View Full Version : 1.4 TSI & 7-Speed DSG Users - Development has begun
How many of you in here have a 1.4 TSI motor?
Damoegan
14-12-2010, 19:35
There's not that many on here just yet, Sam.
I will get all the guys from the MK5 section to post here.
Hmm, are you planning something special with the 1.4? ;) I've often looked on with envy at the things you put together for the turbo engines, it's going to be interesting to see what you do! :)
Stevoz03
14-12-2010, 20:04
I have the 1.4 TSI along with the DSG... theres quite a number of us with them on this forum now :)
ive got this car, interested in any upgrades.
HAIRWEGO
14-12-2010, 20:13
me me me !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Cupra Curn
14-12-2010, 20:20
Another here! :)
There's not that many on here just yet, Sam.
Damien I know.
I have just imported a complete 1.4 TSI motor with 7 Speed DSG for development.
I am going to see if we can get a hybrid turbo built similar to what we did for the TT-RS.
My biggest fear is that 1.4 TSI owners (at least to me) are not geared towards performance but more towards fuel economy with a little punch.
If I am wrong please explain why I am wrong. What made most of you decide on the 1.4 vs the more tunable 2.0?
Stevoz03
14-12-2010, 20:46
There is not a 2.0 litre engine available for the mark 5 Ibiza - exept a diesel 2.0 - thats why we all have the 1.4 TSI engine because it is the most powerful engine available :) and I am certainly geared towards performance and not economy - and im sure i ain't the only one right guys? :)
vtxracer
14-12-2010, 20:51
another 1.4 tsi dsg here !
Cupra Curn
14-12-2010, 20:51
There is not a 2.0 litre engine available for the mark 5 Ibiza - exept a diesel 2.0 - thats why we all have the 1.4 TSI engine because it is the most powerful engine available :) and I am certainly geared towards performance and not economy - and im sure i ain't the only one right guys? :)
Spot on mate, If id have been looking for economy id have bought the FR TDI. Definately more geared for performance here.
iīm also very interested in upgrades for this engine, specially the clutch upgrade!
so, i own also a 1.4 TSI with that dry DSG Box
I second that. Also with insurance laws in this country the small engine is classed as a lower insurance group hehehehehehhe. Trust me most of us here are geared towards power and at least with these twin charged engined and the dsg box you can still get nice consumption when driving decently. There aren't too many places to really open up a car here any way but that is what the big meets are for. Let's not forget our members in other EU countries too, they would be all over this flys on you know what hehehehehhee
Damoegan
14-12-2010, 20:54
Damien I know.
I have just imported a complete 1.4 TSI motor with 7 Speed DSG for development.
I am going to see if we can get a hybrid turbo built similar to what we did for the TT-RS.
My biggest fear is that 1.4 TSI owners (at least to me) are not geared towards performance but more towards fuel economy with a little punch.
If I am wrong please explain why I am wrong. What made most of you decide on the 1.4 vs the more tunable 2.0?
As said Sam, no 2.0 in the mk5 platform..
From what I'm lead to believe the 1.4TSI is capable of 270bhp....
Add one more. Look on the ibiza mk5 section and Come back and say we are more interested I'n economy I dare you lol :D
Add one more. Look on the ibiza mk5 section and Come back and say we are more interested I'n economy I dare you lol :D
:lol:
I just did.
Ok boys.
Drop in Billet Compressor wheel turbocharger
Clutch Upgrade for 7 Speed DSG users
I will talk with Revo UK about mapping the cars once all of this is done.
I am so glad I contacted you guys about this. I am actually crying right now I am so happy hehehehehehehehehehehhehee
I am so glad I contacted you guys about this. I am actually crying right now I am so happy hehehehehehehehehehehhehee
id imagine a CNC'ed head would do you guys wonders considering your motor would never need internals.
Let's not forget our members in other EU countries too, they would be all over this flys on you know what hehehehehhee
:funk: right!
in germany for example.
you have to work on a upgraded clutch for the DQ200, very important for me (us) ;-)
Haha thought you might change your mind INA
And well done jc you done us all a big favour setting this up :D
id imagine a CNC'ed head would do you guys wonders considering your motor would never need internals.
Yeah, I reckon it would be a good idea to rip the head off this engine and flow and port it. Spiral cut the valves too so them inlet and oulet gasses leave alot quicker...........
would be nice, but i think at first the clutch upgrade is more important ;-)
iīam also very happy that you talked to INA Jason. Iīm very curious about it :-)
Sooo exciting. Where is my piggy bank .....:p
Are internals pretty strong on the 1.4TSi's then? Is the clutch upgrade a big job or is it not too bad?
Really impressed with your fast response time and dedication to developing the new product. Thanks so much.
With regards to economy, since getting stage 1 my fuels has improved.
i think itīs not difficult to change the clutch at the DQ200 Box. almost the same like a manual gearbox clutch. maybe you need some special tools, maybe! i donīt think so.
Mark I will e-mail you that manual on the engine. they have been assembled with strengthened components so I am pretty sure they can handle it just fine.
dave cup
14-12-2010, 22:05
I'll tentatively register my interest here...would be interested to see how this modification works in with other mods like Revo.
Yeah, I reckon it would be a good idea to rip the head off this engine and flow and port it. Spiral cut the valves too so them inlet and oulet gasses leave alot quicker...........
Thats the first thing I am going to do. If VWVortex had a 1.4 TSI engine forum I would post in there but they do not have one right now so I am going to use this place for all my 1.4 TSI information.
Are internals pretty strong on the 1.4TSi's then? Is the clutch upgrade a big job or is it not too bad?
I dont know but thats the first thing I am going to test in the engine. Ill check the buckling load of the roads and see how they compare to 1.8T 20V cracked components.
i think itīs not difficult to change the clutch at the DQ200 Box. almost the same like a manual gearbox clutch. maybe you need some special tools, maybe! i donīt think so.
From what I have seen so far it is no different than changing the clutch on an 02J/02M box etc.
I just took this information from your thread:
Okay.
DQ200, 7 Speed DSG, Dry Clutch, maximum Torque: 250nm (Golf MK6, Polo, Ibiza, Audi A3... with 1.2 / 1.4 TSI and 1.6 TDI)
DQ250, 6 Speed DSG, Wet Clutch, maximum Torque: 300-350nm ( Golf MK6 GTI, 2.0 TDI, and so on ... )
DQ500, 7 Speed DSG, Wet Clutch ( The big ones, like T5 as sample)
i know these Boxes very good, and i really i hope theyre bring a upgraded clutch for these DQ200.
I am just happy to be back into developing parts again. This is what I joined SCN for and this is why I fell in love with the forum.
One thing to bare in mind though is that I can develop parts from now until next milenium. Seeing as we cant import a 1.4 TSI vehicle here then all product testing / whatever must be done in the UK. If you guys are ok with then then I can develop whatever you want....just understand the logistics behind it.
If I had the money I would ship my car there for you mate hahahahahhahaha
No Problem,
good things need time. and i know that logistics needs also time.
If you need specifications from that DQ200 Box, maybe i can help you.
i work at the Volkswagen AG in Wolfsburg at the Research & Development Department.
If I had the money I would ship my car there for you mate hahahahahhahaha
thats ok lol
if any of you have msn messenger add me.
id love to set up a conference chat outside of SCN.
No Problem,
good things need time. and i know that logistics needs also time.
If you need specifications from that DQ200 Box, maybe i can help you.
i work at the Volkswagen AG in Wolfsburg at the Research & Development Department.
that would be nice. Send me over an email if you can!
Does Volkswagen know you are making your car faster? They might not like this....:lol:
I see you're on skype. So am I..........................
I see you're on skype. So am I..........................
For some reason on SCN it allows shows me offline but skype is on for me 24/7
that would be nice. Send me over an email if you can!
