View Full Version : Supersprint De-Kat pipe
Hi All
Received a supersprint de-kat pipe from my 96 16V Ibiza this morning and all I can say is that I am in shock !
Nice quality etc but the outlet pipe is 2" bore only !
Popped up to Awesome this lunchtime and compared it with a Golf Mk3 16V one. At first appearance, the Golf one is larger bore, perhaps 2.25" and about 3" longer than the ibiza part. On closer inspection, the bit that makes the golf pipe 3" longer is 2.25" but that tapers down to the 2" bit found on the ibiza just before it goes into the 'Box'. Infact, the ibiza is a Golf Mk3 16V decat pipe with 3" chopped off the end of it (you can even see the hacksaw marks !)
So - only buy one of these if you want the exhaust blowing through a 2" restriction !
I have just bought a monster 2.5" Milltek pipe and will make my own De-Kat pipe.
Cheers
Rob
rob is where the front connects to the down pipe bolt or weld in?mine had a 3 bolt flange where it met the down pipe,this was for mk2 1.816v and 2ltr 8v,and some polo's iirc,must admit mine was forever coming away from the centre section,modded a bit of steel to get in on properly,AND IT WAS MATED TO A SUPERSPRINT CENTRE SECTION:think: :dunno:
regards tarquin:p
this was mine
http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?threadid=12901
and the bit of bent pipe,loosley called a centre section
Originally posted by jason
rob is where the front connects to the down pipe bolt or weld in?mine had a 3 bolt flange where it met the down pipe,this was for mk2 1.816v and 2ltr 8v,and some polo's iirc,must admit mine was forever coming away from the centre section,modded a bit of steel to get in on properly,AND IT WAS MATED TO A SUPERSPRINT CENTRE SECTION:think: :dunno:
regards tarquin:p
Yo Tarq
Its a 3 bolt triangular flange yes - the pipe is 2.5" where it goes in from the downpipe but only 2" when it comes out of the decat :(
This would be right - the supersprint center section for 1.8 16V and 2.O 8V is 50mm bore (both with same decat) and 2L 16V is 54mm (with weld in decat pipe).
They seem a little narrow to me - the chap I spoke to at Milltek said that supersprint were known for this as they sell the same exhausts in many countries and Germany in particular are very tight on noise - this narrow bore was done to reduce noise he said.
Ave it
Dave
ROFLMAO,loudest exhaust (in CAR)i've ever heard,germans must be deaf,
looked at a millteck for the cordie,alas not made:(
I really hope the supersprint de-cat pipe for the Leon isn't like this, i'm getting one fitting on saturday!!! We'll wait and see. I'll be taking a ruler with me:D
Chris - what are you doing about your lambda probe?
Not quite sure yet Mark, I know thats a dodgy issue with de-cats. Thats why I'm letting Autotechnik do it for me. The pipe looks to have mounting points for the probes. AutoT said they've done them before many times and there's (and I quote) 'No problem'
In fact, Vanessa said she has a de-cat on her 1.8T Golf.
Watch this space, perhaps we should have a poll on whether my engine check light will be on before I get home or not:D
dunno about the leon,but the ibiza has a bolt in it.take the bolt out and screw in yer lambda :cheers:
jase - the leon has one post cat as well to measure the cats effectiveness
M
Originally posted by m0rk
jase - the leon has one post cat as well to measure the cats effectiveness
M
so maybe they'll put 2 in the leon one;)
yes mate - but it'll measure the cats effectiveness as being 'f*cking useless' hence the MIL light
M
ibiza one was pre cat so no worries there,but i'm sure vanessa has it sussed:cheers:
sean martin
03-11-2003, 21:18
Hi lads, just thought i would let you lot know that I have just bought a TSR golf mk2 manifold (4-1) and my local tuning shop are gunna try and modify the manaifold and engine mounts in order to get the pipes to successfully run past the bulk-head. I will let u know if it works or not. If it does then it should be a good way to gain a few horsepower and a bit of mid range torque.
i'm no expert but doesn't the 4-1 take away alot of low down torque?
i was led to beleive that a 4-2-1 would be better for torque?
like i said,i'm no epxpert
le cupra
03-11-2003, 22:16
Chris, how did it go at Autotechnik getting the decat fitted, any probs?
