View Full Version : Pasty Wagon Weight Loss Continues....
Hi
Latest update on bits coming off the pasty wagon.
Bought a most excellent 10mm cobalt spot weld drill from my local welding emporium Sat morning (£8). Went home and removed all unused bracketry at the inside rear of the car (2 brackets rear of wheel well, 2 big 'hump' brackets with captive nuts above and behind rear arches, 2 'box' brackets with captive nuts above and infront or rear arches, tabs on both rear strut turrets, small bracket behind and low on passenger rear arch, plate in base of wheel well that bolt goes through to hold spare wheel down). Also ground off 10 or so unused captive bolts.
Drill is ace - knife through butter - regular HSS drills didn't want to know. Going to get a full set or regular cobalt drills now.
Total saving.......0.92Kg. Yes I was disappointed.
Hmm. Its getting more tricky now. Next is door innerds continued when I get a 'nibbler'.
Also now fitted are new rear shocks ans springs - polo 4 / Ibiza Spax RSX kit with bugpack Golf 2 upper poly mounts. Very nice - better ride at rear, 250lb springs, lots of travel. Old shocks were Golf 3 RSX items with 200 lb springs which were ok but were too long really and not enough travel - used to hit bumpstops sometimes.
Curborough this coming weekend, sun, for championships round 2.
Ave it
Rob
max_torque
12-05-2003, 13:33
AH, nice one
I spend weekend making a set of moulds to lay up some carbon trims for the inner rear wheel arches. (that big gap you get when you take out the rear trims from behind the B pillars) I'll let you know what they look like when i've made then in a few days time - should be pretty light and look nice!
Doors are seriously heavy, but to lose a lot of weight your gonna have to sacrifice both the window winding mechanism (perspex windows) and the crash bar. The first one makes driving the car on damp days a pain, the second you might be glad of if you ever fall off!
I'm gonna see how much my car weighs with std doors (but with Cf inner moulding) and only butcher them further if i'm too heavy. Either that or i might get a set of "sprint" doors for trackdays with no inners/ perspex windows and Cf skinned!
Originally posted by max_torque
AH, nice one
I spend weekend making a set of moulds to lay up some carbon trims for the inner rear wheel arches. (that big gap you get when you take out the rear trims from behind the B pillars) I'll let you know what they look like when i've made then in a few days time - should be pretty light and look nice!
Doors are seriously heavy, but to lose a lot of weight your gonna have to sacrifice both the window winding mechanism (perspex windows) and the crash bar. The first one makes driving the car on damp days a pain, the second you might be glad of if you ever fall off!
I'm gonna see how much my car weighs with std doors (but with Cf inner moulding) and only butcher them further if i'm too heavy. Either that or i might get a set of "sprint" doors for trackdays with no inners/ perspex windows and Cf skinned!
Hi
re. trims - I have rivetted some thick plastic sheet over the holes - very light but not as nice looking as carbon !
Any news on the bonnet mould ?
Cheers
Rob
Hi
Attacked the drivers side door this weekend - removed some big bits of tin from the door innerds and made room to get the grinder in to remove the door bar (this would not be a recommended thing to do if you dont have a roll cage with door bars fitted - safety and all that). Scraped copious amounts of thick white wax from the bottom inside of the door (put back a much smaller quantity of waxoil for corrosion resistance) and removed more sound deadening (tar paper like stuff) from the inside of the door skin.
Purchased a 'nibbler' from machine mart for the tin removal (£40) - very nice bit of kit and very quick.
Primer over all newly exposed surfaces.
Total weight removal from one door - 1.7kg for door bar and 1kg additional metal = 2.7Kg
This was not stripping every last bit of metal out and drilling a million holes either - perhaps not worth doing much more as the tin don't weigh much actually.
You wouldn't know it was done by looking at it - can tell when you close the door though, feels much lighter.
Passenger side door next.
Ave it
Rob
Dormouse
27-05-2003, 12:26
You done the sunroof and associated mechanicals yet Rob?
Dor.
Originally posted by Dormouse
You done the sunroof and associated mechanicals yet Rob?
Dor.
Yes - now fitted with ali panel. Looks well cool and is big time light.
Ave it
Rob
Dormouse
27-05-2003, 12:37
How muchos did it all weight?
Dor.
Originally posted by Dormouse
How muchos did it all weight?
Dor.
Hard to get an exact figure on this one I'm afraid since I used some of the old sunroof bits in the new install - some of the ali tracking-, cut the whole mechanism apart during the 'modification', threw one bit away without weighing it and lost another bit (?go figure?) - it was at least 5Kg, probably nearer 6.
Way high up in the car though - big effect on handling.
Cheers
Rob
max_torque
27-05-2003, 18:40
Talking about getting some weight off the doors, bin the std mirrors (1.458 kg each!) and get some SPA ones. Made some nice Cf bases for them, total weight inc mirror 248 grams!
(thats the best part of 2.5kg of weight gone from high up on the car!):D
dammit - you beat me to it
I saw them @ GP racewear on friday & was going to go back & pick one (two would be heavy, lavish & unnececary) up when i buy my steering wheel
M
as seen on most golfs in pvw:D
max_torque
27-05-2003, 21:26
Originally posted by jason
as seen on most golfs in pvw:D
DOH!
looks like they might be coming off my car soon then!
(mind you with the amount of cuts / hedge trimming that is involved in a modern tarmac rally i doubt they will be on for long anyway!):p
Originally posted by max_torque
get some SPA ones
sorry but these look ridiculous :devil:
max ,did you see my post regarding the company making carbon dtm style ones?they do bonnets too;)
Originally posted by jason
max ,did you see my post regarding the company making carbon dtm style ones?they do bonnets too;)
Who were these people Jase, remind me, and what happened about carbon bonnets ? -
Cheers
rob
max_torque
28-05-2003, 10:36
Originally posted by Sim
sorry but these look ridiculous :devil:
i don't mind them, they aren't "lovely" to look at, but you aint gonna see them for long as i pass you!
speed first - style later for a competition car:p
Originally posted by max_torque
i don't mind them, they aren't "lovely" to look at, but you aint gonna see them for long as i pass you!
speed first - style later for a competition car:p
Exactly - I like the mirrors you put on your car - have you made the adapters out of carbon yourself ? If so could I get a set ?
Cheers
Rob
max_torque
28-05-2003, 13:09
yeah made adaptors by taking a moulding off the modified std mirror base (still gota do n/s one)
there's not a lot of cost of materials in them (probably £15 the pair) but theres a few hours work in each one. If i get a chance i'll make up a couple of pairs.
Max have you got any proper photos of your car? I'd be interested to see what it actually looks like.
My brother and I have been talking about going halfers on building a rally/track car for ages. If (when I get home) I can get him to give me with half of what my 16v is worth, then I would just get a new car (planning to anyway) and we could use my old one as the basis.
max_torque
28-05-2003, 14:05
here's a not very good pic of what it looks something like (few months back now)
Originally posted by max_torque
yeah made adaptors by taking a moulding off the modified std mirror base (still gota do n/s one)
there's not a lot of cost of materials in them (probably £15 the pair) but theres a few hours work in each one. If i get a chance i'll make up a couple of pairs.
Cool, that would be great, keep me posted.
Cheers
Rob
Originally posted by RobT
Who were these people Jase, remind me, and what happened about carbon bonnets ? -
Cheers
rob
http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17801
not that far away keith:p
Originally posted by jason
http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17801
not that far away keith:p
Cheers Dave
George
Hi
The guts of the nearside door came out Sat - total weight saving from this door 3.35Kg.
Hmm.....whats next I wonder.
Cheers
Rob
max_torque
04-06-2003, 11:26
Just weighed one of my doors, exactly as it came off the car with trim, window, speaker, mirror etc.
Weighed 35kg!
(explains why i was knackered carrying it 100 yards to my car!:p )
deffinately going down the lexan route now, want to get 10kg out each door at least.
Anyone got any experience with any firms who do lexan or polycarbonate window kits?
upturn the door, cut out the bottom & place a kevlar panel across it :)
going to start to paint up a door card tonight to enable me to make a mould too.
Dormouse
04-06-2003, 11:55
How much did that weight?
Dor.
Originally posted by max_torque
Just weighed one of my doors, exactly as it came off the car with trim, window, speaker, mirror etc.
Weighed 35kg!
(explains why i was knackered carrying it 100 yards to my car!:p )
deffinately going down the lexan route now, want to get 10kg out each door at least.
Anyone got any experience with any firms who do lexan or polycarbonate window kits?
Nope but seen an advert for them in back of motoring news. The chap who does my mapping for me preps a lot of rally cars (puma s1600, gpa escort + sierra cossies, evo's, a few mad Mk2 escorts, pug205's) and reckons its not really that much of a saving and a pain in the bum not being able to open the front windows - definately wouldnot recommend it for the fronts. Rears may save a bit but he reckons its not that much....
I have just checked material densities however (all g/cm3):
Pyrex glass - 2.23
Lead glass - 6.22
Plate glass - 2.40
Lexan (also called polycarbonate and makrolon) - 1.20
(I thought lexan was different to polycarb though - anyone know ?)
So it could be half as heavy for same thickness - could be bonded to window frames and then you also loose the weight of the window rubber.
Not easy with a beeza I would think though - rear quarters are compound curves.
Cheers
Rob
Originally posted by m0rk
upturn the door, cut out the bottom & place a kevlar panel across it :)
going to start to paint up a door card tonight to enable me to make a mould too.
Door card itself is made of compressed turkey droppings - weighs next to nowt so got to question if this is worth the effort - what does weigh is speakers and the whole speaker grill / door pocket assembly which can be removed from the door card by unscrewing from the back. Once this is gone, the card itself is pretty light.
Would look cool though - next you will be getting a chrome tailpipe :D
Ave it
Rob
MSA only requires 3mm lexan IIRC, so 'glass' is about 4-5mm I think maybe more.
it won't be as pretty with lexan, but it will be lighter (by at least 1/2)
M
Just found another figure for Makrolon - 1.585 g/cm3 (from Bayer website who make it so they should know)
If we say car glass is pyrex - 2.23g/cm3 and 3mm thick, a rear window will be approx 100 X 60cm, mass of rear window = 1800 x 2.23 = 4kg
Same size in makrolon = 2.85kg - difference 1.15kg
So you could loose 5kg absolute tops if you do both rear quarters and the hatch.
There is more weight to be found in other things first I would say without any cost involved - Makrolon is not cheap ! - the material costs would be around the £100 mark
http://www.thebbgroup.co.uk/protechplastics/makrolonlexanprices.htm
For comparison - all the sound proofing tar crap weighed in at almost 14kg and cost nothing but time....
Cheers
Rob
mark sheerin
04-06-2003, 12:49
How much weight do you intend to lose of yer belly Rob?:)
max_torque
04-06-2003, 12:49
Originally posted by RobT
There is more weight to be found in other things first I would say without any cost involved -
Rob
Agreed, but for me cost has long sinced stopped being a limiting factor, and i've pretty much done everything else i can! (except my carbon fibre roof skin, and tailgate!)
not having opening windows is a pain in a rally car like you say, and those sliders you can get look ok till you use them, then they just scratch up and become opaque.
I've got my old drivers side door that i'll chop up and weigh various bits to see where the best weight saving is.
Originally posted by mark sheerin
How much weight do you intend to lose of yer belly Rob?:)
Its not possible or safe to loose any more from that area - I nearly fell down a grid last night between the pub and the chippy
Ave it
Ralph
Max - I was talking to a chap last week about carbon panels and that there were none available off the shelf for the ibiza to my knowledge - he said that that was because most ibiza's in competition were in rallying and here you were not allowed carbon or fibreglass panels........is this true......thought your car was for rallying ?
Rob
you can - the old works f2 cars had kevlar wings
also quite a few cars on the club scene do as well
May depend on regs also
Mark
Dormouse
04-06-2003, 13:07
not having opening windows is a pain in a rally car like you say, and those sliders you can get look ok till you use them, then they just scratch up and become opaque.
Too right, specially for timekeepers! you ever tried to time and sign a roadbook through half a letterbox?...whilst it's snowing....at 5am.....in hafren forest....with no tea left....:D
Mind you that's not the best one, I had a guy in rallycar go off at me once for signing a roadbook on his roof....was worried about his paint....FFS :eek:
Dor.
max_torque
04-06-2003, 13:16
depends on which class you run in. For a homologated F2 car or GRp A & N then you will have to have "bodywork constructed from original material" (to homologated shapes, ie std for GrpA & N, Kit car arches for F2) This is why F2 SEAT's and WRC's had steel panels that were so expensive to produce for the limited numbers required.
my car falls into neither of these catorgories and is simply built to comply with the FIA technical and safety regulations. It is therefore eligable under "FIA" approved "non homologated" status for certain events, for example this weekends Abingdon stages. (where it would be class D, over 2000cc 2 wheel drive) (check the entry list for similar cars, like the RWD Corsa and Darian T9's etc)
max_torque
04-06-2003, 13:18
Originally posted by Dormouse
I had a guy in rallycar go off at me once for signing a roadbook on his roof....was worried about his paint....FFS :eek:
Dor.
:confused: what a muppet, did you point out that driving at 100mph on gravel through a forest might also be bad for his paint, and perhaps he show slow down to protect it!
max_torque
04-06-2003, 13:25
once was sat 2nd in line at start of a stage, and when the cossie ahead was just about to launch, it's side exit exhaust neatly deposited the entire silencers red hot wadding contents onto the start officals trousers as the driver dumped the clutch. Poor guy took several seconds to realise that his trousers were on fire! My nav and i were laughing so hard we practically missed the first few corners!:D
Dormouse
04-06-2003, 13:26
I gave him the stock answer...
You want a time or not?
Dor.
mark sheerin
04-06-2003, 14:10
Originally posted by max_torque
once was sat 2nd in line at start of a stage, and when the cossie ahead was just about to launch, it's side exit exhaust neatly deposited the entire silencers red hot wadding contents onto the start officals trousers as the driver dumped the clutch. Poor guy took several seconds to realise that his trousers were on fire! My nav and i were laughing so hard we practically missed the first few corners!:D
Did he not get pulled or was it not a Forest stage..?
max_torque
04-06-2003, 14:20
Was a single venue tarmac event, so he did one stage then was asked to replace silencer in service due to noise (and probably to buy the marshall a new pair of trousers)