Does Volkswagen know you are making your car faster? They might not like this....:lol:
hehe, a lot of people here do that with the cars.
volkswagen are interested in those things, look at woerthersee, the apprentices of volkswagen build every year a custom car for that festival, with good remaps and so on.
do you have only msn or also icq?
bizscotty
14-12-2010, 22:36
I can't wait for this! well done guys :)
hehe, a lot of people here do that with the cars.
volkswagen are interested in those things, look at woerthersee, the apprentices of volkswagen build every year a custom car for that festival, with good remaps and so on.
do you have only msn or also icq?
i have not used icq since 1998....:lol:
i added you to msn
Elliot29
15-12-2010, 00:34
Another 1.4 TSI 7spd DSG owner here :) Cant wait for more info on this :D
23nickolas
15-12-2010, 01:17
another 1.4 tsi dsg here !
nachoflores
15-12-2010, 06:25
Im with a BOC also but in Mexico
Wow loads of users coming out the wood work now :D
I know these engines and gearbox combo are only going to get more popular due to the Polo Gti, Fabia VRS and Audi A1 TSI.
Like the Sachs clutch has done well on the PD Diesel engines I can imagine this going well on our cars!
Like the Sachs clutch has done well on the PD Diesel engines I can imagine this going well on our cars!
Sachs performance clutch kit?
Rainstorm4
15-12-2010, 11:54
note me down as well, 1.4tsi on dsg7!
Sachs performance clutch kit?
Yeah they were pretty much an essential mod on the manual Diesel engines if you were going for anything over 200BHP. Sold v well.
another owner here, good work boys..:)
Yeah they were pretty much an essential mod on the manual Diesel engines if you were going for anything over 200BHP. Sold v well.
Finding a clutch kit for the TDI motors is easy I recon as they dont come with DSG boxes over here . In the UK do they?
Sorry no, i've confused you slightly. I just ment on the last generation of Ibiza's the clutch kits sold well. Since the new ones only have DSG it should also sell well going forward.
Sorry no, i've confused you slightly. I just ment on the last generation of Ibiza's the clutch kits sold well. Since the new ones only have DSG it should also sell well going forward.
I am sure they will considering no one has attempted this as yet
yea_good_1
16-12-2010, 19:03
another 1.4 TSI 7spd DSG owner here :D
Greetings from a enthusiastic 1.4 Cupra owner.. Looking forward to your upgrades, especially the clutch work... even that would set loose a bit more power since revo can retune with new improved torque limit...
Greetings from a enthusiastic 1.4 Cupra owner.. Looking forward to your upgrades, especially the clutch work... even that would set loose a bit more power since revo can retune with new improved torque limit...
Perfect
I am so happy Revo UK is working with you guys to get tunes available to begin with!
Damoegan
17-12-2010, 15:56
Sam, REVO already have a code for this engine and I believe they also have a code for the DSG too (and I know they are currently working on a code for the new V3 DSG (dry clutch I think))..
duffy_90
17-12-2010, 19:34
One more 1.4 TSI DSG owner to add to your fast growing list :D
Sam, REVO already have a code for this engine and I believe they also have a code for the DSG too (and I know they are currently working on a code for the new V3 DSG (dry clutch I think))..
Great
I will talk with them on Monday to see if they will do a more aggressive tune now that the clutch department is being taken care of.
Another proud owner here! :D
Momentum is gathering quite nicely!
Momentum is gathering quite nicely!
I can see that!
better not disappoint then:lol:
I have the new Polo GTi so i guess i can post on here too.
New Cupra owner here too... :)
I have the new Polo GTi so i guess i can post on here too.
Where you based mate? I have been dying to actually see one. You got piccies up here any where?
Damoegan
18-12-2010, 21:23
Where you based mate? I have been dying to actually see one. You got piccies up here any where?
He's up in the NE. Check out the RR sectin for pics.
Schweet. Thanks mate. these clutch packs are gonna make a huge difference tuning wise.
Where you based mate? I have been dying to actually see one. You got piccies up here any where?
Have a look here bud:D
http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=296544
Mmmmm interesting developments. Might have to ditch the clio 200 cup plans and get a boc instead if this comes of.
It is gonna be insane when it's done mate.
It is gonna be insane when it's done mate.
so 270hp out of the 1.4 tsi!
Imagine that, id have a INA 600hp TTRS and a INA 270hp Boc! Would be so cool.
Pat15312
19-12-2010, 03:58
I just posted this in the thread above:
VW tested a version of this engine in the next gen polo cup car and they manage 260bhp. I am told that the engine VW used was quite a long way from the one you'd find in the ibiza cupra/scirocco/polo gti.
I got my roc to 220bhp with full milltek tbe, forge twintake, forge twintercooler and Revo software. Revo's claim of 220bhp on just software seems a bit optimistic (mine was more like 205bhp). At time of sale it was considered the highest spec 1.4TSI in the UK.
The main thing you'll struggle with when tuning this engine is software provision; I must have made a dozen phone calls trying to get a release date for stage 2 Revo software. The answer I got is "it's in the pipeline" but they have more pressing matters at present. It's not considered a true performance engine unfortunately, you'll never get away from this and it's the stance most tuners have :(
Your other option is doing it yourself... The Greeks have recently taken it the furthest by taking apart the stock turbo and going down the hybrid route. If you believe the dyno lottery, it's good for 240-250bhp. The plots leave a bit to be desired though...
Taking it further, I went a long way down investigating the feasibility of BT. The engine is possibly capable of 320bhp using a larger Garrett turbo (can't remember model of hand). No idea how it would drive or if the internals are up to it but a certain turbo specialist suggested this to be a reasonable expectation.
The problem you've got then is the supercharger, or more specifically, the cut out revs. If I remember correctly, the SC cuts out at 3200rpm meaning you need to find a turbo that can provide the same or greater amount of torque as the SC at this rpm otherwise you will hit a horrible flat spot on the rev band until the turbo spools up enough to carry acceleration through.
If that still hasn't scares you off then the financials might; about Ģ2k for the parts + installation + custom software. Also, you'll be the first meaning you'll probably have to find a suitable fuelling system and shell out for custom pistons/rods.
I'd love to see someone do this, I adore this engine. However unless your a proper tuning company then good luck! Your gonna bloody need it!!!
GrDuDe_Cupra
19-12-2010, 09:51
I am gone for holidays only to come back and see this. Add me to the list, i need the uprated clutch badly.
I read something about the engine resistances in earlier posts. Currently there is one GOlf GT in greece that produced 293 bhp with hybrid turbo and water/menathol injection system with STOCK internals.
I am sure the internals will handle 270 easily. they are not standard but strengthened from the manual I have read. The main thing holding us back at the moment is the clutch on the box and once that is sorted you can slowly pump up the power. I don't want any thing insane but I recon 250 to 260 will do me just fine in this small car.
Damoegan
19-12-2010, 11:11
I'm lead to believe that REVO have had a Boc running 270bhp for a while now :shrug:
I'm lead to believe that REVO have had a Boc running 270bhp for a while now :shrug:
interesting need to give carl a ring
I agree. Have REVO been holding out on us????!!!!
Obviously dyno's are all a bit over the place but on my boc standard apart from a stage 1 revo dyno'ed the below results..
Currently there is one GOlf GT in greece that produced 293 bhp with hybrid turbo and water/menathol injection system with STOCK internals.
Very interesting!
more on this?
Ibiza Cupra DSG + Hybrid K04= ???bhp & ???Nm:
Hybrid K04? Is it a billet compressor wheel?
Taking it further, I went a long way down investigating the feasibility of BT. The engine is possibly capable of 320bhp using a larger Garrett turbo (can't remember model of hand). No idea how it would drive or if the internals are up to it but a certain turbo specialist suggested this to be a reasonable expectation.!
For 320bhp that is probably a 28RS. I would imagine that is too large for a 1.4 TSI motor but we wont know until we try it. As for the Supercharger, I will talk with Revo UK tomorrow and get the inside scoop on this.
GrDuDe_Cupra
20-12-2010, 08:38
Very interesting!
more on this?
Ibiza Cupra DSG + Hybrid K04= ???bhp & ???Nm:
Hybrid K04? Is it a billet compressor wheel?
I had 2 failures. we tried a different aluminium and K04-64 front impeller and K04-023 back impeller balanced at 135k rmp and the result was that the turbine was strangling the front impeller which resulted in side detachment of the front impeller( aka it was breaking the front impeller into pieces.In this construction we used billet impellers.
Went to a different turbine master and now i use and K03-76 aluminium sized up, with S3 front and back impellers and axle from K04-023 and we also changed the cartridge.
Finally the car worked fine.In this construction we didnt use billet impellers. I still havent finalised my fine tuning as i am running on a mild file @1,45bar and 1.1bar @ limiter. Bhp i dont know yet, but my car loaded with 3 people and 100 kilos+ on the trunk had identical performance output with a new Z4 3.0 (258bhp).
As far as the supercharger is concerned its by EATON and it is excellent.Here in greece they prepare a Golf GT with 28R turbine and they claim the supercharger is sufficient. But in this case we are talking about a forged engine, their problem is how to keep the mechanical "door" of the supercharger open in order to spool the turbine.
I will look more about the other hybrids and let you know but i need to translate them into eglish first :P
Nice work grdude. Glad to hear the new set up on the turbo seems to holding up. When you getting it on the rollers so we can see bhp figures?
VW tested a version of this engine in the next gen polo cup car and they manage 260bhp. I am told that the engine VW used was quite a long way from the one you'd find in the ibiza cupra/scirocco/polo gti.
I got my roc to 220bhp with full milltek tbe, forge twintake, forge twintercooler and Revo software. Revo's claim of 220bhp on just software seems a bit optimistic (mine was more like 205bhp). At time of sale it was considered the highest spec 1.4TSI in the UK.
Hi Pat, you may remember me from Rocco Central. Quite a few car's with just stage 1's have made 220BHP now. I will take mine to Awesome eventually and get a read out. (I run Mode C 99Ron only). I'm pretty sure thats where your's was done. I know our map is different to the Rocco map and this may be where the extra power is coming from.
Oh and Poverty, you know you want to stay VAG :D I went out with my mate in a clio 200 not so long ago. With a Stage 1 I was faster when in front and when following there was no corners I couldnt stick with him on. I do have Coilovers and Rear ARB though. You saw what mine could do on the quarter. Bet your TTRS is insane, your a lucky bloke!
Also see this thread, the info starts coming on page 2. Page 1 is mostly "naah you can't do that" http://uk-mkivs.net/forums/t/381488.aspx?PageIndex=2
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:qpGDNXsQx5-UKM:http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p90/stellaplease/awesome_thread.jpg&t=1
Very good read that Mark. I wanna see the end result too hahahaha
UPDATE:
Managed to get a 1.4 TSI turbocharger off the single turbo motor (not twin charged) down to our US turbocharger expert extraordinare pirate....
should be exciting what they come up with. I am willing to bet the CHRA's are interchangeable but the compressor housings (from the looks of things) are different.
Pat15312
22-12-2010, 15:06
UPDATE:
Managed to get a 1.4 TSI turbocharger off the single turbo motor (not twin charged) down to our US turbocharger expert extraordinare pirate....
should be exciting what they come up with. I am willing to bet the CHRA's are interchangeable but the compressor housings (from the looks of things) are different.
I would expect a larger compressor housing on the twincharged version to carry more power surely? I wasn't aware that the 1.4 twincharged engine was available in the US :shrug:
I would expect a larger compressor housing on the twincharged version to carry more power surely? I wasn't aware that the 1.4 twincharged engine was available in the US :shrug:
Only one way to find out and no the 1.4TSI was not available here. We imported all the components from the UK and neighboring countries.
Pat15312
22-12-2010, 15:13
Oh fair doos... why the interest in the product? Not a bad thing, just that other US companies such as APR had no interest in doing any development as it's not an engine they have over there and traditionally you lot prefer the comfort of a big engine (size matters apparently ;)). Hence the reason the Jetta 2.5 is still going strong, despite being a crap engine on paper...
Oh fair doos... why the interest in the product? Not a bad thing, just that other US companies such as APR had no interest in doing any development as it's not an engine they have over there and traditionally you lot prefer the comfort of a big engine (size matters apparently ;)). Hence the reason the Jetta 2.5 is still going strong, despite being a crap engine on paper...
Well to be fair I dont run a "US" company so I dont think like them. Ive worked on 1.4 16V polo engines in the past so when I was asked to develop a clutch pack for the 7-speed DSG it just spiraled from there. This is what INA is known around the globe for....VW engines , does not matter what displacement or where it came from. To this day I still get people asking me how to build 16V G60 motors...
APR has not developed hardware in probably 4-5 years? They have enough on there plate with respect to software that they prefer to leave the hardware to companies like us.
The 2.5 Motor is a dud motor , amazing motor (to me) but to the rest of the north america a dud....if you have money you wouldnt buy a 2.5 Jetta and turbo it , you would just buy a GLI as sad as it sounds.
Pat15312
22-12-2010, 15:30
I wish i'd got in touch with you when I had my 1.4 Roc :( It was sooo disheartening to not be able to find anyone of any interest in this engine... perhaps it was all too early days, there seems to be a larger following now. Oh well i'll just have to leave it to these guys!!!
Also with respect to this post:
For 320bhp that is probably a 28RS. I would imagine that is too large for a 1.4 TSI motor but we wont know until we try it.
I found some old emails between myself and said turbo developer, see below:
This is not an application that we have looked into before. We have thought about this and the best option that we can suggest is a turbo spec based around a GT2560R. Anything GT28 based will be too slow to spool up on the 1.4L engine. So you will end up with a big hole in the torque curve when the supercharger cuts out.
In any case it will be difficult to achieve more than 300hp with the turbo making suitable boost by 3000 rpm so that there is no hole when the supercharger cuts out. Maybe we can do something else if you can raise the rpm where the supercharger cuts out, but then we do not know what happens to performance with the supercharger over this rpm.
The turbo we propose is not an off the shelf unit, it is one that we need to build. We plan to use a 0.49AR turbine housing to help get the turbo spinning up early (as it is only a 1.4L engine) and also to use a 0.42AR compressor cover to help deliver as much mid-range as possible. This will be on the limit at 300hp though, and as I say above there is little that can be done to get around the spool up / power compromise.
The price of the turbo is a bit high, as we need to build it from parts, and works out at Ģ****.** (exc VAT)
My initially quoted figure of 320bhp seems slightly exagerated, it was this email I was remembering back to so no idea where I got that figure from lol. They agree with what you said about the GT28, that it would be too laggy...
UPDATE:
DHL dropped off a package today with an OEM Clutch/Flywheel system from a 1.4 TSI. Off it goes for development.
Only component left is the Complete Engine & Gearbox.
Things are gonna start happening now then hehehehehehhehehe. With regards to the turbo lag problem. Am I not mistaken in saying that the only innitial problem you are going to have will be with the initial pull away and change to second. Meaning if you're running a 1/4 mile as after second gear your in turbo country any way so it should be spooling up as normal? Also, our guy from greece, GRDUDECUPRA has done some work to his turbo and from what I have read seems to be ok. Just waiting on him getting the map done and on the rollers. I am almost sure it is possible and perhaps a pully upgrade on the supercharger will sort that too as it can hold the boost and not smash the turbine to pieces either.
Pat15312
22-12-2010, 21:13
Not so much as the SC does all the work up to 2500rpm and the majority of the work between 2500rpm and 3000rpm. The issue is that a bigger turbo will spool up later on than the standard turbo and currently there is no way of making the SC carry on past 3000rpm, causing a hole in power and torque between the SC disengaging and the turbo being spooled up. This is really the only issue with BT and this engine.
Can,t the Turbo be made to spool up lower down the rev range. The K04 twin scroll makes power as low as 2200rpm on the 2 litre unit, granted its not in full swing till nearer 4k but you see what i,m getting at.
Damoegan
22-12-2010, 21:46
Its the lack of displacement that holds any larger turbo back, Ry..
Its the lack of displacement that holds any larger turbo back, Ry..
But surely this engine doesn,t need a large turbo, just one thats spooled up by 2000rpm.
I am sure if we get right mix of impellar inside the stock turbo it can be done also with some tweaking on the map.........
But surely this engine doesn,t need a large turbo, just one thats spooled up by 2000rpm.+1 Ryan, small turbo for low down torque, big turbos give you more top end power but a lot of turbo lag, the whole idea of the turbo and supercharger is to give you a wide spread of power out of a small cc engine.
Its the lack of displacement that holds any larger turbo back, Ry..
Correct.
The issue is that a bigger turbo will spool up later on than the standard turbo and currently there is no way of making the SC carry on past 3000rpm, causing a hole in power and torque between the SC disengaging and the turbo being spooled up. This is really the only issue with BT and this engine.
If there was a way to increase the clutch cut off on the supercharger that would be great. I am thinking a larger pulley (read larger , not smaller) will allow more focus to be placed on turbocharger than on the supercharger. If we could increase the RPM cut off for the supercharger to say 3500 rpm's then that gives us an extra 500 rpm's to allow delayed turbocharger spool time.
One of the advantages of HTA treatment to any turbocharger is the reduction in spool time over the OEM unit. Obviously this is amplified with displacement and unfortunately we do not have alot of it.
I have not been able to find that much reading material with respect to 1.4 TSI and the supercharger. If it shuts off based on RPM rather than on psi generation then we can handle that.
Of course this is all brain storming and speculation. I wont know until I actually SEND an upgraded turbocharger for testing purposes.
Hopefully with the help of Dean, Awesome-GTI will be on board for this as well as a few others so alot of fun stuff will start happening soon. Cant make any promises but I am excited about this.
How many of you would be interested in a steel SMF to replace the DMF on these vehicles?
GrDuDe_Cupra
23-12-2010, 06:57
Correct.
I have not been able to find that much reading material with respect to 1.4 TSI and the supercharger. If it shuts off based on RPM rather than on psi generation then we can handle that.
The supercharger is closing its "mechanical door" based on rpm. For a reasonable project i wouldnt have thought the compressor needs any upgrading but i am looking foward to see what you guys will come up with.
A bit off topic what is your opinion about getting a hybrid that will net you 250-260 and then instead of going for bigger turbines + peripherals that will cost more stick a W/M injection system and get an extra 20-30 bhp. Obviously the power will not be constant and you will have it only when you run the menathol file.
The supercharger is closing its "mechanical door" based on rpm. For a reasonable project i wouldnt have thought the compressor needs any upgrading but i am looking foward to see what you guys will come up with.
A bit off topic what is your opinion about getting a hybrid that will net you 250-260 and then instead of going for bigger turbines + peripherals that will cost more stick a W/M injection system and get an extra 20-30 bhp. Obviously the power will not be constant and you will have it only when you run the menathol file.
I actually have a very low opinion on water/meth kits. We use them as "band aids" at best...
do they get the job done? Sure they do but I have seen far too many mis haps with water injection to just use the right fuel from the start.
Had a customer of mine that melted #1 piston because his reservoir went dry while in WOT.
I wouldnt necessary say we are going to go with a larger compressor wheel , more like seeing what the OEM 1.4 TSI unit is and seeing if we have anything comparable.
How many of you would be interested in a steel SMF to replace the DMF on these vehicles?
Sorry, I aint so technical. What is SMF and DMF?
Pat15312
23-12-2010, 09:36
Single mass flywheel and dual mass flywheel.
I'm gonna risk tarring everybody with the same brush here but generally, in my experience, 1.4TSI guys aren't the sought of people to commit to something like water meth. To be honest its not something I would have been interested in either if I really sat down to weight the pros and cons... Also, the whole concept is no where near as pillows as it is in the USA so very little support base.
Single mass flywheel and dual mass flywheel.
I'm gonna risk tarring everybody with the same brush here but generally, in my experience, 1.4TSI guys aren't the sought of people to commit to something like water meth. To be honest its not something I would have been interested in either if I really sat down to weight the pros and cons... Also, the whole concept is no where near as pillows as it is in the USA so very little support base.
Well one of the major reasons why its successful over in North America with the FSI crowd (2.0 FSIT that is) is because the guys use it to "wash" the valves down. Not necessarily a performance adder.
Of course if you have a catch can and no blow by is being vented into the intake manifold then this becomes a mute point.Any of you have catch cans as yet?
I think the demand for 300BHP along with the upgrades such as the charger, turbo etc over the standard equipment will be much smaller than say a clutch upgrade, hybrid combo producing 250/260BHP.
What is nice about the charger is the with the constant boost you always pretty much know what you’re getting in 1st gear up to 3000rpm, so it will still be easy to launch then when the big power of the hybrid comes you should already have a fair amount of traction.
With regards to the SMF i’m guessing this is on the manual box? With the DSG the ideal mod would be up rated clutchpacks and a real LSD. XDS could then be turned off so would not cook the brakes as much on track.
How would the SMF hold up to the additional torque is the question i guess and what are the main benefits?
iīam also interested in this Single Mass Flywheel!
Single mass flywheels are more durable and can handle more torque but they tend to rattle on idle. I dont know how this would work on a DSG. I'm guessing its for the manual box on the 1.4TSI's.
Well one of the major reasons why its successful over in North America with the FSI crowd (2.0 FSIT that is) is because the guys use it to "wash" the valves down. Not necessarily a performance adder.
Of course if you have a catch can and no blow by is being vented into the intake manifold then this becomes a mute point.Any of you have catch cans as yet?
How about a catch can for a TTRS?
Single mass flywheels are more durable and can handle more torque but they tend to rattle on idle. I dont know how this would work on a DSG. I'm guessing its for the manual box on the 1.4TSI's.
The dry clutch DSG 1.4 TSI uses a slot type Dual Mass steel flywheel.We could have these constructed to single mass format. I doubt you would get flywheel chatter with the steel units as they weight 17lbs. The clutch is going to be tricky, the only thing we can do is upgrade the material of the discs.
How about a catch can for a TTRS?
Is there a need for one?
Will that handle the additional torque we're after though? You're basically saying clutch will be the same but stronger or more durable material used instead?
Will that handle the additional torque we're after though? You're basically saying clutch will be the same but stronger or more durable material used instead?
a more durable material will be used.
Excellent!!!!!! Can't wait now heheheheheehhe
Damoegan
23-12-2010, 22:32
What about the springs on the clutch plate, could you do those?
Big-Pete
24-12-2010, 08:36
whats stopping you fitting a golf gti gearbox? the DQ300 or is there asignificant size diffrance?!
and as its a 7 speed does 7 ever get used? or is it seriously a motorway gear?
and as its a 7 speed does 7 ever get used? or is it seriously a motorway gear?
Kicks in at about 40mph if you're cruising.
the DQ250 (from Golf GTI) donīt Fit at this 1.4 TSI engine.
the 7. Gear are a motorway gear, but thats good if you donīt drive it fast all the way :P.
You'd be supprised how often these cars go into 6th and 7th. Does take a little while to learn the power band though.
I dont think the manual from the 'rocco will fit in the engine bay of the Ibiza.
02S/02J should fit but that takes away all the fun.
This gearbox is very much huge.
Come to think of it, wont the 7 speed wet box be a direct fit? Apart from the additional weight it should work well and it can handle more torque too?
the new 7Gear Wet Box (DQ500) donīt fit!
itīs a really big gearbox for Tiguan and Multivan...
Aaaahhhhh ok, bin that idea then hahahahahahaha. I am sure what we develop here will be more than sufficient for the current box tbh.
