View Full Version : BIG TURBO KIT Discussion - the SCN chapter
Been getting alot of PM's about BT kits and I would like to address them as best as I can in here in one place.
ATP Eliminator kits can also be discussed here as they are right down the road from 034 Motorsport.
(p.s. Mark can I get an increase on these pm's,I have been emptying my box daily)
p.s.s....some engine ****:
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/issamabed/DSC_0006.jpg
Alot of people are looking for around the 300bhp mark, but the big stumbling block is getting the right turbo, manifold and downpipe so it all fits around the 6-speed box for reasonable money, finding the right manifold so the turbo sits high enough for a decent inlet, etc. I've been asking ATP for AGES about the GT28R Eliminator which is fast spooling, ball-bearing and rated to 310bhp ... perfect turbo but it never seems to be coming out???
The bigger Eliminators sit too low which cause the turbo entry to sit right on the gearbox with the linkage cables right in front of them, so it makes a straight 3" inlet impossible.
A top mount mani with a downpipe that clears a mk2 rear mount and doesnt hit the brake servo please. :D
The Backdraft Motorsport GT28RS kit for the Mk1 Leon looks great but it's very expensive at £3930 for the kit ($8,000 in your money!), APR stage 3+ makes great power but is even worse at £5281 ($10,555!!!).
APR stage 3+ kit in the US is $4999 which is only £2501 in our money, so in the UK we're paying twice the price of the kit in the US - that's just criminal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
IbizaAlex
20-07-2008, 12:20
The Backdraft Motorsport GT28RS kit for the Mk1 Leon looks great but it's very expensive at £3930 for the kit ($8,000 in your money!), APR stage 3+ makes great power but is even worse at £5281 ($10,555!!!).
APR stage 3+ kit in the US is $4999 which is only £2501 in our money, so in the UK we're paying twice the price of the kit in the US - that's just criminal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The American APR kit is for LHD models me thinks???
If we (Backdraft) could do a cheaper kit then we would, but materials aint as cheap as people think. Its also a fully developed kit in the UK so if there are ever any issues then we are here to help and fix.
I would be very interested to see another top mounted kit with a downpipe that fits quattros perfectly with all bits needed for install for cheaper.
Alex
Well you couldn't help or fix mine as I'm 400 miles away in Scotland? Your base kit at £1995 (is it?) looks great value though and your manifold is the best RHD I've seen, even APR couldn't be bothered to make a cast RHD manifold, so I believe APR Australia made a tubular one, no doubt it makes good numbers though as Ianb's made 340bhp.
If I had £4k to spare I'd have your kit - but add on fueling, fitting, mapping, etc. and you're looking at circa £6k - for in my case a 50bhp gain, hardly value for money!
If the APR Stage 3+ kit was £2500, same as it is in the USA they'd sell millions of them over here, they must be making a profit on them too.
nogutsnoglory
20-07-2008, 17:56
I'm really interested in more power, around the 300 mark would be good for me but its all about money and driveability, the gt28r is what i'm interested in but love my k03s for spool and think it might not be as fun as i imagine having an eliminator. I've also got revo stage 2 so would have to spend another £600 getting it custom mapped.
So the only issue is a manifold?
Pretty much yes, the Audi S3/TT manifold is better because the turbo sits higher, above the gear shift linkages and brackets, the ATP and stock K03S manifold has the turbo inlet pointing straight into them, plus a hard water pipe is right in the way too - great design eh!
..............The bigger Eliminators sit too low which cause the turbo entry to sit right on the gearbox with the linkage cables right in front of them, so it makes a straight 3" inlet impossible.
:D Not impossible, Rob. Mine's living proof.
Very difficult though...........
True yes, but there MUST be better ways, lol!
True yes, but there MUST be better ways, lol!
Yes Rob, non-eliminator.
(or is that eliminator-eliminator?) :D
jonathanp
24-07-2008, 10:53
Anybody interested in hybrid k04's? JBS reckon you could get close to 340bhp with a k04 + manifold
Crazy money for a k04. Thanks, but no thanks.
nogutsnoglory
24-07-2008, 11:48
Crazy money for a k04. Thanks, but no thanks.
ditto
jonathanp
24-07-2008, 12:33
why crazy money? £1150+ vat for turbo or less if you go exchange and around £500 for the manifold
then you just need mapping
say you are already running stage 2 and have 3" DP etc and FMIC I reckon you're looking at £2500 + vat tops for the turbo and manifold fitted and getting it mapped
£2500 + vat seems a good price to get between 320 - 340bhp and being a k04 it'll be less laggy than other turbos so more driveable
1500 quid for a turbo with a 50p sized exhaust port.
Fine for a k04 turbo'd car, but for k03 car you'd have to buy the manifold, custom DP or pro-imports up pipe and for all that you could have a 'proper' turbo. And i very much doubt the k04 will hold its power up the rev range, the peak power will be down the rev range and tailing off.
Personally i'd want something smoother with more power up the rev range rather than something like the k0x turbos which dump a load of torque lower down the rev range then run out of puff further up.
Considering you can buy a brand new Garrett GT28RS off the shelf in the UK for £622.83 + VAT then yeah, paying £1500 for a reworked K04 is daylight robbery.
The American APR kit is for LHD models me thinks???
If we (Backdraft) could do a cheaper kit then we would, but materials aint as cheap as people think. Its also a fully developed kit in the UK so if there are ever any issues then we are here to help and fix.
I would be very interested to see another top mounted kit with a downpipe that fits quattros perfectly with all bits needed for install for cheaper.
Alex
Understood ... but APR must be selling 340bhp Stage 3+ kits for £2500 and making a good profit on them. UK gets ripped off big time as per usual.
Don't get me wrong, your kit looks great, but it's ALOT of money for fairly modest gains. In DPJ's thread didn't a Backdraft kit only make the same as his GTRS Eliminator car, around 305bhp .... where was the 325bhp?
Apparently rob the revo settings were pretty low on the backdraft kit.
Apparently rob the revo settings were pretty low on the backdraft kit.
I've been told subsequently that Jonah's boost was turned down.
I must admit, If I was going to change anything, I'd be going for a GT28RS (or bigger) mounted a la Backdraft.
This might be a stupid question, but are the exhaust side of a turbo in the same position no matter the type? Like a 3071 would bolt up to a 28rs downpipe? All with the same flange, T3. Or are they different?
Just wondering say if you run a backdraft or similar 28RS kit, then want to go bigger will it fit?
jamiebennett81
24-07-2008, 15:49
Considering you can buy a brand new Garrett GT28RS off the shelf in the UK for £622.83 + VAT then yeah, paying £1500 for a reworked K04 is daylight robbery.
in that sense yes.....
but I think you would be pretty foolish to buy a brand new Hybrid K04
wouldn't it be cheaper to buy a 2nd hand one for a few hundred quid and then get some hybrid treatment done
it would then work out the same cost as the new GT28RS and would bolt straight on
jonathanp
24-07-2008, 16:25
Don't call me foolish :p
I actually ordered the K04 and manifold back in November/December last year. Reason being I wanted a bit more power but didn't want to go too high and didn't want to have to worry about internals, also I wanted to try and keep the car as responsive as possible. I know something like the GT28's and eliminators might give me a bit more power but I imagine the K04 will probably make similar torque up to 1k sooner
Maybe but the torque will fall off way quicker on a K04, you want it to hold power not drop off like a Lemming off a cliff! Also a ball-bearing turbo will be much more responsive too.
