View Full Version : Revo....AmD....Jabbasport?! Decisions!!
Im getting close to joining the other members of this forum who are lucky enough to have had their TDI's remapped, or spoon fed the engine with shredded wheat, whatever you want to call it!
I've been looking around a bit at different options that i have with regards to getting a remap.
REVO: this is the obvious choice for anyone that has used seatcupra.net. The revo guys are well respected on the whole and seem to have a product that a lot of people use and are happy with. It seems reliable and is switchable, which is a big advantage to most people that perform the upgrade, for one reason or another. It costs £499 plus £250 for the switchable software. Power is approx 180bhp and 295ft/lbs after remap.
AmD: I emailed them the other day.....
Hi Jon,
You will gain around 30+BHP & 40+FT Lb of Torque, it will take around 3
hours & cost £550 + VAT.
this works out at £646.25 for approx 160bhp and 270ft/lbs. This software, as far as i am aware to date is unswitchable.
Jabbasport: After consulting their website, http://www.jabbasport.com/tdi.html (http://) it seems that jabbasport offer a remap that will cost £425 and produce power outputs of 190bhp (avg) and 310ft/lbs (avg)on the PD 130 engine. This software IS switchable but only by revisiting a main dealer and after 3 times of reverting it to base map, will incur a small charge.
Up until a few days ago, i was set on getting Revo to do my upgrade as and when i am ready to do so. After researching a little, i am really quite tempted by Jabbasport. I know its not as manageable as the revo software with regards to switching it back to base map, but for value and power gains, it certainly seems to rate high up there!
My question is this....Are there any people who have used Jabbasport for the TDI software? i know a few people who have used them for other things and they seem very reliable and the products seem extremely good etc....but i dont know anyone that has had the TDI upgrade. As i am considering this for myself, i would really appreciate any feedback that anyone has on the Jabbasport TDI software.
thanks :)
:cheers:
muddyboots
07-10-2003, 08:04
Jono
A point to note - AmD might not quote a high power gain, but my ABT chip only claims 155bhp, whereas in reality on some cars it's shown to give over 170bhp (Niall!).
So it might be worth seeing if that's a "nominal" power/torque figure, or a real one...but I must admit it does seem rather pricey compared to Jabba.
Not sure if this helps - as i had it done on a Petrol - but Jabba offer a boost controller as well, which allows you switch back to 'std' whenever you like..
My car is running the ABT Chip from day one. And i spared the car 500Km's before i started giving it some welly. DAF truck's in the Netherlands run their engines on full wack for 20 min's when cold to maximise power and give the lowest consumption. After that they are run easy for while before using them to their maximum.
I've rad several things on the internet, that when a standard TDI is run on the rolling road a figure of 145 Bhp is reached. Take into account about 25 BHP which the standard chip's deliver and you have 170 BHP. All with the manufacturers guarantee..!!! and boy am i lucky i've got that seeing i'm in a legal fight with my dealer..!!!!!
slim_boy_fat
07-10-2003, 08:51
I shredded wheat a day in the tank, that all you need.
The best and cheapest thing i could do for my cars perfomance now is loose 4 stone!!:eek:
Im thinking about this aswell, what about tunit any good
thanks for your replies guys. i wish i had known about the factory chip when i got mine, i probably would have done that!
just got off the phone to jabbasport. there are two options for the chip, either the custom (£425) or the serial port (£365) method. Unlike the petrol engines, these options produce pretty similar results on a diesel so if you arent bothered about the extra few horsepower (i was quoted somewhere in the region of 5hp) then it is just as well to go for the serial port option, which as well as being cheaper has the capability of producing near to the 190bhp mark. The price by the way, includes 2 dyno runs, before and after.
As regards to it being switchable, on the diesels (obvs didnt ask about petrols) the only option is to take it back to them and they will remove the software (eg if you want the car serviced) then take it back to them and they will put it back on, free of charge for the first 3 times. Having said that tho, if noone drives it they will not be aware that anything has been done as it wont flash up on diagnostics. This is really the only thing that is a sticking point for me.......i mean, how important is it to be able to have complete control over switching it on and off? Something to think about i spose...on the one hand, it would appear to be extremely good value even if i have to go back to switch it (145miles there and same back), and on the other hand, if you get the sps1 with revo....at least its always there if you need it!
The chap at Jabba was really helpful. (01733 211779). He did say that they havent had any mk4 beezers in yet, but they have got bookings for and have done Fabias and lots of Golfs on the 130 engine....one of the golfs left with no fewer than 196bhp!
A guy on Briskoda had his Fabia vRS done at Star performance.. with only 80 miles on the clock (v tight engine) he got 185bhp and 304lb/ft of torque :eek:
im not sure which route i am going to go with my Fabia.. tempted by AmD and cruise control.. or by jabba for high numbers!.
they are impressive figures! whilst on the phone it was pointed out to me that its not just the performance that is good but also the smoothing out and widening of the power bands as well, which is what you would want to expect from any company!
I have to say tho that i was put off by AmD because of the high price and relatively medioka gains, which was disappointing because a friend used them for his cupra R and was very pleased! used to pull like a train well past 125mph! ;)
Well I am of course biased towards REVO but I was influenced by the price at the time which was a special offer at the time of £395 inc vat. I bought the SPS1 about 5 months later at the standard price.
Overall the REVO remap has smoothed out the throttle response and improved consumption especially on long motorway runs where 60+mpg on the trip computer is easily obtainable. If I was in the market again for such a thing I think I would be going through the same dilema as yourself but now with hindsight I think I would still go with REVO even though it is more expensive as the backup is second to none and they have quite a good dealer setup now.
That's my pennies worth hope it helps.
another vRS owner back from AmD this time...
181bhp and 320lb/ft
thats alot of torque!!!
181bhp and 320lb/ft :yikes:
On a tight motor too !!
those are certainly impressive figures! if i got 320ft/lbs tho i would be looking up the prices of a new clutch! i know what im like with launches, dont know if i would be able to control myself! just had a look at the AmD site (which wasnt working last time, hence i emailed them) and the power claims there are a lot better than the ones i was told in the email. ie 185+bhp instead of 160bhp! I still think they are a little pricey tho.....(im presuming that there isnt any switchable software incl. as i couldnt see it mentioned...)
aceman, thanks for your views on revo. customer service post chipping is very important to me so i appreciate what you are saying there. the guy from jabbasport was really good on the phone and im sure after sales service would be fine, but as you say, revos dealer network is good now, there is one just up the road from me!! its a difficult one......specially when jabbasport are nearly half the price! (anyone from revo want to make me an offer?! :redface: :D)
i tell you one thing tho....before long, there are going to be one heck of a lot of nutty skodas going about ruining peoples days!! i think thats hilarious!! good on them!!
I've seen quite a few reprog's done here in Portugal. On the 130 I've seen from 160 to 204hp (torque from 360Nm to 404Nm).
Numbers aren't everything, I rode in the 204hp ibiza and found it a bit peaky + the amount of sh@t coming out the exhaust was incredible. It was so thick you could open up holes in the cloud with you hands!
Actually thought the 160hp was the best I saw at the RR event. It went flat @165 from 3960rpm to almost 5000rpm.
160hp in an A4 tdi 130:
http://minhas-imagens.planetaclix.pt/tol/dyno_27_9_2003/caracol.gif
muddyboots
08-10-2003, 08:16
prc -> Which make was the 160bhp chip ?
Jono,
You can only get the factory chip in holland. The Seat importer in holland gives the warranty on the chipping. Think of it as an extra option.
Muddy,
My lawyer is hammering down on the dealer now. The are getting five day's to give me the money back or we will see you in court..!!!!
Niall
Originally posted by muddyboots
prc -> Which make was the 160bhp chip ?
It was a local company that does reprograming via the serial port. The damn thing was wicked fast. On the ++ side it would rev easily to 4800rpm, which for everyday use is not really used, but excellent on trackdays.!:D
Actually the dyno plot of my car does about the same, just tapers off a bit sooner.
Trying to convince the Revo guys to develope a trackday/racing program for diesels (using the SPS2).:D
muddyboots
08-10-2003, 12:32
Cheers prc, I just wondered if the 160 might have beet the ABT chip that I've got. It only claims 155 but Niall's gives 172bhp...
