View Full Version : Stereo head unit advice (iphone/ipod, moving towards subwoofer)
Mewcenary
19-07-2009, 10:24
Hi,
I've done a few searches on here but not found any specific recommendations.
I am after a new head unit for my Seat Leon. It currently has the standard one. I don't mind losing access to the CD changer in the glovebox: Who uses CDs ?! ;)
Basic requirements are, other than good sound, of course:
* Something nice! Looks good, nice colours etc.
* iPhone / iPod connectivity (Especially iPhone as I tend to use that for all my music now)
* I want to rig up a subwoofer. Not sure whether it is best to put this in the boot or go for an under-seat one. Advice please.
For the iPhone side of things I currently use a cassette adaptor but not ideal for sound quality, obviously. I want something better than this.
Thanks in advance.
6th.replicant
19-07-2009, 16:45
Looking at this myself.
Checkout the Alpine iDA-X305 (£250-ish). It's a receiver, so no built-in CD player (but it can play CDs via a stacker, [EDIT] but not the LCR's OEM unit - grrr!); iPod/iPhone compatible; screen displays cover artwork; handsfree*; FM/AM radio; subwoofer control; ace sound quality (24-bit Burr-Brown DAC etc); red illumination option, etc, etc...
And if you're thinking - as I did - that the iDA-X301 (£130-ish) looks to be the same machine minus the LCD screen for cover art & one or two other features &, therefore, offers the same sound-quality, consider that the X301 doesn't have a built-in DAC - it uses the iPod's DAC - whereas the X305's DAC is built-in. ;)
[EDIT] * It's only handsfree 'ready', so you have to buy a add-on Parrot Bluetooth gizmo.
Use a connects 2 clips into the cd changer connection in the back of the glovebox, then use the iphone (like i do) to choose the tracks :)
Mewcenary
19-07-2009, 16:56
Lee69 - can you clarify what you mean by this? Are you saying it is possible to run the iPhone audio via the CD changer unit?
The Alpine iDA-305 looks very nice, but if I have searched around correctly, it is not available in the UK just yet.
Yes you just press CD6 and it gets the sound from anything with a 3.5mm jack :)
6th.replicant
19-07-2009, 17:09
...
The Alpine iDA-305 looks very nice, but if I have searched around correctly, it is not available in the UK just yet.
It is in the UK:
http://www.dynamicsounds.co.uk/alpine-idax305-digital-media-receiver-p-8689.html
http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/alpine-ida-x305.html
http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showpost.php?p=2451037&postcount=123
:)
Mewcenary
19-07-2009, 17:49
Many thanks. That looks really neat. And it seems it comes with the cable to plug and go with the iPhone. Excellent. I can handle the 'loss' of CD player as I am struggling to remember when I last played one anyway.
So I guess I need:
1. The iDA-305 (duh!)
2. Wiring adaptor. http://www.dynamicsounds.co.uk/autoleads-pc2694-seat-ibiza-leon-toledo-wiring-harness-adaptor-lead-p-9237.html
3. Fascia adaptor. http://www.dynamicsounds.co.uk/autoleads-fp1800-seat-toledo-leon-ibiza-facia-panel-adaptor-p-365.html
I have a 2002 Seat Leon (not the new style).
Hmm, I guess I also need stereo removal keys for the current unit?? I couldn't see any for Seat listed. Any advice?
Does the above seem okay?
2 is not needed, the alpine comes with red and yellow on bullet connectors so you can sway over the live and ignition live anyway.
Key can be made or got of ebay cheaply.
777cupra
20-07-2009, 00:17
Alpine headunits are really good on Ipod connectivity, full speed control from the head unit and sound quality is good. Also good for if you want to get a subwoofer to, and generally expand your system.
As for under the seat for your sub...it would have to be tiny, so not much point! (and I've never seen one). However in the boot, plenty of room and will sound better!
Heres a pic of my ida x-100. Still looks similar to the 305.