I dont think you want a wet box DSG anyway.
LOL. True, we are trying to save on weight any way. I can't wait for this clutch pack to be sorted mate.
will let everyone know in the new year what is happening
*BUMP* Haven't forgotten about this.
*BUMP* Haven't forgotten about this.
I have it stickied now so it should be @ the top of the forum at all times.
has anyone here encountered a failure with there mechatronic unit?
This doesn’t ring a bell. I think there has been 2 gear box replacements in total on the forum but they have been manufacturing faults rather than failures later down the line.
This doesnt ring a bell. I think there has been 2 gear box replacements in total on the forum but they have been manufacturing faults rather than failures later down the line.
anywhere i can read this?
Here is the one mate. He is only getting his car back next week I believe.
http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=291349
Rainstorm4
07-01-2011, 16:59
i m sure i ve read somewhere, that compressor disengages from 3500 to 4500 depending on demand,
will try to find the info,
edit: now that i ve searched a bit, it seems that either i was wrong or cant find it:P
i m sure i ve read somewhere, that compressor disengages from 3500 to 4500 depending on demand,
will try to find the info,
edit: now that i ve searched a bit, it seems that either i was wrong or cant find it:P
Its 3500 rpm's from what I have been reading.
The other box was on the isle of Man I think. Can't remember the username as it was ages ago. Other than that the box's have been pretty solid so far. Other than the rattle which they all have.
I've now got 20k miles on my car 11k with stage 1 and no issues.
MAJOR UPDATE:
Just had a minute to fully check out this thread:
http://uk-mkvs.net/forums/t/381488.aspx?PageIndex=3
At first it did not click to me but Overboost is our Dealer for Cyprus. I built Panayiotis his single kit for his S4 so when I told him about this thread he immediatly jumped on board. It turns out the 1.4 TSI turbo motor and the 1.4TSI twincharged motor uses the same pistons.
We have made pistons for the 1.4 TSI Turbo engine so now we have the following:
Pistons - Name the CR you want
Connecting Rods
Calico coated bearings
ARP Main studs
T25 Turbo Manifold
I have the 1.4 Head out for flowing and testing and will start with the valvetrain soon with Ferrea.
So In Development.
DSG Dry Clutch kit
Revo Stage 3 reflashing - later on
Ferrea Valvetrain & CNC ported head program
Does anyone know where I can find the compressor map for the 1.4 TSI turbocharger? I want to see how it flows.
Is it not in the manual I sent you mate? Page 15 shows the flow. Prices on those parts by the way? Can't believe that guys is gonna get 500bhp outta that motor!
Is it not in the manual I sent you mate? Page 15 shows the flow. Prices on those parts by the way? Can't believe that guys is gonna get 500bhp outta that motor!
That isnt a compressor map mate :(
I need to know what the turbo flows in lbs/min or similar. You can make 1000bhp from the motor if you wanted.
Depends what you are willing to sacrifice...
It will make 500bhp but it wont be before 5000 rpm's that is for certain. The VE is just not there for a 1.4L motor.
I would be happy with the 260 to 280bhp hehehehehehe. Will see what I can find for you wrt to the flow map. Found this so dunno if it may help you calculate it:
http://www.lovehorsepower.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=4&Itemid=88
I would be happy with the 260 to 280bhp hehehehehehe. Will see what I can find for you wrt to the flow map. Found this so dunno if it may help you calculate it:
http://www.lovehorsepower.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=4&Itemid=88
That cant work for me.
We basically need to see the efficiency of the compressor.
:(
mmmmmm, ok then. Not too sure now mate.
Its a K03 turbo is it not? Wont it be the same for all K03 turbos?
Its a K03 turbo is it not? Wont it be the same for all K03 turbos?
I do not believe so no.
majesty78
13-01-2011, 16:30
Sorry, but reading this makes me some kind of, well, lets say, think about ist twice...
http://uk-mkvs.net/forums/p/381488/2682358.aspx#2682358
I cant imagine thats the truth this guy is telling reffering to the gap in the dyno curve.
A car on a twin roll maha lps3000 PLUS 250kg of weight on the front of the car will NEVER EVER slip tyres with "only" 380Nm @ 4000rpm.
I had cars on this type of dyno in the same weight class (Seat Ibiza) or even with way less weight (MY own Ibiza with 1100kg) and have been reading close to 500Nm without having need for any extra weight to prevent slip.....
I am much more to believe its the gap between the supercharger/ uprated turbocharger switch point which caused this brake down in power....
But well, maybe I am just wrong;)
Regards, Alex
In all honesty if the turbo has been upgraded I can't see how there would be such a big dip between the charger disengaging and the turbo spooling up. The turbo already spools before the charger disengages for a smooth delivery of power. I think the custom tuning has something to do with it if I have to be honest but, I may also be wrong hehehehehehhee
http://i712.photobucket.com/albums/ww129/FLIGHTRE/IMG_0576.jpg
this any good to you? all i got atm might be able to find what you need. Thank jc if its right. if not get him to moan at me and ill try find somthing.
Not actually read the thread so ifthat looks right i can get better.
In all honesty if the turbo has been upgraded I can't see how there would be such a big dip between the charger disengaging and the turbo spooling up. The turbo already spools before the charger disengages for a smooth delivery of power. I think the custom tuning has something to do with it if I have to be honest but, I may also be wrong hehehehehehhee
The supercharger is set to disengage at that speed because it is set to a stock turbo, in all likelihood if a bigger turbo is taking longer to spool there would be a big gap in power until it is fully spooled exactly like in in his rolling road results. Tweaks would need to be looked at for the supercharger to accommodate this longer spool time.
I think 90% on the people wont be going for this much power so wont need to worry about power curves (if you can call it a curve) like that.
When are you expecting the clutches(i presume two since its a twin clutch) to be complete. and what sort of price are you expecting.
next Q is ho easy is it to remove/re-install, so we can get an idea of labour time/costs
Sy
http://i712.photobucket.com/albums/ww129/FLIGHTRE/IMG_0576.jpg
this any good to you? all i got atm might be able to find what you need. Thank jc if its right. if not get him to moan at me and ill try find somthing.
Not actually read the thread so ifthat looks right i can get better.
Thanks spurt! Hope this is the right thing.
got a few more diagrams if helps
Stick 'em up mate. More info the better I guess.
this any good to you?
No mate
I am looking for this:
http://www.full-race.com/store/images/full/borgwarner-efr-9180-turbo-content-1.jpg
When are you expecting the clutches(i presume two since its a twin clutch) to be complete. and what sort of price are you expecting.
Usually takes anywhere from 8 weeks to 16 weeks for a completed product to surface. Without having core clutches to work off , we have to cut all new splines and create a whole new product.
next Q is ho easy is it to remove/re-install, so we can get an idea of labour time/costs
Sy
Whatever your shop charges to do a regular clutch change is what they will charge to do this. The 7 Speed DSG uses a dry clutch so to replace/repair simply requires removal of the gearbox. The gearbox itself does not need to be touched. I estimate no more than 5 hours of labour time.
We can change a clutch in an 02J Golf in under 2 hours.Thats install and refit, not sure what that translates to with respect to the 7 speed DSG.
http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/images/tech_center/tech_103/tech103.gif
This is the sort of thing Issam is looking for.
But you need to go look at the turbo to ID it correctly. I'd do it, but it's like 12,000 miles away
Oh I know these we did them in my Building Services class they look just like the fan/pump duty charts to establish optimum flow. I now understand what we are after but don’t have access to them. Garret is by Honeywell so if we know the actual model of the charger it might be worth contacting them direct and asking them for a data sheet.
Oh I know these we did them in my Building Services class they look just like the fan/pump duty charts to establish optimum flow. I now understand what we are after but dont have access to them. Garret is by Honeywell so if we know the actual model of the charger it might be worth contacting them direct and asking them for a data sheet.
Thats what I am after.
so when are we expecting these clutches to be available for purchase, also any predicted prices?
im not bothered about turbo upgrades personally, but the clutch will 100% be done if its available
Sy
pffff ill take a look on elsa but i doubt it will have stuff like that. anyone asked techie?
Another 1.4 TSI DSG owner here :)
aski_2010
15-01-2011, 12:24
another very eager and interested 1.4TSI owner tracking this thread
CyborgCupraJQ
15-01-2011, 15:01
Another owner here :bleh:
I think its fair to say that interest with a clutch will not be a problem.
think of the platforms with the 7spd DSG (tiptronic in audi but same as DSG)
Ibiza Cupra/Fr, Polo GTI, Fabia vRS, Octavia 1.4TSI/1.8TFSI, Golf 1.4TSI, Audi A3 /1.4TSI. A1 1.4TSI, ....
Lots of which are and will be remapped, so the market is definitely there
so when are we expecting these clutches to be available for purchase, also any predicted prices?
To change the material of the clutch packs is around 350 USD or so + the labour to do the rivets and such.
The biggest manipulating factor in the kit is the fact that we have to order an OEM clutch package each time which will fluctuate with the dollar . Given that I wouldnt want to sell a used kit what we will be offering is the following:
CORE CHARGE (in Euro's depending on the price) + Shipping + UPGRADE.
How I would like to run this is with a bulk order group buy arranged through 1 of our UK dealers so basically you pay them , they pay us , we ship to them, they ship to you.
Therefore cost price to us goes through the ceiling. You know the supplier used here will include their mark up. This could very costly.
Therefore cost price to us goes through the ceiling. You know the supplier used here will include their mark up. This could very costly.
Jason this is all long term. I am sure when the time comes pricing will be favorable but it is what it is...without manufacturing a clutch pack from scratch we have to go this route.
yeah I understand mate. I just get nervous when I start hearing about middle men and third party operators getting involved as prices then seem to spiral out of control.
yeah I understand mate. I just get nervous when I start hearing about middle men and third party operators getting involved as prices then seem to spiral out of control.
Totally understood.
So others who live in the rest of Europe and specifically I that live in Greece will have to order it from a UK dealer?
So others who live in the rest of Europe and specifically I that live in Greece will have to order it from a UK dealer?
Ideally this is how I would like to do it.
Get one of our UK dealers on board to facilitate a GB ....we ship 1 batch to the UK and then they ship from there to you.
It should work out cheaper for you for the savings in shipping.
If you or anyone else has any suggestions let me know.
Ideally this is how I would like to do it.
Get one of our UK dealers on board to facilitate a GB ....we ship 1 batch to the UK and then they ship from there to you.
It should work out cheaper for you for the savings in shipping.
If you or anyone else has any suggestions let me know.
One thing that's good for sure is the customs and through UK there won't be such a problem. Thanks!
Very interesting as a new bocanegra owner
Keep them coming.
Should have something for you lads VERY soon.
Going to also be offering a Turbo service :)
aski_2010
21-02-2011, 15:25
:think:
Stevoz03
24-02-2011, 19:44
Could you elaborate more on the "turbo service" ? :)
Could you elaborate more on the "turbo service" ? :)
Sure,
Was going to do it when I had the unit back from FP but basically we will be taking the OEM manifold , sending it off to get extrude honed and then calico coated meanwhile the CHRA is going to receive a billet compressor wheel. I expect a faster spool and a little more top end without compromising drive ability.
Sounds good mate. I am also back now by the way so will mail you on Monday.
thats all well and good, but who would remap the hybrid? cant imagine revo doing it., thyehy have never done a hybrid before
thats all well and good, but who would remap the hybrid? cant imagine revo doing it., thyehy have never done a hybrid before
There is a first time for everything.
I will tip my hat off to the boys @ Revo as they seem to be doing alot of custom work as of late and I enjoy working with companies that put enthusiast forward.
they have never done a hybrid before
They have.... Even as far back as the E05 KO3x hybrid
Side track from the clutch situation.
We have been asked to produce aluminum pulleys for the 1.4 TSI engine.
Twin charged engine:
alternator
(1) idler
water pump
Turbocharged engine:
* Water pump
* (2) Idler pulleys
* Alternator
How many of you would be interested in this?
What would the benefits be mate? While we're on the subject too, how are we doing on development of the clutch?
ally pulleys would give a good benefit low down, i know they make a fair old difference on the minis and definitely on our jags.
What would the benefits be mate? While we're on the subject too, how are we doing on development of the clutch?
Hopefully this week coming I will have some exciting news for you and everyone.
:D
RESULT!!! I can't wait now hehehehehhhe. Especially since I will be going stage 2+ by the end of April.
WiSe Cupra
01-04-2011, 21:18
Another user of 1,4lt DSG here from the greek forum IbizaClub!
and another 1.4tsi dsg here
Another user of 1,4lt DSG here from the greek forum IbizaClub!
and another 1.4tsi dsg here
Welcome to the thread:D
Ordered up a DSG clutch kit from a 2.0 TDI MKV today. Going to show images between the 1.4 TSI 7 speed unit and 2.0 TDI 6 speed unit. They look very similar so this is a plus for everyone :D
Excellent! We need to get this kit tested asap mate. Most of us are starting to run stage 2 now but I for one wont go stage 2+ until this kit is on the car. The power is just too much and I have a feeling the clutch plate wont last too long hahahahahaha
Torque limits on the TDI clutch pack will be way above what we will ever need. Let's hope it fits.
if the diesel clutch is transferable thats a result, but whats happening with the upgraded clutch that you were looking at. IS that a non starter now
if the diesel clutch is transferable thats a result, but whats happening with the upgraded clutch that you were looking at. IS that a non starter now
Just finalizing pricing details.
From here we will get the product tested , get feedback and if it is a sucess then we begin Introductory GB's/etc and mass marketing of the product.
I know ALOT of 1.4 TSI users are anxiously awaiting this and I have never disappointed.
BTW this photo alone is making the MKV grow on me
http://www.facebook.com/seatibizacupra#!/photo.php?fbid=10150156035435829&set=pu.223167900828&type=1&theater
I can't wait to get this clutch kit sorted. When are you going to get some piccies up of it for us to see?
majesty78
20-04-2011, 09:12
uhm...how should a 6spd DSG clutch fit in a 7spd DSG?
6speed gearbox uses wet clutch system getting clamping pressure via oil pressure and 7speed is conventional dry clutch with mechanical pressure plate...and diameters also differ...
uhm...how should a 6spd DSG clutch fit in a 7spd DSG?
6speed gearbox uses wet clutch system getting clamping pressure via oil pressure and 7speed is conventional dry clutch with mechanical pressure plate...and diameters also differ...
It is simply for comparison pictures. I will be showing off the clutches in the 6 Speed DSG as well.
i.e. 02E vs 0AM
I can't wait to get this clutch kit sorted. When are you going to get some piccies up of it for us to see?
I have decided that the best way for us to go about this would be to offer a rebuild service.
Jason you know allready how much the OEM unit costs from the dealer and unfortunately due to the construction involved we will need to order one up every single time in order to modify it. I want to stray away from that considering most of the components within the assembly as useless.
thoughts / feedback?
It is a good idea Issam but this would mean everyone that wants a clutch kit would need to order up one then right? Then send it off to you or alternatively their car will stand once they remove the existing one to send off to you?
It is a good idea Issam but this would mean everyone that wants a clutch kit would need to order up one then right? Then send it off to you or alternatively their car will stand once they remove the existing one to send off to you?
What I would probably do is offer the clutch + core charge then the core will be refundable upon the return of a good useable core.
Look @ the bright side....the 02E boys pat upwards of $2200 for a clutch replacement kit and they have to pay labour to open up the gearbox.
You guys dont :p
Looking forward to seeing the full costs involved in this.
Sounds good then. By the way I am not at work again till next week Tuesday Issam so if you don't hear from me before then don't panic. I did reply to your e-mail today so will wait to see your reply on it.
