View Full Version : revo'd R=scooby doo
just wondering would a revo'd lcr match up to a imprezza turbo either new or old shape ones. i no not on the 0-60 but mid range on a theoretical straight road?
Cupramax
30-08-2003, 11:45
Off the line,... not a hope in hell. Once your moving probably yes depending on what you are playing with. I have a friend with a completely standard My03 Sti (no PPP) and theres nothing between his and mine. Down a dual carriageway side by side theres nothing in it from 30 onwards until we ran out of road/nerve. Tried racing off the line with him and the Impreza just sits down and f*cks off leaving me in a cloud of tyre smoke :D.
Ask KaraK how it felt when i had the Revo 5 hour demo as he has a Turbo 2000. He did say he had to work to try and keep up with me but i'd bet that in the long run the Revo'd R would beat it.
A Revo'd R would have 270bhp but more tellingly about 250ibft of tourqe all the way down fro 2100rpm. The scoob has about the same amont of tourqe but it doesn't come in till 4000rpm +
Maybee me and KaraK will let you know for sure what it's like once i get my ass down to Revo and we find an airfield somewhere or a big stretch of empty tramac.
My Revo'd R measures 30-70 in 4.9 secs in 3rd gear
off the line the scoob ahniliates the R even when it is revo'd, once your going tho its pretty much even stevens as far as I could tell. This was against the demo though so I reckon a full revo burn with some high settings would be enought to beat the scoob (in a rolling race anyway). Off the line I think the scoob will still have it as the FWD nature of the R means it just can't put its power down anywhere near as effectively off the line.
Like LDoR says though, once he has revo we will find an airfield ansd settle it once and for all!
Neanderthal
08-09-2003, 11:22
I can probably answer this better than most as I sold my Scooby for the LCR. When I brought the Scooby it was completly standard but against the standard LCR I would have to say the Scooby felt MUCH quicker.
Not many people have a scooby and don't modify it though and I wasn't the exception either ;) I think I got mine up to ~260bhp with 250ft/lb of torque. I'd have to say that the Revo'd R feels just about as quick as the Scooby in a straight line now. I have to admit though that I need to keep the rev's on the LCR above 3k (not a problem!) in order to miss the hesitation spot my car seems to suffer from. In this respect it drives very much like the Scooby. The extra gear and thus shorter gearing of the LCR means that your constantly held back in the seat as it's in the "zone" of max acceleration.
I've just got back from a week in Yorkshire and I would have to say the roads suited the Scooby far more than the LCR (probably explains why I saw so many of them up there!!), but travelling down the motorway I'd take the LCR every time.
Matt
I own a new age WRX and have had the pleasure of driving a Revo'd R for 250+ miles today on a combination of motorways and fast B roads.
All IMO of course
Mid range a revo'd R would beat a standard new age Scooby quite easily. It would be close between the older scoob and the reco'd R.
My Scoob has the pro drive pack fitted and mid range it is very similar to the Revo'd R.
I use to own a normal Leon Cupra before I got my Leon Cupra R.
I don't usually race people but I once raced a standard old type Scoob( I presume was standard)in my old normal chipped Leon Cupra. I was driving down a single lane country road and he flew up behind me and started to drive right up my arse and then pulled out to overtake. I just lost it and floored it. To put it simply, he tried as hard as he could but just could'nt get past me. In the end whilst still driving side by side and with a roundabout fast approaching, I pulled back to let him get in front. Served him right for driving like a t**t. I bet he thinks twice when he sees a Leon Cupra now!
My Revo'd R is a good deal quicker than my old chipped Cupra and a good half a second quicker 30-70. It would easily be quicker (once up and running!) than an old type standard scoob. 270bhp, 285lb/ft and no 4wd transmission losses. Remember as well the 1.8T takes at least 10k miles to start to loosen up and rev freely.
scoobycar60
28-09-2003, 23:10
I agree I would think you would be even Stevens with a standard new age STI with a rolling start, however most are PPP'd or played with. If you wish to compare like with like chipped and modded STI'S are often running 350-400+ bhp these days which is a bit strong for a LCR. 4 wheel drive becomes more critical at higher bhp figures in the real world too. All are quick cars, on a track, driver skill is the real issue, on the road your mad to try IMHO.
Oh! and dont get too excited about the extended power band of the LCR
Scoobies have good gearboxes and keeping the motor on boost in the power band isn't hard.
ex Leon Cupra 20VT owner....I still rate the Cupra and especially the "r" as one of the best value for money performance packages you can buy.
:)
ibizacupra
29-09-2003, 08:08
Originally posted by scoobycar60
I agree I would think you would be even Stevens with a standard new age STI with a rolling start, however most are PPP'd or played with. If you wish to compare like with like chipped and modded STI'S are often running 350-400+ bhp these days which is a bit strong for a LCR. 4 wheel drive becomes more critical at higher bhp figures in the real world too. All are quick cars, on a track, driver skill is the real issue, on the road your mad to try IMHO.
Oh! and dont get too excited about the extended power band of the LCR
Scoobies have good gearboxes and keeping the motor on boost in the power band isn't hard.
ex Leon Cupra 20VT owner....I still rate the Cupra and especially the "r" as one of the best value for money performance packages you can buy.
:)
Only ever met one scooby which I have'nt been able to pass on track. A Race one on slicks. All others have been very mediocre on track.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by scoobycar60
[B]I agree I would think you would be even Stevens with a standard new age STI with a rolling start, however most are PPP'd or played with. If you wish to compare like with like chipped and modded STI'S are often running 350-400+ bhp these days which is a bit strong for a LCR.
I dont think a wrx with ppp will have 350/400bhp. And an sti with ppp wont have 350-400bhp either. Go on scoobynet and see how many scoobs have 350/400bhp i bet you can count them on two hands. On a day to day basic i reckon the majority of cars will be 260/320bhp. I think an new sti with ppp makes about 310/320bhp. A real 400bhp scoob is hard to come by, well it's only what i reckon i might be wrong!!:) .
Finally found a Scooby willing to play last week !!!
...from 20mph upwards I pulled a little, I think from 110mph he pulled the gap back but wasn't closing noticeably. He was genuinely suprised that he couldn't get close but it was all very good natured - good lad :)
From what I could make out it was a std WRX
A
scoobycar60
29-09-2003, 19:56
My what a touchy lot!
I post on scoobynet all the time, loads of modified scoobies have 350 bhp, a few beat 500bhp! Show me handful of Cupra Rs with that sort of power,there will be a lot less Cupras with 300bhp let alone 350 than Scoobies.
Check out the dyno pages or G force website, Madmile, go and borrow a few extra hands, I think you may need them for counting on! :)
ibizacupra your either dreaming mate or a fantastic driver with a super hot car! :) anyway good for you. Scoobies mediocre on the track!
Hum Ho, I dont think so .......!
Interesting to see how many times this post is disected ;)
Go on scoobynet, look at power enginnering RR days, well lanes etc, there are very few 400bhp scoobs, but there are plenty of scoob owners who say they have 400bhp with no proof or black and white proof. FACT!!!!!!!!!!!!!:)
scoobycar60
29-09-2003, 20:46
Alright so you dont need that many hands! :)
I agree 400 bhp scoobies are quite rare, 300-350bhp are common as muck, blimey mine has 300 just with a PPP factory option with full warrenty, put a decat on it run the boost a bit higher with a TEK3 remap and 335-350bhp is dead easy to achieve.From there on it does start to get expensive and an Evo is probably a better proposition for 400+ bhp without spending a fortune!
Still dont think there are many LCRs running anything like this sort of power and if they did it would be almost impossible to use it as there are limits of traction that a front wheel car can provide. In the wet things would get worse still! My point is you need 4WD to take serious advantage of major power increases, thats the main reason I went from a Cupra to a Scooby. Traction off the line and out of a corner leaves a Cupra for dead IMHO
Scoobs are now over-rated, 5-10 yrs ago they were the bollocks. Now the game has moved forward in leaps and bounds the same cannot be said about scoobs, they always play second fiddle to Evo's in there particular class. And as for Bill and his Ibiza beating scoobs on the track if he says it then it is true, and from what i hear there are plenty to witness it. Scoobs are good but not that good. Sorry :( .
ibizacupra
29-09-2003, 20:57
Originally posted by scoobycar60
ibizacupra your either dreaming mate or a fantastic driver with a super hot car! :) anyway good for you. Scoobies mediocre on the track!
Hum Ho, I dont think so .......!
Interesting to see how many times this post is disected ;)
:laff: :lol2:
Dude... you need to do some more research before questioning some peeps motors...
Fact #1. My Ibiza runs 350bhp and 300lb/ft torque
Fact #2. It does (VBox verified) 0-60 in 5sec, 0-100 in 10s, 1/4 in 13.4 and Vmax of 160mph
Fact #3. Laps Castle Combe in 1m18s on road legal tyres
Come to Donnington Park on the 2nd November and find any Subaru which is faster on track. :)
Subaru Imprezzas are the most overrated track cars around. On track they are as I said very mediocre. EVO's are faster on track from what I've seen. As a point to point car they are good, on real roads etc, but they are not well suited to tracks. As I said, there has only been one Scoob which I could not pass, and that was a nice race built car fully caged and running slicks. It was fast, but I now run significantly more power than I did then. Hope to meet him again on track soon.
By the way, I don't make this sh1t up either ;) :bounce:
:D
regards
Bill
There ya go!!!!!, less ov ya slaver, and get back on SIDC. Now you see why every man and his dog gives scoobs a good going at, they aint all that. Gone are the days of everyone bowing before the almighty scoob :p :p .
scoobycar60
29-09-2003, 21:20
ibizacupra
Jeez with that sort of power in such a light car I dont dispute what you say, what sort of mods have you done to the car, have you gone internal on the engine, tranny? major suspension mods? I would have thought a roll cage and slicks must be next on your list!
Still dont think scoobies make bad track cars, lap times from some of the clubs more talented drivers a usually not bad.
Hey I am not trying to be confrontational folks, just a bit of banter!
Anyone got any times for the Nurburg ring they are proud of, saw enough ring stickers on your cars at Trax recently or are they for posing? ;)
ibizacupra
29-09-2003, 21:39
Originally posted by scoobycar60
ibizacupra
Jeez with that sort of power in such a light car I dont dispute what you say, what sort of mods have you done to the car, have you gone internal on the engine, tranny? major suspension mods? I would have thought a roll cage and slicks must be next on your list!
Still dont think scoobies make bad track cars, lap times from some of the clubs more talented drivers a usually not bad.
Hey I am not trying to be confrontational folks, just a bit of banter!
Anyone got any times for the Nurburg ring they are proud of, saw enough ring stickers on your cars at Trax recently or are they for posing? ;)
No worries.. its all good fun. thats why we do it is'nt it? :)
Engine mods are only lower CR pistons and gas flowed head... on an otherwise stock bottom end. Turbo is IHI roller bearing by www.jabbasport.com
Suspension is Bilstein coil overs and other springs, with big front and rear ARB's (adjustable rear)
Brakes are sometimes Brembo sometimes Wilwood (playing about with them to find my ideal setup) Suspension is poly bushed.
Cage, :laff: is being fitted this week funnily enough. Slicks are also on the cards, but I do run competition road legal tyres on track mostly.
G'box runs a quaife ATB diff on a detailed build.
Its a fun car... :)
regards
bill
PS. Got me a 'Ring' sticker too... and its not just for show :D What a place! :)
bill, i really do wanna see your bezza on track.....
saw your jetta, and that looked fun...must make a point of watchin again sometime
Mark:)
scoobycar60
29-09-2003, 22:33
Sounds like the business!
Maybe see you at a track day where you can scare me to death as a passenger for a lap or two!
Some of the Scooby crowd are a bit blinkered and up themselves about their cars :rolleyes: , so whats new in car clubs ! ;)
Seriously you and other Seat track day fans should come along to a scooby track day and put them right, it would be fun to compare various cars and their ability!
ibizacupra
29-09-2003, 22:40
Originally posted by scoobycar60
Sounds like the business!
Maybe see you at a track day where you can scare me to death as a passenger for a lap or two!
Some of the Scooby crowd are a bit blinkered and up themselves about their cars :rolleyes: , so whats new in car clubs ! ;)
Seriously you and other Seat track day fans should come along to a scooby track day and put them right, it would be fun to compare various cars and their ability!
I am.. along with RobT... Cadwell on the 18th with the Lancer Evo club..... :D Should be fun :D
When is the next Scooby track day?
Got any info?
Bill
bill:
look on the SIDC website as they host trackdays quite regularly. In all honesty if I could get anywhere near your bezza on track in my scoob I'd be wondering where you'd hidden the lead weights!
Its true that the UK scoob is definately 2nd to the Evo in terms of power, that's differnt when you talk imports though (Spec C anyone? :D) Also the difference isn't as big as it was say two years ago, with the standard STiUK kicking out 265 and the standard EvoVIII kicking out roughly the same the only major differences are in the handling, the evo is better on track but the scoob matches it on "real" roads.
Lemme just clear up some power myths:
Std UK "classic" scoob - 208-218 bhp (depending on year)
Std UK P1 - 276 bhp
Std UK "bug-eye" scoob - 218 bhp (STI ~250)
Std UK "blob-eye" scoob - 225 bhp (STI = 265)
Std JDM WRX ~ 276 bhp (based on 100RON fuel)
Current "Spec C" ~ 315 bhp (LDoR - get the figure from EVO for me)
PPP adds ~35-40 bhp to the above.
I'd agree that many would overrate the scoobs abilities on track - in a away its a victim of its own success
Right now some specific points I have on this:
1. They may be over-rated but that doesn't change the fact that they aren't BAD cars on a track - particularly if you are talking standard then there isn't much that gets close in that sort of price range, (the LCR being one of the notable cars that DOES get close)
2. They aren't really intended for track use - they are much more of a b-road blast car.
3. 400bhp is very obtainable out of the current evolution of the scoob's engine, but the 1.8 20VT can ALSO make that, and I bet you could count the number of those on here with just the one hand.
4. Just beacause a more cars are "catching up" with the scoob (notably the excellent LCR) it doesn't make it a bad car or a "has been" The scoob still offers the same good things as the LCR, a quick, nice handling car for not a lot of money - and it can be easily upgraded.
5. The scoob set the early benchmark for this sort of car - it started the trend (more or less) so alot of people love to attack it.
6. Yes there are some bullsh*tting scoob owners who claim massive power that they don't have but if the LCR had been around for the same length of time and there was the same number of modded examples running around any money you would see exactly the same thing. Some people are just tw*ts no matter what they drive!
Look guys LCR and Scoob owners are part of the same club - we both own fast, value-for-money motors but with slightly different strengths to suit varying tastes - now lets get back to taking the piss out of the CTR :)
ibizacupra
30-09-2003, 08:23
I think it would be fare to say the the Scoobs are the current cossies... and that can attract the wrong kind of interest etc.
Local to me, the avg age of scoob owner getting some older imprezas is falling rapidly, and the crash rate is rising at a similar rate. Big misconception.... 4WD being unshakable... then first real corner at too high an entry speed = understeer into scenery.
There are quick cars in every breed, mutant ibiza's included :p
I would like to have a good drive of a Subaru Impreza to see quite what they're like for myself. I only get to see them driven in anger on track, and there, they are (relatively) slow. (my old 16v Jetta was a faster car on track)
Scoobs are benchmark... and are always a comparison as a consequence. EVO's are more rare.
The big unknown in any comparison is of course the loose nut behind the wheel :p
regards
bill
http://www.badger5.demon.co.uk/bin/Bill%20on%20the%20Edge.jpg
http://www.badger5.demon.co.uk/bin/cadwell-bill-2-small.jpg
You say you can count on one hand how many LCR and Ibizas have 350bhp. Thats true but how long have the cars been out compared to scoobs. I would think theres a fair few on the waiting list with Jabbasport, its just a hold up at the Jabba end at the moment. I dont think anyone says that Scoobs are bad cars, but i think the majority who have driven one or owned one would say it was not as quick as they exspected. Nice cars but the gap has closed up from the hot hatches of 5-10 yrs ago, gone are the days where a 215bhp scoob can overpower most of the cars on the scene. We all know how quick in a straight line a stnd wrx bug eye is. And please feel free to slag the CTR off, just do have a go at Clio Cups or Neil will turn up with his AP22 times :D .