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f196/ell0070/DSCF0102.jpg
And easy enough to run the ipod usb cable into the ashtray like a lot of peeps have done, or into the glovebox like my good self. Really easy to navigate the ipod menus with the control wheel, even the missus can work it:lol:
Mewcenary
20-07-2009, 09:56
My main concern is that I'm seeing various reviews now which state that the iPhone support is not very good (loss of audio/sync, needing force-reconnection etc).
My main concern is that I'm seeing various reviews now which state that the iPhone support is not very good (loss of audio/sync, needing force-reconnection etc).
I have an Alpine HU and i too was put off by the reviews that are around the internet.
But you have to remember that people only generally write a review about something when they dont like it.
Its true, a few older Ipods did have connectivity issues with the older head units, but newer ones are fine.
I went out and bought the HU anyway, even after reading the reviews, and i have never had a problem with it. Its excellent! :)
Mewcenary
20-07-2009, 10:29
Ah, but that's iPod, not iPhone :D
same difference in terms of playing music
MrBen2k7
20-07-2009, 13:24
I have an Alpine iDA-x305... best £270 I ever spent on my car...
GREAT piece of kit... looks amazing as you can change the colours to red...
http://i310.photobucket.com/albums/kk417/mrben2k8/IMG_0791.jpg
http://i310.photobucket.com/albums/kk417/mrben2k8/IMG_0794.jpg
The iPhone camera sucks... but you get the idea..
The iPhone interface is flawless.... charges the phone also which is very handy... I'd happily give it a 10/10... :funk: I run mine throught my iPhone 3G 16gb, my mates iPhone 3Gs works with it too... no problems at all, no loss of quality...
You won't need a wiring harness.... you MAY need a radio signal booster... only if you have a modded aerial..
Mewcenary
20-07-2009, 17:15
Thanks all for the advice. In the end I have gone for the CDE-104BTi, also by Alpine. I decided to go for this because:
1. Cheaper.
2. Retains the CD player (I hardly ever play CDs though, so this is not really a key point)
3. Bluetooth built in (Not something to pay more money for...)
I think the 305 does look really neat, I just decided not to stretch to it this time around!
6th.replicant
20-07-2009, 17:22
If you're thinking - as I did - that the iDA-X301 (£130-ish) looks to be the same machine minus the LCD screen for cover art & one or two other features &, therefore, offers the same sound-quality, consider that the X301 doesn't have a built-in DAC - it uses the iPod's DAC - whereas the X305's DAC is built-in. ;)
I have an Alpine iDA-x305... best £270 I ever spent on my car...
Can you please tell us how the iDA-x305's sound-quality compares with the OEM Aura?
Ta :)
MrBen2k7
20-07-2009, 19:14
Well, I got the all the gain levels on 0, I.E Bass and Treble... and it sounds the dogs.... So good, I removed my sub and amp as it was total over kill...
Very punchy, pretty loud, prob's let down by the stock speakers to be honest... but defiantly better than that piece of poo Aura thing i had before...
MrBen2k7
20-07-2009, 19:18
Thanks all for the advice. In the end I have gone for the CDE-104BTi, also by Alpine. I decided to go for this because:
1. Cheaper.
2. Retains the CD player (I hardly ever play CDs though, so this is not really a key point)
3. Bluetooth built in (Not something to pay more money for...)
I think the 305 does look really neat, I just decided not to stretch to it this time around!
You may not, but I think you'll regret it in the end... the Compact Disc is pretty much obsolete now... and having an iPhone means all your music is with you anyway... and you have full control over it. My blue tooth earpiece connects to it, and I didn't need to buy anything more.
Great piece of kit....
6th.replicant
20-07-2009, 19:29
... My blue tooth earpiece connects to it, and I didn't need to buy anything more.
Are you saying that when you use your iPhone as a phone, you talk through the earpiece but control the iPhone via the X305? :confused:
Ta :)
MrBen2k7
20-07-2009, 19:31
Well, I get a call, music fades out, Call comes into my ear when i push the button on the h/u. I can't make a call through the h/u itself, but it does the same thing if i make a call through the phone when its connected.