I might get mine RR'd later this year (when it's nice and cold!) just to see what I'm really getting, and the shape of the curves. I haven't driven any others to compare, but mine seems to spin very easily past 4500 rpm...
Lee,
Have you got yourself a performance filter yet..?? Really help's the spin up of the turbo. Makes it feel less nervous.
Niall
From what I've been reading the filter & good exhaust don't really give you any hp, but they due help turbo spooling times.
Simon (Rage) noticed quite good improvements when he de-Cat'ed and added a Green filter. He has since worked on getting more air into the OE box (the ibiza has a rather small airbox).
I might be doing something like what's described here (http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=666711&page=1)
Paulo looks good.
The thing diesel engines need to run is air. The more air the better and the cooler the better as well. The problem with the Ibiza is that everything is fully packed in the engine room.
Offtopic:
Been having some sideways fun with my dad's 2003 E200 Cdi. Lovely weather the rain. ESP let's you go quite far..!!!
Originally posted by Niall
Paulo looks good.
The thing diesel engines need to run is air. The more air the better and the cooler the better as well. The problem with the Ibiza is that everything is fully packed in the engine room.
Offtopic:
Been having some sideways fun with my dad's 2003 E200 Cdi. Lovely weather the rain. ESP let's you go quite far..!!!
Try it in a 320CDI:D :D :D
I'll have to look for some pics of Rage's "Air Rage induction kit".
prc.. any luck getting the pick of the N75 for me?:redface:
Originally posted by sssstew
prc.. any luck getting the pick of the N75 for me?:redface:
Sh@t I knew I forgot something this weekend :redface: :redface: What an IDIOT!!!. Sorry mate. :redface: :redface:
Jotted it down with alarm on the PDA. I've got a few things to do this week at the shop, so I'm sure I'll be able to get it during the week. Will stick memo w/alarm on mobile as well.
Paulo,
E320 cdi is a bit out of the price range. Cars cost a fortune here anyway. A standard Ibiza 130 TDI costs 22000 Euro's. Prices have gone up due to the many car's being exported to other parts of europe. This because holland had the lowest net price. But now has the highest price after tax..!!!!!!!:mad:
Originally posted by Niall
Paulo,
E320 cdi is a bit out of the price range. Cars cost a fortune here anyway. A standard Ibiza 130 TDI costs 22000 Euro's. Prices have gone up due to the many car's being exported to other parts of europe. This because holland had the lowest net price. But now has the highest price after tax..!!!!!!!:mad:
Are you sure about that? We get taxed on engine displacement. The best selling ibiza is the 1.4tdi cus the 1.9tdi ibiza sport costs 26130€ at the moment.:mad:
My friends 320cdi station cost almost 75000€
If you add to that what most people earn (Portugal has one of the lowest avg wages) you'll see that it's actually pretty bad.:( :( :(
cheers dude... much appreciated. :cheers:
slim_boy_fat
08-10-2003, 19:45
Originally posted by Niall
Paulo,
E320 cdi is a bit out of the price range. Cars cost a fortune here anyway. A standard Ibiza 130 TDI costs 22000 Euro's. Prices have gone up due to the many car's being exported to other parts of europe. This because holland had the lowest net price. But now has the highest price after tax..!!!!!!!:mad:
That really not much more than in the UK. While our diesel costs near 5 euro per gallon:eek:
Originally posted by slim_boy_fat
That really not much more than in the UK. While our diesel costs near 5 euro per gallon:eek:
WOW! That's expensive. Ours comes out to about 2.65€ per gallon.
slim_boy_fat
08-10-2003, 20:01
Originally posted by prc
WOW! That's expensive. Ours comes out to about 2.65€ per gallon.
Thats why diesel car buying is grown fast in the UK. That and they are better than petrol. :D
muddyboots
08-10-2003, 20:45
Originally posted by Niall
Lee,
Have you got yourself a performance filter yet..?? Really help's the spin up of the turbo. Makes it feel less nervous.
Niall
Ey up Niall
No, haven't got a filter yet. To be honest I'm a bit nervous about MAF problems....
