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shirudell
28-08-2003, 14:17
Just had a third very frustrating call with SEAT UK Customer 'Care' about a problem I have with my Leon (Imported January 2001).

Over the past 6 months or so the leather seat cover of my drivers seat has been getting very stretched and also cracked slightly. I am not a 20 stoner or anything! - just normal build and don’t have a particularly strange shaped bum so went to my local dealership - Castlegate in Norwich to get them to have a look, (This is not a complaint against Castlegate - who have been very good and very helpful at times with warranty issues on my car).

Castlegate arranged to replace the seat cover under the two year warranty. Great I thought, very helpful.

The part came in and I was called to arrange the fitting. When I went back to collect the car, immediately when I opened the drivers door I could see the new seat base cover did not match the rest of my interior. I don't mean is was slighlty differently patterned or anything, is was very different. The leather interior of my car is all shiny black leather, and has always been since new. It's always been looked after, and I have used a specialist leather treatment on it every six months which protects it against UV etc.

The replacement cover was a dark grey in colour compared to the rest of my interior, and has a very mat appearance. Clearly, I thought, the wrong part. I returned to the dealership and they checked the database of parts and confirmed it was the correct part listed, and suggested I call SEAT UK Customer ‘Care’.

I did this, and spoke to a chap called Toby. He was very helpful and agreed to call Castlegate to check on the part and investigate if there was an alternative. So far so good, I was impressed at this point with the service.

However, I received a call back from Toby a couple of times to confirm that he was was still looking into the issue, before finally a call came from him, to tell me that the leather seat cover was correct and that the difference in colour was due to ‘normal wear and tear’ on the vehicle interior. To clarify things, I explained that my car was only 15 months old, and that most of the time I was the only occupant and that all of the rest of the leather interior was uniformly the same and quite different from the new seat base, ie. Gloss black, not matt grey. Toby insisted that the difference was down to normal wear and tear. Eventually it was agreed that I should take the car back to the customer service manager at Castlegate for him to look at the seat and report back to SEAT UK. Straight after getting off the phone I did this, and the customer service manager at Castlegate looked at the seat base and agreed with me that it looked different from the rest of the car interior. I left it with him as Toby at SEAT UK had said he would call him to discuss the problem later.

This was early August, and yesterday (27th) I got a message from Toby stating that the seat cover was the correct part and that the rest of my car’s leather interior had worn and so didn’t match the new part. I phoned straight away and again stated that this was not in fact true! How could, in fact, the rest of the leather in my car, and Toby was insistent it would all have worn equally, have worn in such a way that it was all exactly the same, under the seats, the seat backs, the bits hidden behind the parcel shelf, the rear seats (hardly sat on) etc, all exactly the same colour and gloss finish! I don’t know if anyone out there agrees with me but I thought this sounded pretty ridiculous! Toby was insistent and stated that SEAT UK could do nothing about the problem. I said to him that as far as I was concerned it was still a problem to be solved by SEAT under the warranty, and that I would seek to take action in court if SEAT didn’t fix the problem. This seemed to be the only way to get anywhere, and Toby said he would arrange to get a SEAT inspector to look at my car

I don’t want my car to have a mis-matched leather interior due to failure by SEAT UK to replace any faulty parts with similarly finished parts. It is so obvious that when I come to sell the car I would have to explain it to any potential buyer! Why should I lose some of the value of my car because this is SEAT’s problem under the terms of their warranty!

Incidentally, despite clearly agreeing that the seat base was faulty – ie faulty material, and replacing it, and then verbally confirming the SEAT warranty for 2 years against faulty materials or workmanship, SEAT UK Customer ‘Care’ tell me that there is no proper and complete warranty document available, and that none exists within SEAT as a company. I asked them for a copy of the warranty terms and conditions as all that comes with the car is about half a page in the owners manual, and a Customer ‘Care’ manager told me that SEAT did not have such a document, it didn’t exist. Sorry, but this must be complete BS. The dealerships have warranty documents clearly defined, but in the case of Castlegate they say it is all computer based and they are unable to provide me with a copy. Fair enough I thought, and contacted SEAT UK as advised only to get the response outlined above.

When I spoke to a customer ‘care’ manager at SEAT UK today all I got was the same line being spun by Toby, that the new seat cover didn’t match because the rest of my car interior had suffered wear and tear. Eventually the lady I spoke to agreed that she couldn’t comment specifically on my car as she had not seen it, good I thought, we’re getting somewhere, but then the conversation went something like this;

28th August, phone conversation extract 13:45.

