View Full Version : Can't decide about REVO?........This should help.
mark sheerin
07-07-2003, 14:35
If you still can't decide about REVO then all I can say is come on in the waters lovely..:D
Look at this lot.......(revo Cupra based on 1304kgs 210bhp)
CAR ................BHP/TONNE
Clio Cup ................171
Focus RS ................169
Audi S3 (225).......... 166
Civic Type R............. 166
Golf R32 ................165
BMW 535i ................164
Subaru WRX............ 163
Cupra Revo............. 161*
BMW 330ci sport..... 160
Mercedes E430....... 160
clio 172 ................157
3.0 V6 GTV............. 157
Lexus 430 saloon... 156
Cupra R ................155*
Mercedes S430....... 155
Mondeo ST 220....... 152
A4 3.0 Quattro........ 149
BMW 530i ................146
Cooper S ................145
Cupra std ................138*
Octavia RS............... 133
Surely you can't still be wondering.....
:D
Mark out of intrest how would a 200bhp Ibiza cupra fair, can u work it out mate....
mark sheerin
07-07-2003, 14:45
My Top gear magazine that gave me all the above figures doesn't have the OLD Ibiza in but if you know how much it weighs I can sort it..?
The Leon Cupra weighs 1304kg
The Leon Cupra R weighs 1354 kg
Hence why the Revo'ed Cupra has a better power to weight when pushing out the same 210bhp as the Cupra R
Cheers Mark, Seat Ibiza 1.8t 20 v weighs 1119kg's.
mark sheerin
07-07-2003, 14:53
You spawny git madmile...
an ass kicking 178 bhp tonne....
Guess who goes to the top of the list...:D
Mark_2_go
07-07-2003, 14:57
What about an R Mark.!
:confused:
Mark_2_go
07-07-2003, 14:57
a REVO'd R that is.
:D :cheers:
or 196.6 for one with 220 :D
I aint spawney at the moment mate, i am running a superchip which me and the ibiza smoggies reckon only makes 185-190bhp. And my maf sensor is knackered but is being repaired under warranty this week. I am also going to Jabba at the end ot the month, superchip out, jabba in. So i hope this will make more power more safely. The superchip is shit, cant wait to get it out. On saying that though i can still keep up with scoobys wrx sti's on the straights, and evo 4's. And if you remember i was one of the first to have a proper go with a fiat 20v turbo and hold it off no problems. I also raced Toonmans wrx ppp's scooby and did the Seat's proud. Thanks for working that out for me mark, it will give me some idea of pwr/weight once jabba'd:D
mark sheerin
07-07-2003, 15:12
The Calculation for anybody who wants it is..(using madmiles as an example....
(bhp divided by weight in kilos) x 1000
(200 / 1119)
= 0.178731
* 1000
=178.(731)
mark sheerin
07-07-2003, 15:15
Originally posted by NickP
or 196.6 for one with 220 :D
those figures don't compute...?
A Cupra R with 220bhp would be 162
You'd need 266bhp in a Cupra R to get a bhp/tonne of 196.6..:)
Sorry, was talking about an Ibiza!
220 / 1.119
196.6 bhp per Tonne:D
Originally posted by NickP
Sorry, was talking about an Ibiza!
220 / 1.119
196.6 bhp per Tonne:D
Interesting,that would be me then:D at the mo
It just goes to show that power isn't everything as both a standard Clio 172 and standard Honda CTR can 'beat' a chipped Ibiza in sprints but have a substantially lower power-weight ratio.
mark sheerin
07-07-2003, 15:34
Hmm
IbizaCupras 'Starship Badger'
323?/1.119
288 bhp/tonne
Lets all ask for a go in it...:D
When I'm up at Jabba I may ask for a go in their demonstrator :D :devil:
mark sheerin
07-07-2003, 15:39
Don't forget your baggy trousers and KY jelly:D
and smile nicely...
The only problem with bhp/ton comparisons is that they only compare peak bhp which varies from car to car. What it doesn't illustrate is the effect of the power delivery on the cars.
Typically turbo'd cars will produce more torque across a wider band than normally aspirated cars. This means that in the TIME it takes to get from idle to Pmax RPM, the turbo'd car will be accelerating faster for a longer period, all else being equal.
In-gear 30-70mph acceleration times are a better indicator of real-world performance and take into account the cars overall gearing (wheels, final drive, etc).
So when the local neds start going on about Clio/CTR/Saxo bhp/ton - remember it's not as simple as that.
Mark_2_go
07-07-2003, 15:46
I think somebody recorded 282bhp in there Revo'd R on this forum could have been cupramax.
or ........... 208 bhp/tonne.
Nice :D :cheers:
Are you sure you are racing stnd ctr's. There are issues with chip tuners but i would not dare to voice my opinion on them. I have learned the hard way (£511 superchip) thats why i am going to jabba. I think a lot is to do with how the car goes, how the boost is delivered and held. But i dont want to upset anyone one and at the end of the day they are only a novice's opinion (mine) and would hate to say something that i have not had first hand knowledge of. Just what i think may be true.:D
mark sheerin
07-07-2003, 16:02
I'm happy with the Revo..
Ok so its generic..one size fits all....
but so is the original ECU from the manufacturer.
It is going nicely for me and although power does fade before the red line it does come in from low speed without any peaks or troughs to dodge around.
I haven't had any overboosting problems some have mentioned.
The only downside is (and this isn't a revo critisism but a general opinion on turbo'ed engines)...
One day you can have more or less power than another dependent on atmospheric conditions and this seems more noticable the higher the boost you run.
My old 2.8 merc NA straight six felt just the same day in day out.
Having said that on a good day a turbo does really fly.
:D fair point that mark regarding atmos conditions, had loads of turbo cars rs escort + rs fester, but more recently 1.8t golf and now lcr,temp has a lot to do with it but not always its down to a few things inc atmos pressure, which effects air density which is the key, thats y a car after a thunder storm will go like split s*it due to air becoming denser and ions altering charge(if u can stop it spinning its wheels) noticed it more with vag cars prob due to having more advaced sensors,mine was flying yesterday,but seems a lot slower today or is it in our heads?????
:cheers:
Could be our heads. Haven't noticed it much on the LCR, but haven't had it that long and the weather's been fine recently.
I did notice it a hell of a lot on my old Mazda 323 4x4 Turbo - 1.6 litre engine, big turbo. Especially on cold/frosty mornings on Earlys. "eeeee, them were t'days"
I wanted to chip in to ask Mark - do you think the "lack" of top end is just a matter of perception, as the bottom end is so strong? or does getting it Revo'd screw up the top end (I suppose dyno graphs would be most telling)...
LEO LION R
07-07-2003, 20:48
Mark the European Leon R may be 1354kg, but the UK one with Brembos and 18" alloys and standard seats is 1376kg, allowing for a 75kg driver and fuel and washer bottle full. Even heavier with Recaros and Satnav.
Interstingly (not - yawn) EVO have the Leon R down as 155bph/T but state it weighs 1376kg, but with 210bhp and 1376kg it should only be 153bhp/T. And so if you work it out in reverse from their result (155bhp/T and 210bhp) it calculates that the Leon R does in fact weigh the same 1354kg as you stated ? weird (no not me ;) )
:cheers:
what about the PWR:Weight ratio of your LCR between the start of your Diet and now :p
mark sheerin
08-07-2003, 00:02
Originally posted by Feel
I wanted to chip in to ask Mark - do you think the "lack" of top end is just a matter of perception, as the bottom end is so strong? or does getting it Revo'd screw up the top end (I suppose dyno graphs would be most telling)...
Check this out.....;)
http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=20007
Apparently its to do with full boost being an engine killer at high revs...or maybe the small K03 turbo has just topped out by then?
not sure.....
184 bhp/tonne here :p :D :p
ibizacupra
08-07-2003, 07:58
Originally posted by mark sheerin
Apparently its to do with full boost being an engine killer at high revs...or maybe the small K03 turbo has just topped out by then?
not sure.....
K03/K04 limit high rpm high boost..... just get really hot.
Larger turbo req'd for top end power.
Lower boost will then get higher power - on IHI's anyway.
regards
bill
(321bhp/tonne :D)
Originally posted by ibizacupra
(321bhp/tonne :D)
Jesus... F'christ ;)
Still on the list for IHI. It's prolly gonna cost me my marriage but... there ya go eh?
:p
I'm on the list for the IHI too. :D
Mark, what else has a PW ratio of 300-325bhp/ton?
Looking at carstats.co.uk I see that Bills 0-60 and 1/4 miles time (From GTI Inters) was better than that of a Lambo Diablo!!!!!! :D
Soory, this was mean to be a Revo thread, I appologise! :redface:
Ben
mark sheerin
09-07-2003, 15:37
TVR Cebera 4.5 355:yikes:
Caterham R300/400/500 318/442/508
Porsche GT2 322
Lamborghini Murcelagio 319:D
Ehhh My Leon Topsport, 1263 kgs (AUQ engine+REVO),>>>> approx. 230 hp= 182.1 BHP P.T.
Satisfied (for the moment) :D
Originally posted by Glenn
The only problem with bhp/ton comparisons is that they only compare peak bhp which varies from car to car. What it doesn't illustrate is the effect of the power delivery on the cars.
Typically turbo'd cars will produce more torque across a wider band than normally aspirated cars. This means that in the TIME it takes to get from idle to Pmax RPM, the turbo'd car will be accelerating faster for a longer period, all else being equal.
In-gear 30-70mph acceleration times are a better indicator of real-world performance and take into account the cars overall gearing (wheels, final drive, etc).
So when the local neds start going on about Clio/CTR/Saxo bhp/ton - remember it's not as simple as that.
LOL my Clio Cup does 5.7 30-70 according to my AP22. Ned.
Also a standard CTR does 30-70 in about 6. Ned.
I raced a ctr on sat afternoon, it was 25 degrees, and a straight line race. I had him fair and square a chipped cupra will out run a ctr. I raced him from 40-130 and over this distance i pulled 3-5 cars lenghts in front of him. I have also raced a clio cup and it was more or less the same result. Long live the Cupra.
Originally posted by Madmile
I raced a ctr on sat afternoon, it was 25 degrees, and a straight line race. I had him fair and square a chipped cupra will out run a ctr. I raced him from 40-130 and over this distance i pulled 3-5 cars lenghts in front of him. I have also raced a clio cup and it was more or less the same result. Long live the Cupra.
LOL ok m8 i'll let you have your dreams. Bare in mind my pal owns a chipped 195 hp Ibiza Cupra and also have daily access to a Cupra R Leon so I know how they comapre in a "proper" race. Standard my Clio Cup was pretty even with his chipped Cupra Ibiza but did have an edge on him ever so slightly. Not raced him since ive fitted my chip and filter. :cheers:
Explain how a 210bhp leon cupra r which i am sure is a lot heavier than a 200bhp cupra. Is going to be quicker. I know i can beat a stnd leon r. The same as i can beat a stnd civic type-r. Your mates cupra is knackered, the same as the revo one that is struggleing at the moment. What you need to do is race some more cupra's, you cant beat one and think you can do them all. The majority of cupra's on here (chipped) are not struggling with cups and ctr's. I dont mean on the twistys i mean in a straight line. keep dreaming M8.:p
Originally posted by Neil82
Also a standard CTR does 30-70 in about 6. Ned.
love your sig neil. you forgot to mention it was downhill :eek:
It has its uses, but it is by no means spot on. Your best bet m8 is to stay on the cliosport forum. I have never heard of any, in form chipped cupra being beaten by a 172, clio cup. When i am bored and no scoobys will play i look for 306 rallyes, clio 172,cups, just to fill the time in as they pose no real threat. I have raced a 306 rallye 167bhp, 0-60 more or less the same as a clio cup. And i can givem a head start and by 100mph i am coming past. I will say it straight i have raced loads of stuff, and if i get done i say straight away as i have done in the past. I am sure your car is a good all rounder but it will not beat a chipped cupra in a straight line. All cupra owners should read what Mark posted up about being in the revo zone, it applies across the board change gear before 6000rpm as holding on does no good. I did beat a ctr on sat, and he was racing 140mph says he was.
Please bite cup boy as i am bored!!!!
When you're gunning it a massive torque/power band makes sod all difference TBH. I mean, when you change from 1 to 2 your revs don't drop to 2k, rather bounce it off 7k rpm and and start over again in and around 6k rpm - still right on the button. A car with a crap torque curve could keep a big-torque curve turbo very honest in a simple straight line sprint.
Right at the top end the 1.8T loses out but a 16v can keep it buzzing right in the zone and merrily keep up.
I don't know what the gear changes are like but I know the CTR has a better and quicker one than the Ibiza which can count for a lot when you are splitting hairs.
All i know is the gap got bigger. From right behing me to 4 cars lenghts approx. And other memebers from my neck of woods have done the same kind of thing to ctr's. Figures are of no real intrest to me, i am just saying how it happened!!!!!!!!!!!!.
Originally posted by vibrio
love your sig neil. you forgot to mention it was downhill :eek:
You still bitter? I think so... Madmile go look at some stats for a Clio Cup 1/4 mile 0-60 60-100 0-100 then compare it you modified Cupra... Then knock a bit of the times as mines chipped and you will see your talking out your ....
P.S Figures are of no real intrest to me, i am just saying how it happened!!!!!!!!!!!! with the chipped cupra :D
The cliosport forum is calling you!. Go back, why bother being here if all you do is say your clio beats chipped cupra's. Most of all your threads just slag of Seats. The only fair comment i can make is. When i bought the cupra i looked at a new clio cup and a 2001 172 sport. I could of had anyone, i have never owned a Seat before or a clio. So why did i pick the seat, its easy the clio was a complete bag of bolts, crap workmanship, the 172 had full service history and 14,000 miles on it. But the car looked liked it had done 100,000mls. You dont think i beat a ctr or a cup, fair enough thats up to you. You say you beat a chipped ibiza, if thats what happend that then thats fine also, we could argue all day long. I know i made the right choice.
