Good and Bad News: SEAT Models due in 2004 [Archive] - SEAT Cupra.net

driveforward

04-08-2003, 17:57

I've just retrned from having a rather interesting chat with my local dealer..

Obviously, due this year is the Leon Cupra R 225 BHP variant...
BUT: Next year there is to be a 250BHP Cupra R

4WD anyone? As rumoured in another thread, SEAT are to release a 4WD model next year... problem is, it's to be a 'sport utility vehicle' and NOT a 4WD Leon :mad:

Ibiza Cupra and Cupra R.. They informed me that the TDI130 and a 150BHP petrol varient will be branded as "cupra", with the TDI150 and 180BHP petrol models being R's.

Toledo time... new model due next year...

No mention of the Tango I may add...

That's all folks, they had the info on a CDROM from SEAT, however, this is obviously quite interesting stuff, so it would be good if someone can confirm this or provide more info..

:cheers: Ian

andyb

04-08-2003, 18:08

The Altea will be available in 4wd. Drgs of the Altea are on the main site.

New Toledo may be announced next year, but I suspect that the sales in the UK will follow at the end of the year or early 2005, similar with the Leon.

I'm currently writing a "future of Seat" doc to go with a "history of Seat" big doc for when the new site is launched, so all this is very useful!

Icecavern

04-08-2003, 19:54

Finally Seat take notice and give us 4WD... But in a bloody people carrier !!!!

:scream: :scream: :scream:

driveforward

04-08-2003, 19:58

Originally posted by ICE MAN
Finally Seat take notice and give us 4WD... But in a bloody people carrier !!!!

:scream: :scream: :scream:
I know.. anyone remember that tall Salsa concept with the Renult Scenic like plastic bumpers.. that's my guess as to what's coming.. :(

"Sporty".. I think not.

andyb

04-08-2003, 20:57

http://www.seatcupra.net/images/SEAT%20MPV%20Feature/Mini_MPVdrg.jpg

driveforward

04-08-2003, 21:01

I am referring to this:

http://www.vwvortex.com/news/10_00/10_09/front1.jpg

andyb

04-08-2003, 21:06

yes, but that has turned into the Altera if my understanding is correct. The Leon replacement will be much more conventional, least because of head roof issues with the roof.

That Salsa was an earlier concept, and I wouldnt be suprised if a version of the Altea has some of this 4x4 look as its in fashion at the mo

Did you see the contents of the CD btw? ;)

andyb

04-08-2003, 21:07

oh yes, that drg was taken from some pics of the scale model btw (which was on a car scoop site)

driveforward

04-08-2003, 21:08

Originally posted by andyb
Did you see the contents of the CD btw? ;)
No, but I aim to pay them another visit soon to have a good look at it myself if possible.. I will endeavour to obtain as much information as possible ;)

andyb

04-08-2003, 21:09

lets hope they havent read this then :D

driveforward

04-08-2003, 21:12

Originally posted by andyb
lets hope they havent read this then :D
Heh, no, they were more concerned with me haggling for a discount on my 20K service :p

..which I have been promised will be arranged :)

driveforward

04-08-2003, 21:13

Originally posted by andyb
yes, but that has turned into the Altera if my understanding is correct.
Mutated more like :repuke:

andyb

04-08-2003, 21:17

well its not the best drg in the world as it was rushed, but the finished article looks a bit iffy in my eyes, and also over on www.cardesignnews.com where I posted.

driveforward

04-08-2003, 21:23

The photoshopped images look ok.. it's just the models... :(

dangel

05-08-2003, 07:42

So with a 250bhp R out, that makes the current one 3 models down on the top-o-the-range model! I wonder if there will be any other changes to it?

I can tell you now i'd shoot right down to SEAT and buy a 4wd Cupra R with 250bhp, no question AT ALL!

Do it SEAT DO IT :)

LEO LION R

05-08-2003, 08:32

Yeah, not in a million years - no chance, no way, not a scooby of a chance that it will be made.

It's more like marketing scare ploy to put the willies up their competitors.

I'd buy it too, providing it was a decent installation of 4WD and not just going to be heavier and slower - it would need to be mor eimpressive than the current R, which lets face it just about every second owner has mod'd to 265bhp +

:cheers:

big ALI H

05-08-2003, 08:41

This 4wd will it/ won't it has got me thinking. Surely the chassis is set up to accept it already? 4WD is available in Europe and surely they don't use a different chassis do they?