SEAT UK Customer Care Manager: Obviously I cannot comment specifically on your vehicle, sir, as I have not seen it, but I’ll tell you what I can do.

Me: Good, thank you.

SEAT UK Customer Care Manager: Leather is a natural product and it always varies.

Me: Yes, I agree, but SEAT should be able to match materials for the period of the warranty, and if this means holding some spare parts for upholstery then this is was SEAT should do.

SEAT UK Customer Care Manager: Leather is a natural product and it always varies.

Me: Yes.

SEAT UK Customer Care Manager: The interior of your car will have faded due to sunlight.

Me: Erm, including the bits underneath the seats?

SEAT UK Customer Care Manager: All the interior will be subject to wear and tear , Mr Berry, and will fade from sunlight, and this is why the new seat cover does not match.

Me: Sorry, but how can the bits of leather interior that are underneath the seats, behind the parcel shelf, in between the rear seats, all out of the sunlight, have faded. The interior has not faded at all. It is a black leather with a gloss finish and the new part is dark grey and mat!

SEAT UK Customer Care Manager: Mr Berry, please let me finish…The interior of your car will have faded due to normal wear and tear, and…

Me: Can you please accept that this is not the case, and that the customer service manager at Castlegate SEAT has looked again at the seat cover and reported back to SEAT UK that it is different from the rest of the interior

SEAT UK Customer Care Manager: Mr Berry, please let me finish…I’m trying to help you, if you let me finish. The interior of your car will have faded due to normal wear and tear…

Me: Please stop repeating yourself. The interior has not worn. The new seat cover is different, please tell me what you can do about that without continuing to repeat that my car’s interior has faded due to wear and tear. It hasn’t. You just said yourself you could not comment on my car specifically as you hadn’t seen it.

SEAT UK Customer Care Manager: Mr Berry, please let me finish…The interior of your car will have faded due to normal wear and tear, and…

At this point, I’m afraid to say I cut the connection. I had remained polite and not raised my voice or been abusive but listening to this repeated drivel was really getting on my nerves!

So now I am waiting. In my last conversation with Toby he said he would arrange for a SEAT inspector to look at my car. I have already had three visits to the dealership (24 mile round trip each time) and feel like SEAT are trying to squeeze out of this problem. As far as the warranty goes I don’t think I should accept the repair if it is not as good at the original. Surely SEAT should either come up with the correct part or replace the rest to match – I am not angling for this – there is nothing wrong with the rest of my leather interior and I prefer the glossy finish. I wonder now if I should have just put up with a the creased and cracked drivers seat base cover and not started this process at all!

big ALI H
28-08-2003, 14:39
Keep it going mate, like you say, if & when you come to sell your car, you WILL lose money due to the incompetence of SEAT UK. You've had the dealer say that you are correct, i would make at least 1 call a day to Toby at SEAT UK asking where the inspector is. Make sure whatever answer you get, that you get it in writing. I'd also go back to the dealer and ask the CS manager to put in writing that it is the wrong part then send a copy to Toby at SEAT UK.

Keep us updated mate:cheers:

andyb
28-08-2003, 14:52
you need to demand an inspector comes to see it, and also document your complaint in writing to SEAT UK.

btw- please dont "spam" the other forums regarding this post, it just clogs up the board and most members use the "new posts" facility anyway

shirudell
28-08-2003, 15:15
Hi Andyb, sorry about the other links to this post in some of the other forums. Got a bit frustrated and really want people to come and read my rather long rant! I won't do it again, sorry :(

I have just written a letter to SEAT UKs Marketing Director, including a copy of my forum post. I hoipe this will get their attention. I was really very angry at the dogmatic telephone style of the customer care manager at SEAT UK, not only contradicting herself, but clearly knowing she was making me more and more frustrated by simply not taking on board the main issue - MY LEATHER INTERIOR HAS NOT WORN !!! As my wife pointed out just now, if the interior had in fact faded, it would better match the replacement part supplied by SEAT!

I now eagerly await the response from SEAT UK. As for getting the CC manager at Castlegate to provide in writing, some form of confirmation of the mis-match, I'm not sure if it would be fair to put the dealership in that position. After all I didn't buy the car from them and would like to avoid involving them in any pain-in-the-bum stuff with SEAT UK if at all possible as they have been very good in looking after other minor warranty issues with my car and I don't wish to cause them extra work. Maybe I should ask him though, I'll see what I get back from SEAT first.

Anyone have a current warranty document for January 2001 cars on? As explained in my original post I can't get one out of SEAT. Any dealers out there willing to send me a copy or tell me where to find one on the net? Many thanks!

Cran
28-08-2003, 15:30
Why don't you say that if all the other leather panels have worn excessively (as can be clearly seen by the difference in colour to the new one) then you need them all replacing... :D

Cran
28-08-2003, 15:31
or you could get a bead seat cover then it wouldn't notice... :p

Fl@pper
28-08-2003, 16:25
if it was down to fading ??

then why is yours a gloss black and the new UNFADED part a matt grey ?

they confirmed the part itself so i gathered

ask em for the part number - i'll ask someone to check it ;)

plus - need the trim code off the spec sticker if poss - to be sure


just an idea - has anyone thought it may have been packaged wrong ? as a possible solution/verification send the dealer another one for comparison - and return is possible if same ???

Cran
28-08-2003, 16:38
As it's an import, it might have non standard seats? Can you check that?

Best thing is probably let them inspect it, and then hopefully they will see for themselves that it is obviously the wrong colour and not faded.

IanJ
28-08-2003, 17:02
You want to get a colour chart from B+Q or something. They clearly show that grey is lighter than black!!

shirudell
28-08-2003, 17:09
Cran, don't think bead seat covers are really me - thanks for the tip though ;)

Thanks for the offer to check the part Flapper, I'll find out and post it in this thread.

As for the seats being non-standard, well it was known the car was an import when the part was ordered and the car was supplied directly from the SEAT factory to the dealer in Eindhoven, so whatever leather is fitted was SEAT parts for sure. I know this can be an issue as when enquiring about importing initially some dodgy Belgian agent offered to have his local 'guy' re-upholster the standard seats cheaper than ordering with leather!! Mmm, wouldn't touch that with a barge pole.

Castlegate took all the details from the sticker in the PDI booklet and the chassis number, so I expect they got it right.

shirudell
28-08-2003, 17:15
Got the part number: 1M0 881 405J 2Y6

The Chassis number of the car is: DELETED (Noted forum rules)

In the PDI/Inspection booklet, there is another line after the chassis number: 1M1 524
then: LEON MNO/TBU
SPORTL41.9 TDISG
ASV EGS
LS5N VN

Hope this is enough info!

thanks again Flapper!

shirudell
28-08-2003, 18:07
Picture of the seat base with the seat back in view for comparison.

shirudell
28-08-2003, 18:39
Another picture...

shirudell
28-08-2003, 18:39
And another one

andyb
28-08-2003, 18:48
unbelievable!

shirudell
28-08-2003, 20:42
Yep, stunning lack of care on part of SEAT UK!! If anyone hasn't looked already check out the photos of the mis-matched warranty replacement leather seat cover.

Grrrrr!

shirudell
28-08-2003, 21:49
I just had a long conversation with a customer care manager for Jaguar, (my brother in-law). He thinks that it's quite possible that SEAT have changed supplier of their leather for interiors, perhaps because of the problem I originally had with the leather seat base, ie poor quality leather, and that now it is very likely that the new supplier's product is quite different from the original product. This makes sense, otherwise why would SEAT UK be insisting that Grey is Black and Matt is Gloss - subject to wear and tear!

Maybe I should post a POLL to see how many readers can see the obvious difference in colour/finish between what SEAT have fitted under warranty and the original leather, looking at the photos I posted in this thread.

big ALI H
29-08-2003, 07:56
There is a massive difference! I must say though that it appears that SEAT may have changed the supplier of leather. My MY03 Leon Cupra has leather and it looks more like your drivers seat (the replaced one). If they can't source a new cover or seat then i would expect to have the rest of the seats recovered or replaced as they blatantly do not match.

Hope this helps. Go to a SEAT dealer and see if you can see a new model with leather and compare it, but from your pics, thats what mine looks like.

shirudell
29-08-2003, 09:16
Thanks for your comments Big Ali. Does anyone know if SEAT UK bother to look into these forums? Then they could see the pictures for themselves.

Off to the local court today to pick up a court claim form ready to issue a summons if the inspector doesn't show up soon or still persists in the wear and tear nonsense.

mark sheerin
29-08-2003, 09:20
Erm am I the only one thats noticed that when they say the original seats have faded compared to the new one that the new one is LIGHTER than the OLD one's which are DARKER than the new one.

shirudell
29-08-2003, 09:25
Nope, commented on earlier in the thread :) But yeah! Bet you if I had said that to SEAT customer care they would have still just repeated the same thing over and over again.