Madmile - I wasn't talking about 300-350 bhp. I was talking 400 bhp. I made that comparison talking about the current scoob engine (known as the Phase II) because it has been around for the same length of time roughly as the 1.8 20VT (since 99/00). I can't speak for everyone but most of the new sccoob owners who turn up on scoobynet are very happy with the speed, and I was the same. Found it to be every bit as quick as I expected. Now as for the CTR that's another story. I drove a tuned one and found it much below expectations. Now THERE is an over-hyped and over-rated car! :D
PS: Not going to slag the Cup off - haven't driven one so I wouldn't know what I was talking bout :)
ibizacurpa - I'd say you are spot on it your estimation of a large number of new scoob drivers. AWD is fantastic but it can't save you all the time. I just hope you don't ever fall into the trap of slagging the car off because of some of the muppets that drive them :) Oh and I would love to hear your opinions if you drove an Impreza on track.
ibizacupra
30-09-2003, 11:38
Originally posted by KaraK
ibizacurpa - I'd say you are spot on it your estimation of a large number of new scoob drivers. AWD is fantastic but it can't save you all the time. I just hope you don't ever fall into the trap of slagging the car off because of some of the muppets that drive them :) Oh and I would love to hear your opinions if you drove an Impreza on track.
Anyone want to volunteer me a drive of a nice spec'd Scoob for track "testing"? :D
Muppets will break into the SEAT scene sooner or later, thanks to quality mags like Max flower etc... :sick:
I won't slag any car off based on what I see, but I will comment on what I see on track. The best performance aid many drivers of warm/hot cars could do is an advanced driving course and race school tuition. They would learn more from that than anything IMHO. Power is as quoted by Pirelli "is nothing without control"
The old comparison of 4WD vs 2WD on dry tracks comes up repeatedly, with the misconception that the 4WD will have more grip. It won't. It will have more traction out of slow/slipepry corners where 2WD wheels spin might be an issue, but thats about it.
I would love to drive a nice Scoob on track and see what all the noise is about. Its no doubt a very capable road car.
regards
bill
Neanderthal
30-09-2003, 11:40
I drive my Scooby (classicbest shape) on track (Bedford Autodrome - fantastic track lots of run off if ever needed). It understeered in the dry and despite my best efforts (whilst still being sympathetic to MY car) it was incredible how difficult it was to get out of shape. In the afternoon it rained and I found that trailing the brake into the corner allowed the rear end to slide out and I had some fantastic 4 wheel drifts.
Since the track day and selling it I had the bump steer mod and it practically removed all understeer and it handled so well it was unbelievable and inspired confidence!
I'm not going to slate any car but for B-road enjoyment I haven't driven ANY car that handled and responded as well as my Scooby.
My REVO'd LCR is very very good, but travelling down the back roads on the way home from work I still hanker after the Scooby as I bounce and bobble down the road.
Matt
Revo Kev
30-09-2003, 15:51
I've driven a fair few tuned Leon R's and also a couple of Scoobies, both make fantastic road cars even in standard form. Neither of them though make a fantastic track car (without a huge amount of work).
Having said that my opinion is that the driver makes the biggest difference, as well as the driver confidence in his/her car. It doesn't always take big BHP and high spec cars to be fast round the track.
I've seen a couple of very fast Ibiza's (for instance) on numerous circuits, these tend to have guy's driving them that not only know their cars but can also drive them fast (you know who you are!). I know these cars are capable of really showing up some supposedly faster machines, but this is because they are being driven to their potential.
ibizacupra
30-09-2003, 17:36
Originally posted by Revo Kev
I've driven a fair few tuned Leon R's and also a couple of Scoobies, both make fantastic road cars even in standard form. Neither of them though make a fantastic track car (without a huge amount of work).
Having said that my opinion is that the driver makes the biggest difference, as well as the driver confidence in his/her car. It doesn't always take big BHP and high spec cars to be fast round the track.
I've seen a couple of very fast Ibiza's (for instance) on numerous circuits, these tend to have guy's driving them that not only know their cars but can also drive them fast (you know who you are!). I know these cars are capable of really showing up some supposedly faster machines, but this is because they are being driven to their potential.
One of their names is Spiros I believe :p :lol2:
Do you have any brembo kits for the ibiza 20vt in stock bill???????.