GTIforpassion
06-05-2011, 10:56
Here I am, a 1.4 TSI owner !! :)
I'm very interested in tuning and upgrade for my engine !!
Any news ??
The first turbocharger left Wednesday for testing and file generation.
Just updating this.
We have another Clutch Pack in transit to us to be able to use another material for the clutch mating surfaces. The unit coming to us IS used and I am hoping to use this as a basis for what can be done with used units. Ultimately if this works out , this will reduce the core charge significantly (and of course allow a few of you to score your local VW shops for used OAM clutches).
Sounds good, so what about the completed unit you have?
Sounds good, so what about the completed unit you have?
Meet me on skype if you can.
Going to be arranging a GB for LSD's once the clutch has been tested.
Who is down for a combo? Add your name here:
1.
Going to be arranging a GB for LSD's once the clutch has been tested.
Who is down for a combo? Add your name here:
1.
1. jc_boc - in all honesty if I still have the car by next year but this sounds good.
Just adding some technical information here:
Stock 1.4 TSI : 76.50mm bore x 75.60mm stroke = 1390cc's
Stock 1.6 TSI N/A motor : 76.50mm bore x 86.90mm stroke = 1598cc's
I dont have a 1.6 TSI motor here as yet but I have ordered 1 piston and I am looking for a used crankshaft. I am willing to bet that VAG did the exact same thing with these 2 motors that they did with the timing chain 2.0TSI / 1.8TSI motors i.e. exact same piston but different length connecting rod and different stroke crankshaft to accomodate the displacement laws around the globe.
FWIW with an 86.90mm stroke piston and 78mm bore you are looking @ 1.7L (1661cc's)
Extra 300cc's should put most in a pretty decent mark for a good size turbocharger. I will be showing what we did with one of our aluminum blocks shortly to overcome to nikasil/alusil issue.
So are you saying the same cast iron block would be used with new 1.6 bored out pistons?
Imagine that with uprated clutch, LSD, tweeked Supercharger Cut off point and bigger turbo!! Serious serious power.
ibizaracebrake
05-06-2011, 13:12
My 14,000 mile 2009 1.4 TSi 220bhp engine is being rebuilt at the moment as it started to smoke and had increased crankcase pressure, pistons and valves caked in carbon, Injectors shot, big end bearings shot, possible problem with con rods, car at TSR Performance, what should they do? Forged pistons are on order from Germany. Will fit new injectors. Any help is good. What about clutches, had 2nd gear slip a few times.
So are you saying the same cast iron block would be used with new 1.6 bored out pistons?
Imagine that with uprated clutch, LSD, tweeked Supercharger Cut off point and bigger turbo!! Serious serious power.
Volkswagen Auto Group is like Lego. They hardly EVER design something new from scratch. They almost always homologate a new engine off an existing engine. The only new engine I have seen from VW was the 2.0 TSI timing chain motor ...a completely new design, however , practically most of the internals were from the existing 2.0 FSI motor.
Like I said if I know VAG , the 1.6 TSI engine will have ALOT in common with the 1.4 TSI motor. I have driven a turbocharged 1.4 TSI Golf and it was balls slow...I am guessing the displacement increase was to give it more power / drive ability.
The 1.4 TSI engine is not dead by any means. Its core is still a Polo motor and it will be homo-ligated until VAG is tired of it.
My 14,000 mile 2009 1.4 TSi 220bhp engine is being rebuilt at the moment as it started to smoke and had increased crankcase pressure, pistons and valves caked in carbon, Injectors shot, big end bearings shot, possible problem with con rods, car at TSR Performance, what should they do? Forged pistons are on order from Germany. Will fit new injectors. Any help is good. What about clutches, had 2nd gear slip a few times.
email me directly : iabed@inaengineering.com
we have dealt with TSR and you are in capable hands.
Stevoz03
06-06-2011, 13:07
I wasn't aware there was a 1.6 TSI motor? is this new? and is it just the same as ours (twincharged) but with a larger displacement?
Racebrake, Do u know why exactly your engine failed? or was it a combo of things?
INA, are you offering an uprated turbo, LSD and uprated clutch packs?
1.6tsi will be the replacement engine (hopefully) as used in the 2013 WRc POLO R and I think the Audi S1 will have the same. I don not believe it is twin charged and just turbo charged.
INA, are you offering an uprated turbo, LSD and uprated clutch packs?
Correct
I don not believe it is twin charged and just turbo charged.
It will be just turbocharged. Inside sources @ VAG told me that the twin charged motor all be it awesome was too expensive to produce/manufatcure. Keeping it turbocharged was much more simpler and cost efficient.
ibizaracebrake
06-06-2011, 17:24
I wasn't aware there was a 1.6 TSI motor? is this new? and is it just the same as ours (twincharged) but with a larger displacement?
Racebrake, Do u know why exactly your engine failed? or was it a combo of things?
INA, are you offering an uprated turbo, LSD and uprated clutch packs? looks like cold start mapping, faulty injectors and on-the-limit remap combo did it.
On the limit mapping? mmmm should I be worried then with stage 2? Touch wood I have not had any more issues.
Stevoz03
06-06-2011, 18:57
looks like cold start mapping, faulty injectors and on-the-limit remap combo did it.
What do you mean by cold start mapping? Mine idle's really rough aftrer having the ECU update and REVO installed. Dunno if this is normal (only when cold though)
Did you have your REVO on mode C? Mines on mode B so shouldn't be on the limit but my injectors will probably go soon because everyone else's seem to ... :cry:
Racebrake: do you think that the engine wear was accelareted because of all the track use you do? or completely unrelated?
INA: Regarding the turbo upgrade you will be offering, will it be upgrading the internals of the stock K03 turbine or will it be a completely new turbo? Would developing better injectors be possible as the OEM ones seem to be dodgy?
Lastly, The cupra/bocs already have an electronic LSD called XDS, would the LSD you will be offering be a mechanical system?
Sorry for the rant :D
INA: Regarding the turbo upgrade you will be offering, will it be upgrading the internals of the stock K03 turbine or will it be a completely new turbo? Would developing better injectors be possible as the OEM ones seem to be dodgy?
Lastly, The cupra/bocs already have an electronic LSD called XDS, would the LSD you will be offering be a mechanical system?
Sorry for the rant :D
Hey,
the LSD is actually no different than what is offered in other VW transmissions.
As for the turbo , it is a whole new turbo which starts out life as an OEM 1.4 TSI unit and is modified heavily.
GTIforpassion
07-06-2011, 08:10
Any updates for the modded turbocharger ?? :)
Issam
Do you think the injectors from the 2.0TFSi or 2.0TSI will work in the 1.4TSI twincharged engine? or are there any other options we could consider.
Issam
Do you think the injectors from the 2.0TFSi or 2.0TSI will work in the 1.4TSI twincharged engine? or are there any other options we could consider.
To be quite honest I have not tried.The issue with larger injectors is that the connectors may not be the same which means its is a modification to the harness that is irreversible (as in I have not found a male connector inside the Bosch/Siemens/etc catalog that mimics that of a TSI injectors)
Just adding some technical information here:
Stock 1.4 TSI : 76.50mm bore x 75.60mm stroke = 1390cc's
Stock 1.6 TSI N/A motor : 76.50mm bore x 86.90mm stroke = 1598cc's
I dont have a 1.6 TSI motor here as yet but I have ordered 1 piston and I am looking for a used crankshaft. I am willing to bet that VAG did the exact same thing with these 2 motors that they did with the timing chain 2.0TSI / 1.8TSI motors i.e. exact same piston but different length connecting rod and different stroke crankshaft to accomodate the displacement laws around the globe.
FWIW with an 86.90mm stroke piston and 78mm bore you are looking @ 1.7L (1661cc's)
Extra 300cc's should put most in a pretty decent mark for a good size turbocharger. I will be showing what we did with one of our aluminum blocks shortly to overcome to nikasil/alusil issue.