Dont go thinking a k04 wont do your internals. Throwing a rod isnt all about power level ts also to do with boost. To get that kind of power from a k04 even a hybrid its going to be wrking its nuts right off and wouldnt surprise me if it broken/bent a rod in the process.
In fact with the amount of low down torque a k0x produces i'd be more worried about banana'ing a road than with some that you could have a linear power curve.
Ok so where do I come in? :P
wild willy
24-07-2008, 19:35
Ok so where do I come in? :P
What would you recommend in the way of workable solutions.
A custom tubular manifold with a T3 flange.That leaves ALOT of the guessing work out of the way....
No downtime waiting for ATP eliminator turbo kits that are NEVER in stock when you need them to be.
No over priced kits
No turbo flanges that make upgrading difficult.
A custom tubular manifold with a T3 flange.That leaves ALOT of the guessing work out of the way....
No downtime waiting for ATP eliminator turbo kits that are NEVER in stock when you need them to be.
No over priced kits
No turbo flanges that make upgrading difficult.
Sounds good to me.
wild willy
25-07-2008, 08:58
A custom tubular manifold with a T3 flange.That leaves ALOT of the guessing work out of the way....
No downtime waiting for ATP eliminator turbo kits that are NEVER in stock when you need them to be.
No over priced kits
No turbo flanges that make upgrading difficult.
Nice,
What about compatible intake pipes, down pipes and possible mapping solutions.
I wouldnt worry about intake pipes if its top mounted, justa few silicone elbows, couplers etc.. will do it fine, not as if it has to come up from far down the back of the engine.
Would a T3 flange allow an off-the-shelf GT28RS to bolt straight onto it? If so, that would be great. The only other question is of a suitable downpipe for RHD.
TIG-ART do a T3 manifold for RHD cars but it's 1,199 Euros which is £946 + shipping!
http://www.tig-art.com/inc/sdetail/558
I'm sick of waiting for the GT28R Eliminator, plus it is really a poor solution that creates its own problems rather than being an easy bolt on kit.
You can get a GT28RS in a T3 flange if you wanted with either a 0.48 A/R or 0.63 A/R
As for Mapping...thats why I am looking into importing one of these babies so that I can get a tune ready to go.Basically buy up a bunch of used GOOD ecu's so that I can ship them over with the kits.
I am working on the turbo manifold but I need help from some of you as I dont have a RHD car readily available (only in Barbados....my Skoda)
Plus on a mk3 Ibiza you have a mk2 golf rear mount to deal with. Doesnt help the cause really.
Plus on a mk3 Ibiza you have a mk2 golf rear mount to deal with. Doesnt help the cause really.
Thats not really an issue.Just means I will have to do a bottom mount turbo with the downpipe looping over the rear mount.
ibizacupra
25-07-2008, 20:24
Thats not really an issue.Just means I will have to do a bottom mount turbo with the downpipe looping over the rear mount.
...missing the steering rack and brake master cylinder & servo
IbizaAlex
25-07-2008, 21:58
Thats not really an issue.Just means I will have to do a bottom mount turbo with the downpipe looping over the rear mount.
Top mount would be easier than bottom mount.
nogutsnoglory
26-07-2008, 01:29
Would a T3 flange allow an off-the-shelf GT28RS to bolt straight onto it? If so, that would be great. The only other question is of a suitable downpipe for RHD.
TIG-ART do a T3 manifold for RHD cars but it's 1,199 Euros which is £946 + shipping!
http://www.tig-art.com/inc/sdetail/558
I'm sick of waiting for the GT28R Eliminator, plus it is really a poor solution that creates its own problems rather than being an easy bolt on kit.
Rob what do you mean waiting for the GT28R? i thought it was available now, its a gt2560r but with modified turbine housing?
Dont worry about the brake servo...got something cooking for that;)
Rob what do you mean waiting for the GT28R? i thought it was available now, its a gt2560r but with modified turbine housing?
Ha...Try getting one from ATP.Before Waterfest they had 2 in stock now they are back ordered for 2 months...that usually means dont hold your breath.
The reason so many people are looking for tubular manifolds + T3 turbo's is because by the time you pay the $1800+US for the eliminator kit...2 months go by...then 4 months....then 6 months and finally your without a turbo (or car) to the point where $3000US looks alot nicer.
Couls something the Pro Imports K04-023 downpipe adapter pipe not be used between the GT28RS and a K03/S type downpipe, would save having to buy another downpipe and CAT, plus many people already have aftermarket downpipes?
(shown bottom-right of this pic):
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r145/01gtiaww/000_0350.jpg
Seen plenty of pipes like this on other turbo cars.
Couls something the Pro Imports K04-023 downpipe adapter pipe not be used between the GT28RS and a K03/S type downpipe, would save having to buy another downpipe and CAT, plus many people already have aftermarket downpipes?
(shown bottom-right of this pic):
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r145/01gtiaww/000_0350.jpg
Seen plenty of pipes like this on other turbo cars.
It's a bit of a half-ar$ed solution though. Another joint to leak and it limits the position of the turbo. If people are going BT, they should be upgrading to a 3" dp anyway with bosses for egt sensor etc. There can only be a small proportion that have a 3" dp now...........
It's a bit of a half-ar$sed solution though. Another joint to leak and it limits the position of the turbo. If people are going BT, they should be upgrading to a 3" dp anyway with bosses for egt sensor etc. There can only be a small proportion that have a 3" dp now...........
Thats pretty much it right there....The time taken to just weld/join a 3" downpipe will be a hell of alot cheaper than having to make and position the turbocharger so that the downpipe can sit in the stock position.
nogutsnoglory
26-07-2008, 17:59
This company seems to have them in stock?
they have one of them on ebay, I emailed them not so long ago and they said £1599 for:
Turbo
ATP High flow stock location manifold
3" ATP Intake Kit incl. Filter
Walbro 255lh High Flow Inline Fuel Pump
http://www.gt3turbo.com/Merchant/product.php?productid=760&cat=0&page=1
I've emailed them about 10 times in the last 2 months ........ not one single reply!!!!!!!!
I've registered with their site and asked again. If they do have the GT28R then I'll go for one - ball-bearing turbo rated to 310bhp with very fast spool up .... sounds good to me, plus it's about £400 cheaper than a JBS04!
Thats pretty much it right there....The time taken to just weld/join a 3" downpipe will be a hell of alot cheaper than having to make and position the turbocharger so that the downpipe can sit in the stock position.
No use if you have nobody to weld and fabricate for you though, for many it has to be straight bolt on.
No use if you have nobody to weld and fabricate for you though, for many it has to be straight bolt on.
That was always my thinking, Rob. But the cost of getting the car trailered/transported to a specialist for exhaust fabbing isn't huge.
Expensive enough, plus nothing like that around here I doubt!
Anyway ... I reckon I have 3 choices, depending on stock availability. My choices are:
1. New GT28R Elim. Ball-bearing, water-cooled turbo rated to 310bhp.
2. JBS04 turbo. VERY expensive (unless I find a cheap K03/S to p/x) for just a turbo but offers around the 300 mark. Water cooled too.
3. CR Turbos repair and rework my GT2X, should take it up to around the 300 mark too.
First 2 are roughly the same cost at around the £1k mark if I can p/x a turbo, 3rd is by far the cheapest at only around £300.
I can't afford to go for a big turbo kit like the Backdraft, £5k+ is just WAY out of my league.
nogutsnoglory
26-07-2008, 21:39
strange, they were very quick responding to me vie email, i spoke to a guy called myles.
Ive also been tempted by the gt28r, big turbos like backdraft or apr are way out of my price league too.
nogutsnoglory
26-07-2008, 21:43
actually scrap that, i was re-reading the exhange of emails and they did mention it was on a back order :( but also that it would only take 2 weeks after ordering which i dont believe..
Bit bad of them to advertise something on ebay that wouldnt arrive for a while...
Item number: 130093183767
Yeah try 6 weeks +! The last response I got from ATP regarding the GT28R Elim was:
"they're on backorder with NO KNOWN DATE for arrival."
Great company eh.
nogutsnoglory
26-07-2008, 22:41
do you know of anyone or read about anyone with a gt28r elim fitted? ive searched quite hard but not come up with much at all
Don't know if they're ever been out yet.
wild willy
26-07-2008, 23:00
A few years ago ATP were to bring out an uprated manifold for the 225 Engine (k04-02) i emailed them several times. Each time they advised me that it would be released soon. Years later still no manifold. Probably the biggest bunch of bullshitters i've ever had the misfortune of listening to.:fool:
nogutsnoglory
26-07-2008, 23:03
Dont worry about the brake servo...got something cooking for that;)
Ha...Try getting one from ATP.Before Waterfest they had 2 in stock now they are back ordered for 2 months...that usually means dont hold your breath.
The reason so many people are looking for tubular manifolds + T3 turbo's is because by the time you pay the $1800+US for the eliminator kit...2 months go by...then 4 months....then 6 months and finally your without a turbo (or car) to the point where $3000US looks alot nicer.
So what you're saying is, buy eliminators from you and you'll go to atp and poke them with sharp sticks until they deliver :D
So what you're saying is, buy eliminators from you and you'll go to atp and poke them with sharp sticks until they deliver :D
You can if you want as ATP is not too far from 034 Motorsport so its simply a drive up the road and back BUT the eliminator kits are HARDLY EVER in stock.
Besides look @ the economics of it.What you spend in an eliminator kit can be put towards a PROPER turbo kit.
IbizaAlex
27-07-2008, 12:10
Besides look @ the economics of it.What you spend in an eliminator kit can be put towards a PROPER turbo kit.
Agreed. Save your money and go all the way...;)
nogutsnoglory
27-07-2008, 14:33
It could be put towards it, but i cant justify spending what my car is worth on a turbo kit, plus there are then things like uprated clutches, lsd, internals, and im looking for a reliable, reasonably quick spooling 300bhp, i figure if i get bored of that its time to move on.
By the time ive saved up 2k for an eliminator atp *might* have them in stock :lol:
It could be put towards it, but i cant justify spending what my car is worth on a turbo kit, plus there are then things like uprated clutches, lsd, internals, and im looking for a reliable, reasonably quick spooling 300bhp, i figure if i get bored of that its time to move on.
By the time ive saved up 2k for an eliminator atp *might* have them in stock :lol:
Well I am going to buy them and start stocking them (GT2871R only) as soon as they become available.Sadly that sucks for the other vendors that dont have ATP next door...:p
Id still prefer to build a turbo kit from scratch.
Isn't the GT2871R Eliminator the laggiest of all the Eliminators?
Pity your RHD manifold isn't available right now, if anyone had a GT28R Eliminator in stock right now I'd have it, I've asked a few places including ones in the USA ... no reponse from anyone yet!
Isn't the GT2871R Eliminator the laggiest of all the Eliminators?
Pity your RHD manifold isn't available right now, if anyone had a GT28R Eliminator in stock right now I'd have it, I've asked a few places including ones in the USA ... no reponse from anyone yet!
No one in the USA has them in stock because no one "stocks" ATP products.Anyone that tells you they stock ATP products is a fibber....
ATP right now is OUT OF STOCK on all Transverse kits.They are still machining up the turbine housings and when they DO have them in stock...they are sent out to complete the web orders.Its a viscious cycle.
As for GT2871R.I dont even consider a GT3071R laggy....:shrug:
GT3071R NOT laggy!!! Im running an IHI and coming from a K03s its a laggy monster so id hate to go bigger.
i wouldnt say my gt3071r was laggy by any means.
look at the cossie boys
I've been told subsequently that Jonah's boost was turned down.
I must admit, If I was going to change anything, I'd be going for a GT28RS (or bigger) mounted a la Backdraft.
Yep and conservative timing as well...
I think a number of people call a turbo laggy when they actual mean it's slow to spool.
GT3071R NOT laggy!!! Im running an IHI and coming from a K03s its a laggy monster so id hate to go bigger.
Try upping that displacement ;)
Try upping that displacement ;)
Have toyed with that idea.
ibizacupra
29-07-2008, 16:28
I think a number of people call a turbo laggy when they actual mean it's slow to spool.
yep... and transient response also
slow to spool AND slow transient response sux
slow to spool and fast transient response is much nicer to live with
jonathanp
29-07-2008, 19:25
what that then? lol
is transient response where you feel the extra torque come in as it spools?
Torque is in the bottom end ;)
jonathanp
29-07-2008, 22:23
not sure what you mean by that, lol
if you want to increase torque the easiest way (besides upgrading your turbo) is by upping displacement.Being in europe you guys got SO MANY options to choose from.
ibizacupra
30-07-2008, 08:30
what that then? lol
is transient response where you feel the extra torque come in as it spools?
too aspects... initial spool... eg: plant ya foot and wait...
transient is on-off-on throttle and how long it takes to respool eg: between gears, on and off throttle etc
richybigman
30-07-2008, 10:25
Ok, so what is upping displacement?
As in going from 1.8 to 2.0
My current predicament is exactly the problem in the UK - there is NOTHING available for me right now. The Elims are nowhere, the JBS04 is too expensive unless I find an old turbo to p/x, a full big turbo kit is way too expensive.
My only realistic options are to have the GT2X rebuilt and be stuck with ATP stuff, stick a K03S on and call it a day or stick £3k on a credit card and buy the Backdraft turbo stuff and pay it off over time.
Turbo Dynamics have a couple of options on the original fitment front,can't remember prices now.
Ye you guys really get the stiff in the UK with respect to pricing (wow)!
I reckon if you can get a BT kit, mani, downpipe, inlet and turbo with oil/coolant feeds for £2k delivered you'd own th market.
I reckon if you can get a BT kit, mani, downpipe, inlet and turbo with oil/coolant feeds for £2k delivered you'd own th market.
Most defiinatelty! As long as it was reliable!
Ye you guys really get the stiff in the UK with respect to pricing (wow)!
YEP - would you pay $10,000 for an APR stage 3+ kit!!!!!!!!!
robdon....go backdraft and pay it off.
at least you have a good set up.
more future options also
do it once and all that
Very much on my mind m8 - very much, everything else looks half-ar5ed compared to the Backdraft kit. The more I battle to get the ATP manifold off the more I HATE it!
I reckon if you can get a BT kit, mani, downpipe, inlet and turbo with oil/coolant feeds for £2k delivered you'd own th market.
Thats roughly $4000US?
I can most certainly do that....
Who wants the prototype?:D
Ricardo_Smooth
30-07-2008, 21:23
Thats roughly $4000US?
Who wants the prototype?:D
at cost price? you know as its a prototype :D
Thats roughly $4000US?
