Revo stage1 - Timing Question

[Invisible]

Hi Guys,

Went to see a fellow SCN member a couple of weeks back as he wanted to compare another stage1 revo cupra with his as he felt his car was under-performing (already been back to SEAT a few times with it) and to do some logging.

Both are MK2 leon cupras with the 2.0TFSI engine. He currently only has the stage1 map, mine with the stage1 map and ITG intake.

I'm currently running B6,T5,F9 and he was running B7,T5,F9.

His log showed some big negative numbers ('timing pull' I am led to believe it's called) on the cylinders and defo felt a bit sluggish in comparison to mine. I understand that timing pull means the ECU is fighting and as a result maybe not getting the best from the settings.

I understand that standard revo settings for stg1 are B6,T3,F9 is this correct?

He has subsequently adjusted his timing to T4 and feels he notices the car is much better, quicker and torquier (not run a new report yet)

He has just sent me my report and albeit not as bad as his I also have timing pull.

Is timing pull an 'acceptable' trade off or accepted as part of the map?

I had mine setup by Monster Motorsport on a RR and further tested on the road. I am happy with the performance but was curious to know if the Timing was adjusted to say 4 and pull eliminated whether this would 'in theory' increase torque/bhp/performance? Or has the Timing been increased to try and push a highr bhp number on the RR or to max perforamnce at particular rev ranges etc?

Saturday 17 July 2010 16:06:17:24248 VCDS Version: Release 10.6.0 Data version: 20100630
1P0 907 115 C 2.0l R4/4V TFSI 0020

Group A: '020 Group B: '114 Group C: '115
Cylinder 1 Ignition Cylinder 2 Ignition Cylinder 3 Ignition Cylinder 4 Ignition Engine Load Engine Load Engine Load Wastegate (N75) Engine Speed Engine Load Boost Pressure Boost Pressure
TIME Angle Delay Angle Delay Angle Delay Angle Delay TIME (specified) (spec. corrected) (actual Value) Duty Cycle TIME (specified) (actual)
Marker STAMP °KW °KW °KW °KW STAMP % % % % STAMP /min % mbar mbar
0.24 0 0 0 0 0.36 145.1 145.1 88.7 99.6 0.12 1960 85 1780 1180
0.63 0 0 0 -3 0.75 163.2 163.2 97 99.6 0.49 2120 91 1970 1260
1 0 -3 -3 -3.8 1.14 170.7 170.7 105.3 99.6 0.88 2280 98.5 2170 1350
1.39 -6 -3 -3 -3.8 1.51 175.2 175.2 115.8 99.6 1.26 2400 109 2250 1470
1.78 -6 -3 -3 -3.8 1.9 176.7 176.7 130.1 99.6 1.65 2600 120.3 2290 1620
2.17 -6 -3 -3 -3.8 2.29 178.2 178.2 148.1 89.4 2.03 2800 136.8 2310 1810
2.54 -6 -3 -3 -3.8 2.69 181.2 181.2 174.4 57.6 2.42 3040 158.6 2310 2090
2.93 -6 -3 -3 -3.8 3.06 185 185 183.5 61.2 2.81 3280 178.9 2330 2290
3.32 -0.8 -0.8 0 -0.8 3.45 185.7 185.7 188 60 3.2 3560 187.2 2330 2370
3.72 -0.8 -0.8 0 -0.8 3.84 185 185 178.2 60.8 3.57 3840 183.5 2330 2340
4.09 0 -0.8 0 -0.8 4.23 185 185 175.2 63.1 3.97 4080 174.4 2350 2290
4.48 0 -0.8 0 -0.8 4.61 185.7 185.7 180.5 65.9 4.35 4360 175.9 2380 2310
4.87 -6 -2.3 -0.8 -0.8 5 185.7 185.7 184.2 67.5 4.74 4600 181.2 2390 2340
5.26 -5.3 -1.5 0 0 5.39 186.5 186.5 181.2 68.6 5.12 4880 182.7 2390 2380
5.63 -5.3 -1.5 0 0 5.78 187.2 187.2 176.7 69 5.51 5120 178.9 2390 2390
6.02 -4.5 -0.8 0 0 6.15 187.2 187.2 178.2 70.6 5.9 5360 176.7 2380 2350
6.41 -4.5 -0.8 0 0 6.54 188.7 188.7 178.2 72.9 6.29 5640 178.2 2390 2340
6.81 -4.5 0 0 0 6.93 189.5 189.5 177.4 74.1 6.66 5800 178.2 2390 2340
7.18 -4.5 0 0 0 7.32 190.2 190.2 172.9 74.1 7.05 6040 176.7 2300 2310
7.57 -4.5 0 0 0 7.69 190.2 190.2 169.9 76.1 7.44 6240 172.2 2300 2270
7.96 -3.8 -3 0 0 8.09 191 191 166.2 78.4 7.83 6480 167.7 2310 2260
8.35 -3.8 -3 0 0 8.47 191 191 163.2 82 8.21 6640 165.4 2310 2240
8.72 -3 -3 0 0 8.86 191 191 176.7 85.9 8.6 6840 160.9 2310 2210
9.11 -3 -3 0 0 9.24 191 191 166.2 56.9 8.99 7000 174.4 2060 2230
9.5 -3 -3 0 0 9.63 191 191 57.1 0 9.38 7120 133.8 1420 2520
9.89 0 0 0 0 10.02 191 191 17.3 0 9.75 7360 14.3 300 1410


<<Sorry can't get heading to line up with code but hopefully get the idea>>

Monster have my car next week for a 20K service and I will ask them to have a look at this anyway and maybe do some more tests/logs etc but as the experts was interested in your views/opinions.

Hope that all makes sense!!

Cheers

[Revo Kev]

http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=89479 This should answer all your questions!

Let the guys at Monster check it but I'd say either you're asking ever so slightly too much, the fuel isn't great, or the car was hot when you did that log!

[Invisible]

Cheers Kev, I'll have a look.

Car was idling for a long time before we did the test. I always run the car on shell vpower (so hopefully my local garage not pulling a fast one on me!)

I will leave it to the experts next week anyway. I'm just trying to increase my knowledge a little more of how all these things work :)

[andycupra]

Sometimes less is more. timing pull is detrimental and not something you want.

[Invisible]

Just a thought, could it also be that at Timing 5 that's right at the limited of the standard fuel pump?

In the event that an uprated HPFP is used is that utilised by a higher timing setting normally or just gives you the capacity to handle extra boost?

[andycupra]

i wouldnt imagine that timing is the issue with potential fuel pump issues. more boost high up the rev range. But i would also expect that as Revo stage 1 is designed for an otherwise unmodded car then the Revo map will have been developed to avoid any issues such as this.
Im sure Revo will give a specific answer.

[Invisible]

Cheers, just thought i'd eliminate it :)

Maybe 4 will be the prefered option.

Will do another run t some point (or get Monster to do it) when engine isn't hot.

I'll complain to my local shell garage that they charging me for quality vpower and its not good enough!

I guess I was more concerned that could cause damage if the ECU is constantly being overworked or 'pulled'