There's clearly a lot of you out there that know a great deal about this engine.
One point I would like to make that during my intial setting up period and more importantly whilst the n75 was still in place I did note that the boost would spool up to what I had dialed in and then as the rpm climbed the boost would fall off back to the factory setting (at redline).
Maybe that a DD could be used Cautiously and conservatively for a faster rise time at standard boost to improve general drivability and in gear flexibility.
I do agree that in this day and age you don't get something for next to nothing
Originally posted by fickel
as the rpm climbed the boost would fall off back to the factory setting
Yes, becuase the small turbo (K03) cannot really push more air than that at high rpms.
Dawes' CAN be used, but not on stock programming in my opinion.
cheshire cat
02-05-2003, 16:51
I've had a homemade one on my Nissan Terrano (tractor) for some years, homemade from plumbing fittings for approx £3 only recently found out what a Dawes Deivce was, it works on there but is NOT quite the same thing as state of the art diesel and wouldn't fit it to a petrol engine. NB if set up on a guage first, before fitting, mine needed another 3psi to arrive at the required boost pressure, I put this down to gas pressure on the wastegate in operation
The ECU will compensate to a certain degree for the fueling up to a certain amount of boost. Around 14-15 psi I believe. But it wont be absolutely optimised, as a proper chip (preferably non generic) would do. If the fueling was not increased at all to match the added boost, the car would most likely run pretty badly and may over heat also. Over 14-15 psi of boost without proper programming, and the ECU cant effectively cope. So would certainly be quite dangerous for the engine.
Plus as others have said, the timing wont be optimised either, so the car just wont make as much power as it could with just boost level alterations. Add in the appropriate timing and fueling changes as well, and much more power will be had for the same amount of boost.
Also, I dont think i'd use anything like a Dawes Device with a chip aswell. The chip will have been programmed to work with it's programmed level of boost. As soon as you mess with that, you are making a mockery of the tuners hard programming work. Again, rather risky for your engine, especially once it's already been tuned and under a lot more stress.. Not good to be taking silly risks at this point, in my opinion.
Originally posted by Nippa
tuners hard programming work
I'd hate so say but not all tuners do a good job. Also the factory N75 valve can't perfectly cope with the increased amount of boost (surging/limping in most of the cases). Been there, done that.
Originally posted by LEO LION R
I've heard of a few people using the Dawes Device of Scoobies, and very succesfully too.
Can't see why it can't be made to work on the 1.8T by some smart techie folks.
:cheers:
people with scoobies are not doubling the boost pressure without an increase in fueling. I only increased pressure by 3psi on my GT, I also found that I lost midrange torque compared to factory boost controller but peak was better. peak boost also comes in quicker.
Originally posted by Sim
I'd hate so say but not all tuners do a good job. Also the factory N75 valve can't perfectly cope with the increased amount of boost (surging/limping in most of the cases). Been there, done that.
Fair point in some ways. Of course a good chip will be programmed to work well with the stock N75's. This is another reason why a custom made chip (Such as Jabba & AMD etc) will always be better than a generic chip. And this is something I hinted at in my post above. My car peaks at over 15psi of boost, and uses a bone stock N75. And there is zero problems such as surging etc (my car is Jabba'd).
Buy good stuff, Get good results. Buy not so good stuff and then add botches such as glorified fish tank valves or whatever, and you can fully expect trouble.
Shock_Xe
04-05-2003, 19:18
Originally posted by Nippa
Fair point in some ways. Of course a good chip will be programmed to work well with the stock N75's. This is another reason why a custom made chip (Such as Jabba & AMD etc) will always be better than a generic chip. And this is something I hinted at in my post above. My car peaks at over 15psi of boost, and uses a bone stock N75. And there is zero problems such as surging etc (my car is Jabba'd).
Buy good stuff, Get good results. Buy not so good stuff and then add botches such as glorified fish tank valves or whatever, and you can fully expect trouble.
agree, buy quality get quality.... I got revo and i boost spike at 20psi and hold 18psi.... Sometimes even hold 20psi in 5th and when on high 9 and no problems what so ever, only upgrades include forge dv and hurricane..
Originally posted by Shock_Xe
i boost spike at 20psi and hold 18psi.... Sometimes even hold 20psi in 5th and
To be the honest running this high boost is more dangerous than running a DD (with chipped ecu) at just 14 psi in my opinion. (especially considering that the highest measurable boost is 2200 millibars (1.2bar ~17.5psi) on the ibiza ECU). Running 20psi would probably causing serious surging, but maybe/probably you didn't realise that your motor is surging... I wish you were right and surging less. Keeping fingers crossed ;).
Shock_Xe
04-05-2003, 23:03
Its not surging! My self and Andy Blunt are both running 1.25bar constant with no problems for last 6 mths, smoother and faster than my old APR 1.0bar. Andy, Rich Revo and others have even been running high boost (1.35 bar) constant with no problems. However it is gradual and full boost kicks in at around 3,500 rpm.
Surly this is safer than the DD as fueling is there to suit the boost and timing etc is adjusted to suit.
Originally posted by Shock_Xe
Surly this is safer than the DD as fueling is there to suit the boost and timing etc is adjusted to suit.
You got me wrong, i'm not saying a plain DD is better, but it fixes surging and boost problems on chipped cars. I'm not recommending DD for unchipped cars at all. Currently i am running less boost with my DD than my chip asks for, but still the car runs a lot more faster - why would be it dangerous/why would it cause problems runnnig less boost??? I wish we could do some race and you'd realise what i mean ;).
Full boost at 3500 RPM, yes that may be a cure for the surging, but imagine the same full boost at 2400 RPM, which means a more powerful/torquey car ;).