But the idea of making the turbo spin up a bit earlier is quite appealing...might stop the smoke cloud when it does start to spin up too !
Simon, could you get up a pic of the Air Rage Induction Kit? Can't seem to find it.
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/x_entity/images/newbits/SPT_600.jpg
hows that
Lee,
MAF's are warranty items and in GB you get three years. So why not. Found out some more info about the ABT chips. ABT get there code direct from VW and AUDI. This means that there cars are the smoothest of all chipped diesel's according to a german magazine. That's why consumption is not to bad and they don't go to the max. Tested on the testtrack over 100.000km's and no problems.
SBF,
How much roadtax do you pay a year..??? Mines roughly 520 pounds...!! And no 0% finance or free insurance here and only two years warranty. GB hasn't got it that bad. But then again if you pay peanuts you get monekys for the rest of the services.
Niall
muddyboots
09-10-2003, 08:28
Niall -> I only get 2 years warranty 'cos I imported from Holland. (The 3rd year of GB warranty is limited to 60k miles, which I'd reach after 2 years anyway...!)
Good to hear the info about the ABT chip, though I reckon some of the Revo guys get better fuel consumption AND more power ! Nice to hear about the extensive testing though. Where do you find this info from ??
A german magazine Autobild. It's like Autoexpress. They do articles on various things. They bought a VW Golf TDI and had 5 different tuners do there best. Car was tested in the VW research center in Wolfsburg. ABT turned out to be the best. SKN Tuning came second partly because of high consumption and big power deliveries and smoke. Three others didn't come close. Another time they asked several tuners to supply an A4 130 TDI for tests and the same results were had.
On another site in holland there is someone with a 180 Bhp A4 V6 TDI who had his car tuned by the dutch Importer(ABT) and after 8 month's ABT couldn't sort the tuning out. Due to Audi changing the code's. According to the owner audi change the code's often to prevent tuning. Only ABT gets the changed one's and even then it couldn't be solved. Thus the owner is getting a car to replace this one after his lawyer came down on them like a ton of brick's.
AUDI and ABT do the DTM TT's.:devil:
slim_boy_fat
09-10-2003, 11:34
Originally posted by Niall
Lee,
SBF,
How much roadtax do you pay a year..??? Mines roughly 520 pounds...!! And no 0% finance or free insurance here and only two years warranty. GB hasn't got it that bad. But then again if you pay peanuts you get monekys for the rest of the services.
Niall
lolss, on ours is only £115-£180 depending on the car. Insurance seems to be high here and 40% income tax is abit pants.
Mind you only about 15% or the money collected from roads taxation is spent on the roads..or transport...Hence our problems.
40% tax is about the standard rate of income tax. The high bracket is about 60%. At least you've got three lane motorways. Over here most are two an when shit head lorry drivers start overtaking you get a mobile traffic jam of about a mile. All these foreign lorry's from poland etc etc.
slim_boy_fat
09-10-2003, 13:12
Originally posted by Niall
40% tax is about the standard rate of income tax. The high bracket is about 60%. At least you've got three lane motorways. Over here most are two an when shit head lorry drivers start overtaking you get a mobile traffic jam of about a mile. All these foreign lorry's from poland etc etc.
Dond worry with the sea level rises over the next 50 years your country will be under water and it will be boats you need not cars :p
Originally posted by Niall
A german magazine Autobild. It's like Autoexpress. They do articles on various things. They bought a VW Golf TDI and had 5 different tuners do there best. Car was tested in the VW research center in Wolfsburg. ABT turned out to be the best. SKN Tuning came second partly because of high consumption and big power deliveries and smoke. Three others didn't come close. Another time they asked several tuners to supply an A4 130 TDI for tests and the same results were had.
On another site in holland there is someone with a 180 Bhp A4 V6 TDI who had his car tuned by the dutch Importer(ABT) and after 8 month's ABT couldn't sort the tuning out. Due to Audi changing the code's. According to the owner audi change the code's often to prevent tuning. Only ABT gets the changed one's and even then it couldn't be solved. Thus the owner is getting a car to replace this one after his lawyer came down on them like a ton of brick's.
AUDI and ABT do the DTM TT's.:devil:
Agree in part.