Have you read the conversation extract in my first post? That is pretty much exactly how the conversation went (subject to my memory), I wrote that down within half an hour of getting off the phone.

dave-v6
29-08-2003, 09:59
Your new seat base looks like it has the same dark-grey matt finish leather as-used on my car (half-leather Recaro's).

Some cleaning products can change the appearance of the leather. The one I used on mine gave the leather a slightly darker and more glossy finish. This hasn't happened in your case has it?

The attached picture was taken before I cleaned the leather.

shirudell
29-08-2003, 10:11
Thanks for the picture of your interior. I like the CUPRA seats!! The leather cleaner/preserver I have used is a Turtle Wax product. When you apply it, it is does return the original shine, but if you compare areas after a few months from treatment the leather still has the same shade and gloss finish, even when the treatment 'layer' has begun to rub off.

I will try the treatment on a part of the replacement cover today to see if it makes any difference. However, the leather of the new cover has a more even grain, appears and feels thicker, as well as being more dark grey and matt in finish. So I don't think the treatment used is an issue, but I will test the theory to make sure!

The seats in my car were shiny black to begin with, and never had this grey matt finish.

dave-v6
29-08-2003, 10:39
Originally posted by shirudell
Thanks for the picture of your interior. I like the CUPRA seats!! The leather cleaner/preserver I have used is a Turtle Wax product. When you apply it, it is does return the original shine, but if you compare areas after a few months from treatment the leather still has the same shade and gloss finish, even when the treatment 'layer' has begun to rub off.

I will try the treatment on a part of the replacement cover today to see if it makes any difference. However, the leather of the new cover has a more even grain, appears and feels thicker, as well as being more dark grey and matt in finish. So I don't think the treatment used is an issue, but I will test the theory to make sure!

The seats in my car were shiny black to begin with, and never had this grey matt finish.

From the difference in thickness and grain you describe it sounds like the leather is indeed a different type, possibly from a different supplier as has been suggested.

My car was new in Jan 2002, which means it was built about 1 year after yours. Maybe Seat changed the source of their leather during that period?

shirudell
05-09-2003, 18:34
As promised, here's the latest on my leather interior saga. After leaving a message for Toby at Seat Customer Care on Monday 1st September and Wednesday 3rd also, asking him to contact me regarding when an inspector will be able to look at my car, I received a message on my answer service on Wednesday PM from Donna at SEAT regarding my letter.

I spoke to her today and she has told me that she accepts my points made in my letter and that the leather replacement seat base is different from the rest of the interior and that this is probably because a different supplier was used for the interior fitted to my car because I bought it in Holland. Personally I'm not entirely sure why this should be, as all cars are made on the same production system I believe, but anyway SEAT Customer Care have now said they will get a leather upholsterer to produce a matching seat base for my drivers seat.

I have been told by a friend in the car business (Customer Service manager for Jaguar) to make sure that the colour matching is not carried out by spraying the replacement seat base, as apparantly this is one common way of matching leathers. The reason to avoid - the spray coating gradually wears off! I don't think this is what SEAT UK have in mind, but I will be watching out.

andyb
07-09-2003, 18:11
the fact you bought the car in Holland has no relevance as it has the same part no, accodring to SEAT CS as a UK supplied car. Your car is no different to a UK car in this respect, the only thing is that after the factory it went to Holland instead of UK.

However, accoding to how old the car is, it may have been built in Belgium or Holland (cant remember which). First Leons were built there and then the production transfered down to Spain sometime in 2001 I think IIRC.

good news that you've got some progress. well done

shirudell
22-02-2004, 14:47
Just to close off this thread, as I said to SEAT UK I would post the results here!

After posting on this forum and pointing that out to SEAT UK's marketing people, I got fantastic service from SEAT UK. My leather seat is now fixed, in the end they got an upholsterer to stitch in a new panel to the original part so that it matched the rest of the interior, which it now seems to pretty well. Had a few more problems on the way, like the dealer damaged the seat foam in the process of fitting the new leather, but that has now been replaced too and all is now fixed.

Climate control display failed a couple of days oout of warranty though - argh! The dealer has put in a concessionary claim for it though and I hope SEAT UK will cough up, as they're around 500 squid.