View Full Version : Is REVO detectable by dealers??
I was talking to the salesman at NE Seat and he reckons that Revo is instantly detectable at service, even when deactivated using the controller. I told him I know people who have it and hasn't been detected, but he simply said "There's no way we wouldn't see it".
He was talking out of his @rse about a lot of things, so this was probably cr@p too, but just made me think as my next car will be a Leon Cupra with HUSH Revo HUSH.
Just ask him to turn round, bend over and speak more clearly, because that's where he was talking out of!
My dealer did a quick check on my car the other day with the software turned on and I specifically asked him to see if he could see anything on the diagnostics, he couldn't. And he knows the software is on there!
kinghorna
29-07-2003, 03:42
Garth
I think your dealer was up for a fight and you were the next guy to come through the door, that or realy he works for Ford
Garth,I will send you a pm matey-I think I know what your SEAT dealer is on about!
I don't want to stir up a hornets nest on here.
the chip and sps1 are not detectable but as soon as sps2 and 3 are added and the immobaliser are activated it then comes visible, dont no why but this came from the mouth of the guys at dub sport
Revo Kev
29-07-2003, 11:43
the chip and sps1 are not detectable but as soon as sps2 and 3 are added and the immobaliser are activated it then comes visible, dont no why but this came from the mouth of the guys at dub sport
Don't know where they got this from but it isn't the case, I'll have another chat with them to see what they're on about!:confused:
Revo Kev
29-07-2003, 11:45
Garth,I will send you a pm matey-I think I know what your SEAT dealer is on about!
Do you fancy emailing this to me? I'd be interested to know how it is deamed detectable?!
Originally posted by Revo Kev
Do you fancy emailing this to me? I'd be interested to know how it is deamed detectable?!
Heck i think we'd all like to know.
ibizacupra
29-07-2003, 12:02
Other chip tuners can tell of REVO demo's etc. There is a legacy, but not one you will find without the appropriate tools, and VAG-COM, 5051 etc are'nt those tools.
Bill
(as far as I know at least)
Originally posted by Revo Kev
Do you fancy emailing this to me? I'd be interested to know how it is deamed detectable?!
Easy Tiger,Ive never said it was "detectable" and I emailed this to you some 6 weeks ago with a few concerns I had.
You and Rich put these issues to bed when I was in there last time and ended my worries over the dealers finding the code,As you know ive been there bought the T-shirt so to speak!
the main reason for a private message was:
Garth,I will send you a pm matey-I think I know what your SEAT dealer is on about!
I don't want to stir up a hornets nest on here.
At the end of the day i'm more than happy with revo and the after service you offered me-top product-top company-top people.
Dan
Revo Kev
29-07-2003, 12:40
Thought that might have been the case, just wanted to make sure!;)
Neilr134
29-07-2003, 13:11
surely when the plug in the diagnostic equipment any change in boost or emmissions will become very obvious.
Surely it's only undetectable in so much as nobodys physically changed any chips.
ibizacupra
29-07-2003, 13:16
Originally posted by Neilr134
surely when the plug in the diagnostic equipment any change in boost or emmissions will become very obvious.
Surely it's only undetectable in so much as nobodys physically changed any chips.
If switched to stock mode how will it be any different?
If in performance mode and 'test driven', the performance will be a dead giveaway.
Emissions is irrelevent and not an issue.
Bill
Hmmm... don't they just have to stick an SP1 controller in and see if it works to determine that it's revo'd... :balloon:
Seems like it would be fairly easy to test it like that (or am I missing something)? Does the controller indicate that it has switched modes?
If so that must be an easy test of if it's revo'd or not.
I know of a pretty easy way to tell if a car is chipped. Drive it. Or drive it with a boost guage connected. U dont need any special tools to tell. Once you see 18-20 psi boost spike i think it would be pretty obvious, dont you think. Unless u have an adjustable boost controler that no one knows about. Thats what i reckon.:)
The truth is, if you look hard enough for anything you will eventually find it. It all depends on the ammount of effort you are willing to put into it.
RichardBW
29-07-2003, 14:20
Even if the dealer owned an SPS device it will still tell them jack if they plug it in and it bleeps. We thought of this one pre-release and made all SPS units bleep on stock/non-chipped cars.
Obviously if the dealer switched all cars to performance mode with their SPS and they did eventually find one with software they would be able to then tell on the roadtest. However do you think the dealer has the time to plug in to every car and roadtest to check for software upgrades? I doubt it as our own SEAT dealer takes three days to change a CV Joint, but thats another story I wont go into right now.
Originally posted by LDoR
The truth is, if you look hard enough for anything you will eventually find it. It all depends on the ammount of effort you are willing to put into it.
Not really. Lots of effort and money has been spent in pursuit of 2 things and still not detected: Saddam Hussain and Osmam Bin Laden.;) :p
EDIT: 1 more for luck - WMD:D Third time lucky for the USA perhaps?
ibizacupra
29-07-2003, 15:26
Originally posted by Cran
Hmmm... don't they just have to stick an SP1 controller in and see if it works to determine that it's revo'd... :balloon:
Seems like it would be fairly easy to test it like that (or am I missing something)? Does the controller indicate that it has switched modes?
If so that must be an easy test of if it's revo'd or not.
Ask yourself a question tho.... Do you think they're going to go out of their way to "look" for things?
Nope!
Unless they are looking for reasons to "void" a warranty claim, and in those cases a dealer in question would make all sorts of excuses to default on... real or imagined. All down to the dealerships in question. On a regular basis, there is no cause and no time for them to waste their time on this kind of stuff.
Bill
sportbilly
29-07-2003, 15:35
After reading this thread I agree with Bill, the only reason they would want to find out if your car is Revo'd is if they want to void a warranty claim and to be honest if you were having something replaced under warranty that is straight forward they would probably replace it anyway - if they dont fix it arn't they loosing money ?? Surely if a garage does a warranty claim they get money from SEAT to do it ... ?
Originally posted by ibizacupra
Ask yourself a question tho.... Do you think they're going to go out of their way to "look" for things?
Nope!
Unless they are looking for reasons to "void" a warranty claim, and in those cases a dealer in question would make all sorts of excuses to default on... real or imagined. All down to the dealerships in question. On a regular basis, there is no cause and no time for them to waste their time on this kind of stuff.
Bill
Biting my lip :eek:
why not just come out with it dan?
:confused: :rolleyes:
So are dealers allowed to use non standard tools to 'test' your car from third parties?
If i were in that situation of a dealer plugging 'anything' into my OBDII port without my knowledge I would be severely pissed.
3 days after being REVO'd a coil pack went bye bye, i didnt and still dont have a SPS to switch it back to stock- it went into the dealers in performance mode and nothing at all was thrown up or traced via the diag machine with any ref to it being fettled with. ;)
Ye, Dan i want to know now....????:eek:
I was under the impression anyway, that European Law prevents the warranty being nulified on a part unless the part affetced can be proven to have been damaged by said product being added.
Or indeed only invalidate those items directly affected by it.
Is this now not the case?
Coil Packs for instance was a problem caused by faulty parts supplied by VAG, can we not say they have invalidated their own warranty by fitting inferior parts that cause problems in the first place?
Has anyone heard of a chipped car that blew up its turbo because it was chipped, or more likely it blew someting up, because it was either ragged to destruction, or the part was simply faulty, in mass production its a common occurance for parts to fail, quality control is usually meant to pick these up before they reach the public.
However having seen how quality control works, and being manned by flawed human beings who make mistakes, or even flawed computers trained by flawed humans, then its hardly surprising the odd flawed part makes it onto peoples cars, so adding a greater risk of that part failing.
In my eyes if ive paid £xxxxx for a car, then im also buying some piece of mind with my warranty. But however you look at it, some dealers will flaunt law and decide not to honor a claim, so move onto the next dealer who is more aware of his commitment to his customers.
But as a footnote to my questioning and opinions, id simply say if your in anyway concerned with modifying your car, then dont. its not compulsury to be fitted with a chip, the cars are wonderful as they are. But they are extremly good when fettled with.
:devil:
ibizacupra
29-07-2003, 16:38
Originally posted by ZBOYD
some dealers will flaunt law and decide not to honor a claim,
Yep!
Thats true....
the variability in after sales service between dealers is staggering... Not a common service level by any means, and at the end of the day your only real contact with the brand... They mess you about, and you will dislike the brand as much as the dealer. True?
Maybe Merc do have the right idea then in reducing their dealer franchise numbers but making them larger 'stores'. Much easier to maintain a consistent level of customer care and service then.
No that didn't work all Merc succeeded in doing is pissing off lots of customers who didn't know where to get their cars serviced, traded, warrantied, whatever. The residuals of some of the models fell through the floor and we now drive VAG cars!
Originally posted by Saul
why not just come out with it dan?
Just so I make this clear from the off: the problem is with seat not revo!
Well basically a lot of people are 2nd guessing as to what would happen if the main dealer put an sps into your car and found the revo code,would it void your warrenty??
As you've probably guessed this happened to me,due to the dealer getting hold of an sps switch in one way or another when my car was in there for copious amounts of warrenty work over a 5 month period.(12 visits in all)
Other than the CC switch that was installed for when it was apr tuned,there is nothing that should raise alarm bells that the car is tuned other than the fact that it is heavily modified. This,no doubt had SEAT naturally assuming it was tuned,as "it has a,so it must have b"
the CC switch still functions as cruise control and there was no performance mods left on the vehicle other than the cat back exhaust when in at the dealers.
On the 10th visit I found out through a mate who works for the dealers in question,that they used an sps switch and took it for a test drive to prove it was tuned ,BUT(and heres the big but) they couldn't tell me it was tuned,as for the reasons mOrk has stated,it goes against SEAT's ethos.
This however was not the end of my car troubles(which are non-related to revo btw)and after the car refused to even budge on my drive I got it towed into the dealers again.
This time they tell me I need a new ecu.
Now the thing that gets me about this is the fact that they offered a new ecu straight away without any arguements,usually they will look at anything to point the finger at when the source of the problem in the first place was the Coilpack issue that they did'nt fix correctly the first time around and led to more and more problems.
I feel that they chose this as the fault so as I would no longer have the code as they where unable to prove it was tuned,and would have seat thinking that as I lied to them regarding the chip they would get one over on me
I said "do it" and when I turned up I thanked them for Finally sorting it and it turned out to be the case.
The car was promptly put up for sale,but after a change of heart and REVO kindly offering to reflash the code and datalog it for no extra charge as I hadn't really had any fun with revo I kept it.
The code is therefore not undetectable "if" you have the right tools as ive just demonstrated,but in my case they couldn't even act on it by telling me it was tuned.
I even have a boost gauge fitted so they must of seen the 19 psi boost level.
the crew at revo offered so much help with this problem and it is soley down to them why I still have the ibiza today and spending vast amounts of cash on it again.After service and help,advice has been A1 on revo's behalf,shame the same couldn't be said about SEAT.
DJ
SEAT UK Warrantee department give authorisation on reg plate details.
It's not up to the dealer, however it's worth noting that no Warrantee people work on Saturdays
Originally posted by Deejay
Just so I make this clear from the off: the problem is with seat not revo!
Well basically a lot of people are 2nd guessing as to what would happen if the main dealer put an sps into your car and found the revo code,would it void your warrenty??
As you've probably guessed this happened to me,due to the dealer getting hold of an sps switch in one way or another when my car was in there for copious amounts of warrenty work over a 5 month period.(12 visits in all)
Other than the CC switch that was installed for when it was apr tuned,there is nothing that should raise alarm bells that the car is tuned other than the fact that it is heavily modified. This,no doubt had SEAT naturally assuming it was tuned,as "it has a,so it must have b"
the CC switch still functions as cruise control and there was no performance mods left on the vehicle other than the cat back exhaust when in at the dealers.
On the 10th visit I found out through a mate who works for the dealers in question,that they used an sps switch and took it for a test drive to prove it was tuned ,BUT(and heres the big but) they couldn't tell me it was tuned,as for the reasons mOrk has stated,it goes against SEAT's ethos.
This however was not the end of my car troubles(which are non-related to revo btw)and after the car refused to even budge on my drive I got it towed into the dealers again.
This time they tell me I need a new ecu.
Now the thing that gets me about this is the fact that they offered a new ecu straight away without any arguements,usually they will look at anything to point the finger at when the source of the problem in the first place was the Coilpack issue that they did'nt fix correctly the first time around and led to more and more problems.
I feel that they chose this as the fault so as I would no longer have the code as they where unable to prove it was tuned,and would have seat thinking that as I lied to them regarding the chip they would get one over on me
I said "do it" and when I turned up I thanked them for Finally sorting it and it turned out to be the case.
The car was promptly put up for sale,but after a change of heart and REVO kindly offering to reflash the code and datalog it for no extra charge as I hadn't really had any fun with revo I kept it.
The code is therefore not undetectable "if" you have the right tools as ive just demonstrated,but in my case they couldn't even act on it by telling me it was tuned.
I even have a boost gauge fitted so they must of seen the 19 psi boost level.
the crew at revo offered so much help with this problem and it is soley down to them why I still have the ibiza today and spending vast amounts of cash on it again.After service and help,advice has been A1 on revo's behalf,shame the same couldn't be said about SEAT.
DJ
wasnt it your sps that you left in the car?
and hadnt you already told them it had been tuned?
we all (NW) know that lookers are pants, but at least you got your car fixed.
:cheers:
Originally posted by Saul
wasnt it your sps that you left in the car?
and hadnt you already told them it had been tuned?
we all (NW) know that lookers are pants, but at least you got your car fixed.
:cheers:
i) no,just to clear this up,it was left in the car locked away when it was being serviced at a different dealers by mistake.
ii)no-ive never told SEAT it is tuned,sure enough they know it is,but only through looking on here and through what ive just explained.
iii)yer your telling me,Dan reaches for the nearest piece of timber.
VAG dealers are NOT blind to the fact that aftermarket tuners exist,they train their mechanics on what to look for!
RichardBW
29-07-2003, 20:24
they train their mechanics on what to look for!
From what I see of the state of SEAT retailers I am not sure they train technicians at all.
I know there may be some good SEAT techs out there but my general opinion of the dealers is very poor. If it was not for the fact we have a SEAT car under warranty I would dearly love not to have to visit my SEAT dealer ever again. Nothing against the cars, just the staff they seem to employ.
I am constantly left speachless by some of the crap they spout when handing back a car. Also been given back a car with more faults than when it went in:confused:
Anyway my rant over.
If the dealers do train techs to detect software/chips, I would suggest they train them to first follow a service schedule sheet;) and then how to operate a tyre pressure gauge. This would be more beneficial to anyone owning a SEAT.
Ouch.
True though. If you think you're safe because the dealer has a big SEAT, VW, Ford etc etc sign outside, you're sadly wrong.
Why do you think VAG Dealers have done so badly in the JD Power surveys...(and we all know that there are some VERY good dealers raising the overall standard)?
Usually, the smaller privately owned places do a better job. They actually know the cars they work on, and have a reputation to uphold.
Let's face it, it's we only go to main dealers to keep the warranty up to date and perhaps to keep a main dealer stamp in the service book. The manufacturers know this. It's just a big scam.
Originally posted by Revo Richard
From what I see of the state of SEAT retailers I am not sure they train technicians at all.
I know there may be some good SEAT techs out there but my general opinion of the dealers is very poor. If it was not for the fact we have a SEAT car under warranty I would dearly love not to have to visit my SEAT dealer ever again. Nothing against the cars, just the staff they seem to employ.
I am constantly left speachless by some of the crap they spout when handing back a car. Also been given back a car with more faults than when it went in:confused:
Anyway my rant over.
If the dealers do train techs to detect software/chips, I would suggest they train them to first follow a service schedule sheet;) and then how to operate a tyre pressure gauge. This would be more beneficial to anyone owning a SEAT.
Well said-this is so true it hurts!
you missed the "" on the word "technicians" though,because I think labelling them monkeys does an injustice to the primate world!
If only I had video recorded the Bullpoo that I was told by these dealers,then you could all see the crap ive had to put with and the near fights I have had with them.
My car on 3 occasions went in with logged faults on it and what to SEAT do to sort them..................reset them with Vagcom:mad:
They got there in the end though........finally.