GPL on TDI?!?!

[basstard]

Hi guys,
I've read on an italian tuning magazine of an Alfa 156 JTD MultiJet 1.9 (140hp stock) which was tuned, among other things, with a GPL system!! (GPL in italian stands for something like Propane Liquid Gas, anyway, it is the old gas system that was mounted on petrols to economise, but gave a terrifying drop in performance and durability of the engine).
I read this while in a hurry, but i guess that the difference with pertrols is that the GPL is used in addiction to diesel (not as on petrols where it is used in place of gasoline), putting out 30+ hp (on the 140 Mjet)!!!
I mean, a sort of homemade NOS for tdi's!!! Plus would be very cheaper!
I'm just wondering how the electronics of the TDI would behave with the GPL added to the normal fuel,,, maybe there's the need of a separated chip for the GPL,,, dunno,,,

Anyone of u guys have an idea of how this stuff works?

[orangesprout]

i've heard about a similar thing done to 130 golf - which now produces 200+bhp.

I would like to know also how easy it is to add on this stuff to a diesel.

It would make running costs lower too - Gas is half cost of Derv.

On petrol cost is approx 700 - 1200 quid depending on type of system used.

But if you can get another 40bhp on top of chipping - well woth it i think.

[basstard]

Well, here in italy the installation of one of those systems is very cheaper than what you say, 'bout 600 euros, maybe less with the state contribution we got.
Anyway would be funny going to the tech who installs this stuff and ask him to do the job on a TDI!!!

Yes, gas is cheaper than derv plus I've read that the fuel comsumption drops too!

But most of all I'd like this solution because of the possibility to switch it on and off!!

[Stu B]

Spoke to a chap in the Government (yeah I move in some interesting places....) No Grants available for Derv cars. Petrol could get anything from 40-75% of cost picked up by the fund. :eek:

URL is http://www.powershift.org.uk

Look for Quicklink to Power Reg..... Enjoy..

[driveforward]

Originally posted by Stu B
Spoke to a chap in the Government (yeah I move in some interesting places....) No Grants available for Derv cars. Petrol could get anything from 40-75% of cost picked up by the fund. :eek:

URL is http://www.powershift.org.uk

Look for Quicklink to Power Reg..... Enjoy..
B*st*rd Blair.

[basstard]

Look (http://forums.tdiclub.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=852174&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=7&fpart=1#Post852996) what I found @ tdiclub.
Check the two links: Bullydog and powershot2k. They say 25-60% of gains and up to 80hp gains each.

Plus these systems seem to driven by boost pressure so they should kick in once the turbo is on boost (+2k) and thus not stressing too much the transmission.
They're to be installed on the intake manifold in between the air filter and the turbo.

What do ya think?

[mojogoes]

Where to start with this one , i could start by pointing out the dangers of having a bomb in the car and i would not have it having a young one in the car and my second point would be in order to use it in a diesel like you said basstard you use it as well as not instead of which at that point you will have two fuel bills no matter how little you used it which really defeats the objected and yes you will get around 40hp.

On the ecu side of things yes you would need another re-map because like bigger injectors the ecu does not now about the extra fuel that is being put into the engine and would need doing to make it all work right.


Imo i would go with bigger injectors/nozzles cheaper better and safer .

[BeezerDiesel]

Diesel Car magazine here in the UK did a review on a mk3 Golf TDI 90 some years ago which had a LPG (as we call it) conversion in addition to the regular Diesel fuelling and that was putting out something like 130bhp IIRC.
I'll try and dig it out if I've still got it and report back....

[mojogoes]

I got 146hp with a chip and some b.216 injectors on my mk3 tdi gt15 standard turbo, which in them days was'nt bad cos the 130pd's were just out and just a handfull of 150's

[basstard]

Uh-ooooooooooohohohhoo,,, "a bomb in the car"

Take it easy mojo. Italians are not so rich so in italy it is much time that people use lpg on their cars. There's plenty of and NO ONE of the hundreds of thousands of lpg converted cars we got has ever exploded or what. My guitarist had one (1.4 8v 60hp escort,,, maybe 50hp when on lpg,,, what a snail!), my drummer too (318is beemer), a friend of mine too (1.8 16v '96 clio). Damn I'm surrounded of lpg people, I never thought about that. No one had problems at all, apart the fact that it kills the engine with time (no lubrication like petrol does a bit), but no safety issue I assure you.

The issue of two fuel bills I disagree:
1-I personally would use it only when in need of some extra pull
2-Here in italy lpg costs nothing plus it would highen the diesel mpg
Some things I'd still accept for a rich +40hp.

Don't watch at my questions in the beginning of this thread cos at the time I didn't know how lpg conversions worked even on petrols. IMHO there shouldn't be the need of a remap since I think you could use lpg even without raising the amount of fuel injected. The hp gain should come from better burning of diesel fuel due to the lpg to act as a combustion catalyser. Ow,,, the joys of chemistry.
I understand that raising the IQ would be a better job but it should work a bit even without doing it.

As said before this would be a sort of low cost N2O.

IMO, the pros:
-it is an on-off mod.
-quite cheap for the power gain
-friends of mine willing to sell the car could give me their lpg systems for free (personal pro)

the cons:
-probably increased engine wear
-police wouldn't like it this much I guess
-the gearbox too wouldn't like it

Maybe a separate ecu for the lpg would do (my mate with the clio has one).
It should kick in at say 2.5k rpm thus leaving the gearbox not so stressed. Problem is that @ 2.5k rpm it would begin to rev up like mad and end at the limiter in very very short time,,, dunno if this a con tho,,,

EDIT:
m0rk, if you wanna move this thread in the proper section,,, it was started when the tdi tuning section wasn't even born,,,

[mojogoes]

I supose when you've seen thing at first hand it makes you very awhere of what can/has happened.

[prc]

I agree with mojogoes. Nice but sort of a timebomb just waiting to go off. Besides that, at least here it means no underground parking.. :blink:

We've got alot of GPL here as well, I've actually seen a Lancia Integral with GPL... :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[mojogoes]

The trouble with this paul is most of the guys that have lpg that i know make there own tanks to cut down on weight for racing, some are about a gallon and some a half and if when making one of these tanks you get it wrong..................well we've all got good imaginations.

Basstard like i said even if you use it very sparingly its a second fuel bill and you got to consider the extra weight, also on the ecu side if like me you have a 90hp wastegate turbo and no other fuel mods and connect l p g you can then use a boost valve to give you more boost to coinside with your extra fuel if on the other hand its a vnt turbo your chip tuner would have to raise the boost pressure.........and if you've already got a fuel mod this is still a fuel mod and then your into stacking fuel mods and reaching an overfueled state which at that point your going to need more air (bigger turbo and ic) and so on.


P.s basstard your take on english is very good but from your last post i thought i'd mist out on christmas H :roflmao: H :roflmao: H :roflmao: . :thumbup:

[basstard]

No, wait a minute, you raise the safety issue and then you talk about homemade tanks?! I guess it's obvious they've exploded!!

Maybe a little camping lpg gas tank would do for the job. Small, cheap and safe. Problem is to find propane because camp tanks are butane normally, but propane ones should be sold too.

I disagree about extra-fueling: the lpg would enter the combustion chamber via the air inlet valves. You would burn all the injected diesel which is normally not burnt completely (all that soot you see) and thus you wouldn't be smoking this much + gaining all the hp you loose by not burning all the diesel. IMHO you would gain many hp even without raising IQ.

What concerns me is the lpg to be compressed by the turbo,,, pressure=heat and dunno how lpg would react to this.

Paulo, hope you shot the lpg delta guy!!


basstard your take on english is very good but from your last post i thought i'd mist out on christmas

:roflmao: :roflmao:
Patience guys, patience.

[big ALI H]

Surely this mod would also be insurance safe too - as far as they are concerned, LPG is to help reduce running costs and not to boost BHP. So in their eyes, its not a performance enhancing mod

[mojogoes]

Big ali h..................Give um a ring and see what they say , more money comes to mind. Basstard your not going to do this mod really are ya,when i'm in the sweet shop i;ve just got to buy the shop not just look at all the pritty colours abit like you and women basstard yah ;)

[basstard]

Surely this mod would also be insurance safe too - as far as they are concerned, LPG is to help reduce running costs and not to boost BHP. So in their eyes, its not a performance enhancing mod

Try to say them you're doing that to a TDI and see what they say. :happy:

Basstard your not going to do this mod really are ya,when i'm in the sweet shop i;ve just got to buy the shop not just look at all the pritty colours abit like you and women basstard yah

I wouldn't do that now that I don't have the money to eventually rebuild my engine but when the car is old (or I find a good job - which I doubt here in italy), if in the meanwhile I get to get my hands on a used gpl system from one of my petrol friends, maybe I could have a bit of fun,,, :whistle:

In the meanwhile let me collect the more info possible on this matter.
:cheers: