View Full Version : Take on a Porsche Boxster S
rriveroll
03-12-2001, 15:36
Im still shaking. Last nigh found myself roadracing with a Porsche Boxster S on a 5 km, uphill twisty road. In short, my Ibiza kicked his ass.
In terms of power he had a little more bottom end, I had a little more top end. A believe a Boxter S has about 250HP and weighs 1300KG. An Ibiza Turbo Weighs about 1100 KG and I reckon mine has about 240-250HP. It makes sence that he has more bottom end because of the larger displacement engine, I had more top end (better power/weight ratio)
In terms of handling I completely blew him off. Those Bilstein PSS9 do handle well. Maybe he just didnt know how to push it but what I saw from behind him (for only about 1/2 a minute) the Boxsters rear end is all over the place. Maybe with a better driver he would had blew me off, who knows. He then chickened out in a little wet strip on the road and thats where I passed him. After that I just kept on enlarging the distance between us with every turn.
I waited for him at the top of the road and he stopped and couldnt believe it. He asked me if I had any mods on the car, and I sayd, no (he must still be wondering why an ibiza is faster than a Porsche) hahaha.
In terms of Braking I would say we where about the same, but its hard to judge braking in an uphill situation.
Well in short these cars can be made to go very fast, the only trick is to get used to the front wheel drive.
Now perhaps the non belivers will believe me.
I too done the same in my Leon :)
vr6-ibiza
03-12-2001, 22:20
me also,
but dying to race a scoooby
I raced a scooby a while back and was very surprised to be keeping up with it!, every time we got stuck behind another car and it moved over he gunned the throttle, so did i and to my amazement he never got away!!, although i couldnt hae overtaken him at any point!:D
Yes, the Subaru Justy isn't the performance icon it once was...;)
:D :cool: :D , it was definitly a impreza turbo!, but i recon t was the 218Bhp uk spec version as i cant see me keeping up with an import scooby!
I have tried keeping up with a 245bhp UK300 that has been 'pro-drived' and it can't be done even with my 215 ponies!!! Even the 4WD weight sacrifice made by the Scoobie isn't enought to slow it down enough for me to get anywhere near it!
Hurumpfh!!
Rich
What we need is some scooby owners to do some 40-80, 80-100, 100-120 timings for us to compare against!, done in the fastest gear they have got
Rich,
How much loss was measured throgh your gearbox when you got your RR plot?, just curious as mine worked out to 9%
Gadge20vt
04-12-2001, 11:58
My standard ibiza cupra has managed to keep up with my mates dads standard Impreza UK300. Dont know what it would be like with the pro drive mods though. I was right behind him from 50mph right up until 142mph then the traffic started to get a bit heavy so we both decided to take it a bit easier. I never at any point had enough power to overtake him, but I was right behind him all the way.
The look on my mates dads face was priceless... a £13K Ibiza keepin up with a £25K scooby. He was not amused..hahahaha
If its like that in standard form then whats it going to be like once I get the 210 conversion done.
:D
I can't obviously speak for the rest of you, but after 3 Impreza Turbos over the last 7 years, I can say my Std Leon Cupra would not even get close to one in a straight line - at any speed - and if there were corners involved... Forget it.
As for Boxters? Not worth the petrol to "do" them. Current 911s are more in the pre 2001 Impreza Turbo's league.
Hey,
Didn't have mine RR' so cannot tell....I just got teh 215BHP RSD conversion....
Presume there will be 30 horses or so lost in transmission....
Rich
Judging by Mossers 0-100 times I think an upsoluted Leon Cupra would give an Imreza turbo a good run for its money on a straight road of course. 212hp v's 215bhp respectively with the Leon being the lighter one of the two. Completely agree with Toonman about corners, there's not much to touch the Scooby there.
Autocars tested 0-100 for an Impreza is 17.03
Mossers (albeit hand timed) 0-100 14.83 (see leon forum)
With all due respect to Mosser, his Stopwatch and his Cupra's Speedo, how accurate do you think his time is? Not very I would say... Surely by now we all know not to treat our car's speedo as being accurate??? 0-100? More like 0-high 80s. Were the times an average of a number of timed runs? In both directions? Thought not.
Besides, with a 0-60 time in the low fives, the Scooby'll be long gone whilst the Leon burns rubber (TCS control on or off); how relevant is a 0-100 time in today's road conditions?
Keep on trying to convince yourselves Guys...
At an indicated 100mph my car is doing 97mph actual speed, and why would you take the average when doing a 0-100?, sometimes you get a better start than other times and should take the best time indicated!,
not possible to do them in the other direction due to traffic!, its difficult finding a gap in the traffic on a dual carriageway long enough for me to come to a complete stop anyway, let alone trying to find it at the same position going the other way!!,
if there are any timed events going on down my way then i will go along and see what my car is capable of, but the times i have recorded are the best i can do with the equipment available to me and done just to give an indication of what my car is capable of!,
If your around next time i am up in hull Toonman i can give you a spin in it just so you can do the timing and verify that these times are what they say they are and compare it to a standard Leon!,
This is exactly my point... The professionals DO average times, to remove variables, such as wind assistance, inclines etc. Times shouldn't be compared between cars that are checked in vastly different ways... They also stick to set weight limits. Autocar and Motor magazines I seem to remember, timed cars with driver + passenger, test equipment and half a tank of fuel. Evo magazine did a 0-60 one way run and got something like 5.03 secs for a std Impreza Turbo, but pointed out that it was fairly unrealistic and shouldn't be treated as their best time for the car - that's them talking, not me.
Thanks for your offer of a trip in your car. Maybe if you're ever in my area, I'll take you up on it. Unfortunately, I've only ever been to Hull twice in my life and it's likely to be another 21.5 years before I go there again! If you're ever in the North East though, maybe we could meet up. As I've said before, I'd like to see how the chassis copes with the extra power.
Cheers
Mike
Oh, i thought you liven in Hull!, what town do you live in then?, i was in bracknell, newcastle, manchester and hull last wednesday!
I'm near Yarm in Cleveland. Handy for the A19 in North Yorks or the A1m near Darlington.
I think Scoobster's in Hull.
Oh yeah, thats who i was thinking of!, i will let you know if i get up that way soon!
Found yarm!, i travel up to scarborough, north york moors national park and newcastle fairly often so will let you know next time!, although wont be this week cos i dont get my car back from the LPG conversion till friday :mad:
Okay, thanks. Try not to have too much PC gear in the boot though - I want real acceleration from your car!
Take care
Mike
:D , i always carry my default 40 Kilos around!, never take that out cso i need it for my job!, my toolcase alone weighs 27 kilos:eek: , it always gets slapped witha heavy baggage sticker on planes!!
I really can't imagine that there is much in it between a standard
Scooby and a chipped Leon Cupra.
Both have almost identical bhp, I think the Leon has slightly more torque, but the Leon is definately lighter, surely this gives it a better power to weight ratio ? Maybe the four wheel drive will always assist in a standing start, but the in gear figures for the Leon should be close !
Correct me if I'm wrong ?
BTW the Autocar 0-100-0 test cars have half a tank of fuel but no passenger and they made no mention of average times.
Cheers Toonman,
Iwill text you if i find myself suddenly up there!, otherwise i will let you know through email or this forum!
Look forward to it Mosser
With the amount of extra power the upsoluted leon has got i certainly know that a standard leon couldnt get anywhere near keeping up with a chipped one!, when i first got it chipped i couldnt believe how much extra power was available!!, i had imagned what the 17% power increase would feel like but it feels like far more than that!
Scoobster
05-12-2001, 13:00
Just as a note..
Hull lad.. yup.. that would be me.. :D
Oh when its dull.. you know you're in hull.. n all that..
As for beating Scooby's.. you will give a most of them a good run for their money.. my brothers A4 1.8T Quattro will beat a standard Scooby (uk version and not P1) for ingear acceleration.
A guy I work with has a P1 and it flys... another lad I know who is a footballer (pro) has just bought a 'pro-drive' scoobster and it is like a smelly substance off a shovel...!!
There is also a Scooby 22B STi import around here and I have tried to gun it to follow the guy when he launches and in my standard Beeza Cupra (fairly quick car) he easily pulls away.. he doesn't leave me standing but the power is far superior.. would like to see how a chipped beeza feels.. still toying with the idea of getting mine done next summer.. hmmmmmmm..
Next summer!!!, don't wait that long!, when you get the chip you'll wonder why you didnt get it earlier!, i know i do!:D
Just read the story about the boxster losing out big time. The handling is shte, I know this because we had 1 in p/x (Work @ Mercedes garage) Got one of the saleman to take me out and the handling is all over the place!:(
The back really flew round quickly (he only just managed to save it!:sick: ) This is somebody who used to drive an older Porsche 911. He thought the handling was absolute crap, I'd have to agree!
Go on the beeza:devil:
Rapido, please read these quotes on the Porsche Boxster below;
"In fact, the Boxster's superior chassis dynamics are best appreciated when it's being pushed hard in demanding conditions. The Boxster's composure, stability and road-holding in these situations are all outstanding" Autocar
"Performance and Handling are exemplary. The Boxster is one of the great sports cars" What Car
"Until you actually take control of Porsche’s quickest Boxster, it’s near-impossible to comprehend the perfect poise, balance and quite outrageous doses of grip it has to offer" Top Gear magazine
There are loads of other tests which all say exactly the same thing.
How you can call the handling of a Porsche Boster "crap" is beyond me. Every single test I have ever seen on the boxter goes on and on about its superb handling. And yes, before you ask I have driven one !!
RTV,
I was over at the porsche equivalent of this web site a month ago and almost all the boxster people were complaining about lack of power mainly, one owner was saying that he was outdragged by a BMW 325tds!!!, and he was really pissed off and saying that he was going to sell it cos it was the most disappointing car he had ever owned!, and all the other porker owners were agreeing that he was best off selling it and getting a 911 instead, he also said that he would have liked to have given it to his wife but he didnt trust the stability and handling of the car either!,
So if porker owners themselves slate the boxster i dont think there is much left for them!,
Sometimes i think that the magazines are paid by the manufacturers to give good reviews to indifferent or not so good cars:eek:
rriveroll
05-12-2001, 22:31
Guys in my post I sepcified it was against a Boxster S (not the regular one) which is almost as powerfull as my steroid Ibiza.
Anyway is the "fast" Boxster is slower than a K04 Ibiza, then the "slow" one must be equivalent or slower to a 210HP Chipped Ibiza.
OVNIYELLOW
06-12-2001, 00:11
Been on the beer again, sorry!
I agree with RTV, I havnt driven a boxter or a scooby, but I'm sure from all my hours of research in magazines and on the net, that you can't compare these cars with a 15k Leon (even chippped!), the scooby originates from the the rally circuit and has excellent handling 4WD and 0-60 in 5 . something seconds!
The porsche, well the name says it all! Years of excellent german engineering performance and design.
I just don't think U can compare a cheap VW Golf based car to the above mentioned!!!(your all gonna hate me!)
These people that keep saying I raced this and raced that, U may be better drivers or maybe the guys in the scooby's/porsches aren't as f*cking barmy!!!
The Leon is a lovely affordable 'performance bargain' but not in the same league with regards to the performance and handling of the porsche/scoobys!
if money was no object I'm sure a big percentage of us in here would rather have a lovely boxter convertable or a new shape WRX.
Anyway, sorry guys, and I will try my hardest to stay of fthe beer tommorrow!
:cheers:
Lee and RTV are quite right.
I HAVE driven a Boxter (std not an S) - pretty hard too and I've yacked on about my past Scooby experience often enough. Both are wonderful cars, albeit the Porsche chassis needed more power (hence the S). I haven't driven a Ibiza Cupra of course, 'cos the thing was too flamin' small inside for me to drive... :sick: More room in a Ka! Apologies to all the Beezer drivers around, but it isn't very big inside.
This is starting to become a boring thread. To all the Leon/Beezer/Arosa drivers that regularly stuff, Boxters, EVOs, etc, and often come across Ricky Burns slowing them down in his Scooby WRC/Pug 206 WRC - good luck! You're all obviously much better drivers than I am or ever was. Night, night.
Why does noone believe a chipped Leon can take on a standard impreza?,
The leon has 212Bhp and 300Nm torque
The Impreza had 218Bhp and 292Nm torque and is heavier and 4WD,
Surely these stats tell you that in gear acceleration is in favour of the Leon?, and that 0-60 is in the favour of the impreza cos of 4wd?,
So unless the scooby is non standard uk spec the leon can keep up
I have driven a Boxster, my friend's, took it quite easy. He took me for a drive in it, not taking it easy - eat my Leon for breakfast. Scooby, it would eat my leon for breakfast.
Why does noone believe a chipped Leon can take on a standard impreza?,
I believe you mosser!
I agree with RTV, I havnt driven a boxter or a scooby, but I'm sure from all my hours of research in magazines and on the net, that you can't compare these cars with a 15k Leon (even chippped!), the scooby originates from the the rally circuit and has excellent handling 4WD and 0-60 in 5 . something seconds!
the standard scooby does 0 - 60 in 6.3 sec ish, the new sti is about 0 - 60 in 5 sec ish,
also the turbo comes in at 3000 rpm ish on scooby (i believe, if i am wrong let me know), so you get a big kick, and the car takes off.
on the leon the turbo comes in at just under 2000 rpm, not such a big kick, but you get a steady. solid acceration all the way to max power,
so the effects are it just doesn't feel as fast, but is quite good really.
dave
Cheers Dave :D ,
Is that all the standard scooby can manage with its 4WD?, thought it would have been quicker than that!
Mosser , we should get a job selling these leon cupra,s , we could sell loads, we had pletty practice on this forum!, convincing people that the leon is a great car.
dave
More like we should get comission because of the number of times i demonstrate to other far more expensive cars just how fast a leon is!! (and how slow their car is!)
rriveroll
06-12-2001, 22:46
put me in on that deal, after all I started the thread
Mosser, Std Impreza Turbos ARE faster than that... Where have you been since April 1994??? Autocar got the original 208bhp model to hit 60 in 5.4 secs, then ran their long term test car to it in 5.2 and had a '98 5 door reach it in 5.3 secs. All averaged, 2 way runs, with half a tank of fuel, test gear and driver + passenger. Evo show 5.4 secs too. Even the new, deadly looking WRX heavyweight clocks 5.7 secs.
30-70 times, show nearly a 2.5 sec advantage to the Scooby, over a std Leon Cupra.
My last Turbo's only engine mod was a Ram Air filter and it kicked out 245bhp. Very few ever show Subaru quoted power levels.
And there I go again; said I wasn't going to get involved in this one again... Doh! :hammer:
It sounds like one of the things that irritates you Toonman!!;) ,
I'm afraid i only know that i have followed a few scoobies and when they notice me on their tail waiting for them to move over they invariably put their foot to the floor to try and teach me a lesson!, but it doesnt work most of the time cos half a mile down the road i am still on their tail,
Maybe impreza drivers cant be bothered to try and beat me, or maybe i can keep up with them!, we will never know:D ,
Although we are usually doing 60-70 mph when it starts,
I have never tried to race one off of the lights, on the assumpion that it would be silly to as they would 'whip my ass' so to speak, because of the 4wd!!
Oh and i forgot to say, my leon isnt standard, it has an upsolute chip in it, maybe that makes the difference for me on 30-70 sprints?
Mosser, "Forgot to say"?
We ALL know you have a chipped car - you've been telling us about it for weeks...
If you spend your time driving in straight lines, maybe you can keep up with a Scooby, but who drives in straight lines all day? I don't, and never did or wanted to. Rallying was always my sport - competed in the European Rally Championship amongst others - not drag racing.
I've no idea what "irritation" you're referring to. I own a Leon Cupra and am very pleased with it. It's a good value, well built runaround, that I find fun to drive, with decent performance and handling (shame about the traction). I'd even go so far as to say I'm delighted with it, but I'm not getting the vehicle out of perspective. It's not the World beater that some in here seem to think it is. Out of the Box Civic Type R anyone?
Wanting more performance than the Impreza, lead me to a TVR Tuscan S; more raw thrills than the slightly diluted efforts of the new WRX.
Now, this is my last word on this, although of course it won't be yours Mosser. Happy driving.
:)
Mike
Its funny you should mention the Civic Type R !
Did anyone see the test in AutoExpress a few months back between the Leon and the Type R.
The Leon beat the Civic 0-60 and the in gear figures 30-70 were near identical !
I saw it mate, the leon is good for in-gear acceration, i saw in the top gear mag, the in- gear stuff for the leon was the same as a clio v6!
dave
Neil1982
16-12-2001, 23:38
Originally posted by Gadge20vt
My standard ibiza cupra has managed to keep up with my mates dads standard Impreza UK300. Dont know what it would be like with the pro drive mods though. I was right behind him from 50mph right up until 142mph then the traffic started to get a bit heavy so we both decided to take it a bit easier. I never at any point had enough power to overtake him, but I was right behind him all the way.
:D
Gadge there is no way a standard Cupra could keep up with a Uk300! I have raced Meeko in my Primera SRi (GT engine mods, around 145-150 hp) and he can't pull away from me at all from 60-100!(we stopped at 100 by the way) He has also raced my bro's old Laguna V6 (194 hp 24 valve, 3.0 L) and it makes a fool out of the Ibiza Cupra Turbo! my bro now has a 172 mrk 2 and he totally blows my Primera away so i can't wait to see what it does to Meekos standard Cupra.:devil: :D
Neil
Dunfermline
I have a friend who got the first Clio V6 in the UK and sorry to say that none of the Leons or Beezas go near it...........Clio 172 maybe!
Si