I can most certainly do that....
Who wants the prototype?:D
All depends what's on offer! :D
Very much on my mind m8 - very much, everything else looks half-ar5ed compared to the Backdraft kit. The more I battle to get the ATP manifold off the more I HATE it!
You won't be disappointed - but you will soon want more power :whistle:
wild willy
30-07-2008, 22:44
Thats roughly $4000US?
I can most certainly do that....
Who wants the prototype?:D
That must include mapping though....:whistle:
You know you'd prefer a mk3 as a UK demo car. ;) lol.
wild willy
30-07-2008, 22:49
Very much on my mind m8 - very much, everything else looks half-ar5ed compared to the Backdraft kit. The more I battle to get the ATP manifold off the more I HATE it!
It really does look the best kit on the market. You could fit it in a weekend Rob. The VAT bumps the cost up :(. Stage 3 mapping is so fecking expensive. I wish i was an existing Revo customer. Have a word with P-torque to see how much they would rustle a map up for.
Or can INA sort out a super duper deal.
I wouldnt use Revo software if it was free.... (BASED ON PERSONAL EXPERIENCE).
The following software companies get a thumbs up from me:
* APR
* Unitronic
* Eurodyne i.e. "Chirs Tapp"
I am looking into getting a MKIII Ibiza ECU state side but my contact is being scarce with the contact.Anyone got one kicking around that I can buy?
wild willy
30-07-2008, 23:24
INA, you best suit up in your kevlar as there will probably be some incoming very soon.;). Revo seem to be popular for the big turbos over here as it probably the most tested and they will flash your ecu via the post so you don't have to get your car trailered to the tuner etc. Many of the guys have used their stage one maps and have bought the various switching devices.
Star write the custom maps for my car, I wouldn't use REVO, APR, etc., any time I change any hardware Jim just adjusts the map to suit, no need to re-write it every time.
INA, you best suit up in your kevlar as there will probably be some incoming very soon.;). Revo seem to be popular for the big turbos over here as it probably the most tested and they will flash your ecu via the post so you don't have to get your car trailered to the tuner etc. Many of the guys have used their stage one maps and have bought the various switching devices.
I am well aware at how popular Revo is over in the UK.I ran Revo for about a year in my GTI and had nothing but endless problems.
The only reason why Revo is popular is because you guys have not given the competition a chance.
Eurodyne's software is on 1 of the fastest VW's in the world right now.Thats right...the guy is using the stock ME-7 as his own personal standalone.
So...who has an ecu to sell?:D
ive a spare but what are you going to pay?
HoocH
ibizacupra
31-07-2008, 08:49
Custom Code is used on many BT cars on their stage 3
not everything is REVO as its not custom when it comes to stage 3 stuff.
not everything is REVO as its not custom when it comes to stage 3 stuff.
And not everyone's Custom Stage3 is all that custom either.... but at least Revo Stage 3 you are empowered to adjust what you can
ibizacupra
31-07-2008, 22:53
And not everyone's Custom Stage3 is all that custom either.... but at least Revo Stage 3 you are empowered to adjust what you can
I can only speak from the several CC3 I have done.
REVO's low coverage of ecu's with stage 3 is the big difference m0rk.
It would be nice to have more choice personally. I would welcome it.
ive a spare but what are you going to pay?
HoocH
PM me a price
pm me an offer.
im happy to keep it as a spare so make it good :D
No but you have to look at the cost, it will cost me £175 to upgrade to revo stage 3 vs. ~£1k at least elsewhere, no brainer for me really.
No but you have to look at the cost, it will cost me £175 to upgrade to revo stage 3 vs. ~£1k at least elsewhere, no brainer for me really.
Is Revo Stage III in the UK the same as what we are offered in the US?
i.e. "revo BT software"?
Is Revo Stage III in the UK the same as what we are offered in the US?
i.e. "revo BT software"?
Yes, I believe so.
I would love to see logs of 1 of these vehicles.Anyone up for the challenge?
I would love to see logs of 1 of these vehicles.Anyone up for the challenge?
There are logs of my GTRS Eliminator / Revo Stage 3 on here. Do you want a link?
email them to me : iabed[at]inaengineering.com
Would be very much appreciated.
Thanks!
Lol @ that size of that email with the amount of logs dave has done.
Think he is trying to break my server lads
I am well aware at how popular Revo is over in the UK.I ran Revo for about a year in my GTI and had nothing but endless problems.
The only reason why Revo is popular is because you guys have not given the competition a chance.
What did you run with it?
I think all the options are well used, and well talked about.
Apart from APR, that is. You can't get APR code outside of a kit and since the APR kit is very expensive (very good quality, but expensive) not many people have the code.
APR is big in the USA because a stage 3+ kit is only £2500 over there and the equivalent of around $10,000 over here - lol!
I can't wait to see what Ina comes up with for a big turbo kit for the UK - could be the one that breaks into the middle ground where nothing exists and ATP failed.
Problem is rob, that even if INA get a kit ex works US for £2000, they will have to add £100-200 for shipping, £100 duty and admin fees, £400 vat.
So £2700. You then need injectors £200, Remap £500. Fitting £500.
I can see how the APR kit gets to £5k very easily once imported to the UK.
True yes, but when you look at UK prices for manifolds at £400, turbos for £800, downpipe for £300 etc. that's only £1500 - so it MUST be possible to get a half-decent kit together for around £2-2.5k.
The Backdraft kit is still over £5k all in and that's without importing anything!
Rob
Nearly a grand of the backdraft kits go straight to mr brown courtesy of VAT.
Buy a manifold from BD or Jabba. Garret turbo from the US, downpipe custom from any exhaust manufacturer, oil and water lines from any hydraulic hose specialist, injectors, maf, and you're there. I reckon I could do it for 1500, but it would involve some of my time, and some effort.
What did you run with it?
I think all the options are well used, and well talked about.
Apart from APR, that is. You can't get APR code outside of a kit and since the APR kit is very expensive (very good quality, but expensive) not many people have the code.
I ran a K04 with it.This was BEFORE eliminator or ATP GT2871R kits....APR's kit was the only BT on the market.Vehicle ran like ass....complained to Revo.Nothing was done...this was the same song for months.Finally I said f-it and went a different route.
the reason APR's kit is so successful is due to the simple fact that they DO NOT split the kit up.It stays the way it is for a reason.Deviate from the kit and you will run into issues.
Problem is rob, that even if INA get a kit ex works US for £2000, they will have to add £100-200 for shipping, £100 duty and admin fees, £400 vat.
So £2700. You then need injectors £200, Remap £500. Fitting £500.
I can see how the APR kit gets to £5k very easily once imported to the UK.
HA! Its not anywhere near that much.A remap is roughly 300GBP...and to ship an entire turbo kit across the pond comes in @ roughly 75GBP give or take.
Not trying to be the "cheap" kit on the market but @ the same time you guys pay some insane prices regardless of VAT etc.
wild willy
02-08-2008, 00:18
HA! Its not anywhere near that much.A remap is roughly 300GBP...and to ship an entire turbo kit across the pond comes in @ roughly 75GBP give or take.
Not trying to be the "cheap" kit on the market but @ the same time you guys pay some insane prices regardless of VAT etc.
Lets see it then, step up to the plate my friend....;)
Lets see it then, step up to the plate my friend....;)
Dont test me :cartman:
nogutsnoglory
02-08-2008, 10:22
Not trying to be the "cheap" kit on the market but @ the same time you guys pay some insane prices regardless of VAT etc.