Write up is here:
http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=24912
Still going great, getting used to the noise :D definate improvement in performance however fuel economy is suffering a bit..
le cupra
03-11-2003, 22:52
cheers Chris, good write up.
What do you reckon to doing just the decat without the downpipe as well?
ps how much was the decat pipe?
You couldn't do the de-cat without the downpipe as the OEM section is all one piece. The Supersprint parts come separately to allow you to have the high flow down pipe with their race car or without.
Total for the 2 parts was a shade over 2 hundred quid I think, but most of that is the down pipe. I'll try and dig the receipt out tomorrow..
:cheers:
le cupra
03-11-2003, 23:03
:cheers:
Originally posted by sean martin
Hi lads, just thought i would let you lot know that I have just bought a TSR golf mk2 manifold (4-1) and my local tuning shop are gunna try and modify the manaifold and engine mounts in order to get the pipes to successfully run past the bulk-head. I will let u know if it works or not. If it does then it should be a good way to gain a few horsepower and a bit of mid range torque.
Hi
Any news on this one yet ? does it fit ? Is your ibiza a 2L or a 1.8L ?
Reason I am interested is that I spoke to a chap from RPM motorsport a couple of years ago who had a 16V ibiza rally car with a tubular exhaust manifold on it - he seemed to think it was from a mk2 golf but wasn't 100% sure.
I am interested to hear how you get on as was contemplating this myself only this morning..
Cheers
Rob
rob if the mk2 fits yours then surely a mk3 16v would fit the ibiza /cordoba with the abf,taking into account the taller block,mind you with a hammer and the wild eyes of optimism anything will fit:D
sean martin
06-11-2003, 17:40
Hi again. The golf mk2 manifold has been successfully fitted onto my 2ltr 16 valve ABF engine. It is a 4 into 1 manifold, the 4 pipes join together roughly where the cat would begin. It was joined to my stainless exhaust without too much trouble. Lambda sensor boss was simply re-welded in the correct position on the exhaust.
It took my local firm (who are very experienced) a total of at least 6 hours to do the job, not got the bill yet but it won't be cheap when added to the £275 cost of purchasing the mainifold.
The only reason that the manifold does not fit straight on is beacause the ABF is tall block rather than short block and is 15 mm higher. To get around this the front engine mount was modified so that the engine was tilted back slightly to get the angle for the pipes to go through. Another problem for them was the inlet manifold, it had to be taken off to create some space to work in, this was a bugger cus they had to disconnect all the nitrous pipes that are attached to it.
Overall the mainfold seems to work well with my schrick 260's and gas-flowed head, torque is increased froim 3-5000 rpm and the enghine seems to rev to the limiter more freely from 6-7000 rpm.
i take it theres no manifold available for the abf then?
apart from the LHD ones i've seen
Originally posted by sean martin
Hi again. The golf mk2 manifold has been successfully fitted onto my 2ltr 16 valve ABF engine. It is a 4 into 1 manifold, the 4 pipes join together roughly where the cat would begin. It was joined to my stainless exhaust without too much trouble. Lambda sensor boss was simply re-welded in the correct position on the exhaust.
It took my local firm (who are very experienced) a total of at least 6 hours to do the job, not got the bill yet but it won't be cheap when added to the £275 cost of purchasing the mainifold.
The only reason that the manifold does not fit straight on is beacause the ABF is tall block rather than short block and is 15 mm higher. To get around this the front engine mount was modified so that the engine was tilted back slightly to get the angle for the pipes to go through. Another problem for them was the inlet manifold, it had to be taken off to create some space to work in, this was a bugger cus they had to disconnect all the nitrous pipes that are attached to it.
Overall the mainfold seems to work well with my schrick 260's and gas-flowed head, torque is increased froim 3-5000 rpm and the enghine seems to rev to the limiter more freely from 6-7000 rpm.