P.S thanks for biteing, sorry writing back so soon:fag:
Originally posted by Madmile
The cliosport forum is calling you!. Go back, why bother being here if all you do is say your clio beats chipped cupra's. Most of all your threads just slag of Seats. The only fair comment i can make is. When i bought the cupra i looked at a new clio cup and a 2001 172 sport. I could of had anyone, i have never owned a Seat before or a clio. So why did i pick the seat, its easy the clio was a complete bag of bolts, crap workmanship, the 172 had full service history and 14,000 miles on it. But the car looked liked it had done 100,000mls. You dont think i beat a ctr or a cup, fair enough thats up to you. You say you beat a chipped ibiza, if thats what happend that then thats fine also, we could argue all day long. I know i made the right choice.
P.S thanks for biteing, sorry writing back so soon:fag:
I drove a Ibiza Cupra and a Ibiza Cupra R before buying my Cup and the handling in both of them was a joke and the way the engines make their power is not for me, totally dead over 5500 :repuke:
P.S thanks for biting as well :cheers:
bluenose172
15-07-2003, 00:07
Chip, decat and induction kit on a Cup you're looking at low 14's over the 1/4 mile, so by no means is a chipped Cupra gonna pull away from it. BTW said mate with chipped cupra has done a 14.9 1/4 mile time, doesn't sound ****ed to me!
Can I just make a few points.
a) All Renaults are crap when it comes to build quality and reliability.
b) Not everyone is bothered by your fastest 0-60 time. If you spend your life driving off junctions as fast as you can you must lead some delusional lives! Not everyone wishes to have their engines running at 5000+ revs all the time.
c) I wouldn't like to be in one of your "Cups" when you have a smash because I believe it may well smash worse than a tea cup and I wouldn't like to hazard a guess at what'd be left of yourselves neither.
e) In case you hadn't noticed this site is all about SEAT's and not about Renault's. If I wanted to see how fast your Renault was I would visit a Renault-based forum/site.
/End of rant/
Originally posted by edz
Can I just make a few points.
a) All Renaults are crap when it comes to build quality and reliability.
b) Not everyone is bothered by your fastest 0-60 time. If you spend your life driving off junctions as fast as you can you must lead some delusional lives! Not everyone wishes to have their engines running at 5000+ revs all the time.
c) I wouldn't like to be in one of your "Cups" when you have a smash because I believe it may well smash worse than a tea cup and I wouldn't like to hazard a guess at what'd be left of yourselves neither.
e) In case you hadn't noticed this site is all about SEAT's and not about Renault's. If I wanted to see how fast your Renault was I would visit a Renault-based forum/site.
/End of rant/
LOL the Clio Cup/172 has a 4 star NCAP crash rating :confused:
http://forum.cliosport.net/display_topic_threads.asp?ForumID=2&TopicID=40117&SearchPagePosition=1&search=Paul172Cup&searchMode=allwords&searchIn=Author&forum=0&searchSort=dateDESC&ReturnPage=Search
It's a solid little car, what rating is your Ibiza?
the way the engines make their power is not for me, totally dead over 5500
Got to agree, having owned a leon cupra, good low down pull, but nothing left high up rev range, which is no good for 0 - 100 etc
the fiat coupe i now have, has so much power from 3000 - rev limiter, when doing a overtaking move, 3rd gear pull out, pull back in, and the thing is still pulling hard to red line, this car just doesn't run out of puff!:)
dave
Originally posted by Neil82
You still bitter? I think so... Madmile go look at some stats for a Clio Cup 1/4 mile 0-60 60-100 0-100 then compare it you modified Cupra... Then knock a bit of the times as mines chipped and you will see your talking out your ....
P.S Figures are of no real intrest to me, i am just saying how it happened!!!!!!!!!!!! with the chipped cupra :D
why am I bitter you car is newer than mine got a bigger engine, lighter and more power than mine so its going to be faster. but then your still slower than a corsa with less power than you :p
Originally posted by bluenose172
Chip, decat and induction kit on a Cup you're looking at low 14's over the 1/4 mile, so by no means is a chipped Cupra gonna pull away from it. BTW said mate with chipped cupra has done a 14.9 1/4 mile time, doesn't sound ****ed to me!
low 14 from high 14 with a chip, decat and induction kit :o
yeah right. what was it low 14s that a totally stripped out cup with slick tyres got at york
Originally posted by dave
Got to agree, having owned a leon cupra, good low down pull, but nothing left high up rev range, which is no good for 0 - 100 etc
the fiat coupe i now have, has so much power from 3000 - rev limiter, when doing a overtaking move, 3rd gear pull out, pull back in, and the thing is still pulling hard to red line, this car just doesn't run out of puff!:)
dave
yeah but dave his cup would still beat your coupe :confused:
mark sheerin
15-07-2003, 09:08
Torque and power are the same thing..
your engine doesn't produce some torque at the driveshaft and some bhp to go with it..
bhp is just calculated from the torque figure...
some cars may not pull all the way to the red line but this doesn't harm their 0-100 time if the power is developed earlier just as long as there's power there.
Anyone watching GT racing will know that the Ferraris scream their tits off to get power .. where'as the Vipers just thunder past at no more than 8500 rpm
They have roughly the same overall power outputs though..
and the vipers usually win:)
mark - what iam trying to say is that, when in 0-100/dragrace type thing, people tend be in the higher rev ranges of car, so therefore,car that is poorer topend revs, will not do so well in all out really hard driving race type thing,
to give example, the leon cupra r, will match most of my in gear times, 50 - 70 ect, but yet it still wont beat my 0-100 fig, see what iam getting at?
dave
mark sheerin
15-07-2003, 12:16
I know what you mean...
Before I was revo'ed I had to wring every last rpm out of my Cupra to get best accelleration.
This morning in the tussle with the Astra GSI I had to remember to change gear at no more than 5700 rpm in fourth gear even though the red line is 800rpm further round the dial...
when I did though I was rewarded with another surge which the Astra GSi had no answer for as I was back in the fattest part of my cars torque/bhp again.
Do you have a power graph for your Fiat?
Does it actually show power rising all the way to the redline?
I think Dave is trying to suggest that the less gear changes that take place in a 0-100 sprint, the better, Mark, although I've known to be wrong a few occassions!!
Dead right mark. I used to ring the neck out of my chipped cupra and at the end of the rev range i was seeing 8-10psi. I now watch the rev counter and have a quick look at the boost guage and when it drops to 12-13psi i change gear usually 5500-5700 rpm. keeps it boiling well. And as you are always at 14-15 psi most of the time those clio cups and ctrs dont get a look in.
[QUOTE]Do you have a power graph for your Fiat?
[/QUDoes it actually show power rising all the way to the redline?OTE]
No graph, try get one soon
the max power is approx 6000rpm,rev limiter 7000 aprox, in 1st,2nd gear it seems to pull hard to red line, hit limiter quite often when overtaking in 2nd, sometime forget to change up, in 1st, 2nd things just happen so quickly, hard to keep eye on rev counter, and on the road, torque steer, etc, so change up when car feels like its dropping off, which in 1st, 2nd doesn't to happen, thats why hitting rev limiter now and again.
