View Full Version : BR Motorsport Ibiza GTi RM130
I've just found an old magazine from 1994 with a review of a mk2 Ibiza 'RM130' tuned by BR motorsport. Are these people still around? In 1994 they were 'The Uk's No1 SEAT Performance Specialists'
The car itself was an 8v with 270 degree cam, remap, panel filter, Sebring backbox, Sachs suspension and some 16s. Looks real nice. They rave about the handling saying it's good as standard, but with this kit it's spot on. I thought it was quite interesting.
If its BRM as in Brian Ricketts, Rob T runs one of their engines
although sadly the company no longer trades :(
BRM Dead now - they did RobT's engine
M
What's the relationship between BRM and GTI Engineering? The latter bought the former?
Golf-GTI-MK1
09-02-2004, 20:51
Originally posted by edc
What's the relationship between BRM and GTI Engineering? The latter bought the former?
Brian Ricketts used to be a partner in GTI Engineering.
I thought they were trading, but under a slightly different name. BR Motor Services or something like that?
BeezerDiesel
10-02-2004, 04:23
That's right Tom, they became Audi quattro specialists some time ago but still do top quality servicing and all that. The old style tuning industry died a death some time ago so they switched to good quality maintainance, but would probably still do a conversion if you asked nicely.
I think Brian retired some time ago though but it's still family owned IIRC.
BR Motorsport became official SEAT tuners about 10 years ago and also did some 2.0 16v Toledo conversions (about 180bhp) OFFICIALLY and warranted through your local dealer back then.
Trouble with the 130 8v conversion was that it was just a cam and re-chip and not a gas flowed head too, and someone I knew who drove that grey car as used in the roadtest said that it drove like a 16v ie. very cammy and lost a lot of it's midrange.
Originally posted by BeezerDiesel
Trouble with the 130 8v conversion was that it was just a cam and re-chip and not a gas flowed head too, and someone I knew who drove that grey car as used in the roadtest said that it drove like a 16v ie. very cammy and lost a lot of it's midrange.
Yeah that would make sense. The stats in the magazine showed that while 0-60 was quicker, the in gear acceleration times were actually slower than standard. Nice grey colour though, I haven't seen one in that colour before.
A great loss to the tuning industry....BRM were ace at old-style tuning, heads/cams etc and made some of the best VW engines - for the 16V they did a BRM160, 170 and 180 - each had head and cams and incrementally increasing capacity - the 2L 16V wasnot available back then but they sourced some 2L blocks from the US for the 180. The 160 and 170 were I think 1800 and 1900 cc's. I have a BRM180 in my Ibiza that was originally fitted to a golf 2 rally car, some geezer in Morecambe owned it I believe. I have all the old literature from the firm at home.
The man to speak to about all this is Mark Yates - now at Revo - he used to work at BRM (and is in the brochure, a bit younger then)
Main difference between BRM and GTI engineering engines was GTIE used custom steel cranks and were subsequently much more expensive - I think they did a 2.1L (RE2100 - all engines were RE-something). If you ever find a GTIE engine, buy it for the crank even if the rest is scrap.
Shame they have gone - its getting really hard to find good engine builders for VW stuff.
Cheers
Rob
Just had a rather vague conversation with bbr, 1200+vat for P&P headwork and 268/276 cams, although they didnt sound too keen about it (prolly cos they serial port tune minis now)
:o
Rob,
Does your engine run on standard valve sizes? Anyone know what a big valve head will do in practice, as the last step?
i dont think its possible to run bigger valves in the 16v due to their orientation, bigger valves simply lets you put more fuel/air in and let it escape quicker
:cheers:
Originally posted by Saul
i dont think its possible to run bigger valves in the 16v due to their orientation, bigger valves simply lets you put more fuel/air in and let it escape quicker
:cheers:
AmD were doing a 'big valve head', but I've not heard of a runner to compare what the gains actually are. I know what the idea is, what sort of guesstimate gains you reckon possible + 5-10bhp?:confused: on an already ported head?
you sure it was a 16v? 8v big head was/is a popular conversion, cant say ive heard of a 16v runner as you say.
:dunno:
rob / bill / glyn shed any light?
Originally posted by edc
Rob,
Does your engine run on standard valve sizes? Anyone know what a big valve head will do in practice, as the last step?
My head has std valve sizes but not std valves - special waisted stem versions made by BRM.
VW 16V will take bigger inlet and exhaust valves.
Big valve heads should give more air - more air = more power - but it may be worse at lower revs as torque would be lost due to lower gas speeds
Probably fine for race-spec motor that revs a lot - I'd have one, big bucks though with a 16V
Dave
Originally posted by Saul
you sure it was a 16v? 8v big head was/is a popular conversion, cant say ive heard of a 16v runner as you say.
:dunno:
rob / bill / glyn shed any light?
Absolutely positive, I posted the response I got from AmD on another thread somewhere. They called it their PC16V3 or something like that conversion and it explicitly said 'big valve head' - £1900 mind (then, as techie said not done anymore).
Originally posted by RobT
My head has std valve sizes but not std valves - special waisted stem versions made by BRM.
VW 16V will take bigger inlet and exhaust valves.
Big valve heads should give more air - more air = more power - but it may be worse at lower revs as torque would be lost due to lower gas speeds
Probably fine for race-spec motor that revs a lot - I'd have one, big bucks though with a 16V
Dave
Interesting.
So what do the not-standard valves of standard size do for your engine? Is this more for relibility?
What about bigger valves with TBs and sufficient fueling/mapping? Would the low-down torque loss be hugely apparent over say the spec you currently run (speculation I know)?
hopkinsgm
10-02-2004, 16:33
Originally posted by edc
...So what do the not-standard valves of standard size do for your engine? Is this more for relibility?...
I would imagine that they do it as less material means less mass so should be possible to open and close the valves quicker. Benefits of this would be ability to use more aggressive open and close profiles on the cam and also ability to rev higher (with associated mods to bottom end, etc...).
I have read that while there is enough material that the 16v head CAN take bigger valves, in practices there's very little point because of shrouding issues. It's a lot of work and a lot of cash for not a lot of gain. And if it were a worthwhile mod, surely all the Golf boys would be doing it? The fact that they ain't (though plenty of 8v's with big valves out there) speaks volumes don't it?
Originally posted by hopkinsgm
I would imagine that they do it as less material means less mass so should be possible to open and close the valves quicker. Benefits of this would be ability to use more aggressive open and close profiles on the cam and also ability to rev higher (with associated mods to bottom end, etc...).
I have read that while there is enough material that the 16v head CAN take bigger valves, in practices there's very little point because of shrouding issues. It's a lot of work and a lot of cash for not a lot of gain. And if it were a worthwhile mod, surely all the Golf boys would be doing it? The fact that they ain't (though plenty of 8v's with big valves out there) speaks volumes don't it?
The race boys are doing it, and with 16V's - there are gains to be made but yes its more costly as need lots of machining done.
Waisted stem valves are when the stem is thinned down just behing the valve head but normal thickness when they enter the guide - increased flow around the valve, less 'stick' in the port to restrict flow. Proper race valves have very thin stems to improve flow - waisted stems are a compromise - will fit in std guides and can be made from std-type valves so are considerably cheaper than the full on race-spec thin stem valves.
Cheers
Rob