Thats very interesting news - thanks - my Ibiza is fitted with a short block 2L 9A engine so should have no problems at all. And certainly no probs with the inlet manifold since it is on throttle bodies. Spoke with Graham at TSR after Donnington and he also said that the 4-into-1 improved midrange on this engine - contrary to std beliefs - its interesting that you say the same. Think I may get myself one now.
Cheers
Rob
Originally posted by jason
i take it theres no manifold available for the abf then?
apart from the LHD ones i've seen
Nope, sorry tarq
Dave
sean martin
09-11-2003, 16:06
Just though I would add, that of all the things that I have done to the engine on my ibiza the addition of this new manifold has been the most noticable on the road. I don't know if my engine had a bad gas flow or not, Geoff everett seemed disapointed with the 175bhp it made on the rollers at stealth. I am looking forward to going back to get some proper figures on what the engine is doing now.
what spec cams are you running sean?any other mods besides the head work?:cheers: just idle curiosity,:cheers:
sean martin
09-11-2003, 20:48
Before going on the rollers my car was running pipercross viper induction kit, schrick 260 cams , gas flowed head, powerflow midsection and supersprint back box exhaust, it made 176 bhp. Since then the car has had a straight through stainless exhaust including a de-cat and now I have added the 4-1 manifold. I am going to get the cback on the rollers soon, I think it must be running around 180 bhp at the moment. Anyway not too worried cus I have got the 50 horsepower nitrous kit that I hit when feeling brave.
Hi
I went to Awesome on Sat morning to have a look at the 4-1 stainless header that they sell for the Mk2 16V golf - its a beauty - so much so I had to have one ! 1 5/8 primaries 32" long - perfect for a 4 cylinder according to Dave Walker (CCC tuning guru)
So...got it home and thought I would just take a look at taking the old one off...ended up taking the old one off and trial fitting the new one....and it fits perfectly, no issues at all with bulkhead clearance.
May car is a 96 Ibiza GTI that was originally fitted with a 1.8 16V - now a 2L 9A 'shortblock'. Also I have a set of vibratechnics engine mounts. No mods needed on my car at all - unlike on an ABF car that needs tipping backwards a touch to clear the bulkhead (14mm taller engine).
So now its coming off again to have a boss welded on for the lambda sensor - 16V Mk2 golfs didn't have them I guess. Also there will have to be some 'giggery pokery' with some tubing spacers (hopefully with the help of my local tubing guy R.H Mr Saul Porter) to make it fit my Milltek 2.5" system - no big deal, lines up ok, just needs spacing out.
If it improves performance even remotely as good as it looks, it will do !
Ave it
Rob
ps....given Dave Walker, and another tuning book I have, say 32" primaries for a 4 cylinder (which are long, the collector is way under the car mid way where the cat would normally finish), I dont really understand how a supersprint 4-2-1 can work at all where they have all met up by perhaps 20" only - Max torque or other technical folk any ideas ?
good for you rob,i think about 3 "tuners"told me that there was no chance a mk2 golf 16v one would fit my ibiza.
shows what they know,doubt one would make much difference on its own with standard head etc:cheers:
tristan
Originally posted by jason
good for you rob,i think about 3 "tuners"told me that there was no chance a mk2 golf 16v one would fit my ibiza.
shows what they know,doubt one would make much difference on its own with standard head etc:cheers:
tristan
Yo Bernie
credit where credit's due and all that (some people are far too ready to take credit for others ideas) but this one's down to Sean - if he hadn't told me his went on easily (ish) I wouldn't have stumped up the cash for it and tried it myself - been thinking about it for quite some time though
Stan
Originally posted by RobT
Yo Bernie
credit where credit's due and all that (some people are far too ready to take credit for others ideas) but this one's down to Sean - if he hadn't told me his went on easily (ish) I wouldn't have stumped up the cash for it and tried it myself - been thinking about it for quite some time though
Stan
as usual,someone has to try it just to see if it can be done,might get one meself and cobble it onto the abf,ally tape and some blue zorst putty:D
alexander
sean martin
10-11-2003, 16:15
Hope your manifold does as much for your engine as it did for mine, I am sure it will cus the more power you have in the first place, the better the results should be. I wonder how many others are gunna get one now that we have proved that they can fit.
sean martin
10-11-2003, 16:20
Is there anything else I can do to my car/engine that will make it run better/faster, such as losing a bit of weight from the engine or somewhere else on the car. I have ran out of ideas, but as usuall I suppose that any more mods are likely to cost an arm + a leg.
Sean
Originally posted by sean martin
Hope your manifold does as much for your engine as it did for mine, I am sure it will cus the more power you have in the first place, the better the results should be. I wonder how many others are gunna get one now that we have proved that they can fit.
Could be a few more I guess - the heatshield on the std downpipes was driving me nuts rattling anyhow and I believe this is a std problem.
Once the downpipes were off, I removed the heatshielding (with my trusty angle grinder) and there are some major restrictions in the stock tube ! its like its been squashed half way down the downpipes.
Where did you fit your lambda ?
Cheers
Rob
sean martin
10-11-2003, 16:31
lambda sensor just went on in a similar position to where it would have been if the cat was still there, I don't think the position of the lambda is that critical as long as the boss is properly welded in totally air tight.
Originally posted by sean martin
Is there anything else I can do to my car/engine that will make it run better/faster, such as losing a bit of weight from the engine or somewhere else on the car. I have ran out of ideas, but as usuall I suppose that any more mods are likely to cost an arm + a leg.
Sean
There's loads you can do - just depends how far you want to go / how much you have to spend / what compromises you are prepared to make.
Sounds to me like you have a pretty good engine already - throttle bodies would make more power (30+ bhp when I did mine) but will cost £1500 at least and I'm not sure I would do this on a daily driver - you would need an aftermarket ECU and would loose things like immobiliser etc etc.
Its possible to loose weight all over the car but do you really want to turn your car into a noisy thing with no carpets / back seats / stereo / trim / etc etc - mine is not a dailey driver so I dont have to put up with all this all the time - and I wouldn't want to if I'm honest.
You could spend loads on better transmission with close ratio gears / limited slip diff and a better clutch - makes the car faster but costs again - probably 1-2K depending on bits.
Uprated suspension - £400-£1000, really good suspension £2-5K. Car setup with a top outfit - £500 or so. ARB set £150-£400. Polybush all the suspension £200-£300 (est.)
Brakes - £500-£1500
Good race tyres - £400-£700 per set.
Depressing ain't it.
Cheers
Rob
ibizacupra
10-11-2003, 18:18
Originally posted by jason
good for you rob,i think about 3 "tuners"told me that there was no chance a mk2 golf 16v one would fit my ibiza.
shows what they know,doubt one would make much difference on its own with standard head etc:cheers:
tristan
*cough*
:)
ibizacupra
10-11-2003, 18:21
Originally posted by RobT
Depressing ain't it.
Rob
:rolleyes:
Just don;t ever add it all up.
I would cry if I did.
come to think of it.... :eek: :redface: :o
Says he looking into the eyes of several 1000 rebuild costs on replacement transmission. :( (not to mention the fecking Golf!)
sean martin
10-11-2003, 19:22
A friend of mine was questioning what engine u actually have in your motor when he saw the stealth figures from the weekend, please let me know the spec so that I can pass it on.
Originally posted by ibizacupra
*cough*
:)
you been holding back info on me billy?:D
ibizacupra
10-11-2003, 20:36
Originally posted by sean martin
A friend of mine was questioning what engine u actually have in your motor when he saw the stealth figures from the weekend, please let me know the spec so that I can pass it on.
motor is 1.8T
IHI Turbo, larger injectors, S3 fuel pump, S3 MAF, S3 ecu, downpipe, cat, Jabba IHI exhaust manifold, Green filter, 2.5" Miltek exhaust, lower CR pistons (Ceramic coated), gas flowed cyl head, running 1.5bar max boost
Power ~350bhp with >300lb/ft
Bill