In my eyes, and i'm sure this has been discussed before, VW & Audi (mainly Audi) know that it WILL steal sales from them - who's gonna buy an S3 when you could have a LCR 225 with 4WD and save yourself £5k? The Octavia has been allowed as its not a serious alternative to the S3 but the LCR is :mad:

LEO LION R

05-08-2003, 08:53

As discussed a lot on here already, yes it would be realtively easy for them to do, but it would be heavier and they have to do ' complicated ' things like swap the fuel tank to the other side etc etc..

I would love one, but i have heard about its possibility since i've been on here, Seat are just missing a great opportunity IMHO.

:cheers:

Cupramax

05-08-2003, 09:07

Originally posted by big ALI H
In my eyes, and i'm sure this has been discussed before, VW & Audi (mainly Audi) know that it WILL steal sales from them - who's gonna buy an S3 when you could have a LCR 225 with 4WD and save yourself £5k? The Octavia has been allowed as its not a serious alternative to the S3 but the LCR is :mad:

The S3 is no more.... They stopped production in March so I cant see this as a problem any more. Why would Audi be worried about a model no longer in porduction?:confused:

dangel

05-08-2003, 09:12

Originally posted by Cupramax
The S3 is no more.... They stopped production in March so I cant see this as a problem any more. Why would Audi be worried about a model no longer in porduction?:confused:

..cos they've prolly got a new one on the way? :)

Yeah it's daft tho isn't it? I mean even with a 4wd drivetrain the R would be a far, far quicker point to point car - esp. when chipped. Imagine how much better you could get the power down off the line, or in the wet... Dreaaaammmm Dreaaamm Dreeaamm Dreamm...

big ALI H

05-08-2003, 09:13

Must admit i didn't realise that Cupramax. Spose its logical as the new A3 is now out. Are VAG gonna continue with the 1.8T then? Its just that they seem to be going for the V6s for the performance hatches now - R32, heard the new S3 (or RS3?) will also be a 3.2 V6. Is this what the replacement Leon Cupra/ R will be?:confused:

Syphon

05-08-2003, 09:51

More details on the Altea:

http://www.seat.com/su/com/SEAT/site/altea-proto/main,lang=en.html#top

:cheers:

Scott

Cupramax

05-08-2003, 09:59

Originally posted by dangel
..cos they've prolly got a new one on the way? :)

Yeah but it sure as hell aint gonna be a 1.8T. I've heard all sorts of things from the old S4 engine ( 2.7V6 twin turbo) to a supercharged or turbo'd version of the R32 engine (most likely).

Shock_Xe

05-08-2003, 10:25

arnt the new vw/vag t engines 2.0t?

Cupramax

05-08-2003, 10:27

There is supposed to be a 2.0T in the pipeline but its not in any cars yet. Think the Golf mk5 will be the first to use it.

Shock_Xe

05-08-2003, 10:51

there is a golf 2.0T on the ECS/neuspeed web site one of the first and they are tuning it. Cant remember which one it was now but they said it looks good for performance mods

Cupramax

05-08-2003, 10:57

What site was this? interesting...

andyb

05-08-2003, 11:13

Originally posted by Syphon
More details on the Altea:

http://www.seat.com/su/com/SEAT/site/altea-proto/main,lang=en.html#top

:cheers:

Scott

good find scott!

Syphon

05-08-2003, 11:16

Originally posted by andyb
good find scott!

I signed up to the e-mail bulletins for the car on the site. They sent me an e-mail about it this morning. :)

:cheers:

Scott

driveforward

05-08-2003, 11:18

As did I ;)

andyb

05-08-2003, 13:44

article now on the main site.

http://www.seatcupra.net/reviews.php?descrip=05/08/2003%20Altea%20nears%20debut%20feature

Thanks Scott and Ian for your help

driveforward

05-08-2003, 13:58

Originally posted by andyb
Thanks Scott and Ian for your help
No problem Andy, I will try and find out more

BenS1

05-08-2003, 14:56

My understanding is that the S3 will use the 3.2 litre engine in the same spec as the new TT, but they are considering a 350bhp RS3 version using a twin turbos on the same 3.2 litre engine! The only thing stopping them signing it off is that it may steal sales from their more expensive RS6 etc.

Ben

Syphon

05-08-2003, 15:17

Originally posted by andyb
article now on the main site.

http://www.seatcupra.net/reviews.php?descrip=05/08/2003%20Altea%20nears%20debut%20feature

Thanks Scott and Ian for your help

No probs. An MPV with Brembos? Looks like it from one of the pictures. :eek:

:cheers:

Scott

hopkinsgm

05-08-2003, 17:27

Originally posted by BenS1
...it may steal sales from their more expensive RS6 etc...
I hardly think that's likely - they're different cars in different classes. That's like suggesting that a sporty Arosa might detract from Leon Cupra R sales...

andyb

05-08-2003, 18:37

oh yes, I have hosting on the scn server, so email it to me if you can (50Meg limit!) at andyb@andyblackmore.co.uk and i'll upload it.

I'll probably sort it out on the main site with Z and Lee if its relevant.

andyb

05-08-2003, 18:39

oh yes, we cant post anything that isnt in the public domain, but hey we can report about it or even doing drawings I suppose ;)

driveforward

06-08-2003, 08:51

OK, here's the update:

I have passed all of the information to Andy, who is putting together an article which will appear within the next week or so; therefore, so as not to spoil the news after all my legwork you'll have to wait until then! ;) :D

:cheers: Ian

andyb

06-08-2003, 09:00

might be two or three weeks,,,,so post away if you want to Ian

whelme

06-08-2003, 09:05

Originally posted by ICE MAN
Finally Seat take notice and give us 4WD... But in a bloody people carrier !!!!

:scream: :scream: :scream:

Plenty room for the ICE install Pete :p

whelme

06-08-2003, 09:07

Originally posted by driveforward
I am referring to this:

http://www.vwvortex.com/news/10_00/10_09/front1.jpg

My son's got one of them - oh sorry I thought it was his off road flip over remote control car for a minute

driveforward

06-08-2003, 09:19

Arosa: At present it appears there is no TDI engine available according to the new brochure and the new SEAT.com website, but some SCN members have noticed it is still listed on the .co.uk website.. make of this what you will, but I can tell you a TDI version is set to appear next year (whether this is a new spec, or to fill the viod by there ‘possibly not being a TDI available now’. Who knows!?!?)

Ibiza: As previously discussed, the Ibiza Cupra and Cupra R versions are scheduled for an early to mid 2004 release, no sign of a 225 version though... just TDI 150 and petrol 180. The sport body kit will soon be available in 3 guises soon along with chrome dash trim for the centre console (the dealer are hoping to kit their latest project with the new goodies),

Leon: This is where it gets very interesting! Again a chrome dash trim will be available for the centre console. THERE IS TO BE NO 4WD LEON between now and when the Leon is scheduled for replacement mid 2005. HOWEVER a TDI 150 Leon in Cupra spec is scheduled for release at the end of 2003/early 2004 alongside the 225 R. With regard to the Leon cupra R 225: Each dealer will either have to have a display model, and then be allocated 6 cars to sell initially, or if they do not take a display model they only get allocated 2 cars...

New Altea: this is scheduled for a marketing build up a year from now, ready for release for the September registrations in 2004. Also, shortly following it will be the mysterious 4WD incarnation.

I certainly hope that this information is correct (apart from no 4WD Leon of course!), however please don’t take it as if it is set in solid stone.. for all I know things may have already changed, and I’ve been shown this information as part of the continual media hype!

I will post reference posts to this in a few of the other forums incase people don't look in here.

:cheers: Ian

Stu B

06-08-2003, 10:17

MMMMMMM I'm sure glad of being an SCN member - Loads of Great news here today!!!! Cant belive what I've been reading. Well done you guys. At the Mo I havent recieved any email re the Altea - But will wait n see. Could prove an interesting addition to the Seat range.
My kids are complaining about the lack of leg room now in the Leon in comparision to my Alhambra... So maybe a 4wd Tdi verion of the Altea could be my next move!?!

Keep up the digging guys & cheers....:cheers: :cheers:

Crafty

06-08-2003, 10:34

A 4x4 Leon will never happen, it'd kill R32 sales and A3 3.2V6 quattro sales. For this reason SEAT UK have an agreement with VAG over what they can and can't sell here, hence we never for the 4motion based leon.
I don't see a 250bhp version being available because if you remember a while back Audi UK wanted to release a 245bhp TT, but Inglostat put the stoppers on it, so why would they allow SEAT to ? Any "only" 18months until replacement is due it'd be a significant investment to do so.

Note that in future all Audi S models are to be normally aspirated, only RS models will use forced induction.

m0rk

06-08-2003, 10:39

The Leon is already made in 4x4 format with the Haldax system as per the other similar cars.

it's relativly high tooling cost for a RHD conversion was the reason for it not being available for UK markets. The Steering rack / column was the main problem IIRC

SEAT Sp determine the cars they are willing to make, not the other way around.

Mark

Crafty

06-08-2003, 11:27

Its relatively easy to make the Leon 4x4. Note that the Cupra 4 didn't use haldex, but the 4motion setup instead.
Note I didn't say that SEAT Spain wont make the cars, just that they wont be sold here, as per the cupra 4.

m0rk

06-08-2003, 11:33

It's not easy if the steering rack hits the gearbox / driveshaft & you have to engineer it.
M

Icecavern

06-08-2003, 12:33

All I'll say is RHD Mk4 Golf.... So whats the problem with the Leon 4wd? VAG Politics...

Pete

m0rk

06-08-2003, 12:39

how many leon's do you think they sell vs golfs

it's a tooling thing

they're not 100% identical

how much more would you pay for a 4x4 leon? 2k? 3k?

that's getting dear & as it's not a huge seller (comparativly) they (SEAT) wouldn't make the money back on the initial setup costs for the RHD variant.

if it were politics, they'd never have bothered making a LHD version.

Crafty

06-08-2003, 12:45

yes golfs are 4x4 BUT which ones ? 4motion - system dumped in favour for haldex, the only haldex golf I know of is the R32, that costs what ? 25k ? give people the option of haldex in a say 19k car which is well known for good handling and has comparative power how many are still going to buy a 25k golf ? or do you get the 19k car, spend a few quid on a decent chip/remap and still pocket well over 5k ?

ZBOYD

06-08-2003, 13:12

The 20VT 4 only available in Europe uses the Haldex, and the CUPRA 4 V6 is 4 Motion as already stated.

andyb

06-08-2003, 13:32

this was posted on cardesignnews

http://www.forocoches.com/foro/attachment.php?s=&postid=34882

as i said over there, it has a lot of Yaris in it, while the rear is very similar, almost identical to the current Ibiza. The front is similar to the Arosa. Now, as Seat design language has moved on, I think this was a proposal for the Ibiza

No idea, just guessing

m0rk

06-08-2003, 13:36

Since when did having 4wd mean good handling?

a 4x4 leon would handle very differently to a 'normal' leon, not least due to having no rear beam & independant rear suspension

Mark

Neilr134

06-08-2003, 13:46

I thought the leon replacement was autumn 2004, not 2005. Autocar have consistentlt stated that, and would fit in with the model year updates we have sept/oct each year

andyb

06-08-2003, 13:50

well I think, from what we have found out from German and dutch press that the new Leon will appear towards the end of 04, but wont be available here until 05

Cupramax

06-08-2003, 14:09

Originally posted by Crafty
if you remember a while back Audi UK wanted to release a 245bhp TT, but Inglostat put the stoppers on it,

Right... :rolleyes: So whats the 3.2 TT then? Scotch mist... :D

driveforward

06-08-2003, 14:40

Originally posted by andyb
well I think, from what we have found out from German and dutch press that the new Leon will appear towards the end of 04, but wont be available here until 05
Remember guys, this is UK specific information ;)

Hindey

06-08-2003, 17:13

Originally posted by driveforward
Arosa: ...I can tell you a TDI version is set to appear next year (whether this is a new spec, or to fill the viod by there ‘possibly not being a TDI available now’. Who knows!?!?)...

What about the 3l engine from the Lupo they have over in Europe? The one tha does 70mpg or something?

Or, could they release a TDi Sport? A VW dealer told me the Lupo TDi Sports sell like hotcakes, easily outstripping the petrol Sport. Fits with SEAT's plan of sporty diesels?

whelme

07-08-2003, 08:03

Originally posted by Hindey
What about the 3l engine from the Lupo they have over in Europe? The one tha does 70mpg or something?

Or, could they release a TDi Sport? A VW dealer told me the Lupo TDi Sports sell like hotcakes, easily outstripping the petrol Sport. Fits with SEAT's plan of sporty diesels?

You can already get a TDi Arosa, the 1.4 3 cylinder one. I've driven one as a loan car and it was excellent, very quick and economical. A very good choice as a first car for a youngster i would have thought.

Hindey

07-08-2003, 08:56

Yeah I know, I was just commenting on SEAT attempting to phase out the current TDi and replacing it later as described in driveforward's post.

whelme

07-08-2003, 09:06

Originally posted by Hindey
Yeah I know, I was just commenting on SEAT attempting to phase out the current TDi and replacing it later as described in driveforward's post.

If the new one is better, it should be superb then

Ballie

07-08-2003, 12:50

Originally posted by Crafty
yes golfs are 4x4 BUT which ones ? 4motion - system dumped in favour for haldex, the only haldex golf I know of is the R32, that costs what ? 25k ? give people the option of haldex in a say 19k car which is well known for good handling and has comparative power how many are still going to buy a 25k golf ? or do you get the 19k car, spend a few quid on a decent chip/remap and still pocket well over 5k ?

I thought the haldex was the 4motion golf 4x4 system just by a different name?
I thought there was only 2 systems in present production the haldex on the EW (east west mounted) engines (golf/leon/TT/A3) and the quattro system on the NS (north-south) engines (passat V6,audi's)

The syncro was the predesesor for the EW systems.

all the golfs ive seen in the UK and europe all seem to use the same system when ive had a look underneath?

Both systems have huge transmition losses so i still prefer 2WD.

edc

07-08-2003, 13:15

http://www.haldex.com/index_main.asp?/news/980603.asp

There is other stuff on this site that differentiates between 4motion and syncro versions too.

dave-v6

07-08-2003, 15:08

Originally posted by Ballie
I thought the haldex was the 4motion golf 4x4 system just by a different name?
I thought there was only 2 systems in present production the haldex on the EW (east west mounted) engines (golf/leon/TT/A3) and the quattro system on the NS (north-south) engines (passat V6,audi's)

The syncro was the predesesor for the EW systems.

all the golfs ive seen in the UK and europe all seem to use the same system when ive had a look underneath?

Both systems have huge transmition losses so i still prefer 2WD.

Well, my Seat dealer charged me for changing the 'Haldex Oil' on the last service - so I'm assuming the Cupra-4 definitely has one! ;)

Not sure how much effect the extra transmission loss actually has in everyday driving. Most of the time the system runs as 2WD, the 4WD only kicks-in when there is a loss of traction - at which point the power loss should be more than offset by the increased grip over a 2WD car.

However, the 4WD components do make the car very H-E-A-V-Y. I think the weight penalty would be the biggest factor going against the Cupra-4 if it was put head-to-head with an 'R' in the dry.

Tdi 110

08-08-2003, 07:40

dangel

08-08-2003, 10:27

Originally posted by dave-v6
However, the 4WD components do make the car very H-E-A-V-Y. I think the weight penalty would be the biggest factor going against the Cupra-4 if it was put head-to-head with an 'R' in the dry.

Prolly doesn't help having that great big engine in there either eh? :) Still, i would love one all the same... :cheers:

Ballie

09-08-2003, 00:16

Originally posted by Tdi 110
Thats what I thought, but didn't want to look stupid by saying so!!!

One point, the Passat is badged "Syncro", and that uses the Audi NS engine setup, as does all Passat models.

the passat next door is badged 4motion its a 2.8V6 even though it uses the old audi quattro system. its just rebadged.
You are correct as far as i know saying all NS engines use the quattro system and just different badges used.
you are right and i agree the A4/A6/passat platform uses NS engines so uses the quattro derrived 4WD.

only A3,TT,golf,bora,leon, octavia use the haldex as far as i know and im told it can be troublesome.

only EW engines use the haldex or as my mate that works for audi as a mecanic says heldex. When i was looking for a new car i took his advice and did not get the haldex.