:think: Are you 100% sure about that...?
I'm asking cause soon I'm gonna order JE pistons for my 1.8 TSI... :whistle:
Do you have any specs for the rods...?
:think: Are you 100% sure about that...?
I'm asking cause soon I'm gonna order JE pistons for my 1.8 TSI... :whistle:
Do you have any specs for the rods...?
1.8 TSI pistons? If you need a set send over an email to sales@inaengineering.com
As far as I know , we are the only company supplying internals for a 1.8 TSI motor.
1.8TSI = 84.1mm stroke x 82.5mm bore = 1798cc's w/ 29.25mm CH
2.0TSI = 92.8mm stroke x 82.5mm bore = 1984cc w/29.6mm CH
CH difference = 0.35mm .
This affects the CR by 0.1 so that is what alots for the difference in compression ratio.
If you have a 1.8 TSI and you are looking at changing your pistons and rods then I would go with a 2.0 TSI timing chain crankshaft. We have alot of them here so if you need one let me know.
The only reason the 1.8 TSI motor exists is for tax purposes in some countries. It was cheaper for Volkswagen to take a 48mm radius crankshaft and offset grind it than it was to make completely new pistons. Seen this time and time again in the VAG crowd.
ibizaracebrake
19-07-2011, 17:03
Hi, I hope TSR have contacted you to enquire about availability of forged rods for my 1.4 TSi engine they are rebuilding. Whats the current situation? They were checking measurements last I heard, Thanks.
Hi, I hope TSR have contacted you to enquire about availability of forged rods for my 1.4 TSi engine they are rebuilding. Whats the current situation? They were checking measurements last I heard, Thanks.
Sent TSR a sample connecting rod. Awaiting a response as to what they think they can do.
Looks like we are on the right track.
It is unfortunate the US will NOT get the 1.4 TSI engine as it was eluded for 2012 , however, inside sources say we MIGHT get the 1.6 TSI motor which means it will be the first time a 1.2/1.4/1.6 "polo" motor will touch north american shores.
ibizaracebrake
27-07-2011, 18:22
Thanks, its killing me to not drive it while the rebuild is ongoing.:(
We have still not had any confirmation on this 1.6 tsi motor yet. i am "hoping" SEAT make an announcement at the frankfurt motor show in September before I order another car............
GrDuDe_Cupra
29-07-2011, 12:54
Ibizaracebrake here in greece we have custom forged CP pistons and custom forged rods have alook here.
I just bought a set.
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=236459446388265&set=o.111932032183934&type=1&ref=nf#!/group.php?gid=111932032183934
Ibizaracebrake here in greece we have custom forged CP pistons and custom forged rods have alook here.
I just bought a set.
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=236459446388265&set=o.111932032183934&type=1&ref=nf#!/group.php?gid=111932032183934
We dont use CP pistons and Pauter rods are too expensive for what they do...
There is a local company creating alot of buzz in the connecting rod department and we have been using there pieces for almost a year. Tested to almost 200hp/rod...id say that they are pretty stout.
I thought this car was in Cyprus? Right now I am in Santorini but I have business in Athens on Monday.If you want to meet up let me know
GrDuDe_Cupra
31-07-2011, 07:38
We dont use CP pistons and Pauter rods are too expensive for what they do...
There is a local company creating alot of buzz in the connecting rod department and we have been using there pieces for almost a year. Tested to almost 200hp/rod...id say that they are pretty stout.
I thought this car was in Cyprus? Right now I am in Santorini but I have business in Athens on Monday.If you want to meet up let me know
First of all sorry if this looked like an advertisment, if you want i can remove the link just pm me. The car is not located in cyprus , its from north greece, i blew up my 2nd cylinder also due to stupid injector, I needed a solution fast. Hopefully the injectors from the 1.8 tsi will work and we will avoid this in the future. god i hate Magneti Marelli .
Unfortunatelly i am 500km north of Athens. I bet you are having a good time, Santorini is trully beautiful.
First of all sorry if this looked like an advertisment, if you want i can remove the link just pm me. The car is not located in cyprus , its from north greece, i blew up my 2nd cylinder also due to stupid injector, I needed a solution fast. Hopefully the injectors from the 1.8 tsi will work and we will avoid this in the future. god i hate Magneti Marelli .
Unfortunatelly i am 500km north of Athens. I bet you are having a good time, Santorini is trully beautiful.
it is ok, the car in cyprus used the same rods that we supplied which look the same as what you have.
i thought 1.4tsi used bosch? whatever the case would be nice if you can join us in athens.
rods and pistons arent going to help if the injectors keep failing. we need some development work on these ASAP IMO. Who could we approach for injectors?
rods and pistons arent going to help if the injectors keep failing. we need some development work on these ASAP IMO. Who could we approach for injectors?
That has been sorted allready. The issue isnt fueling or clutch work anymore...its now tuning.
....tuning....tuning ........................tuning
Im considering a GT25 turbo on my car, so i can have more power but less boost and have the turbo mmuch more within limits Whats the deal with internals at the moment. Whats available required and reccomended for a bigger turbo conversion
Are you sure about the gt25 turbo? I mean if it's doable and all, cause the only guy here that tried a BT conversion ended up with a hybrid k04, and the k04 if I'm not mistaken is smaller than the gt25 you're thinking...
*My bad the GT25 is smaller than the k04, so inform us if it works out after all!
Im considering a GT25 turbo on my car, so i can have more power but less boost and have the turbo mmuch more within limits Whats the deal with internals at the moment. Whats available required and reccomended for a bigger turbo conversion
Here is my thinking.
the 1.4 TSI does not have displacement so if you want to use a larger turbocharger then I would focus on getting the most efficient unit. Something with a titanium turbine wheel and a billet compressor wheel, not just a regular off the shelf Garrett unit.
Just to Uopdate this :GrDuDe_Cupra & Fotis/Kosta of Porfiris Autosport have signed up to the 0AM 7-Speed DSG product testing.
Happy to have you guys on board.
Hi Issam
very nice to see you are working on the 1.4 Tsi engine. It brings great joy to see this happen. I am interested in your progress about a flowed head and upgraded valve train if you have any updates on that. I myself have blown piston #1 due to oil in the intake from the pcv system(high crank pressure?) now i replaced the pistons and rods with forged parts, also went abit crazy with the overbore and did 78.5mm. I have the single turbocharged variant, with hybrid turbo (upgraded compressor wheel).
robloake
07-09-2011, 16:51
I want 270 BHP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hi Issam
very nice to see you are working on the 1.4 Tsi engine. It brings great joy to see this happen. I am interested in your progress about a flowed head and upgraded valve train if you have any updates on that. I myself have blown piston #1 due to oil in the intake from the pcv system(high crank pressure?) now i replaced the pistons and rods with forged parts, also went abit crazy with the overbore and did 78.5mm. I have the single turbocharged variant, with hybrid turbo (upgraded compressor wheel).
what software are you using?
RBN??
No i was using a conservative software from a german company, and have put down 155 hp on the dyno with 0.59 bar boost at peak power. Right now engine needs to be assembled back and the new software will most likely be done by Revo.
Stevoz03
16-09-2011, 19:03
I want 270 BHP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That would be mental! doubt the DSG could handle that power though.
Any news on this? really interested in the price for the ported and polished head.
lucifer666
01-11-2011, 01:20
is there any news on this, only just stumbled across this thread just now. was out of the country when this thread first appeared. So glad someone is taking the time to persue tuning this engine, at around 270bhp it will be a rocket
GrDuDe_Cupra
04-11-2011, 08:00
Isaam any news on the clutch pack?
Isaam any news on the clutch pack?
Waiting on Fotis right now.
How is Greece?
Just to update this but looks like the OAM is coming to North America IF we get the 1.6 TSI.
hello from greece!!! Ina any news from the clutch pack? ??
Hello from Canada!
How far are you from Thesaloniki?