View Full Version : Performance meter
I have just found a performance meter in the back of Evo magazine,
It seems to be able to measure 0-60, 0-100, quarter mile and a whole bunch of other stuff, out of the box it is accurate to 1/10th second, and once setup (very easy) it is supposed to be accurate to 1/100th second !!,
What does anyone think of it? and does anyone already have one?
http://www.race-technology.com/WebPage/Products/Accelerometer/PerformanceMeterIntro.html
leonvt2001
12-01-2002, 17:20
Funnily enough just about to order the AP-22.
Someone in the CRX group has one and reckons they are excellent - pretty accurate timings compared with Santa Pod. (although his claim of maximum g when cornering of 1.5 in a 405 Turbo Diesel seemed a little dubious...)
I know that IMOC (MR2 Owners club) members are entitled to a 10% discount.
Maybe I should hold off ordering and we should see if we can secure a similar discount for SeatCupra.net members.
Any volunteers to approach them from one of the Mods? Or shall I do it?
Steve
I am thinking of ordering one of these now!!, if we can get a group buy or seatcupra.net discount it would sway me to placing an order now!!,
I would like it before the RR day on the 19th september though !
So is anone else interested in buying one of these?, if so i will email them!,
Mic, do you sell anything that does the same as this unit?
leonvt2001
12-01-2002, 20:39
Originally posted by Mosser
So is anone else interested in buying one of these?, if so i will email them!,
Nice one - i always have been a lazy b***ard!
If you can e-mail them and arrange a group buy, I am definitely in. (I want the AP22 with data logging - seems very worthwhile for the extra 50 odd quid).
Steve
Not trying to put a downer on everything but are you sure these things are accurate. I've read their web page and it all sounds good, bu the use of accelerometers is prone to accumulating errors. Taking high frequency reading of g force on only an 8-bit g-force scale will give slightly inaccurate results which increase in inaccuracy over time.
Not bad for the money though.
Lean2001, the 1.5g readng during cornering can be explained by the cars body roll resulting in the device not sitting level during the corner and so this messes up its g readings, and the net result is an over reading (I can explain using triganomics if you want.).
However, saying all that, if I had the money spare I'd buy one.... and I'd be interested in seeing other people results.
Ben
Hi Ben,
What sort of error do you think we would see based on 0-60 runs?, are we talking 0.1sec or 1.0 sec?,
Also, did you read the bit about it taking into account the body roll in a car and it supposedly self correcting for these errors?,
Could it be more likely that it was recording a peak spike resulting from violent steering input momentarily rather that a constant 1.5g?
Impossible
13-01-2002, 00:55
They do look pretty good, I was going to stock the G-Tech units a few months back but supplys where got to good, Blitz also do a nice one which has a screen about 3x4" that draws a graph has you are driving, neat! BUT there is a lot of wirering to do.. cornecting upto the speedo,rpm,+/- plus a few others, so you could not put the meter in your mate's car to see what power he's got.:( but if you where only going to mount it in your car then it's the best..
Good thing with this one, is it look like there very little wiring if any:) so you can swap and change from car to car.. would like to see how accurate they are compaired with a dyno, Ben made a good point about Sample rate. Down load to the computer is really good way to compair results.
All these types of meters are normaly the only way to measure the differnce in power when changing Intercoolers, with dyno's it's very hard to get the air flow though them, even with a BIG fan it,s only about 15mph air flow.
Will give them a call Monday, looks good
Mic
Mosser, I don't know how inaccurate the reading would be.... its probably relative to time. For example, if you accelerate from 0-60 and then travel at 60 for about a minute (Coz you plan to do a timed 60-100 or something), I'd imagine that the friction of the road would be picked up by the accelerometers which will detect the micro-increases and decreases in speed. Now if some of these micro speed changes are too small to be picked up by the g meter then you could find that the internal speed calculations creap.... ie. after a minute or so of travelling at 60mph it might think that your travelling at 55mph.
I could go into more detail (I used to deal with these sort of issues when developing flight sims.), but I think it would just bore people. ;)
Anyway, as Mic said, I think these would be an excellent way of comparing before and after performance when making changes to the car, especially if they are airflow dependent.
BTW, is there 0.1 second accuracy guarenteed?
I'd be interested to see someone try this on a car wih the Race Logic GPS unit and compare the results.
BTW, I believe that the PC software has the ability to show a trace of you route around a track/road... well this too would be affected by the accumulating errors.... so one way to test how acurate the unit is and how prone it is to accumulating errors would be to track it around a track or road sysem for a few laps and then plot your route with the software.
Theoretically if there are no accumulating errors then each lap should overlap the others, but with accumulating errors you will see each lap slightly offset from the others. The worse the offset the less accurate it is.
Ben
leonvt2001
14-01-2002, 12:24
BenS1
The points you make are all valid ones. I think it's useful as a pocket dragstrip but maybe not for longer run.
What the hell - I've not had a new toy for a while (and I see you can get the utility for calculating Rolling Resistance / Cda of a car for the Palm - wow another use for another gadget I don't use too much - bonus).
Mic - will you be able to do a good price on these, or should I just go direct (it looks like we're struggling to get enough for a group buy here, unless 2 counts as a group).
Steve
Well i still want one, cos if i am gonna play round with the boost settings then i want to be able to see the extra power (if any!) that i am getting !!
pstables
16-01-2002, 18:25
I'm interested in any discount we can get on one of these too. Me & a few mates are going to get one to play with... :D
Paul
FastShow
16-01-2002, 18:39
Someone should mail Lee about this, he's good at negotiating discounts for SEAT Cupra members.
I ordered one yesterday, so it should be here tomorrow (Thursday). I'll bring it to the RR day at Cheltenham in case anyone wants to see it.
It mentions on the website about the accummulation of small errors, saying that the route tracking is only accurate for a short distance. I can't remember exactly what it says, but see the website for more information if you're interested.
I'm hoping to make back a little bit of the cost by hiring it out to my mates. I'm sure that quite a few of them would pay for a go.
BTW, at the trackday last Friday, I used one, and it said that I had 155 bhp at the wheels, but the owner had guessed the weight of my car, and set it too low.
leonvt2001
17-01-2002, 10:55
Anybody else want one?
Thats 3 of us who have not yet ordered - probably want a couple more for a group buy attempt.
Anybody?
I will order mine at lunchtime at the full price if it looks like we aren't going to get enough people.
Steve
I wouldn't mind an AC-22. Count me in for any group buy etc.
Neil,
There you go.... if the website says that the route tracking is only accurate for small distances due to accumulating errors then it shows that the accumulating errors are causing significant inaccuracies. May be ok for a 0-60 run, but probably not very good if you want to drive upto 60, hold your speed for a minute and then floor it upto 100.
Ben
leonvt2001
17-01-2002, 16:14
I've e-mailed Lee about these - he's going to contact race-technologies to see if we can get a discount
Steve
I know it's dragging up an old thread but did anything happen with a group buy because if there is still a few people wanting one i'd easyly go for a group buy.
Regards
Mark
I dont want one anymore, i got vag-com instead!, it can do 0-60 times, bhp and torque plots and loads more!, i decided my money was better spent on this instead!
Mosser,
Out of interest how much was the vag-com?
Cheers
Mark
I imported it direct from vag-com in america and it cost me £152 including all cables, adaptor and software
leonvt2001
03-04-2002, 09:06
The group buy disintegrated.
Lee wasn't able to negotiate a discount for seatcupra.net members. :(
I bought one anyway. :D
I've used it all of about 4 times since I've had it, so that works out at about 50 quid a pop! It seems pretty accurate (reported peak power of 139bhp at the wheels on my CRX), but is a PITA to find an opportunity to use it.
I see they do a new one now that incorporates GPS so is more accurate (and has no display, so is "legal" for track day use). Cost is about 500 quid though.
Steve
Mosser,
Did you order the vag-com from Ross-Tech.com?
If you did where there any problems in ordering from the US and what do you think of it?
Cheers,
Brian
Yup, ordered direct from ross-tech, had no problems ordering it from them, but then i have ordered quite a lot of stuff from the states and never had any problems (apart from 1 thing taking 4 weeks to arrive!!), it arrived a week after i placed my order,
I think it is one of the best accessories i have bought for my car (although i like technical things!!) and can recommend it!
ibizacupra
03-04-2002, 15:50
Originally posted by Mosser
Yup, ordered direct from ross-tech, had no problems ordering it from them, but then i have ordered quite a lot of stuff from the states and never had any problems (apart from 1 thing taking 4 weeks to arrive!!), it arrived a week after i placed my order,
I think it is one of the best accessories i have bought for my car (although i like technical things!!) and can recommend it!
Me too. ordered it, cables arrivde in 3 days!
Impressed with service.
It is'nt a toy though.... venture into the wrong menu and do the wrong thing and you will likely cock something up.
Bill
Mosser,
Take it the kit you got was software and you need a laptop to run it?
Mark
IT is a hardware interface adaptor and some software, and yes you do need a laptop to on it on
Cupramax
05-04-2002, 19:33
Originally posted by ibizacupra
It is'nt a toy though.... venture into the wrong menu and do the wrong thing and you will likely cock something up.
Bill
Wise words I think. I remember reading something on the Audisport forums about someone accidentally firing the drivers airbag via it....:eek:
RoyWolfey
09-04-2002, 23:32
If anyone is still interested in the AC or AP-22, a good source is Owen Geddes @ www.race-speed.com
ibizacupra
11-04-2002, 14:15
Originally posted by maxthehound
Wise words I think. I remember reading something on the Audisport forums about someone accidentally firing the drivers airbag via it....:eek:
There was a glitch in the firmware I believe which when interrogated (ie opening the controller) the airbags would fire. :eek:
Best advise... don't go into that controller at all. :D
regards
Bill
Cupramax
11-04-2002, 14:44
Unless of course you happen to be crashing into a wall at the time.....;) :rolleyes: