View Full Version : Quaife, Clutch and Flywheel for Ibiza 20VT
In preparation for my IHI conversion it was obvious that I'd need an uprated clutch, but I also wanted a Quaife ATB differential to give me a bit more traction to handle all that power. After a quick chat with Autotechniks in Totton Nr Southampton they said that they could do me a deal... if I bought the Quaife and Clutch upgrade at the same time then they'd fit the clutch for free (As they have to do most of the work to fit the Quaife anyway.).
I looked at a wide range of clutches, but as I wanted to retain stock drivability it really boilded down to a choice of two. The first was a clever little CentreForce clutch which uses centrifugal weights to increase the clamping force as revs rise. This clutch was originally designed for drag racing and so can definately handle the power, and yet it still maintains stock drivablity. The second choice was the Helix VR6 clutch setup.
In the end I decided to go with the Helix clutch as it had been proven in Bills Ibiza (Thanks Bill). Also this clutch requires a different flywheel, which was lightened too.
Anyway, after a week I picked up the car.
Initially things didn't feel very different, but then thats expected. The clutch pedal is a little heavier, but then it did used to be very light... even now its no heavier than my girlfriends clutch in her little Clio. Still, I wasn't used to the pedal and actually managed to stall it at a roundabout... whoops! :redface: I soon got the hang of it though.
One observation I have made is that the gearbox is much more stubborn to change gear now when the car is cold, but once everything warms up then it changes gear much more quickly than before. I guess this is as a result of them replacing the semi-synth gearbox oil with fully synth, and the time it takes the gearbox oil to warm up?
Initially I took it easy when 'testing' the Quaife. I drove around a few twisties in my area at about the max speed I used to be able to take them and to be honest I didn't really notice much difference. However this turns out to be one of the good things about the Quaife... when you drive it within the normal limits then it reacts and feels just like a normal open diff, and its only when you go beyond the normal limit that it starts to feel different.
As my confidence has grown I realised that with the Quaife I have now been driving too far within the limits and so I've had to push harder. Once I learn this my first impressions were good as there was noticably more grip around the corners. When the Quaife does its stuff you certainly kno about it as it pulls the steering wheel around. In the case of a corner it pulls the wheel into the corner which feels a little strange at first.
As my confidence has grown still further I have been pushing it more and more and to my surprise the Quaife has given me even more grip!!! Its now giving me so much more grip than I was expecting. There is one roundabout i take on the way home and it now feels as though I can go around it faster with the Quaife in the damp than I could in the dry without it!
The wet grip is amazing, both in the corners and to my surprise in a straight line too. I wasn't really expecting much gain in a straight line but I'm now finding that i can floor it in 2nd in the damp and it will maintain traction all the way through the revs, unlike before!
I've not had a great deal of chance to play in the dry yet as its been raining so much recently, but there was a dry evening a couple of days ago and the grip was amazing!
So, all in all its a big thumbs up for the Quaife. The clutch will not be fully tested until I get the IHI, but it appears to be holding up on Bills car pretty well.
There is one little negative effect I noticed with the Quaife though. I now find that if I do floor it enough to break traction in a straight line (ie. in 1st gear) then I get a bit hopping rather than plain wheelspinning. This isn't a big problem, but its just something that the car didn't do before.
Cheers
Ben
LEO LION R
12-02-2004, 12:03
That's makes an excellent read, do you know if it is the O2J transmition on your car as well as the Leon ? what i'm getting at is, would it fit the LCR ?
Quaife's site doesnt mention the Leon in any capacity but it does the Ibiza / Golf / Octavia / A3 & A4 so i am thinking its the same one for a Leon.
Still in the early stages but i think its the next thing for me to get done, its that or the FMIC.
:cheers:
Have you noticed any suicide tourqe steer ala Ford Focus RS over the rough stuff?
How much did all this cost you then?
Thought you were selling up Leo :p did i miss you changing your mind again. :D
Im looking at having the Quaife fitted to mine at the moment already had some qoutes, just waiting until the bonus comes in April probably.
Diff is around £525 + VAT
Plus a fitting kit is required which is about £100
Then at least a full day of labour to fit it, thats what ive' ben qouted.
Averagely anything from around £1000 - £1200 or so for the job, thats just the diff mind you not a clutch too like Ben has had added.
But the clutch on the Leon is a bit more considrable than the Ibiza, but i may also consider a new performance clutch, may as well kill 2 birds with one stone.
But certainly i want the diff to be done, i think it really needs it now, otherwise all this power is just wasted.
Shock_Xe
12-02-2004, 18:00
so ben, what was the final cost?
LEO LION R
12-02-2004, 19:09
Originally posted by ZBOYD
Thought you were selling up Leo :p did i miss you changing your mind again. :D
Im looking at having the Quaife fitted to mine at the moment already had some qoutes, just waiting until the bonus comes in April probably.
Diff is around £525 + VAT
Plus a fitting kit is required which is about £100
Then at least a full day of labour to fit it, thats what ive' ben qouted.
Averagely anything from around £1000 - £1200 or so for the job, thats just the diff mind you not a clutch too like Ben has had added.
But the clutch on the Leon is a bit more considrable than the Ibiza, but i may also consider a new performance clutch, may as well kill 2 birds with one stone.
But certainly i want the diff to be done, i think it really needs it now, otherwise all this power is just wasted.
lol
you need to keep up, your getting as bad as mik ;) :D
Keeping it - yes, didnt fancy leaving it on my driveway everymorning, and wondering if it would still be there when i got back :(
So is it the Quaife ATB diff you looked at and got quotes for Z, or is there another one on the market ?
Do you have any details you could PM me with ?
Diff is a defo must have in the wet/damp with this much FWD power/torque, also toying with the idea of the sequential shift but thats maybe a couple of years away after IHI.
:cheers:
slim_boy_fat
12-02-2004, 19:35
Originally posted by LEO LION R
So is it the Quaife ATB diff you looked at and got quotes for Z, or is there another one on the market ?
Do you have any details you could PM me with ?
Diff is a defo must have in the wet/damp with this much FWD power/torque, also toying with the idea of the sequential shift but thats maybe a couple of years away after IHI.
:cheers:
Why do i bother?
Originally posted by LEO LION R
So is it the Quaife ATB diff you looked at and got quotes for Z, or is there another one on the market ?
Do you have any details you could PM me with ?
Diff is a defo must have in the wet/damp with this much FWD power/torque, also toying with the idea of the sequential shift but thats maybe a couple of years away after IHI.
Im too busy running the place to read all your trials and tribulations. :D
Its the Quaife ATB Diff i've been making enquiries about.
Figures as i've qouted above really, Stealth Racing are Quaife dealers, not sure if Jim at Star can do this or source/fit it for you? Im sure he probably can.
Details are here http://www.quaife.co.uk/
http://www.quaife.co.uk/catalogue/page32.htm
Audi (Front) TT Quattro, A3/S3 Quattro (02M transmission)
2WD QDF13R1
I believe this is the correct kit for the 6 speed box.
Most places will want at least a full day for fitting as its a gearbox off jobby.
For the Quaife, parts and fitting it came to about £1200 with Autotechniks (TSR quoted the same). The thing I like about Autotechniks is that they REALLY know what they are doing and know all the strengths and weaknesses of the gearbox. With them the price includes a full gearbox strip down and rebuild, including all new barings and the problematic diff rivets replaced with ARP fasteners.
Alan at Autotechniks said that he had seen many Quaife installs that has simply been just that, a plain install without changing the barings, or removing the diff rivets... this is apparently not a good idea.
As mentioned above, I think the Leon has the 02M gearbox.
Have you noticed any suicide tourqe steer ala Ford Focus RS over the rough stuff?
Under normal driving it feels just like a normal diff (When you first get in the car after having it fitted it does feel a little heavier on the steering, but you soon get used to that to the point that it now feels normal to me). It only starts to do its stuff when you are pushing it hard enough to start to break traction with one of the wheels (eg. fast cornering).
At the point the Quaife starts doing its thing it actually pulls the steering INTO the corner (ie. if you let go of the wheel it would goto full lock rather than returning to centre like a normal diff would). This feels strange at first, but you certainly know you have the extra grip.
It seems quite predictable to me, and hasn't been a problem. I imagine that if you floored it hard over a particularly bad surface then as the side with most grip swaps around the wheel will get pulled around a bit, but so far I've not come across such a road.
Cheers
Ben
Shock_Xe
12-02-2004, 22:43
so it was £1200 without the clutch??? ouch :eek:
Its the labour time that bumps it up, the diff is around half that the rest is 8hours or so of labour in removing and then rebuilding the gearbox.
Yep, as ZBOYD said. Its a LOT of labour. It took a week for mine to be fitted... but as mentioned above they do a full gearbox rebuild and replace the barings and diff rivets.
I phoned a few different places about 2 years ago, and they all quoted £1200.
Cheers
Ben
Cheers Ben good reading - lots of food for thought for me..
LEO - now not selling? Thinking of quaife and an IHI instead? Cor and i remember back in the mists of time i remember you chiding me for spending too much on mods (remember the whole discussion on how much it'd cost me to get up to LCR specs?).
I wanna move to scotland - you guys have too much cash on your hands lol :)
ibizacupra
16-02-2004, 22:38
Originally posted by BenS1
There is one little negative effect I noticed with the Quaife though. I now find that if I do floor it enough to break traction in a straight line (ie. in 1st gear) then I get a bit hopping rather than plain wheelspinning. This isn't a big problem, but its just something that the car didn't do before.
Cheers
Ben
Change the wishbone bushes Ben...
I run poly bushes... no hop... never had any.
Running the std 02A g'box since Nov.. and I dearly miss my ATB diff. :( Never had to much wheelspin before.. It just got on with the job of traction.
Can't wait for new g'box :)
Diff and gears again... (6 of em this time) - Clonk clonk clonk
ibizacupra
16-02-2004, 22:39
Originally posted by LEO LION R
That's makes an excellent read, do you know if it is the O2J transmition on your car as well as the Leon ? what i'm getting at is, would it fit the LCR ?
Quaife's site doesnt mention the Leon in any capacity but it does the Ibiza / Golf / Octavia / A3 & A4 so i am thinking its the same one for a Leon.
Still in the early stages but i think its the next thing for me to get done, its that or the FMIC.
:cheers:
Leon is'nt 02J... (thats a 5spd)
Quaife do an ATB diff for the 6spd tho..
Got one in Golfy
ibizacupra
16-02-2004, 22:40
Originally posted by LEO LION R
also toying with the idea of the sequential shift but thats maybe a couple of years away after IHI.
:laff:
:lol2:
Originally posted by ibizacupra
Change the wishbone bushes Ben...
I run poly bushes... no hop... never had any.
Running the std 02A g'box since Nov.. and I dearly miss my ATB diff. :( Never had to much wheelspin before.. It just got on with the job of traction.
Can't wait for new g'box :)
Diff and gears again... (6 of em this time) - Clonk clonk clonk
Cheers Bill, I'll have a look into the bushes.
Currently my front shocks are totally stuffed so thats probably not helping either (Stuck on max hard no matter what I do with the adjuster! Tiny bumps in the road are so harsh that its gonna damage my wheels before long! :(). AutoTechniks are sorting replacements for me (Hopefully).
Cheers
Ben
ibizacupra
17-02-2004, 12:39
Originally posted by BenS1
Cheers Bill, I'll have a look into the bushes.
Currently my front shocks are totally stuffed so thats probably not helping either (Stuck on max hard no matter what I do with the adjuster! Tiny bumps in the road are so harsh that its gonna damage my wheels before long! :(). AutoTechniks are sorting replacements for me (Hopefully).
Cheers
Ben
They managed to pursuade Bilstein last time on warranty replacements for mine... Sounds like yours are the same failure..
Seized up and corroded to hell.
Not what you expect as a quality product from a reputable company like Bilstein. :rolleyes:
Originally posted by ibizacupra
They managed to pursuade Bilstein last time on warranty replacements for mine... Sounds like yours are the same failure..
Seized up and corroded to hell.
Not what you expect as a quality product from a reputable company like Bilstein. :rolleyes:
Funnily enough Autotechniks just phoned me. Bilstein have agreed to replace them, but get this... they are currently redesigning them and if I want the new design then I'll have to wait 8 weeks. 8 weeks isn't too bad, but the interesting point is that if they are redesigning them then they must be a known problem that the new design will (Hopefully) fix.
Fingers crossed.
Ben
ibizacupra
17-02-2004, 18:44
Originally posted by BenS1
Funnily enough Autotechniks just phoned me. Bilstein have agreed to replace them, but get this... they are currently redesigning them and if I want the new design then I'll have to wait 8 weeks. 8 weeks isn't too bad, but the interesting point is that if they are redesigning them then they must be a known problem that the new design will (Hopefully) fix.
Fingers crossed.
Ben
Sounds promising... and maybe they're coming out of denial finally.
Sadly for me... this has tarred my opinion on their coil overs.. Never again.
KW next time.
Bilstein were told over 18months ago of a problem, but they denied anyone else was having problems... total BS at the time, but they chose to ignore it for way too long.
You going to wait for the improved ones... Be daft not to.
Interested to see/hear what they have actually redesigned.
Ben do you have the contact number or URL for Autotechniks??
Thankyou :cheers:
Ben do you have the contact number or URL for Autotechniks??
Thankyou :cheers:
Their contact number is 02380 ******
They do have a website but I can never quite remember it properly. Its something like www.your-vw.co.uk, or www.your-vwaudi.co.uk.
Cheers
Ben
You going to wait for the improved ones... Be daft not to.
Interested to see/hear what they have actually redesigned.
I'm still waiting on those shocks. Well over a month late now, and I'm missing my trackdays. :(
Ben
Ouch £1500 .............. Need's to be done though going to see if they can lend me a box while mine's being done because i can't be without the car for a week :(