View Full Version : Toledo V5 vs Leon 20VT
maxthehound in particular, what do you think of your Leon Cupra v the Toledo 170hp?
My wife has just smashed up her Toledo 150hp (which was crap ride, handling, performance compared to the 20VT) but I'm tempted to buy a new 170hp V5 which I can get cheap from Ireland.
Why did you move to the Cupra? Bet you miss that enormous boot!
Cupramax
08-08-2001, 12:55
Hmmmm difficult question.
The Toledo, (and I've had both an original 150 and the 170) is an excellent car but is totally different in character to the Leon Cupra. As you probably know from the forums the Leon has had lots of bits and bobs removed from it recently. The Toledo has all the toys you could ever want to be honest. Electric memory half leather & alcantara seats, cruise control, trip computer, CD/radio display on the dash, traction control etc etc plus they've uprated the suspension and brakes on the 170 cars. Do not mistake it for a sporty car though. Yes it is quick now the 20 valve motor has been installed and probably little different from a standard Leon but the V5 engine is just superb for wafting around with no effort but it isn't suited to being hammered like the Leon although it sounds superb.
I only changed over to the Leon because of the tuning potetial and I am intending to get the Oettinger turbo upgrade once mines got a couple of thousands miles on it.
To be honest I really miss my Toledo and when I discovered various bits had been taken off the Leon I was well p***ed off.
It was quite amusing when I got the first Toledo and nobody new what it was as I had it from April 99 when they first came over here. I once had a guy in an M3 come over in a petrol station and ask what it was.....!!!
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Thanks for that.
Hey my 20VT has got the full on board computer a la V5 (it's an import) and I don't really miss the cruise and arm rest!!
We've got a couple of little uns so the wife keeps harping on about needing boot space but doesn't want a booted car! ie. she prefers a hatch, women eh...
Do you really think it's worth spending over £4k for the upgraded turbo etc especially when you've got a Clio 172 to play with as well???
I'm thinking about getting a new Civic Type R as well.... Decisions, decisions....
Cupramax
08-08-2001, 13:39
£4K!!!!?? I wasn't aware it was that much.... even after what I'd payed it would be 5 grand less than an Audi S3 with the same power.. BARGAIN.
The other thing I meant to say was my Leon doesn't feel anywhere near as well built either of the Toledo's. I know my first Toledo was built in Belgium at the VW Golf/Bora plant. I think the Leon's are now built in Spain and it shows.....
Max
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20vt - has your Leon import got all the UK spec bit and bobs ? Things like both front and rear lecky windows or is the EU 20VT Sport fitted with only front leckys.
I'm tempted to buy via Wim but not 100% sure that the car he could supply has all the UK bits attached (I know ESP, Climatronic, CD changer are optional extras). Perhaps you can set my mind at rest ?
Yorkie
P.S Nice to see that you get the computer though - what type of stuff does it give you ?
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[This message has been edited by yorkie (edited 08 August 2001).]
Yorkie
Nobody, I repeat NOBODY, has got a better spec Leon than me!!! http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/smile.gif
Even the original Cupra spec in this country didn't have the full on board computer, which gives outside temp, average mileage, overall mileage, time travelled, mileage left in tank, etc
When you order from abroad just make sure that you specify all the options that you want. I specced mine up to be same as original Cupra spec (ie. full leather, ESP, auto wipers, dipping mirrors, etc). To be honest I don't know if the full on board computer was a build mistake. Wouldn't surprise me knowing Seat!
I think the 4 electric windows are standard now. The rears used to come with the full leather option, iirc
Go on get it ordered, you know you want to!
My fathers imported MY01 Leon TDi SE has the full on board computer and 4-off Lekky Windows.
You tellin' me these are not UK std???
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JONSPOPE
08-08-2001, 15:11
My 20VT Leon came with Both onboard computer and rear elec windows but has'nt got the dashboard radio display or rear power socket. So I think I did ok on the deal. Agree about build quality, not as good as I was led to believe in the hype. Did anyone else's Imported Leon come with Goodyear tyres?
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Apologies, actually i was talking shite there cos i haven't got Sat Nav or the winter pack. What I meant was the spec is better than any Seat UK supplied car I've heard of. It'll be really funny if the on board computer only appears on grey imports http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/biggrin.gif
Dean Bufton
08-08-2001, 20:58
Same as mik really, my Leon TDi SE has.....
On-board computer.
4 x Elec Windows.
Folding Mirrors (not sure about reversing dip).
Rear power socket.
TCS.
No dashboard radio display.
No headphone sockets.
mik, I'm assuming that this is UK spec, although my model is apparently 2002!
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Deano (Leon Tdi SE)
Cupramax
08-08-2001, 22:55
Talking of trip computers and back to the original subject.... the UK spec Toledo V5 now has the satnav stuff as standard. Me thinks SEAT aren't selling enough of them due to the £17K asking price and are now stuffing all the bits they've taken off the Leon onto the Toledo.
20VT... where did you get that 4 grand price for the Otteinger turbo upgrade? SJB do a 230hp jobby for £2500. Funny, I've just notice they're now doing a 210bhp chip as well as the normal 195 one. Anybody know the difference appart from the blatantly obvious more boost?
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dean Bufton:
Same as mik really, my Leon TDi SE has.....
On-board computer.
4 x Elec Windows.
Folding Mirrors (not sure about reversing dip).
Rear power socket.
TCS.
No dashboard radio display.
No headphone sockets.
mik, I'm assuming that this is UK spec, although my model is apparently 2002!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Dean - yup....same as my dads (which defo doesn't have reverse dip)
If yours IS UK spec MY02 then it should also come with CD changer as standard (like mine will.....hurry-up, hurry-up, hurry-up!)
What colour did you go for (just out of nosiness!)
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my Leon 20vt was also imported and came with full onboard computer (current MPG = 32), however the cd autochanger I specified didn't materialise - have since added this easily enough. Shame they have messed with the spec so much - uncertainty all-round.
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Just thought I would post my 2 pence worth on the Cupra vs Toledo.
Compared to the Leon, the Toledo V5, is Gutless, it has no pull in any gear and almost caused me to have a lorry drive into the side of me on a roundabout on the track day the pullaway was so poor.
So performance compared to the Cupra is cack.
Saying this though, you have to apprecitae that the Toledo is a differnet beast. Its a long distance drive. Very comfortable, steers a bit like a whale, great for your over 40's.
I wonder If I start a flame war here http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/smile.gif
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Lee Shand
www.seatcupra.net (http://www.seatcupra.net)
Cupramax
09-08-2001, 14:00
I think the V5 you were driving must have had something wrong with it because the V5 motor is tuned for torque and not outright power unlike the Leon. My V5 was always pretty quick off the mark but ran out of steam at the top end.(hence they've now given it a 20 valve head)
One of my mates has a MkIII golf VR6 and there was very little difference between his car and my V5. Perhaps I just got a good loose motor.....
Max
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Max I was obviously getting confused about the prices. Perhaps £4K was the price for the supercharger I was thinking about putting on the V6 Cupra http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/wink.gif
have you thought about going the upsolute route
v. cheap and get good reviews try www.upsolute.com (http://www.upsolute.com)
Lee, I agree with Max, our old V5 150hp used to purr along at 135 no probs with some left! My 20VT struggles to hit 135 in 6th so I had to drop a cog at which point I was bouncing into the red http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/wink.gif Thinking about it I was going up a bit of an incline though http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/biggrin.gif
DWAWOL, back me up here. I drove 2 Toledo's at the Offcial SEAT track day, and they were both like it http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/smile.gif
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Lee Shand
www.seatcupra.net (http://www.seatcupra.net)
Cupramax
09-08-2001, 22:25
I'm sure there must have been something wrong to cause this. My Toledo 150 never missed a beat and as I say it always pulled well, and after driving several reasonably pokey company cars over the years including a Sierra 2.9 XR4X4 & Cavalier GSI 16V 4X4 I couldn't believe the traction that was avialable in this 2wd car . I had it from new in April 99 and apart from the crap I had trying to get an immobiliser problem sorted the motor never once missed a beat.
I always thought the best feaure of the car was the way it pulled away if you stomped on it from a standing start. I know I'm a sad b*stard but I surprised quite a few cars away from the lights that should have beaten it including a twat in a 2.5 v6 alfa 155. You cant do that in something that struggles to pull away well now can you.......
Max
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ibizacupra
09-08-2001, 22:52
This would'nt be fly by wire probs would it?
Bill
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http://www.badger5.co.uk
Did u guys read the 3 way review in AutoExpress a month or so ago. They timed the new V5 at 6.9 secs 0-60!!!! Try that in a 20VT http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/biggrin.gif
Lee m8 did you check that the mat wasn't stuck under the pedal http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/wink.gif
Also our V5 never had a single problem in 18 months and 18k miles and I'll say again the build quality was miles better than the Leon shit that comes from Spain. Like Max says until recently they were built next to the Bora in Belgium. The Black metallic paintwork on the wifes was hard as rock!!
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cupraman:
DWAWOL, back me up here. I drove 2 Toledo's at the Offcial SEAT track day, and they were both like it http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/smile.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yep you're not wrong.....trust me, a bloody great lorry bearing down on us and the car barely moving is not something I'll forget too quickly! http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/eek.gif
Cheers
Andy
Nope nothing wrong with the cars. They were just shite http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/smile.gif
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Lee Shand
www.seatcupra.net (http://www.seatcupra.net)
Cupramax
10-08-2001, 08:53
Seems like we've thrown up a whole can of worms here. Perhaps SEAT's press guys were having a laugh with you and had rebadged 1.9TDi's as V5's.....
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Blimey Lee, I've come to the conclusion you guys can't drive http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/wink.gif
Like I say, the Leon is a much better car, but I don't like you guys dissing a very good motor, especially one that is a Seat http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/biggrin.gif
I guess AutoExpress must have got Eddie Irvine in to get a 6.9 sec 0-60 out of the V5 http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/wink.gif
Cupramax
10-08-2001, 10:06
Yep... got to agree with 20VT on this one. Toledo isn't a racing car despite the 0-60 times, but it is an absolute hoot compared with mondeo/vectra/laguna shite.
What issue was that Autocar test and what other cars did it beat?
Max
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JONSPOPE
10-08-2001, 13:05
Just been on the Seat web site to check out the spec on the Toledo, WOW, you get every toy there is, what a spec. A very attractive package when compared to the oppostion (who cares if there's no space in the back I don't sit there) As the car in a relative unknown I'd be worried about the residuals.
Shame about the name (a mate had an old Triumph Toledo back in 82 & I can't seem to get the image out my head) & the dire rear end though, I'll stick with the Leon till I'm over 40 or get a company car.
Here's a thought, aint it strange that when a new car comes out it seems to be the bollocks and trashes everything, then 6 months later (just about when your import arrives) the press say it now crap & there's something better. Examples Ford Puma, Seat Leon Cupra
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