The earpiece is paired to the phone, not the h/u
6th.replicant
20-07-2009, 20:44
Well, I get a call, music fades out, Call comes into my ear when i push the button on the h/u. I can't make a call through the h/u itself, but it does the same thing if i make a call through the phone when its connected.
The earpiece is paired to the phone, not the h/u
OK, makes sense, thanks.
I can't decide where to place the iPod cable/connector doo-dah. Out of interest, where do you locate your iPhone in-car?
Ta :)
MrBen2k7
20-07-2009, 20:55
OK, makes sense, thanks.
I can't decide where to place the iPod cable/connector doo-dah. Out of interest, where do you locate your iPhone in-car?
Ta :)
Under the ashtrey, infront of the gear stick, the coin bit...
http://i310.photobucket.com/albums/kk417/mrben2k8/IMG_1024.jpg
My cable is a bit longer that I like it, and not hidden, because my mate is always 'Can I play JellyCar mate???' :whistle:
Doesn't slide around at all, but you could get one of those JML rubbery mats if you needed reassurance..
MrBen2k7
20-07-2009, 20:58
Very easy way to do it, with the h/u out, you can see into the driver foot well, with a coat hanger, or I used the OEM aerial I had just removed for my C2 one, and a rubber band, feed it through to the foot well... then just gently pull it through to the place where you see it, job done :-)
If I remember, the iPhone is too fat to fit in the ashtray...
daboy3000
21-07-2009, 09:25
Another vote for the Alpine, here's mine
http://www.bdeep.co.uk/fr/iDA.jpg
6th.replicant
21-07-2009, 13:56
Another vote for the Alpine, here's mine
http://www.bdeep.co.uk/fr/iDA.jpg
Bought my LCR from a bloke in Croydon... Anyway, how do you rate the iDA-X305's sound-quality compared to the Aura (assuming you still have standard speaker set-up?) & where have you placed the iPod cable?
Ta :)
MrBen2k7
21-07-2009, 14:04
Bought my LCR from a bloke in Croydon... Anyway, how do you rate the iDA-X305 compared to the Aura (assuming you still have standard speaker set-up?) & where have you placed the iPod cable?
Ta :)
I think my iDA-x305 is ace, and I use the stock speaker set up... Very punchy, and much better than the Aura crap I had before. Which occasionally would have little to no bass at all for what ever reason, turn it off and on again and its fine.
6th.replicant
21-07-2009, 14:24
I think my iDA-x305 is ace, and I use the stock speaker set up... Very punchy, and much better than the Aura crap I had before. Which occasionally would have little to no bass at all for what ever reason, turn it off and on again and its fine.
Thanks for your replies & advice Mr B. :)
Curious re your Aura, cos the one thing that my Aura does not lack is bass: if I crank up the bass tone-control to '+7' it rattles the windows, sends an alarming vibration through the seat-bottom (& mine :blink:) & gives that full-on 'dumm, dumm, dumm' effect that some folks seem to like. However, the mid-range sound is 'muddy' with an irritatingly harsh top-end treble - ie good hi-fi it ain't.
MrBen2k7
21-07-2009, 14:34
Well, The bass levels etc on my iDA-x305 are so good, that I took my sub out as it was total over kill, and I run it all on 0 gain levels and its prefect!
Rear view mirror and side mirrors shake enough to distort the reflection.... good sheeeeeeet!
6th.replicant
21-07-2009, 14:59
Well, The bass levels etc on my iDA-x305 are so good, that I took my sub out as it was total over kill, and I run it all on 0 gain levels and its prefect!