:clap:
US Average wage $38,651.41 ~ £19,000
UK Average wage £25,896.00
It's plain and simple... we earn more - thus we can afford more.
Importing products is really not cheap assuming you do it properly. business overheads in the UK are extreme & even the minimum wage isn't far off 60% of the US average @ £5.52/hr vs $6.55
By all means, accept that we pay more, but we get more for our taxes (you didn't see Gloucestershire sit under water with no rescue services for a week did you?)
Equally, for UK/RHD developed kits the economies of scale come into effect. I reckon up until last year I could count the number of BT SEAT's on the fingers of both hands.
LOL
well considering I live in Canada I would say we live pretty nice here.No under water scenarios though.... :D
So tubular or cast?
LOL
well considering I live in Canada ....
For some strange reason, I thought you were based in Barbados. :shrug:
LOL
So tubular or cast?
Either as long as you can get to the nuts. lol.
wild willy
03-08-2008, 10:35
LOL
well considering I live in Canada I would say we live pretty nice here.No under water scenarios though.... :D
So tubular or cast?
Whats your opinion with regards cost, strength, ease of fitment and performance gains.
Backdraft cast manifold looks the best, tubular is good providing it's well made and doesn't crack - sending a manifold back to Canada would be expensive!
Piper are supposed to be looking at making manifolds here in the UK - I sent them K03 150/180 and K04 210/225 manifolds ages ago to look at. Reminds me, must get the K04 one back!
Mork, good points but we still get ripped off big time on the price of just about everything in the UK, mostly thanks to our gloriously retarded and greedy government who tax everything to the hilt.
For some strange reason, I thought you were based in Barbados. :shrug:
No,
Raised there but I am based on the east coast of Canada.I handle most if not all of 034's tech problems,etc on all online forums. (audizine,vortex,4T,audiworld,etc... probably seen me post as INA/wizard-of-od or Issam@034
Whats your opinion with regards cost, strength, ease of fitment and performance gains.
Cost of tubular manifolds ranges from 650US to 1100US for a 4 cylinder depending on what machining practices are used on the flanges or what metal is used on the runners.
For e.g. the 034 manifolds are made with CNC machined flanges where as the full-race manifolds are made with laser cut.
As for strength and longitivity....cast will ALWAYS out do tubular in that area.Cant really beat those 5mm thick walls.If your looking for 300-375hp then I see no reason really for you to go tubular if you are not prepared to make the sacrifice in knowing that 1 day you will have to pull it off to repair some cracks.
wild willy
03-08-2008, 16:07
Maintenance free mani for me, with no risk of cracking.
Less talk more action. lol. ;)
ibizacupra
03-08-2008, 18:49
cast ones crack too... just like Oe ones do.
there is'nt a crack proof manifold which can be subjected to infinate temperatures or cycles.. poor fitment, weak engine mounts etc...
a well made tubular can outlast a cast one in crack terms in my own experience thus far
cast ones crack too... just like Oe ones do.
there is'nt a crack proof manifold which can be subjected to infinate temperatures or cycles.. poor fitment, weak engine mounts etc...
a well made tubular can outlast a cast one in crack terms in my own experience thus far
Bill I used an SPA 8V manifold for YEARS and not once a single crack.Depends on the quality of the cast really.
FWIW I have NEVER EVER EVER seen an APR turbo manifold crack.
ibizacupra
04-08-2008, 08:31
inconel on APR one? (if I remember correctly) - good material
its a brave man who sells a manifold when someone else can subject it to silly EGT's, not fit braces where they should be some, not fit suitable engine mounts so downpipes get wrenched on etc.. That was my main point.
SPA do have a good rep from what I have come across. (Brasil made?)
Of course the UK APR stage 3+ manifold is not cast, it's tubular because APR USA couldn't be bothered to make a RHD one, so APR in Australia did!
For a while now I've been developing my car for doing track days next year. I've been looking every where for a decent turbo kit ATP, APR, PAGPARTS.... eventually I spoke to Star Performance (who I ask for advice though I’ve never meet him in person...) and he suggested Backdraft motorsports.
2 weeks ago I drove up to Backdraft Motorsports in Milton keynes and placed an order for the GT2860RS 350bhp kit. The kit is of superb quality and easy to install.
Rob, I'd suggest just saving up and going for this kit. If I'm not wrong you've already got a FMIC intercooler and a Walbro 225 fuel pump right?
All you need for the 300-325 BHP kit is a set of injectors..
http://www.backdraftmotorsport.com/performance-upgrades/325-bhp-gt2860rs-turbo-kit-for-225/210bhp-format-1.8t-audi-tt-s3-and-leon-cupra-r.html
Ye they are brazil made with a 1 year warranty.And EVEN if they crack after a year they (SPA) will STILL replace it :D
Issam, if you're just up the road from ATP, then perhaps you could find out more about the imminent Eliminator 2? All I know is that it's all new with new turbos and new manifolds (which put the turbo in a better, higher position for a decent inlet).
For a while now I've been developing my car for doing track days next year. I've been looking every where for a decent turbo kit ATP, APR, PAGPARTS.... eventually I spoke to Star Performance (who I ask for advice though I’ve never meet him in person...) and he suggested Backdraft motorsports.
2 weeks ago I drove up to Backdraft Motorsports in Milton keynes and placed an order for the GT2860RS 350bhp kit. The kit is of superb quality and easy to install.
Rob, I'd suggest just saving up and going for this kit. If I'm not wrong you've already got a FMIC intercooler and a Walbro 225 fuel pump right?
All you need for the 300-325 BHP kit is a set of injectors..
http://www.backdraftmotorsport.com/performance-upgrades/325-bhp-gt2860rs-turbo-kit-for-225/210bhp-format-1.8t-audi-tt-s3-and-leon-cupra-r.html
Yep, but 'all' I need from Backdraft comes to £3k and that's plus mapping, so nearer £4k.
A mid-level solution is needed and ATP came so close but ultimately failed because of keeping the turbo in the stock location, bad move.
A GT28RS is around £800, manifold around £500, even a Pro Imports style exhaust up-pipe between the turbo and DP must be do-able, around £150. That's only around £1500. Stuff like injectors etc. can be bought anywhere and don't need to be part of a kit. Even if a new DP and CAT was needed, would still be under £2k.
Whoever comes up with this sort of budget mid-level mini kit would surely sell tons of them.
Issam, if you're just up the road from ATP, then perhaps you could find out more about the imminent Eliminator 2? All I know is that it's all new with new turbos and new manifolds (which put the turbo in a better, higher position for a decent inlet).
The issue with ATP is this,they can come out with 10 different eliminator kits and they will always be out of stock....
I will ask a question for you but I am sure the answer will be "3 months time"
nogutsnoglory
10-08-2008, 20:13
something like this would be ideal off the shelve for ibizas/leons
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/VW-3-Downpipe-MKIV-Transverse-1-8T-Turbo-3-GT28R-25_W0QQitemZ380044589923QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item380044589923&_trkparms=39%3A1%7C65%3A1&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245.l1318
then you can go gt28rs or a real gt28r like this http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Garrett-GT28R-Turbo-GT-28R-Turbocharger-GT2560R-T25-T28_W0QQitemZ190131852383QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item190131852383&_trkparms=39%3A1%7C65%3A1&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245.l1318
Indeed, there are plenty of options it seems, just need someone to get some stuff together and make sure it fits! Other than Backdraft, no tuner in the UK seems to care or be bothered, which has been the case for a long time.