3rd seems to drop a wee bit earlier, around 6700,6800rpm, you hit 105, then start to lose a bit, but will carry onto 110mph, but generally better to change to 4th at the 105 mark.
also less gearchanges is going to be a big benfit, for 0-100.
thankyou "Stokesy"
dave
mark sheerin
15-07-2003, 15:27
Originally posted by Stokesy
I think Dave is trying to suggest that the less gear changes that take place in a 0-100 sprint, the better, Mark, although I've known to be wrong a few occassions!!
Hmmmmm I set off in sixth once...really struggled to get going lots of smoke from the burning clutch...kept the foot down though and at 80mph it really started to pick up speed...shot through the speed trap not even a single gear change but a really crap 0-100.
gutted me..still haven't sussed out why the time was so bad:(
Originally posted by vibrio
low 14 from high 14 with a chip, decat and induction kit :o
yeah right. what was it low 14s that a totally stripped out cup with slick tyres got at york
Vib the guy ran a 14.2 and all he had out of the car was the back seats (5 min job) an had chip, Viper, de-cat He has road legal half slick but his 60 ft times were only 2.3 or something about the same as mine so they aint helping him much:D
Originally posted by Neil82
LOL the Clio Cup/172 has a 4 star NCAP crash rating :confused:
http://forum.cliosport.net/display_topic_threads.asp?ForumID=2&TopicID=40117&SearchPagePosition=1&search=Paul172Cup&searchMode=allwords&searchIn=Author&forum=0&searchSort=dateDESC&ReturnPage=Search
It's a solid little car, what rating is your Ibiza?
Okay fair point, I was thinking of the older Clio for some reason. That link *is* quite impressive but I'm only going by what the poster said of course, not the facts.
I still stick to my guns however when I say the Ibiza is more of a quality all-rounder practical vehicle when compared to the Clio Cup. Only thing going for the Clio imho is reasonable looks.
Neil talk to me i am far more intresting than most.:repuke: . Dont ever leave us mate, i never get any good post on a morning (postman type) i totally depend on you talking bollocks to cheer me up before the daily grind of work.:p
bluenose172
15-07-2003, 21:06
That was a 50MPH impact into a car that had pulled out onto him! I've seen a few rolled Cups too, both didn't look too bad, ie, very survivable! They are very strong cars.
WileEcoyote
16-07-2003, 09:29
i'll race someone in they're chipped or otherwise Clio cup 172 et al!!
I'd be interested to see them pull away from me in my Cupra R:D :D
bring em on
I'll even give them a head Start (Although i won't bother if they're on slicks etc etc!)
Can't do 1/4 miles though as i cant get the car off the line for toffee:redface:
Rolling start from 10 mph anyone
WileEcoyote,
i'll race someone in they're chipped or otherwise Clio cup 172 et al!!
I'd be interested to see them pull away from me in my Cupra R
bring em on
I'll even give them a head Start (Although i won't bother if they're on slicks etc etc!)
Can't do 1/4 miles though as i cant get the car off the line for toffee
Rolling start from 10 mph anyone ..
COYOTE , my money is with the Cupra R !!:devil:
Is it a standard cupra r. Where ya from Mr Coyote.
bluenose172
16-07-2003, 17:20
"i'll race someone in they're chipped or otherwise Clio cup 172 et al!!"
I've already conducted that experiment and know the result already!
Cupra R lost?, seems a bit slower between 60 - 100 according mag reviews
The mighty Clio wins again!
dave;)
My Ibiza has a 4 star crash rating as well.
Although tests are carried out on the base model 1.2 which has different pre-tensioners on the seat belts and doesn't feature side airbags.
WileEcoyote
17-07-2003, 12:30
from Hertfordshire!
not travelling to scotland though!
Already tested against
2 civic Type R's and one RS focus (the result against that was surprising to me!)
No problems each time
A friend on one of the civic type R drivers, responded on here, most upset!!!!
Bog standard Cupra R
I'll give the 172 (not too mucked about with!) a head start and i'll place a fair bet that i'll be up to their bumper by 100 without problems (as long as its not wet!)
Don't get me wrong, the 172's a nice nippy little motor but its nearly 40hp down!!! whatever the magazine figures say!
Bluenose172, how many miles did the R have on it when you did this test?! compared to the 172?
WileE
chromeless
20-07-2003, 01:13
My impressions of the clio cup's engine were :
Reasonable top end (though it's no iVtec)
Gutless at low revs
I have to say it felt 'nippy' (but no more) until it got up to the higher revs. And then the band felt disappointingly small. I'm willing to put this partly down to a new engine, but even so...
The high revving thing is done so much better by the civic IMHO.
It was a nice car, tidy handling, but I really think it compares best to a saxo vts in terms of driving experience (and build) - not an insult IMHO.
The figures do show it to be a quick car (though it didn't feel it, despite the sharp throttle response), but I felt that for real world driving you'd get caught out and frustrated too often - much like the civic.
Oh, absolutely terrible clutch bite too...almost impossible to drive smoothly - and this coming from 2 years of experience with a 'kangarooing' CTR ;o)
And if 0-100 is all you're interested in, why the hell did you buy a clio? There are so many cars that do it so much better - why not enjoy the car as it was intended...take it to a track (with some corners) and stop telling everyone here how it's 0.00000x seconds faster to XXX mph - i.e. a car length at licence losing speeds...whoop.
Originally posted by chromeless
My impressions of the clio cup's engine were :
Reasonable top end (though it's no iVtec)
Gutless at low revs
I have to say it felt 'nippy' (but no more) until it got up to the higher revs. And then the band felt disappointingly small. I'm willing to put this partly down to a new engine, but even so...
The high revving thing is done so much better by the civic IMHO.
It was a nice car, tidy handling, but I really think it compares best to a saxo vts in terms of driving experience (and build) - not an insult IMHO.
The figures do show it to be a quick car (though it didn't feel it, despite the sharp throttle response), but I felt that for real world driving you'd get caught out and frustrated too often - much like the civic.
Oh, absolutely terrible clutch bite too...almost impossible to drive smoothly - and this coming from 2 years of experience with a 'kangarooing' CTR ;o)
And if 0-100 is all you're interested in, why the hell did you buy a clio? There are so many cars that do it so much better - why not enjoy the car as it was intended...take it to a track (with some corners) and stop telling everyone here how it's 0.00000x seconds faster to XXX mph - i.e. a car length at licence losing speeds...whoop.
Clio Cup no low end power?:eek: Are you mad? My Cup pulls from 2 k every bit as hard as the Cupra R Leon, this is backed up with the fact it can do 30-70 in low 6's (mines slighty lower) I have driven the Cup 5 k miles and the Cupra R just over 1 k miles so have had a bit more experience than just a test drive.:cheers:
Originally posted by WileEcoyote
from Hertfordshire!
not travelling to scotland though!
Already tested against
2 civic Type R's and one RS focus (the result against that was surprising to me!)
No problems each time
A friend on one of the civic type R drivers, responded on here, most upset!!!!
Bog standard Cupra R
I'll give the 172 (not too mucked about with!) a head start and i'll place a fair bet that i'll be up to their bumper by 100 without problems (as long as its not wet!)
Don't get me wrong, the 172's a nice nippy little motor but its nearly 40hp down!!! whatever the magazine figures say!
Bluenose172, how many miles did the R have on it when you did this test?! compared to the 172?
WileE
Wile nice little story there m8, but we have actaully raced the 172 vs R and Cup vs R so know the results in the real world and if you gave a 172 a head start from 0-100 you wouldnt be anywhere near its bumper. :cheers:
Saying all that tho I usually pick the Cupra R to drive when the Cup and R are side by side on the drive(maybe because its newer and a novelty but it is a class car)
WileEcoyote
23-07-2003, 09:34
Read the post again son!
I said "I'LL EVEN GIVE THEM A HEAD START!!!!!"
or if that's a little difficult to understand bring the cup/172 etc etc
i'll let it go first and i'll promise that i'll catch up!
you've driven a cup against an R with only 1K on the engine!!!!!!!
I ran my R in until 1000 miles!!
Hardly an equal comparison now is it! try the same in 5000 miles time
The clio is a great little car, but isn't in the same league as the Cupra R, Civic Type R, Focus RS, Alfa GTA etc etc
you seem a little obsessed with attempting to prove that you clio is faster then XXXX car
If you have access to an R, try driving it after 5000 miles on a tank of Optimax, next to your Clio 172 etc then come back and report your findings :cheers:
WileE
chromeless
23-07-2003, 10:28
At least you're willing to talk from experience...
However, I have no bias...have a CTR, am getting an LCR possibly be aquiring a Cup or 172 soon.
in my experience - as I said - even compared to the civic, it's low end grunt just didn't make up for the lack of high end fzz
My girlfiend even commented that the 172 she'd previously driven felt quicker - so like I said perhaps the engine was still tight.
In engine terms at least, comparisons with the civic are not going to put the clio top of my list of favourites, but potentially when time has dimmed the fond memories of the ep3 unit I'll be more enthusiastic about the Clio. If it's the high reving thing you want get a Civic, if it's the turbo you want get a Cupra R, and if it's a back to basics hot hatch with light weight and a not-too-cammy engine, then get a Cup. And if it's qtr miles/0-100's get an Evo ... infact DO at least try an evo if you haven't because it demolishes these cars quite comprehensively in all performance respects - and would really put the performance differences you're all hung up about into context (i.e. they're so small as to be all but irrelevant).
You've also hit upon why I would choose (and indeed have) the Leon over the other two hatches - it makes for a much more apealing day-to-day drive - with real-world performance that is so much easier to extract that the other two. Unless absolutely thrashing the other two the Leon is quicker - again, in my experience - in the Civic at least that means being wrong footed on too many occasions, the impression of the Cup was that it would be the same. All IMHO of course.
All that aside, my girlfriend may be getting either a Cup or a 172 soon (company car...), so I'll be better able to say what it's like with 5k on it.
Originally posted by WileEcoyote
Read the post again son!
I said "I'LL EVEN GIVE THEM A HEAD START!!!!!"
or if that's a little difficult to understand bring the cup/172 etc etc
i'll let it go first and i'll promise that i'll catch up!
you've driven a cup against an R with only 1K on the engine!!!!!!!
I ran my R in until 1000 miles!!
Hardly an equal comparison now is it! try the same in 5000 miles time
The clio is a great little car, but isn't in the same league as the Cupra R, Civic Type R, Focus RS, Alfa GTA etc etc
you seem a little obsessed with attempting to prove that you clio is faster then XXXX car
If you have access to an R, try driving it after 5000 miles on a tank of Optimax, next to your Clio 172 etc then come back and report your findings :cheers:
WileE
It's now done 3500 miles (in 4 weeks) and it hasn’t made any difference, the car has only been run on optimax from day one. You really are deluded if you think a side-by-side race 0-100 you give the Cup a head start you will catch it up by 100?:confused: I am talking from experience and you are talking bollocks, says it all don't it.
:cheers:
Originally posted by chromeless
At least you're willing to talk from experience...
However, I have no bias...have a CTR, am getting an LCR possibly be aquiring a Cup or 172 soon.
in my experience - as I said - even compared to the civic, it's low end grunt just didn't make up for the lack of high end fzz
My girlfiend even commented that the 172 she'd previously driven felt quicker - so like I said perhaps the engine was still tight.
In engine terms at least, comparisons with the civic are not going to put the clio top of my list of favourites, but potentially when time has dimmed the fond memories of the ep3 unit I'll be more enthusiastic about the Clio. If it's the high reving thing you want get a Civic, if it's the turbo you want get a Cupra R, and if it's a back to basics hot hatch with light weight and a not-too-cammy engine, then get a Cup. And if it's qtr miles/0-100's get an Evo ... infact DO at least try an evo if you haven't because it demolishes these cars quite comprehensively in all performance respects - and would really put the performance differences you're all hung up about into context (i.e. they're so small as to be all but irrelevant).
You've also hit upon why I would choose (and indeed have) the Leon over the other two hatches - it makes for a much more apealing day-to-day drive - with real-world performance that is so much easier to extract that the other two. Unless absolutely thrashing the other two the Leon is quicker - again, in my experience - in the Civic at least that means being wrong footed on too many occasions, the impression of the Cup was that it would be the same. All IMHO of course.
All that aside, my girlfriend may be getting either a Cup or a 172 soon (company car...), so I'll be better able to say what it's like with 5k on it.
Never meant to question your choice, if I was buying my car again I think it would be a Cupra R (chipped tho).
WileEcoyote
24-07-2003, 13:10
Originally posted by Neil82
It's now done 3500 miles (in 4 weeks) and it hasn’t made any difference, the car has only been run on optimax from day one. You really are deluded if you think a side-by-side race 0-100 you give the Cup a head start you will catch it up by 100?:confused: I am talking from experience and you are talking bollocks, says it all don't it.
:cheers:
Interesting;
your are unable to have a discussion without it turning into abuse! LOL shame really, i was hoping to have a discussion with adults!
As for delussionary feelings, are these the same ones, as when you used to claim that your primera Sri was a world beater of a car:confused:
your experience is hardly scientifica car with 1K and a car with 5K, especially seeing as the car in question isn't yours!
I drive mine about 80 miles a day
i've had the odd fun battle on clear roads against many other so called hot hatches (i say so called, because all of them, Cupra R included aren't particularly that fast in the big scheme of things! try a TVR Griffith if you want fast!)
2 Civic Type R's, (one of which's owner responded on hear i think)
and a Focus RS can testify to the pace of the R!!
If the Clio is as quick or quicker then them, then....
I obviously stand corrected:p
Am i right in thinking that the cup has no more power then an ordinary 172?
WileE
Originally posted by WileEcoyote
Interesting;
your are unable to have a discussion without it turning into abuse! LOL shame really, i was hoping to have a discussion with adults!
As for delussionary feelings, are these the same ones, as when you used to claim that your primera Sri was a world beater of a car:confused:
your experience is hardly scientifica car with 1K and a car with 5K, especially seeing as the car in question isn't yours!
I drive mine about 80 miles a day
i've had the odd fun battle on clear roads against many other so called hot hatches (i say so called, because all of them, Cupra R included aren't particularly that fast in the big scheme of things! try a TVR Griffith if you want fast!)
2 Civic Type R's, (one of which's owner responded on hear i think)
and a Focus RS can testify to the pace of the R!!
If the Clio is as quick or quicker then them, then....
I obviously stand corrected:p
Am i right in thinking that the cup has no more power then an ordinary 172?
WileE
Son, we will just agree to disagree. But I really can't see why your arguing with me about which is faster considering I have access to both cars every day:confused: :confused: :confused:
mark sheerin
24-07-2003, 19:39
I put this thread up to encourage people to revo...however like another thread (what have you been keeping up with and beating) its ended up as a p1ssing contest...
anyone else had the revo demo...to get back on topic...:)
bluenose172
24-07-2003, 21:58
I honestly don't see why you are so disbelieving. Yes you are right we did test the cars when the R had 1000 miles on it as you keep referring to. However we have tested them since many times with the results are no different. I can honestly say that Neil's car would beat the Cupra R up to 100 and over the 1/4 mile.
2 Civic Type R's, (one of which's owner responded on hear i think)
and a Focus RS can testify to the pace of the R!!
If the Clio is as quick or quicker then them, then....
On the road in everyday situations, if you were ready for them, there would be very little difference between the cars!
I'm not by any matter of means saying the R is slow, hell I pushed, and I mean pushed, a Cooper S up the road the other night. As well as staying with a Porsche Boxster up to 115!
172 Cup Power to weight ratio = 170BHP/tonne!
Cupra R Power to weight ratio = 156Bhp/tonne!
I was stuck on a boxster's tail pipes till 135/140mph and it was an s model(boxster s). So it looks like chipped ibiza's are faster that 172/cups. Because you only held on till 115mph. So on theses facts i must be faster.
But there again maybe the one you were behind was not intrested in a race.
Maybe all cars perform diff, even the same makes and models, even when modified?.
bluenose172
24-07-2003, 22:10
I was in the R, don't even get me started on cipped Ibiza's!;)
I say 115, coz I backed off at that speed, probably would have stuck to him longer, but I like my license and my freedom!
well there's no need to argue, the fiat coupe wins, beats all of these cars!
lol:D
ps - Mark, if there was going to be a pissing contest, i would win!;)
dave
How do make that out, you drive a tdci mondeo, :p :p :p :D :D :D .
How do make that out, you drive a tdci mondeo
well, all these fast diesel cars on here people go on about that can beat everything in sight, so the mondeo tdci must win! lol;)
dave
I did not boost at all today and I drove 20 miles :mad:
Originally posted by vibrio
I did not boost at all today and I drove 20 miles :mad:
Yeah you should get that looked at, those Fiats aren't very reliable are they? ;)
There a very similar thread on the seat enthusiasts site, Dave has done the same thing, tell everyone how fast his 20vt coupe is. I will give Dave this they are a rare car really. Last time i saw one ot was on the back of a low loader. :p :devil: :devil: ;) :D
its quite plain to see, the guy or gal was trying to keep the milage down on the car cos its so rare!, improve its longterm value.
just trying spread the word!
lol
dave:D
mark sheerin
26-07-2003, 18:22
wot no matter how boring you get...lol
You can quote figures all day long Dave but you can't take away the fact that my revo'd cupra overtook a Fiat Coupe 20vt...and boy did the owner look cheesed off and well p1ssed....was it you...lol
I have done two now. Not a problem.
Booohoooo Dave, go cry on the clio forum!!!!!!!!!!!!!.:D
Well...I'm afraid I was done by a Clio Cup today. Yep - tis true. I hang my head in shame....
Peter
PS: Well...in fairness - I had to take that slip road, whilst he zoomed past me on the motorway - it was my junction :p
PPS: took him a long time to catch up. I didn't realise I'd left him that far behind :D
But neil and the clio posse reckon clio cups can match a 1000bhp skyline up to 200mph. Best of all dont mess with a fiat coupe 20vt, i heard they can pull more "G" than the space shuttle. Ask Dave.:laff1:.
Originally posted by rhumber
Yeah you should get that looked at, those Fiats aren't very reliable are they? ;)
oh thats nasty should have said I was driving in 30mph limits :mad:
You guys are living in a sad little dream world.
the sad fact is that ive not seen any facts proving your chiped
cupra's are faster, anyone got 1/4 times, etc?
if i chipped my car you be looking at 280bhp, so who's going to win then?
dave
Keyword IF.
IF i Jabba IhI'd mine to 330bhp who would win then Dave.:D :p
Originally posted by Madmile
Keyword IF.
IF i Jabba IhI'd mine to 330bhp who would win then Dave.:D :p
Hehehe is this still going on! Madmile what IF (how sad is this argument) Dave fitted a bigger turbo to his car, FMIC, cams, exhaust?? U think a 330 hp Cupra would beat it?
Theres no chance he would win, his fiat would self destruct.
And it was me who pointed out the what if's.:)
mark sheerin
27-07-2003, 20:26
Originally posted by dave
You guys are living in a sad little dream world.
dave
lol...I must have been dreaming when I overtook one Dave...ha ha..
mind you the driver of the Fiat Coupe 20vt was the one havibg the NIGHTMARE....lol
hahahahahahahahahaah:D
Originally posted by Madmile
Theres no chance he would win, his fiat would self destruct.
And it was me who pointed out the what if's.:)
no I feel you know nothign about the Coupe engine. 330 is easy to get and reliable if done properly.
mark sheerin
27-07-2003, 20:46
Is the FIAT coupe a current model..I'd like to buy one..where can I get one Dave?
Or is it an old model like the Sierra RS500 or the Escort RS Turbo or the RS200 or the Ferrari 456gt or the Lamborghini Countach or any other no longer made car that would have been quicker than a std Cupra........
Lancia Thema Turbo or Corrado VR6 anyone?
Now what current FIATs are faster than a Cupra Dave....a Stilo..HAhahahahahahah or multipla perhaps...?? or phnaarr a Punto HGT??? Sciento anyone..hahahahahahhah....lol
so, I see, cant come up with any facts 1/4 time, etc, so have to resort to slaging off the fiat brand, etc, which i know some of there efforts are poor, but until i see some facts, then your stories of coupe bashing will be taken with pinch of salt!
dave
mark sheerin
27-07-2003, 22:54
Originally posted by dave
so, I see, cant come up with any facts 1/4 time, etc, so have to resort to slaging off the fiat brand, etc, which i know some of there efforts are poor, but until i see some facts, then your stories of coupe bashing will be taken with pinch of salt!
dave
No seriously its just fun....well at least I'm having fun now that I've decided to play along with the p1ssing contest...:)
1/4 mile times should be somewhere around the 14.9 to 15.5 seconds mark with 100 coming up in around 16.5 seconds for my revo'd cupra having a power to weight better than a std Cupra R.
These figures may be slower than a FIAT coupe 20vt....don't really care...
maybe 60-100 is two seconds faster in a Fiat coupe 20vt...but on the real roads if I put my foot to the floor two seconds before the Fiat driver then his advantage is lost....
so to the Fiat Coupe 20vt driver I overtook here's a message...
'snooze you lose'.....lol
Originally posted by dave
so, I see, cant come up with any facts 1/4 time, etc, so have to resort to slaging off the fiat brand, etc, which i know some of there efforts are poor, but until i see some facts, then your stories of coupe bashing will be taken with pinch of salt!
dave
Dave what did you do on the 1/4 mile again? Someone at York today with a Cup with the same mods as mine did a 14.5 and his brother who also has a Cup (with de-cat, viper, r sport chip, stripped, semi slicks although he only does 2.2 60 fts) did a 14.0! :D Will be interesting to see what Madmille and his m8s do in a couple of weeks.
Mark - only one thing to say, "Thankyou" ;)
Neil - not had my car up 1/4 mile yet, but 14.5 secs seem to be the mag figs
there was some coupe owners at york today, a standard 20vt coupe, managed a 14.4 secs 1/4, some chipped ones 14.1/14.2, some chipped ones have managed 13.7 on other york outings.
when you going to crail next?, iam up for a run, see what i can pull up strip
dave
How come neil you pick the best possible results. I have seen the cliosport site. And you have made no mention of the majority of cars making 15 second qtrs and the ones doing 16 sec qtrs. I could get all the modded Ibiza times together and the fastest one would still beat all your clio times. I know my car is quicker than either a clio172 or cup. So i dont care what u say. What does a qtr mile prove!. That you have less power and torque so it is easier to get the power down. Lets agree to disagree, and leave it at that. I am happy with what i bought, and it looks like you and dave are too.:D
Oh look what happend to a clio cup at York, and theres lots more like it. 14.0secs?????? slicks, and stripped out no doubt.
First time for me:
1st Race..silver 172 (dogmaul?) 15.2...win
2nd 2.0 16v Nova saloon. 15.4...win
3rd std Cup. 15.2...loss.(Think IK has caused some loss of power in 2nd gear)
4th My m8s chipped Audi 1.8 T 15.1....loss
Special mention to my girlfriend Nic...first time,one run...15.4!
Altogether top night camping and decent race day(apart from the fecking long waits between runs!)
Lost to a chipped 1.8t audi. And they weigh more than a Ibiza.
:laff1: get real neil.
Originally posted by mark sheerin
Is the FIAT coupe a current model..I'd like to buy one..where can I get one Dave?
Or is it an old model like the Sierra RS500 or the Escort RS Turbo or the RS200 or the Ferrari 456gt or the Lamborghini Countach or any other no longer made car that would have been quicker than a std Cupra........
Lancia Thema Turbo or Corrado VR6 anyone?
Now what current FIATs are faster than a Cupra Dave....a Stilo..HAhahahahahahah or multipla perhaps...?? or phnaarr a Punto HGT??? Sciento anyone..hahahahahahhah....lol
Cause Fiat can't make fast cars anymore. the goits
Originally posted by Madmile
How come neil you pick the best possible results. I have seen the cliosport site. And you have made no mention of the majority of cars making 15 second qtrs and the ones doing 16 sec qtrs. I could get all the modded Ibiza times together and the fastest one would still beat all your clio times. I know my car is quicker than either a clio172 or cup. So i dont care what u say. What does a qtr mile prove!. That you have less power and torque so it is easier to get the power down. Lets agree to disagree, and leave it at that. I am happy with what i bought, and it looks like you and dave are too.:D
Oh look what happend to a clio cup at York, and theres lots more like it. 14.0secs?????? slicks, and stripped out no doubt.
First time for me:
1st Race..silver 172 (dogmaul?) 15.2...win
2nd 2.0 16v Nova saloon. 15.4...win
3rd std Cup. 15.2...loss.(Think IK has caused some loss of power in 2nd gear)
4th My m8s chipped Audi 1.8 T 15.1....loss
Special mention to my girlfriend Nic...first time,one run...15.4!
Altogether top night camping and decent race day(apart from the fecking long waits between runs!)
Lost to a chipped 1.8t audi. And they weigh more than a Ibiza.
:laff1: get real neil.
york is very suspect worse than crail :D
1st: 15.866
2nd: 15.502
3rd: 15.351
4th: 15.325
That's with a totally standard Mk2 172. First time I've ever had a go so I'm chuffed to bits with those times.
Look Neil another
:D .
And to sum it up, in a clio memebers own words.
i'm sure there needed to be some official registering of the times with cliosport
that was all the times can be added to the members area on main website
but either way
most of the 172's were running mid 15's
the cups were pulling low 15's and high 14's
the 2.0 valvers were quick (didn't see too many timing slips though)
me and fred pulled low 18's
RSi's were about 17's
and valvers were in the region of 16's
oh, the v6 in 13's
i hope that is all correct.
Madmille I took the times of the 2 modded cups (like mine) and they were doing some seriously quick times 14.0@98 mph for Timo:D The 172 times u quote are shite but I dont own a 172, you ...:D At the end of the day its down to the driver if i was in any of those 172's id run about 15.0-15.2 To put it into perspective there were 2 woman owners there in their 172's and they were running low/mid 16's says it all really doesnt it!
Be fair neil, they are the times in black and white. You had a few cars in the 14sec region but not the majority the second post i put up says it all. Not slagging the car or the drivers. But lets keep it real. Most cups were high 14's low 15's good times but i aint shitting myself just yet. :) :cheers: .
Originally posted by Madmile
Be fair neil, they are the times in black and white. You had a few cars in the 14sec region but not the majority the second post i put up says it all. Not slagging the car or the drivers. But lets keep it real. Most cups were high 14's low 15's good times but i aint shitting myself just yet. :) :cheers: .
Hehe I dont CARE what they run, im talking about what my car can do.... Also those Cups are standard, a standard Cupra runs low 16's tops lol
Mad are you and a few m8's going to York soon? I remember you mentioning something.
Thats a fair point neil, but at they end of the day you say a chipped cupra is no match for a cup. But the figures prove they are and more. I said i could beat clio cups and i have and ctr's. I aint raced yours, maybe i raced stnd ctr's and cups. So what i have said is true m8.
P.S I love you neil, never leave me....:p
Trying to get it sorted but you know what its like. If i do i would love you to come with some 172's/cups. The more the better, and there's nothing wrong with a little healthy friendly competition.
May our love never end...
Originally posted by Madmile
Thats a fair point neil, but at they end of the day you say a chipped cupra is no match for a cup. But the figures prove they are and more. I said i could beat clio cups and i have and ctr's. I aint raced yours, maybe i raced stnd ctr's and cups. So what i have said is true m8.
P.S I love you neil, never leave me....:p
Mad i never said a chipped Cupra is no match for a Cup lol (or did I hehe canny mind) they are very equal and I rekon its down to the driver. Afterall I was a ball hair from buying a Ibiza cupra R and think they are brilliant when chipped (driven my pals 195 hp one) It just bugs me when ppl come on and talk BS about races they have had on the roads with ppl they dont know... When I have raced a pal's 195 hp one and had the edge on him when I was standard, same goes for the guy thats arguing with me about Cup Vs Cupra R Leon .... My dads got a Cupra R Leon and I drive it every day but he stil argues with me about which is quicker:confused.
P.S Lets let this thread die, but I will be back.
Dont leave neil, come to York with the smoggies. U may even enjoy it...
Oh well, Dave where are you? Fiat 20vt put more smoke out than Dot Cotton.:D
Going now thanks all.:cry:
Originally posted by Neil82
Hehe I dont CARE what they run, im talking about what my car can do.... Also those Cups are standard, a standard Cupra runs low 16's tops lol
Neil, my Cupra ran 15.4's standard. 14.904 is my fastest in chipped mode.
Madmile - i'll vouch the Neils Cup is quick. I have the chipped cupra he mentioned earlier and it most certianly isn't f*cked as I seem to recall you saying.
Graeme
My point is. Yes neils car may be quick but you can't judge all cars by one individual motor. So for him to say cups are quicker than chipped cupra's is unfair. The proof is in the times mentioned previously. You cant come on here and say the cups were doing 14seconds dead or better when the majority WERE NOT!!.
He says his car is quicker than yours, what happens from 30-140mph does he pull away.:cheers:
Madmile - yes, 30-70 he does start to eak out a lead but its only very slight. Never raced him from a standing start so cant comment on that. If we race its normally a rolling start from 30/40mph up to 100ish (private roads of course ;)) and he just has the edge (this was when his car was standard, not raced him with the mods hes done).
I quite agree with you though that he has quoted all the best times for the cups/172's and therefore not really giving a true reflection but we can be safe in the knowledge that Bill's (badger5) Ibiza would be quicker than his (by some distance) therefore, going by the theories mentioned earlier, Beeza's are obviously quicker :p :D
Hehe. All the fun of the fair!!!
Graeme
The reason i asked about the speeds you raced at on a private track. Is because i find that when racing the ctr, and cup, once i just went to 4th and floored it, this was the point i started to make the gap 4th and 5th. I was looking in the rear view mirror waiting for the v-tech to start doing its thing, and it never happened. Neil will say that it would have happened, but i would have thought it would have been in the v-tech zone by 145mph. I really think if you went past 100/110mph on your test track you would beat him. Also i never go past 6000rpm. Its a waste of time i try and keep the boost coming. Try it but only on your private test track...:cheers:
Dave where are you? Fiat 20vt put more smoke out than Dot Cotton
up north, not far from neil/meeko
not noticed the smoke myself, dont see many coupe on road, to see smoke, but i can believe it, cos ive shares in mobile 1 oil, car uses about 1L/1000miles, which is totaly normal, states in fiat coupe handbook.
dave
mark sheerin
28-07-2003, 23:32
Originally posted by dave
up north, not far from neil/meeko
not noticed the smoke myself, dont see many coupe on road, to see smoke, but i can believe it, cos ive shares in mobile 1 oil, car uses about 1L/1000miles, which is totaly normal, states in fiat coupe handbook.
dave
My first sports car was a spiritual ancestor to your car Dave
Lancia Beta Coupe
Still one of the best handling cars I ever owned and its DOHC engine used to go through a litre a week ...:(
course it didn't have the FIAT coupe's grunt but with unusually double wishbone suspension all round and about as heavy as a MK1 fiesta it handled like a rally car...but it would bite hard if you got it wrong...
Originally posted by mark sheerin
...but it would bite hard if you got it wrong...
Like my girlfriend :D
Madmile - when I raced Neil in the past I was revving up to about 7k whereas now I keep in more in the power band by shifitng up at 5.8k like you suggest. Not raced him when I've driven like this but since I've started doing so I can feel that the car is quicker than if you wait to 7k to shift up. Reckon he would still have the edge though as he has now got the mods on his motor but I'm going to be tinkering around with my IC to get a better flow of air to it and possibly and waterspray to it aswell so, that should release a bit more power.
Quick question for anyone reading this... How much work would be involved in putting the standard beeza IC to the front??? There is plenty of room there and obviously it'll get more air - the only hurdle I can see is the piping - Any ideas folks?
Graeme
I think you would beat him, use your private track and find out. The position of the standard intercooler is an issue, but i would have thought the size would be more important. Star performance do there front mounted intercooler £599 all in. A new i/c has just been finish all in the kit is £390/400. If you are handy you could fit it yourself. It reduces temps quite a lot.:cheers:
:redface:
Message posted by Rich-D on 29 July 2003 at 5:52pm - IP Logged
Rich-D
ClioSport Member
'03 Clio Cup
05 July 2002
1559 Posts
Quote: Originally posted by Neil82cup on 29 July 2003
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Timo next time you go can you do a couple of runs without the 15" semi slicks, really want to see what you can do. When I tell ppl on other forums what times u get they always use the slicks as the excuse for it being so fast!
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He's actually got full slicks now...
But I'd also love to see what he can run with normal road tyres!
Message posted by Neil82cup on 29 July 2003 at 5:55pm - IP Logged
Neil82cup
Forum User
Cup
28 December 2002
398 Posts
Oh right! No wonder he was doing 14.0 then!
Oh neil you have made a blunder hahahahhahahahahahah.!!!!
:D
Originally posted by Madmile
:redface:
Message posted by Rich-D on 29 July 2003 at 5:52pm - IP Logged
Rich-D
ClioSport Member
'03 Clio Cup
05 July 2002
1559 Posts
Quote: Originally posted by Neil82cup on 29 July 2003
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Timo next time you go can you do a couple of runs without the 15" semi slicks, really want to see what you can do. When I tell ppl on other forums what times u get they always use the slicks as the excuse for it being so fast!
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He's actually got full slicks now...
But I'd also love to see what he can run with normal road tyres!
Message posted by Neil82cup on 29 July 2003 at 5:55pm - IP Logged
Neil82cup
Forum User
Cup
28 December 2002
398 Posts
Oh right! No wonder he was doing 14.0 then!
Oh neil you have made a blunder hahahahhahahahahahah.!!!!
:D
He was doing 14.2's before with semi road legal slicks and 2.3 60 ft (same as mine) Its really hard to get the heat in those slicks/semi slicks unless u got 300 hp to do a burn out with before you start!:D With normal road tyres it would still easily beat a chipped cupra tho.
Mad I will see if Meeko wants to have a wee 0-100 race with me on video :D
The stats are 195 hp 240 lft Vs 185 hp 155 lft (guestimates for my car) 1120 kg vs 1020 kg :D
Why stop at a 100mph, go the whole hogg m8. But only on your private test track. Dont do anything silly.
I have only been pulling your leg neil, i am sure your car is as quick as you say. I wont post on this thread anymore i dont want anyone taking it to heart.
:cheers:
Mad just checked his 60 ft times and they aint any better than the others running 14's on his 14.0 he did a 2.2 (which is pretty good) but the others when he was doing 14.2 etc he was doing 2.3 (average):D
Civic Type R Owners Forum Index -> General Chat
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G.
Honda NSX
Joined: 18 Mar 2003
Posts: 467
Location: Essex
Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2003 3:49 pm Post subject: 5th gear descovery +1 today CTR/RS/Leon Test
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For those of you who havent seen it and case there are other ppl at home today the episode of 5th gear where Tiff hammers the CTR around Anglesea is on at 4.30. It's the comparison with the Leon and the Focus, he also has the Mini Cooper S and the Clio Cup but dosent bother racing em as they werent up to the job (his words).
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ohio goziemas CTR 09075
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