Ahh, good sound via 0 gain levels - 'tis the barometer of decent hi-fi. ;)
Will have a iDA-X305 installed asap (Weds or Thurs). :funk:
Mewcenary
21-07-2009, 15:06
The unit arrived but I just can't get the damn standard Auru unit out. I'm using the credit card trick but it is proving...tricky. Thing just isn't budging, although I'm sure I can feel the springs giving way behind the cards. Of course, I can't see them so I'm not sure...
Any tips ???
MrBen2k7
21-07-2009, 15:09
Go to a car garage and ask if they have any ejection pins, and you can borrow them... or halfords sell some or a car audio place will be able to get it out.
I borrowed some off a mates garage.
Mewcenary
21-07-2009, 15:44
Thanks! Unfortunately, and due to a pending bed delivery, I am stuck at home until that happens. So I can't escape to the local garage in order to get the keys. Annoying!
Hence fiddling with the credit cards...
Mewcenary
21-07-2009, 16:22
Got it!! I made the credit card slices more pointy, like the official tools, and it came straight out!
6th.replicant
21-07-2009, 17:04
Cock, cock, cock, cock, cock, cock, cock, cock, cock, cock - & thrice-more cock!!!! [:@]
Just phoned ICE shop to arrange iDA-X305 purchase/instal, & it turns out that the iDA-X305 is not compatible with the LCR's OEM CD stacker. Crap! :cry:
Really want to have a CD option when it comes to re-sale - just my luck that the only punters who'll be interested in buying my LCR will be non-iPod luddites!
However, turns out that the best CD- & iPod-playing alternative with red illumination option - Alpine CDE-103BT - is a) cheaper (£170 vs £250), b) has same sound-quality & c) has built-in Bluetooth/handsfree, which'll mean that if 'er indoors' is driving solo, then she can still use her iPhone (f-ing thing!) + all cables & iPods/iPhones will be out-of-sight in the glove-box (I'll use an iPod Classic, with CDs ripped as Apple Lossless files :D).
In hindsight, I actually prefer the CDE-103BT's more discreet appearance. :redface:
Erm, anyone know how to remove a OEM CD stacker from the glovebox...?
Mewcenary
21-07-2009, 17:05
Ok, new stereo is in. I swapped red/yellow as advised and it powers up and works correctly.
My next question is regarding the plumbing of the iPod connector cable (and also the microphone cable, come to that). What is the best way of routing this? How do I get back there to see what I am doing???
Edit: It connects to my iPhone fine, and I played some music loud... ahhh... so much better than running it through the cassette adaptor (bit obviously though!)
Erm, anyone know how to remove a OEM CD stacker from the glovebox...?
Pull of the plastic surround which exposes 2 screws.
6th.replicant
21-07-2009, 17:28
Pull of the plastic surround which exposes 2 screws.
Ta :)
6th.replicant
21-07-2009, 18:25
What the...?! Why's this thread been moved from the Mk1 Leon forum?
Surely it's only of interest, & relevant, to Mk1 Leon owners? :confused:
Mewcenary
22-07-2009, 07:41
I'm glad I keep packaging. The sound quality of the Alpine is AMAZING. I don't think I need the sub now as all the frequencies are so clear now. Admittedly, I am comparing this with the old cassette adaptor that I was using. Haha.
Anyway, I didn't realise when purchasing how weird Alpine's model numbering is. The 104BTi does NOT have the changable illumination but the 103BT does. The only difference is the former comes with the iPod cable. Which when taken into consideration, makes the price the same...
Bit weird that one has the illumination and the other one does not.
Soooo... thanks to Distant Selling Regulations I'll be swapping that out. Alpine's blue is just TOO blue (Even when dimmed on the buttons. Going for red, naturally, to match the other interior lights.
A minor point really as everything else is working great, although I think I need to pick up the powered aerial adaptor...
although I think I need to pick up the powered aerial adaptor...
Save your money and give the aerial the 12v it is missing after fitting the Alpine, Number 5 in the lowest connector in the diagram.
http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/4380/aurajs1a.jpg
daboy3000
22-07-2009, 08:33
Just phoned ICE shop to arrange iDA-X305 purchase/instal, & it turns out that the iDA-X305 is not compatible with the LCR's OEM CD stacker. Crap! :cry:
Really want to have a CD option when it comes to re-sale - just my luck that the only punters who'll be interested in buying my LCR will be non-iPod luddites!
Why do you need CD's these days, just stick all your tunes on a usb drive, i've got a 16GB one and it holds about 200 CD's worth.
As for resale, just keep all your old stuff and put that back in, but really who gives a shit about what stereo is in a car when you buy it?
MrBen2k7
22-07-2009, 09:11
If anything I'd prefer an after market stereo than the OEM one I am bound to rip out anyway..
I have had the aftermarket ones, alpine, pioneer.
I have gone back to the Aura with the connects2 ipod connector, as i got fed up taking the face out every time :)
As long as i can hear my music, I'm happy.
MrBen2k7
22-07-2009, 09:18
Lol, you must live in a rough area... I have never removed my faceplate.... Just use all the tools given to you in the box to secure it to your dash, and its going no where... plus you have an alarm... have faith in your car!!
Nope good area, better safe than sorry ;)
daboy3000
22-07-2009, 09:56
I leave it in when parked on my drive way but take it out everywhere else.
6th.replicant
22-07-2009, 12:12
Why do you need CD's these days, just stick all your tunes on a usb drive, i've got a 16GB one and it holds about 200 CD's worth.
Plenty of folks don't like MP3s' compressed sound (especially over-35s, according to statistics), it's why more DL sites are offering Lossless & FLAC - even iTunes is moving towards 256kbps AACs. Conversely, neither does everyone have an 120GB iPod loaded with 100s of CDs ripped as Lossless.
As for resale... who gives a shit about what stereo is in a car when you buy it?
Imagine this scenario: there're 2 LCRs for sale that are approx same price, age, mileage, condition etc & same colour, but one has audio that suits you, the other does not - which are you going to buy? Just want to keep my resale options open...
(Hmm, hang on, maybe I should incl my 120GB iPod when I sell the car - by then, it'll be worth sod-all 'cos a new/better version will be avlbl?!)
daboy3000
22-07-2009, 12:38
I RIP everything at 320kbps and have kept all my OEM stereo, life is too short to be worring about such minor things.
6th.replicant
22-07-2009, 13:06
I RIP everything at 320kbps and have kept all my OEM stereo, life is too short to be worring about such minor things.
Guess it depends on what floats yer boat - some folks are a bit, erm, anal re sound-quality/h-fi, some are not. :) (Don't get me started re upgrading power leads, interconnects & bi-wire speaker cable... :redface:)
320kbps? Cor, what a waste of your Alpine's 24-bit DAC.
320kbps? Cor, what a waste of your Alpine's 24-bit DAC.
I don't get it....
daboy3000
22-07-2009, 13:47
Guess it depends on what floats yer boat - some folks are a bit, erm, anal re sound-quality/h-fi, some are not. :) (Don't get me started re upgrading power leads, interconnects & bi-wire speaker cable... :redface:)
320kbps? Cor, what a waste of your Alpine's 24-bit DAC.
Been there done that, but prefure to have to boot space these days.
Whats the 24-bit DAC all about?
6th.replicant
22-07-2009, 15:53
... Whats the 24-bit DAC all about?
DAC - Digital-Analogue-Converter. Digital music formats - MP3, AAC, CD's AIFF etc - need to be converted to analogue so that they can be heard.
Most CD-based HUs use 1-bit DACs 'cos the sound-quality is easily extracted from CDs. However, 'cos non-CD HUs are relying, potentially, on MP3's inferior compressed sound, the manufacturers have to compensate, otherwise their HUs would sound very 'tinny'. :blink:
Hence, decent digital receiver HUs have a 24-bit DAC, a type normally found in quality home h-fi. [B)]
The larger the DAC, the more info it can extract & the more detailed the sound will be. And if you use larger, more detailed files - such as Lossless or AIFF - then a 24-bit DAC is able to effect more detail retrieval & overall transparency + you'll hear tighter, more articulate bass, a richer midrange & less flat, more expansive imaging. :D
Using 320kbps with a 24-bit DAC is the audio equivalent of having a 42-inch, 1080p hi-def plasma TV but only using it to watch VHS tapes instead of DVDs or BDs. ;)
daboy3000
22-07-2009, 16:16
So what type of file should i be using to maintain the compressed size but get the best sound quality.
Although i doubt i'll convert the 10,000 tracks i have in itunes but will start using it for the future.
6th.replicant
22-07-2009, 17:19
Unfortunately, there's no ideal compromise at present, options are 2-fold, & quite extreme: rip CDs as AAC/320kbps[EDIT] (better than MP3/320kbps, but not ideal) & maintain approx the same number of songs/tracks already on your USB drive. Or get an iPod Classic 120GB (awaiting deliv for mine), which'll take at least 200 CDs ripped in Lossless that will sound very crispy on your Alpine.
The latter seems extreme & a bit of an upheaval, but the way things are going we'll soon be DL-ing all our music in Lossless-type CD-quality - or even better, uncompressed files? - & streaming music wirelessly from desktop/laptops into our home hi-fi systems. iPods storage capacity seems to get bigger with each upgrade & the Naim Uniti has put the cat among the pigeons in the high-end hi-fi sector, so it won't be long before the Uniti's format is copied & avlbl for much fewer £s from other manufacturers. Plus, our ears will become re-educated as Blu-ray's uncompressed, 'pure' & high-detail sound becomes the norm.
As an experiment, why not rip the same music track (pick one that is obviously well recorded/mixed, as opposed to a 'Boom! Boom!') twice - 1 as Lossless, the other AAC/320kbps[EDIT] - to your USB drive, then play it on your Alpine & decide which format you prefer? :)
daboy3000
22-07-2009, 18:44
As an experiment, why not rip the same music track (pick one that is obviously well recorded/mixed, as opposed to a 'Boom! Boom!') twice - 1 as Lossless, the other AAC/iTunes Plus - to your USB drive, then play it on your Alpine & decide which format you prefer? :)
Thats a good idea, i can hear the difference when compressed at 320kbps as you can hear more of the frequency range, anything lower just sounds a bit weak.
Cheers for the info, you sound like you know your stuff. I produce music and hate sending demos to people as low bitrate mp3 coz they sound naff, i think i'm going to need to rip all my old cds again at some point.
MrBen2k7
22-07-2009, 23:15
You wanna use WAV files if you can...
6th.replicant
23-07-2009, 18:41
You wanna use WAV files if you can...
Wiki: "WAV (or WAVE), short for Waveform audio format, also known as Audio for Windows[2], is a Microsoft and IBM audio file format..."
Hmm, always get a bit twitchy when I see the words 'Windows' & 'Microsoft' in a product description. :blink:
A CD's standard file-type is AIFF, so if you want to rip with best-possible quality, then you might as well select AIFF in iTunes 'Import Settings' (via 'Preferences') - WAV can't improve or 'boost' AIFF files.
Below is an example of the same track's - Elbow's Grounds For Divorce - file size/kbps when ripped as AAC/320kbps, Apple Lossless, AIFF & WAV:
AAC/320kbps: 320kbps / 8.6KB
Apple Lossless: 1026kbps / 26.9MB
AIFF: 1411kbps / 37MB
WAV: 1411kbps / 37MB
Perhaps AAC/320kbps is the best compromise for 4-16MB iPods/iPhones when using earbuds, while Apple Lossless is best for 120MB iPods playing via earbuds or decent (Alpine!) HUs?
daboy3000
24-07-2009, 08:48
Does both the Alpine and iTunes play all these formats?
I used to have everything in wav format untill mp3 got so popular.
MrBen2k7
24-07-2009, 08:52
Oui...