View Full Version : modification on TDi's
monkeyboy888
13-09-2003, 14:53
Hi,
I wonder if there would do any improvment on performance-wise by modifiyin exhaust system, induction kit, etc on a 1.9TDi's?
Apart from the chipping or box tuning.
Cheers
:devil:
slim_boy_fat
13-09-2003, 18:26
Originally posted by monkeyboy888
Hi,
I wonder if there would do any improvment on performance-wise by modifiyin exhaust system, induction kit, etc on a 1.9TDi's?
Apart from the chipping or box tuning.
Cheers
:devil:
No offence but if you are going to mod a tdi the only cost effective mod is a tuning box or serial map...Everything else is more for show and people with too much money..
Why not chip?
It would be so easy to take an instant dislike to some one you've never met. You shouldn't be so dismissive of things you don't have. [SBF]
A performance exhaust sytem will help power output on any turbo'd car. Exhaust gases are used to spin the turbo up, if you can remove restrictions to the flow of gas the turbo will spool quicker and give less lag. This was very noticeable between 1000 and 3500 revs when I had it done on mine.
After I had had the exhuast fitted I noticed that whilst it rev'd to 3500 easily in most gears it had real difficulty in getting much further. I then decided to mod the airbox as some info I had read led me to believe that the ECU was throttling the power back due to lack of available air. I replaced the panel filter with a "green" cotton filter and widened the air intake. The car now revs freely and smoothly upto 4500.
It is also true that to get significant performance gains requires a remap of some description.
I agree with both Rage & SBF!:eek: :confused:
You'll deffo get some more (but not much).it'll cost you a small fortune though (especially if you go with something like supersprint).
I was actually thinking of working on the exhaust. My problem is finding something that won't resonate much (I don't want it to be loud) and with a downturning end pipe (like OE).
The downturning pipe helps with the sooth. Not that the car makes any less.
slim_boy_fat
14-09-2003, 08:04
Originally posted by Rage
It would be so easy to take an instant dislike to some one you've never met. You shouldn't be so dismissive of things you don't have. [SBF]
A performance exhaust sytem will help power output on any turbo'd car. Exhaust gases are used to spin the turbo up, if you can remove restrictions to the flow of gas the turbo will spool quicker and give less lag. This was very noticeable between 1000 and 3500 revs when I had it done on mine.
After I had had the exhuast fitted I noticed that whilst it rev'd to 3500 easily in most gears it had real difficulty in getting much further. I then decided to mod the airbox as some info I had read led me to believe that the ECU was throttling the power back due to lack of available air. I replaced the panel filter with a "green" cotton filter and widened the air intake. The car now revs freely and smoothly upto 4500.
It is also true that to get significant performance gains requires a remap of some description.
lolss, funny i have never found it a prob getting to 5000rpm on my car even as standard.
I think your missing the point, all other mods add up to about 5% of what can be achived though a re-map or box but cost combined 300% of said re-map or box.
I have been there and do it with mods for cars so i am as qualified as anyone on here, hence why the re-map and some lowerd springs are about the ony things i would do to the Beezer. Everything else is a waste of money for the return. As i said if i was so rich that money didnt matter then maybe i would get every mod under the sun.
I don't deny for one second that a chip or tuning box is the best value for money but the original question was framed towards exhaust and induction. Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm fairly sure I'm the only person on here with both done to their Mk4 TDI.
I think you'd be suprised how much of a difference both of these mods made to the car. The 130 engine does rev very freely as standard but I know Fen will back me up on this when I say that after having an exhaust fitted there was improved throttle response and the car rev'd more freely than it did.
On the 4th of Oct I will be attending a RR session with SCN. The results of adding an exhaust and some mods on the airbox will be clearly visible.
If the original question had been which should I spend money on, a chip/tuning box or an exhaust. Then the answer is obvious and the chip would win every time. There are large hidden costs to the chip though a 30% hike in performance carries a hefty insurance premium with it. Where as the 5-10bhp from an exhaust system doesn't have anywhere near that much of an insurance increase.
As monkeyboy888 is only just approaching his 21st birthday (according to his profile) I would imagine that insurance is a very big factor.
EDIT: spelling
My exhaust cost Ł280 including a decat. Not nothing, but hardly a fortune and it made a huge 'driveability' difference - quicker response, more power low down. I don't think it released much more peak power (but then 5% would have been 9bhp on my car) but it made the car nicer to drive.
I bought a green panel filter (Ł45) but never got around to fitting it, so I was obviously still after more. Beyond that I think the 'Air Rage' mods are SPT qualifying so cost next to nothing with plumbing supplies from B&Q.
Paulo,
Neither my car not Rage's have downturned exhaust tips and mine didn't soot itself (and it was Ovni remember, so it would have shown up - everything else certainly did :rolleyes: ) how about yours Si? Also I don't think you can get much noise out of a TDi. I had intended to run mine with neither the cat nor the bypass pipe to see how loud it was but for reasons I forget now I couldn't do it when I put the cat back in.
Slim,
I guess my take on the discussion is that a tuner is a tuner and they will always want to get the last 0.25bhp out of the car. Chipping has become so cheap, commonplace and low-risk that even non-tuners do it (it's something for next to nothing, really) to the point that I'm almost surprised when someone doesn't chip their car even if it's just a commuter / shopping trolley.
I don't knock either side of the fence but personally I'm one of the former and I've never had a car that's finished because of that. It's probably the same mentality as the Max Power boys except I value performance and they value individual looks.
Monkeyboy888,
The answer to your question is 'yes' but nowhere near what you'd get from a chip, regardless of how much you throw at the other mods.
I do get soot on the back of the car but then the back of the car attacts cr@p anyway so it blends in.
BeezerDiesel
14-09-2003, 11:01
As for sooting up the rear, the Fabia vRS has a 'normal' exhaust pipe not a downturned one.
Gleistung
14-09-2003, 11:23
A friendŽs Beezer will get a full custom-made direct exhaust system (no cat, no mufflers!), hopefully next week. HeŽll then get it dynoed for improvements. ;)
IŽm quite curious about this one, but iŽd say that a 6-8bhp improvement is almost for sure. At the same time heŽll get his Ractive foam intake back on (5bhp dynoed improvement) so it should be transformed in a beast, maybe at +190bhp (currently at 187bhp).
Then on to the final exam, to soot or not a Civic Type-R! :D
PS - IŽll try to get some pics from his exhaust/intake.
slim_boy_fat
14-09-2003, 19:22
Originally posted by Gleistung
A friendŽs Beezer will get a full custom-made direct exhaust system (no cat, no mufflers!), hopefully next week. HeŽll then get it dynoed for improvements. ;)
IŽm quite curious about this one, but iŽd say that a 6-8bhp improvement is almost for sure. At the same time heŽll get his Ractive foam intake back on (5bhp dynoed improvement) so it should be transformed in a beast, maybe at +190bhp (currently at 187bhp).
Then on to the final exam, to soot or not a Civic Type-R! :D
PS - IŽll try to get some pics from his exhaust/intake.
Dont forget the video clip too...
slim_boy_fat
14-09-2003, 19:30
Originally posted by monkeyboy888
Hi,
I wonder if there would do any improvment on performance-wise by modifiyin exhaust system, induction kit, etc on a 1.9TDi's?
Apart from the chipping or box tuning.
Cheers
:devil:
Sorry monkeyboy i clearly am unable to answer your question as i don't have any of the above mods on my car...
However, my origional answer still stands, why not chip?
As Fen says its almost more surprising for someone these days not to have there turbo diesel chipped.
driveforward
14-09-2003, 19:40
Originally posted by Fen
I'm almost surprised when someone doesn't chip their car even if it's just a commuter / shopping trolley.[/B]
Sooty is unchipped don't forget! The October RR day is rapidly approaching, and I can't wait to find out some figures, as I'm sure many would find the 'free' turbo mod interesting depending upon the results.
Originally posted by Rage
I do get soot on the back of the car but then the back of the car attacts cr@p anyway so it blends in.
A bird decorated the back of my car on Thursday - bearing in mind it hasn't rained, with 2 days worth of driving you can't see it thanks to all the soot - and for those that don't know, my pipes point downwards.
Ian
The only reason why I was thinking of the down turned rear pipe was because I've seen a couple of reprogrammed golf, that sent out serious amounts of smoke. After changing the endpipe a couple of month latter, the smoke seemed to be alot less. I guess some of it gets glued to the asphalt!
Beside I really don't want to be cytting the rear plastic apron.
I'll just chip (ha!) in my 10p's worth. In my opinion, the best tuning mods are (in order):
- Suspension
- Brakes
- more power
Though for track use, I'd reverse suspension and brakes.
Yes I know it's slightly off topic but there you have it.
Another point worth considering, is no's 0ne and two are "insurance friendly".
Enjoy....
Why mod the brakes? I didn't notice any fade whatsoever on track. They seemed to be more than up to the job.
Originally posted by slim_boy_fat
lolss, funny i have never found it a prob getting to 5000rpm on my car even as standard.
I think your missing the point, all other mods add up to about 5% of what can be achived though a re-map or box but cost combined 300% of said re-map or box.
I have been there and do it with mods for cars so i am as qualified as anyone on here, hence why the re-map and some lowerd springs are about the ony things i would do to the Beezer. Everything else is a waste of money for the return. As i said if i was so rich that money didnt matter then maybe i would get every mod under the sun.
the point being that making the exhaust less restrictive and the inlet less retrictive all help. then include that with a jabba remap and hey presto.
slim_boy_fat
23-09-2003, 08:36
Originally posted by DaveP
Why mod the brakes? I didn't notice any fade whatsoever on track. They seemed to be more than up to the job.
Indeed, the order you do the mods would depend on what the car was like to start with. i.e. you wouldnt mod the brakes on an LCR first as they a pretty good to start with, the Sports brakes arnt too shabby either, esp on the road.
Emmmm... I was talking in general here. Though in my opinion, for track use, the brakes can never be good enough! Mind you, this is the order that I am looking at things in this particular motor (NB. suspension now sorted... well as good as it can get within reason). Though I always accept that other people have their own opinion.
Enjoy....:)
agree with mike in certain circumstances... always make sure you can stop before upgrading the power... id rather be able to stop quick and go ok, rather than go fast and not be able to stop.
But if the spec of whats there already is suitable then its ok to update the other parts.
I agree as well. How does the saying go:
Power without control is nothing....
it's turned in to a tyre advert
Originally posted by vibrio
it's turned in to a tyre advert
LOL yes now I remember ;)