Check the Kinetic kit, now thats a proper eliminator kit. Top mount T3 cats mani with external wg, which bolts up to your standard DP.
Shame theres no way its gonna get past our brake servo, i did see someone with a mk2 golf try and fit it and had all sorts of problems gettin past the rear mount, which is the same as the rera mount on the ibiza.
Ye packaging is tough.Worst case scenario is go internal gate.Is cutting and welding your downpipe THAT difficult?
no but people are scared of stuff that aint bolt on
Ye packaging is tough.Worst case scenario is go internal gate.Is cutting and welding your downpipe THAT difficult?
Kinda difficult when there is NO tuner or fab shop anywhere close that could do it for you.
Yeah we're kinda short on places that are willing to fab things up, and not many people have tig welding equipment.
Ok well in that case what I need to organise is a COMPLETE stock set up from a SEAT Ibiza.Worst case scenario I build a downpipe for my kits.
Who wants to help?
some incentive for you lads :D
brandon888
13-08-2008, 01:41
something like this would be ideal off the shelve for ibizas/leons
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/VW-3-Downpipe-MKIV-Transverse-1-8T-Turbo-3-GT28R-25_W0QQitemZ380044589923QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item380044589923&_trkparms=39%3A1%7C65%3A1&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245.l1318
then you can go gt28rs or a real gt28r like this http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Garrett-GT28R-Turbo-GT-28R-Turbocharger-GT2560R-T25-T28_W0QQitemZ190131852383QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item190131852383&_trkparms=39%3A1%7C65%3A1&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245.l1318
is the above link for the gt28rs is the real monty ...... it looks a bit cheap on the price ? also the above link turbo is the gt2560r and backdraft is gt2860r ....so what is the difference between the 2 turbo's .....
GT2560R is the GT28R and Backdraft only use the GT28RS and above. GT28R flows to around 310bhp and GT28RS around 350bhp.
nogutsnoglory
13-08-2008, 09:06
^ what he said lol
brandon888
13-08-2008, 12:24
ah .... i c now ! so will the gt2560r spool up quicker than the gt2860r ...?
brandon888
13-08-2008, 19:56
done some research think it quite possible can get all the parts together for under 2k ......
nogutsnoglory
13-08-2008, 21:21
yes a lot quicker spool up.
This says there are 3 difference types...
"When ordering please let us know which model you would like:
-7 320hp
-5 350hp
-10 400hp "
Wonder if they mean GT2560R, GT2860R, and GT2871R?
http://www.modyourcar.com.au/garrett-gt2560r-gtr-320hp-ball-bearing-turbo-p4678
What do you think the GT28RS,GT28R and GT2871R is ;)
brandon888
14-08-2008, 00:04
What do you think the GT28RS,GT28R and GT2871R is ;)
that's what im trying to find out , come issam tell me what u know about the above 3 turbo's ... i e spool up time , max bhp etc ?
You guys need to remember that most of turbo's come with T25 housings.You have almost 1.8L:'s of displacement (1781cc's).I recommend to ALL my customers to go with a turbocharger that has AT LEAST a T31 turbine housing.
Trust me when I say this....a GT3071R will spool just as fast a GT2871R and will make more power up top.As for the 3 turbo's....it depends what YOu the end user wants to make.The reason they are limiting the power outputs is because the wheels are smaller.
wild willy
14-08-2008, 00:16
You guys need to remember that most of turbo's come with T25 housings.You have almost 1.8L:'s of displacement (1781cc's).I recommend to ALL my customers to go with a turbocharger that has AT LEAST a T31 turbine housing.
Trust me when I say this....a GT3071R will spool just as fast a GT2871R and will make more power up top.As for the 3 turbo's....it depends what YOu the end user wants to make.The reason they are limiting the power outputs is because the wheels are smaller.
But won't a T25 housing promote a faster spool than a T3 relative to the smaller garret turbo's
brandon888
14-08-2008, 00:22
so what the max bhp can the GT3071R can make ...... ? and one thing is when u go for the high output power turbo it need to upgrade the engine internal which wouldnt want to do ... is it possible to fit the GT3071R turbo and remap it to give around 330bhp ,if i do that will the turbo spool up as fast as if i remap it to the full potential ......
But won't a T25 housing promote a faster spool than a T3 relative to the smaller garret turbo's
Depends on the A/R's
The T25 can come with a 0.64 A/R housing but thats nowhere CLOSE to the 0.63 A/R found in the T31 housings.
The reason your getting a faster spool is because your using a smaller housing but real world results will tell you that back pressure is what is killing your power.
so what the max bhp can the GT3071R can make ...... ? and one thing is when u go for the high output power turbo it need to upgrade the engine internal which wouldnt want to do ... is it possible to fit the GT3071R turbo and remap it to give around 330bhp ,if i do that will the turbo spool up as fast as if i remap it to the full potential ......
Lets break it down.
The GT2871R is known as ....well....the GT2871R
The GT28RS is known as the GT2860R
The GT28R is known as the GT2560R
TURBINE
GT2560R
* Wheel: 53mm w/ 62 trim
* Housing: .64 ar
GT2860R
* Wheel: 53.85mm w/ 76 trim
* Housing: .64 or .86 ar
GT2871R
* Wheel: 53.85mm w/ 76 trim
* Housing: .86 or .64 ar
COMPRESSOR
GT2560R
* Wheel: 60mm w/ 60 trim
* Housing: .60 ar
Flow : 320hp
GT2860R
* Wheel: 60mm w/ 62 trim
* Housing: .60 ar
Flow : 350hp
GT2871R
* Wheel: 71mm w/ 56 trim
* Housing: .60 ar
Flow : 400hp
GT3071R can go all the way to 460bhp....even more.Engine internals are really not that much when you think about it.Most of us have 100,000+ km's on our engine.Spend a weekend pulling the engine,give it a fresh breather on life and forge up the rods.
I would not waste my money on a GT2560 or GT2860.....your basically paying the same price for a GT2871R and getting less performance.The whole point here is to make an efficient system.
brandon888
14-08-2008, 01:27
so what parts will i need to freshen up o upgrade on to capable to handle the GT271R turbo
GT3071R?
For a GT2871R you dont need to upgrade anything.For a 3071R you are looking @ rods.When you change the connecting rods I recommend doing the connecting rod bearings as well as the seals.
brandon888
14-08-2008, 01:50
can u supplie the GT2871R and the lines ??? if so how much
Send me a PM with your address.
What using a T3/T4E 50 trim type turbos? Lots of other variants about the theyre pretty good on price, i know theyre kinda old technology but theyre gotta be a worth a look?
I'm thinkin, bills manifold, 50 trim, v-band adaptor, ATP 3" low profile elbow downpipe then get an exhaust place local to me to make up the piece between the downpipe and cat back system.
What using a T3/T4E 50 trim type turbos? Lots of other variants about the theyre pretty good on price, i know theyre kinda old technology but theyre gotta be a worth a look?
I'm thinkin, bills manifold, 50 trim, v-band adaptor, ATP 3" low profile elbow downpipe then get an exhaust place local to me to make up the piece between the downpipe and cat back system.
I personally like the journal bearings turbos because they:
* are Cheap
* have huge support
* have many combinations of wheels to choose from.
On my 8V I ran a T3/T04E 57 trim (0.63 A/R on the turbine with Stage 3 wheel) and made 307 whp.Granted journal turbos will not spool as fast as a ball bearing unit but for the 600US+ you save you can invest in a stroker kit:whistle:
They are not THAT old in terms of technology.Lots of guys still making great power with journal bearings turbos.Your stock KKK turbo is journal bearing.Personally speaking there is alot of hype involved with Garrett GT line...yes I love them and I do use them but the journal bearing line up is not that bad.
Don't alot of guys in the USA like the T3 Super 60 (whatever that is)?
Thats a "retarded" GT2871R....
if i was going journal it would have to be a T3/T04E 50 trim or 57 trim.
An INA turbo kit in the making .... manifold, T3/T04E turbo and DP for 300bhp?
Rob, have you seen the Kinetic kit? I know i'm banging on about this, but its the closest to being the kit needed.
Issam, price please on a 50 trim, v-band flange adaptor and tial 44mm WG please. :D
Phil send me a PM my friend.
INA kit IS in the making
Not sure of the Kinetic downpipe will clear your brake booster.
Backdraft
14-08-2008, 17:58
that's what im trying to find out , come issam tell me what u know about the above 3 turbo's ... i e spool up time , max bhp etc ?
Seems to be some confusing information on turbos coming out.
We use Garrett GT2860RS turbos in different set ups. There are so many different GT2860RS turbos but we use 2 to give different performance.
We use what we call a GT2860RS -5 which will flow up to 325 BHP.
We also use a GT2860RS -1 which will flow up to 350 BHP.
The GT28 bit is the size of the exhaust wheel and the 60 is the compressor wheel. Different housings are then used to balance the exhaust flow and compressed gas flow.
We also use a GT2871R which will flow up to 400 BHP. This uses the GT28 exhaust wheel and a 71 compressor wheel.
Hope that explains it a bit for you. To confuse matters, as distributors of genuine Garrett turbos we can supply just about any combination of wheels and housing you want.
Our best road kit uses the 325 BHP GT2860RS -5 turbo which spins up really fast and makes for a really quick road car. The turbo suits the pipework and 1.8T standard bore head beautifully. Yes it only makes 325 BHP at the top end but the cars with these kits fitted will eat seriously exotic road cars for raw speed.
Great thread. Hope my 10 pence worth is useful.
Regards
Mark
Rob, have you seen the Kinetic kit? I know i'm banging on about this, but its the closest to being the kit needed.
Issam, price please on a 50 trim, v-band flange adaptor and tial 44mm WG please. :D
Can't find any 1.8T kit on the Kinetic site other than K04 or APR, will be for LHD only anyway.
Mark please do not take the following the wrong way.
Seems to be some confusing information on turbos coming out.
Not from our end.
We use what we call a GT2860RS -5 which will flow up to 325 BHP.
We also use a GT2860RS -1 which will flow up to 350 BHP..
Different inducer size on the compressor blades,same exducer size
Hope that explains it a bit for you. To confuse matters, as distributors of genuine Garrett turbos we can supply just about any combination of wheels and housing you want..
Thats nice,welcome to the club.
We do not focus on the varying combination of wheels because the GT2860RS (-1,-5,-7,etc) are more suitable for spool up & powerband bragging.In the US the market calls for a big bigger turbo as people are looking to get higher numbers, spooling isn't as much as an issue here with the long straight aways.We are more focused on making the max hp for the dollar spent.
Our best road kit uses the 325 BHP GT2860RS -5 turbo which spins up really fast and makes for a really quick road car. The turbo suits the pipework and 1.8T standard bore head beautifully. Yes it only makes 325 BHP at the top end but the cars with these kits fitted will eat seriously exotic road cars for raw speed.
Of course it is because your running low on back pressure.Allthough the GT2871R adds a little lag to the system compared to the GT2860R,it is a better turbocharger suited for the 1.8T.Of course this is my personal opinion based on experience.
Even more suited is the GT3071R, to be more prcise the GT3071R-20 and GT3071R-3.I urge anyone here to take a ride in a GT3071R equipped 1.8T (chirst you have 1781cc's of displacement) and then compare it to any GT28 kit you have driven in.The price is practically the same and the performance is night and day.
You want your engine to spool @ idle then get a supercharger.....
Backdraft
15-08-2008, 08:21
We do not focus on the varying combination of wheels because the GT2860RS (-1,-5,-7,etc) are more suitable for spool up & powerband bragging.In the US the market calls for a big bigger turbo as people are looking to get higher numbers, spooling isn't as much as an issue here with the long straight aways.We are more focused on making the max hp for the dollar spent.
Sorry to post in your own section, for some reason I got sent this thread automatically through the Forum and I just wanted to clear up a few things for the guys here in the UK.
I completely agree that in the US you have lots of long straight roads and bigger is always better. Unfortunatley we think a bit differently at Backdraft.
Given that most UK roads are tight and twisty, as are many of the circuits, quick spool is very important to us over here IMO.
The difference is lag between a GT2860RS and a GT2871R is MINIMAL.
IbizaAlex
17-08-2008, 13:19
Usually between 500 to 1000 rpm on the larger exhaust housing. Quite alot really when you want to come on the power out of tight bends.
if you have supporting mods the difference between the 2 is not 1000 rpm's.It is in the 550 rpm +/- range
courtesy of Donato
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m49/chaos92287/gt3540_spool.jpg
Interesting plot. :yes:
My GTRS Eliminator, with mbc.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/DPJ/boostlog.jpg
Now imagine how a 3071R will behave....results dont lie ;)
brandon888
19-08-2008, 18:52
what's is GIAC 2.5 and GIAC open .....?
I am guessing that open dump bs
brandon888
20-08-2008, 01:42
so what is open dump bs ...
I've still got those k04-23 graphs somewhere if anyone's interested.
Although, I have to say:
Now imagine how a 3071R will behave....results dont lie ;)
Kind of contradictory, don't you think.... :D I for one would love to see a similar graph with a 3071 on it.
How different are 3071R and the GT3540?
so what is open dump bs ...
The electronic valve that some people weld onto there downpipes....pointless really.Trying to find a pic but its escaping me right now.
GT3540 aka GT3582R...thats a 600whp turbocharger.I dont recommend that unless you have bumped displacement and you are fine with driving a Skoda Octavia 1.6 SR for the first 4000 rpm's....after that hold on.
Right....so as I was saying:
http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z14/turboguy717/BobGgt2871vsJCgt3071.jpg
Red line is a GT3071R
Blue line is a GT2871R
How many people is this going to piss off?:lol:
jamiebennett81
21-08-2008, 16:59
Right....so as I was saying:
http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z14/turboguy717/BobGgt2871vsJCgt3071.jpg
Red line is a GT3071R
Blue line is a GT2871R
How many people is this going to piss off?:lol:
I am just gunna say dyno lottery:lol::p
Too bad the power will snap your rods in 2.
jamiebennett81
21-08-2008, 17:23
Too bad the power will snap your rods in 2.
if I had the money, I would sure stick one of these babies in, with the right work done to the head first of course
ibizacupra
21-08-2008, 18:19
what a/r's Issam?
respectively
brandon888
21-08-2008, 18:38
how come the GT3071R spool up quicker than the GT2871R .....?
wild willy
21-08-2008, 19:16
Thats dispels a few myths then. :whistle:
Any chance you could overlay the torque plots as well.
More than a few myth's
I will get the A/R's later on....working on something right now :D
We're kinda getting off the point here, going big turbo isn't really hard in the UK, you just needs lots of £££ to do it - Backdraft, APR and Jabba all do BT kits, but you're talking £5k to go there.
What we need is a mid point between stock and big turbo at a reasonable cost, say half that at £2.5k.
jamiebennett81
26-08-2008, 15:21
We're kinda getting off the point here, going big turbo isn't really hard in the UK, you just needs lots of £££ to do it - Backdraft, APR and Jabba all do BT kits, but you're talking £5k to go there.
What we need is a mid point between stock and big turbo at a reasonable cost, say half that at £2.5k.
TBH, I think that is a myth Rob..
you know as well as I do, that going cheap on big power is not possible, or if it is, then what corners are being cut in order to achieve this (reliability, cheaper poorer made parts?)?
if UK companies are pricing BT kits at around the 5k mark as you say, then this must be for a reason surely?
not to rip us off, but for the job to be done properly (and taking into account a profit as business is business of course)
What we need is a mid point between stock and big turbo ................
:confused: That isn't big turbo though......... which is what this thread is about.
jamiebennett81
26-08-2008, 15:33
:confused: That isn't big turbo though......... which is what this thread is about.
is not mid point around 290-300bhp though?:blink:
that to me would be a gt2x or hybrid K04?
unfortunately if you want big power, then you have to pay the big money.......
brandon888
26-08-2008, 15:33
i think 5k for a big turbo cost too much .... the reason the states can do it cheaper cuz they got alot more tuners more in house designs and more competition ... whereas in the uk we got limited company's to choose so is less competition and therefore they can keep the price higher ....
APR stage 3+ kits cost £2500 in the USA ... 'nuff said! :( If you went to the USA and said here's a big turbo kit for $10,000 they'd just laugh at you and probably beat you up.
I mean in the UK a GT28RS is £800, manifold say £500, DP and CAT say £500 - that's only £1800. Add injectors for £200 and you're at £2000, so where does £5k seem right or fair???
jamiebennett81
26-08-2008, 15:57
i think 5k for a big turbo cost too much .... the reason the states can do it cheaper cuz they got alot more tuners more in house designs and more competition ... whereas in the uk we got limited company's to choose so is less competition and therefore they can keep the price higher ....
i wouldn't be as synical to say due to less tuning companies being around in the UK, then they all just "hike" up the prices because they can
a business needs to make a profit, but at the same time, each one offers similar packages, but competitively priced to retain customers and future business of course
as with a lot of things, if it is in abundance then typically the cost of the materials is cheaper etc which is why tuning parts in the US will be cheaper, ultimately adding to tuning packages again being cheaper
we of course here get stung for tax etc which eventually is worked into the costs of the packages that tuners over here offer us
end of the day, buy cheap, buy twice.....
I thought you guys were mechanically inclined?
Just look at scooby tuning ( check out scooby clinic ) and how cheap that is because theres alot more demand..... its gutting to see how much they pay for a big turbo upgrade.
It does make you think about selling up and going in a different direction!
And the other thing that you have to bear in mind is that we have a national sales tax of 17.5%. The us only have local sales tax, so buy from outside the state and it's tax free. They also have lhd, and are the largest market in the world, so logically it is more competitive.
Also unfortunately this country is saddled by high wages and expensive property which means that business overheads are more than double those of the US.
But if you're moderatelty educated or skilled, you earn £25k whereas in the US you'd earn a similar figure in dollars. The whole UK price thing is exaggerated by the exchange rate. Make it $1.50 to the pound, and things (less tax) look much more similar.
Ultimately you can either afford what you want, or you can't. If you're the latter, then get used to it. It's a way of life for 99% of the population.
jamiebennett81
26-08-2008, 21:48
And the other thing that you have to bear in mind is that we have a national sales tax of 17.5%. The us only have local sales tax, so buy from outside the state and it's tax free. They also have lhd, and are the largest market in the world, so logically it is more competitive.
Also unfortunately this country is saddled by high wages and expensive property which means that business overheads are more than double those of the US.
But if you're moderatelty educated or skilled, you earn £25k whereas in the US you'd earn a similar figure in dollars. The whole UK price thing is exaggerated by the exchange rate. Make it $1.50 to the pound, and things (less tax) look much more similar.
Ultimately you can either afford what you want, or you can't. If you're the latter, then get used to it. It's a way of life for 99% of the population.
totally agree:)
hence why we pay more!
ibizacupra
26-08-2008, 22:06
APR stage 3+ kits cost £2500 in the USA ... 'nuff said! :( If you went to the USA and said here's a big turbo kit for $10,000 they'd just laugh at you and probably beat you up.
I mean in the UK a GT28RS is £800, manifold say £500, DP and CAT say £500 - that's only £1800. Add injectors for £200 and you're at £2000, so where does £5k seem right or fair???
thank UK taxes
dont like it, leave
grass is greener and all that
since when does fair come to life?
LOL
here in norway you have to pay 12000 pund fore a stage 5 thats 280hp!!!thats expensive!!!
All this money talk....who is sending some my way? :D
wild willy
27-08-2008, 08:24
All this money talk....who is sending some my way? :D
Theres so much cash being wired in your direction, Paypal have had to Buy more bandwidth.:p
When are we going to see the spec on these turbo kits.
Backdraft
27-08-2008, 08:30
APR stage 3+ kits cost £2500 in the USA ... 'nuff said! :( If you went to the USA and said here's a big turbo kit for $10,000 they'd just laugh at you and probably beat you up.
I mean in the UK a GT28RS is £800, manifold say £500, DP and CAT say £500 - that's only £1800. Add injectors for £200 and you're at £2000, so where does £5k seem right or fair???
Seems you are missing that generally the map, oil and water lines, inlet, hoses, intercooler and fitting are included in the 5k price. Thats not just with us but most turbo kit suppliers and fitters.
Alex
wild willy
27-08-2008, 08:48
Seems you are missing that generally the map, oil and water lines, inlet, hoses, intercooler and fitting are included in the 5k price. Thats not just with us but most turbo kit suppliers and fitters.
Alex
Labour is overpiced though for a days work. Many people have intercoolers already. Its all the additional parts that in my opinion is overpriced. The map is expensive too at£500 plus. Why not do a deal with a supplier for say £300. Your kits look excellent and i'd love to have one but not at those prices. I know i'm about to be ridden like a blackpool donkey :blink: for those coments but just my 2p. My business policy is to make less £'s per unit but sell many of them. Big turbo kits could be mainstream.
ibizacupra
27-08-2008, 08:58
Big turbo kits could be mainstream.
:no:
not in the Uk they wont..
too conservative a country in the main
When are we going to see the spec on these turbo kits.
Soon...
the extra money you guys can toss a plane ticket my way....:D
What does that mean? lol.
Right....so as I was saying:
http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z14/turboguy717/BobGgt2871vsJCgt3071.jpg
Red line is a GT3071R
Blue line is a GT2871R
How many people is this going to piss off?:lol:
Hey Sam, any ideas as to how the GT3071R spools up quicker than the GT2871R??
IbizaAlex
15-12-2008, 12:56
Different AR? Or it looks like the runs were started at different rpms.
Hey Sam, any ideas as to how the GT3071R spools up quicker than the GT2871R??
Try breathing with 1 nostrel closed ;)