View Full Version : Nice car pity about ?brakes
StainedBob
02-06-2003, 20:31
I have proudly owned an Ibiza 130 for 2 months now, its reasonably quick enough in its present mod-less state...and is economical (50s) unless you push it..but then there's the ABS.....
For the second time in the dry with good tyres, normal tyre pressure and ok road surface I have overshot a junction and today a roundabout..My previous ABS-less cars have eaten brakes, overheated and warped discs on a regular basis..Ok I used to lock up the odd wheel here and there, but I would rather a cloud of smoke than not stopping!!
Is it me, the car, or do i just expect too much?
Bob
theres a few of us had the abs kick in unexpectedly
try lookin further up the road ?
;) or drivin slower
if you are gettin abs cutting in under "normal" driving conditions theres summat wrong
as instructor : castle coombe once said - you only will need abs in an emergency situation - any other time your driving too fast
slim_boy_fat
02-06-2003, 22:13
There is a thread about this from 2 months or so ago...I felt the same about the ABS initially the first week i activated it about 4 times in the dry, but i think its more to do with the stiff suspention. While braking if you hit an uneven patch on the road the car skips slightly loss of pressure on the tyre results in lock up and ABS activation. The one thing i would say is that once its activated i think it stays on abit longer than it need to be. Trick is to be smooth with the brakes. There is plenty of bit in the dry if you need it once you get the front loaded up. I had to use them very hard last week to stop myself running into a cupra R that couldnt match my acceleration...:redface:
I am changing tyres to Goodyear F1s soon and hope to get abit more bit from them.
But perhaps more anticipation of the road ahead is required ;)
Brakes with faff all bite and a cack setup ;)
http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=18165
Said it before. But the ABS cuts in too much at times when its not needed/wanted.
You just gotta expect it cos there isn't anything you can really do about it.
On a side note according to my ECU I have intermittant Comms with the ABS module. The fault has only occured once but it may be indicative of a problem.
Will have to see now that I've replaced the discs. and put new pads on it.
Originally posted by slim_boy_fat
I had to use them very hard last week to stop myself running into a cupra R that couldnt match my acceleration...:redface:
Shhhh don't let the R lot hear that!!
:eek:
muddyboots
03-06-2003, 08:15
I find this ABS-problem quite odd.
There's obviously quite a few people with the same problem as it's been mentioned several times - but I've never once had a problem with it on my car. Apart from braking on rough/loose ground I don't think it's ever kicked in, even when braking hard.
Makes me think either:
A) It's a known problem that Seat have fixed on later models, or
B) You're just driving too fast !
slim_boy_fat
03-06-2003, 08:28
Will be interesting to see if the intermitent comms fault is on other cars Rage.
To be honest i havent really noticed it for a month or so, it was really the first couple of weeks i had the car. Prob just getting used to the brakes. I certanly dont find them wanting in the power department, they will slow the car up i the same time as the Brembos on the R...(before all the your talking 5hite replys Autocar tested both 2.6 sec 60-0)
Still think the ABS program could be refined abit more..
60-0 doesn't matter - it's 100-0 where the Brembo's will win out as they'll cope with much higher temps than OE brakes.. Try slowing down repeatedly from 60-0 and see how fast OE brakes fade! That said, chaning to higher temp pads makes a hell of a difference as they don't cook so easy. My OE pads were well and truely dead when i took them off the car to replace them with pagid's...
Part of my shopping list for the big power upgrade (350+) is to go with front brembos - four pot, brembo pads and drilled and/or grooved discs. I'll need it!
:cheers:
slim_boy_fat
03-06-2003, 13:23
Originally posted by dangel
60-0 doesn't matter - it's 100-0 where the Brembo's will win out as they'll cope with much higher temps than OE brakes.. Try slowing down repeatedly from 60-0 and see how fast OE brakes fade! That said, chaning to higher temp pads makes a hell of a difference as they don't cook so easy. My OE pads were well and truely dead when i took them off the car to replace them with pagid's...
Part of my shopping list for the big power upgrade (350+) is to go with front brembos - four pot, brembo pads and drilled and/or grooved discs. I'll need it!
:cheers:
The brembos prob will have the eadge on the 100-0 but not sure how many times on the road you will repeatedly slow from 60-0 or 100-0. Prob once every few months when a Metro pull out in front of you..
Back in the real world the brakes are pretty powerful.
With 350 i am sure you will need it, that if you are doing alot of track work which i tend to avoid in my tdi!!
I was merely pointing out that the autocar test quoted ignores heat disappation under repeated braking - in real world you *do* brake more than once within a short period of time, *or* you hold the brakes on for a long period of time - either way that's a lot of heat to get rid of, along with the gasses produced under braking. What does the beezer run? Mine are solid vented disks on the front (and not small by any means) but i woudn't make claims about them being anywhere near as good as brembos - i've driven both and there's a huge difference in stopping power.
Outside of that i'm guessing you've got one pot brakes (like me) which doesn't have anywhere near the clamping power of a four pot caliper.
If there's anything i envy on the R is the brakes - they're absolutely awesome :)
slim_boy_fat
03-06-2003, 13:43
The disks are 288mm vented on the front, solid rears. The pad area between them and the Rs are not that much different. The Rs can generate abit more moment as they are slighlty larger.
There is no doubt the Rs brakes are the bollox. Its the main thing that struck me about the car.
There is prob not a great diff in the way they handel the heat build up under normal road use. The best bit is that they are red and have brembo stamped on them..
And to be honest i very rarely have to stomp on the brakes, maybe i just dont drive quite as fast.
Originally posted by muddyboots
I find this ABS-problem quite odd.
There's obviously quite a few people with the same problem as it's been mentioned several times - but I've never once had a problem with it on my car. Apart from braking on rough/loose ground I don't think it's ever kicked in, even when braking hard.
Makes me think either:
A) It's a known problem that Seat have fixed on later models, or
B) You're just driving too fast !
I've only ever had unexpected / unnecessary ABS in my Ibiza and I certainly didn't drive it any faster than any other cars I've had recently - in fact after a couple of scares I probably made allowances for the ABS and braked more gently. Neither is it significantly heavier (and it's balance puts lots of weight over the front to aid traction) nor did it have skinnier tyres (my Alfa 164 was heavier and ran 195's against the Ibiza's 205's, the 944 runs 205 fronts as well).
Also, when the ABS triggers you really don't slow down very quickly (the scariest bit of all) - other cars have your eyeballs on the windscreen when the ABS triggers on a dry road. You can get the Ibiza to brake quite hard sometimes, but once that pedal-patter starts it's like being on ice - definitely a problem IMO.
The brembos have alot more clamping force, but not sure they handle heat any better than the OE stuff on a FR pad Timbo.
The brembos are usually better cus they come with bigger discs as well. When ECS comes out with the 312mm 2 piece rotor I might just get it, because along with being lighter it's got directional vanes instead of the radial outward of the OE discs.
SBF-
don't forget that the Leon/toledo is a good bit heavier. I've overtaxed the brakes quite a few times on the toledo, but never did on my old ibiza.
slim_boy_fat
03-06-2003, 15:19
Originally posted by prc
The brembos have alot more clamping force, but not sure they handle heat any better than the OE stuff on a FR pad Timbo.
The brembos are usually better cus they come with bigger discs as well. When ECS comes out with the 312mm 2 piece rotor I might just get it, because along with being lighter it's got directional vanes instead of the radial outward of the OE discs.
SBF-
don't forget that the Leon/toledo is a good bit heavier. I've overtaxed the brakes quite a few times on the toledo, but never did on my old ibiza.
Yes they are heavier but not really that much maybe 100-200kgs (depending on the driver :redface:
Once the ceramic brakes are available(at reasonable cost) then i will get an upgrade.