ABT is an "in house" tuning company, so I'm sure they get great stuff out 1st, but that doesn't mean that other don't/won't eventually do the same. Then there are the MAX tuners that get alot of HP out, but don't take into account reasonible fuel economy and the pillows of smoke coming out the rear.
As I always tell everyone, I was really surprised that the REVO SW made my car alot smoother than it was originally.
I've had the REVO SW on for over 45000km now, and it still puts a smile on my face.
40% tax is about the standard rate of income tax
WOW thats high, whats the average wage in Holland!!?
Darren
slim_boy_fat
09-10-2003, 20:52
Originally posted by darren7
WOW thats high, whats the average wage in Holland!!?
Darren
Bet the average mortgage on Hollnd isnt around £900 per month.
Originally posted by slim_boy_fat
Dond worry with the sea level rises over the next 50 years your country will be under water and it will be boats you need not cars :p
Yeah, if everything goes as predicted I'll have beach front property in 40yrs.:D :D
As for the avg mortgage I don't know, but £900 is more than the avg monthly salary in Portugal.:redface: :mad: :mad:
A friend of mine bought a house not long ago and it was about 200.000 Euro's and his morgate was about 700 pounds a month before tax rebate. Then it's about 400 pounds a month.
Then there is a lot of extra things that add up to that. The average wage before tax will be about 1000 pounds. We also have to pay extra healthcare insurance. Dentists and so on are only covered for 75%. And insurance on car's go by catalog value and weight. The bigger the car and heavier and if it's a diesel the more you pay in tax and insurance.
Best place to live is probably germany or belgium and then commute to holland. Cheap housing and tax advantages and Cheap cheap fast cars..!!!
Niall
slim_boy_fat
10-10-2003, 11:02
Originally posted by Niall
A friend of mine bought a house not long ago and it was about 200.000 Euro's and his morgate was about 700 pounds a month before tax rebate. Then it's about 400 pounds a month.
Then there is a lot of extra things that add up to that. The average wage before tax will be about 1000 pounds. We also have to pay extra healthcare insurance. Dentists and so on are only covered for 75%. And insurance on car's go by catalog value and weight. The bigger the car and heavier and if it's a diesel the more you pay in tax and insurance.
Best place to live is probably germany or belgium and then commute to holland. Cheap housing and tax advantages and Cheap cheap fast cars..!!!
Niall
Sorry i refuse to believe the average wage in Holland is £1000 per month before Tax
If you earn over 1600 Euro's you have some kind of degree or you have learnt a trade. Folk who sweep the streets or work in factory's don't earn that much.
One thing i've got to say about britain in that shopping for food is quite expensive but going out is a lot cheaper than here. Anytime i vist my sister my wallet isn't as empty for the same amount of drink as here.
Niall
Originally posted by slim_boy_fat
lolss, on ours is only £115-£180 depending on the car. Insurance seems to be high here and 40% income tax is abit pants.
Mind you only about 15% or the money collected from roads taxation is spent on the roads..or transport...Hence our problems.
105 for mine cause it is under 1500cc:jog:
slim_boy_fat
11-10-2003, 16:34
Originally posted by vibrio
105 for mine cause it is under 1500cc:jog:
And cause its old
slim_boy_fat
11-10-2003, 21:02
Originally posted by vibrio
GTF 4 years is not old :laff:
slim_boy_fat
12-10-2003, 20:36
Originally posted by vibrio
GTF 4 years is not old
Fall for it every time, use the force Luke.
I'm going to send you the bill for my car cleaning. you covered it in soot goign down that on ramp :p
well, after much deliberation, i have decided to go with Revo. Despite being extra money, there is no way that any other company at the moment can provide me with as much confidence in their product (that i have seen or heard). I spoke to Kev from Revo today and ended up on the phone for about 40 mins! (sorry kev :redface: ). Also, helpfully, i managed to source an SPS1 second hand which helped.
Anyway, i will hopefully be visiting Bigboystoys near lakeside next week....(anyone heard of them?). I have to say, im really looking forward to the prospect of a bit more power....I shall be reporting back ;)........
Originally posted by sssstew
prc.. any luck getting the pick of the N75 for me?:redface:
Here's a pic of the N75 (finally):redface: :redface: :D
(taken from the underside of a 115pd Bora)
Here's a pic of what makes it work:
(white topped thingy up against firewall)
cheers paulo, much appreciated..... :redface: can you just remind me of the function of this N75? cant remember for the life of me. cheers dude ;)
Jono, I had my Ibiza TDI 130 Revo'd 2w ago and beleive me, you won't be disappointed. I now feel like I could destroy pretty much anything else on the road. Its not just the hike in power/torque but the whole delivery seems linear upto the redline which it never did before. I, like some others, have kept the car pretty much totally standard as I love the look on peoples faces in far more exotic motors when you pulverise them. I considered Jabbasort but felt for an extra few quid is was worth being able to turn it off just in case.... The only downer is I might have to fork out for a radar detector as the extra performance is just so damned USABLE
Originally posted by sssstew
cheers paulo, much appreciated..... :redface: can you just remind me of the function of this N75? cant remember for the life of me. cheers dude ;)
It controls the turbo's vanes. As the pressure increase the vanes slant more. At idle the vanes are almost perpendicular to get to to boost as fast as possible. As the rpm's increase (increased exhaust pressure) the N75 causes the vanes to start slanting.
ahh cool... thanks for that, following on from this i have read some more about n75's on the web as i think that might be the cause of my fluctuating boost problem in the 1-2k rpm section... might replace it as they are only cheap.
thanks again for all your help. have a beer on me :cheers:
Originally posted by sssstew
ahh cool... thanks for that, following on from this i have read some more about n75's on the web as i think that might be the cause of my fluctuating boost problem in the 1-2k rpm section... might replace it as they are only cheap.
thanks again for all your help. have a beer on me :cheers:
I know there are some special racing N75's around that will givr you bigger peaks and less fluctuation, but I don't know if they're available for diesels.
Originally posted by marcus
Jono, I had my Ibiza TDI 130 Revo'd 2w ago and beleive me, you won't be disappointed. I now feel like I could destroy pretty much anything else on the road. Its not just the hike in power/torque but the whole delivery seems linear upto the redline which it never did before. I, like some others, have kept the car pretty much totally standard as I love the look on peoples faces in far more exotic motors when you pulverise them. I considered Jabbasort but felt for an extra few quid is was worth being able to turn it off just in case.... The only downer is I might have to fork out for a radar detector as the extra performance is just so damned USABLE
ANOTHER positive review from a happy owner, ....im looking forward to this now!! ;) I think you are right about the radar detector as well....good for detecting accident blackspots of course ;), mind you...the new cameras (cant remember the name) which face towards the driver arent detectable by laser from what i can remember.....:confused:
Originally posted by JONO!!
ANOTHER positive review from a happy owner, ....im looking forward to this now!! ;) I think you are right about the radar detector as well....good for detecting accident blackspots of course ;), mind you...the new cameras (cant remember the name) which face towards the driver arent detectable by laser from what i can remember.....:confused:
Had an interesting duel with a Clio Sport V6 last night (they have 230+ bhp I think and 0-60 in 6.5) We were both caning it and he prob just had the edge but we're talking miniscule. As we pulled up at the 1st set of lights he lagged back to see what I was driving. Ha Ha imagine his suprise to see a diesel ibiza keeping up with him. At least he had the decency to flash his hazards when he turned off to show respect. I know theres another thread for this type of stuff somewhere but thought this might whet your appetite further
Paulo.. do you know what the black thing is to the left in the picture of the N75 top view is, it has all the little pipes going into it like the N75 but no white top to it.
Originally posted by sssstew
Paulo.. do you know what the black thing is to the left in the picture of the N75 top view is, it has all the little pipes going into it like the N75 but no white top to it.
Don't know, but since the car is still in the shop I'll check tonight to tomorrow morning. Or better yet, we've got a 110 in the shop.:think:
Originally posted by sssstew
thankus muchus ;)
Haven't forgotten, but just got back from the US.
he he, as you said in another post, no need to worry now.
Found out it was the N18 EGR control valve.
thanks for the offer and help though paulo. :cheers: