vr6

[alimac81]

if i could get hold of a second hand vr6 engine, how much do u reckon it would cost to get it fitted, id imagin quite a bit. :p

[danny842003]

i woudnt advise it. a fairly heavy lump and from what i hear fairly untunable without a lot of cash.
if you do get one get one from a corrado there a 2.9 not 2.8 and if i rember correctly have around 20bhp more than the golf lump.
A better solution would be a 1.8t. shoudnt be 2 hard to get hold of either.

[Garth]

The Vr6 IS fairly tuneable! Definately more so than the 2.0 16v. vr6 is easier and cheaper to transplant than the 1.8t engine for sure. The vr6 has shed loads more torque than the 16v engine and is better than the standard 20vt engine (Not a chipped one though!)

I was quoted a grand to have it done if I got the engine.

[Steve]

Yeah but it's well heavy. You'd need to sort ou tthe suspension to avoid handilng probs, i.e rock hard. Wiring would be a lot less complicated tahan thee 20VT tho...

[mark sheerin]

I think the vr6 would be a good choice...the corrado like the beezer mk2 was based on the mk11 golf gti chassis so I think the engine shouldn't upset the car much at all...uprate the front springs and dampers a little sure but the extra weight should help traction and maybe even solve some of the early chassis understeer the beezer gti suffers from..(not power understeer you cure that with your right foot..ie carefully)
Should make a very rapid car ... quicker than a 20vt...and sounding a lot nicer...
let me know how you get on...I have an 8v gti I may turn into a project...:)

Of course you'll need to get wider rubber...this is the area of difficulty with the beezer gti as widening the track is difficult..spacers being the only option and its never a perfect solution.

[F2 Stu]

It been done b4, went well, handeled shit cos of all that weight apperently.

id stick with the 2.0 8v it pushes out more than you think;)

[Glenn]

Originally posted by mark sheerin
I think the vr6 would be a good choice...the corrado like the beezer mk2 was based on the mk11 golf gti chassis so I think the
engine shouldn't upset the car much at all...

Not quite true, the Corrado uses Passat rear suspension with bearings that give a passive rear steer effect. All except the VR6 use some variation on Mk2 Golf front suspension but the VR6 uses the Mk3 Golf GTI/VR6 'Plus' axle set-up with a 10mm wider track.
This wider track is 'dialled out' when using the standard speedlines or Solitudes (Storm) as they have ET43 offset as opposed to ET38 on the other cars.

Add in that the Corrado VR6 weighs almost as much as a Leon @ 1236kg and has chassis strengthening measures that Mk2 Golfs don't, you can see that it's not really a valid comparison.

The Mk3 20VT is as close as the factory gets to a VR6 Ibiza in handling terms and I'd be extremely surprised if anyone thinks that's a good chassis. Even modified, it's no match for a standard Corrado - I've got and have tracked both.

Tuneability, if by that you mean there's loads of places that'll take your cash and give you a piece of paper showing bigger numbers then yeah, there's plenty available for the VR6. If you mean things that will actually make a measureable improvement, then the options narrow quite a bit. The only way to get more power out of a normally-aspirated car is to increase its V.E. which means head & cams, forget fancy filters & exhausts- they'll make next to f*ck all difference for the money. Big valve head on a VR6, done properly, not just polished up to look shiny, is the best part of £1500 (exchange) and should gain ~15bhp with some loss of torque at low revs. For the money it costs, there's no point in head work that retains stock valve sizes. Good quality cams (i.e. not P*per) are ~ £800 or ~£500 if you can do the work yourself.
Then you'll need a remap to suit - reckon on anything between £250-£500. Bear in mind that the youngest ABV 2.9 engine will be getting on 8-9 years old (mileage is no indicator) unless you can find a brand-new VAG replacement (£!!) so you'll have all the bugbears that come with bits wearing out.

In short, if you want a faster car, sell yours and buy a faster car - it's a lot less aggro than a 1/2 @rsed engine transplant. If something's cheap, there's a reason for it.

[tacroy]

I've not put one in an ibiza but done a few mk2 golf conversions.
Driven a supercharged vr6 mk2 which was nice.
As for finding a low milage engine, I stumbled across a german breakers which could help.
www.retek.de
Hope it helps.

[alimac81]

Thanks for the replies, sorry i didnt reply sooner ive been away in training :D.

There seems to be some mixed opinions posted. I personally like the sound of the VR6, and I realise that it will cost a bit to install into my beeza. I dont really want to sell it yes cos i would loose alot of money so I will probably w8 a year or so and possible get a corrado vr6 (if i can find one with decent milage) so for now i'll just try and get a bit more power out of the old 8v unit. (like drawing blood from a stone)

Thanks again for your views

Ali

[ANDY BLUNT]

As you guys probably know i used to have a mk2 jetta with 2.9 vr6,most of you are right it is heavy,it will give you horrible understeer due to weight balance,probably worst in a beeza.Even with full koni's ,neuspeed arb's including 28mm on rear,strut braces etc it was still a handfull.Much better in a corrado ,better balance,engine position,engine can be tuned at first cheaply,but gets very expensive to get more.190 standard,208 with amd chip and remus zorst,221 bhp with shrick cams,enlarged throttle body and pipercross rs500 intake filter etc.Was the best sounding car i will ever own:devil: coments at Coombe that it was the loudest thing on the main straight(racing a ford mustang),and winning:D .If only 20vt's could sound like that.:cheers: Andy

[stealth_boy]

How about going different altogether and going G60?:confused:

[Glenn]

Originally posted by stealth_boy
How about going different altogether and going G60?:confused:

Try : http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=314345#post314345

Forget 'novelty' conversions, do you want reliability and genuine pace or do you want 'respect' from burberry-clad gimps while your car spends >6months of a year laid up in a garage because it won't run properly?

[stealth_boy]

Nice, still, VR or G60 would be a little different and head turning in a beeza don't ya think?

[alimac81]

Quote: Stealth boy
[How about going different altogether and going G60?]

I have wondered about dropping a g60 lump under the bonnet but as Glenn pointed out, the damn superchager has a habit of breaking every so often. Unless i come across one in decent order and for the right price I wont consider it. Im not even sure how much it would cost to install and what work would need to be done. :confused:

Does anyone have any links to previous threads regarding g60 conversions?

Ali

[stealth_boy]

Try one of the club GTI forums, theres not too much difference when it comes to engine transplants between VAG cars. Someone once put a VR6 in to a Skoda Felicia!!!!!
I hope you get sorted, good luck.:cheers:

[BeezerDiesel]

Have to agree with Glenn having owned a VR6 Golf or two, they ain't worth putting in an Ibiza, you wouldn't gain anything that you couldn't get out of a decent tune of your 8v and would lose fuel economy, handling, and any chance of getting some money back on re-sale.
If you want it to sound nice then get a decent quality exhaust coupled with a good quality head conversion and a fully mapped ecu. A proper (Remus, Sebring, Superspring) TUNED exhaust(as opposed to a shite quality big bore stainless jobbie with all it's inherant resonance) will make the car sound like a good old fashioned twin cam Fiat engine (lovely) without the V6 fuel economy.

Most of these engines mentioned for transplants will make your car heavier without that much more drivability in a road car than a tuned 8v can provide. Just because everybody who writes into PVW or The Golf had spent thousands getting a 20vt or G60 into their mk2 Golf doesn't make it the best way to spend your money.
The BR Motorsport or GTI Engineering motors of old would lay waste to many of these transplants on the road and cost less to do nowadays IMO.

[ibizacupra]

Originally posted by Glenn
Not quite true, the Corrado uses Passat rear suspension with bearings that give a passive rear steer effect. All except the VR6 use some variation on Mk2 Golf front suspension but the VR6 uses the Mk3 Golf GTI/VR6 'Plus' axle set-up with a 10mm wider track.
This wider track is 'dialled out' when using the standard speedlines or Solitudes (Storm) as they have ET43 offset as opposed to ET38 on the other cars.

Add in that the Corrado VR6 weighs almost as much as a Leon @ 1236kg and has chassis strengthening measures that Mk2 Golfs don't, you can see that it's not really a valid comparison.

The Mk3 20VT is as close as the factory gets to a VR6 Ibiza in handling terms and I'd be extremely surprised if anyone thinks that's a good chassis. Even modified, it's no match for a standard Corrado - I've got and have tracked both.

Tuneability, if by that you mean there's loads of places that'll take your cash and give you a piece of paper showing bigger numbers then yeah, there's plenty available for the VR6. If you mean things that will actually make a measureable improvement, then the options narrow quite a bit. The only way to get more power out of a normally-aspirated car is to increase its V.E. which means head & cams, forget fancy filters & exhausts- they'll make next to f*ck all difference for the money. Big valve head on a VR6, done properly, not just polished up to look shiny, is the best part of £1500 (exchange) and should gain ~15bhp with some loss of torque at low revs. For the money it costs, there's no point in head work that retains stock valve sizes. Good quality cams (i.e. not P*per) are ~ £800 or ~£500 if you can do the work yourself.
Then you'll need a remap to suit - reckon on anything between £250-£500. Bear in mind that the youngest ABV 2.9 engine will be getting on 8-9 years old (mileage is no indicator) unless you can find a brand-new VAG replacement (£!!) so you'll have all the bugbears that come with bits wearing out.

In short, if you want a faster car, sell yours and buy a faster car - it's a lot less aggro than a 1/2 @rsed engine transplant. If something's cheap, there's a reason for it.

What about the VSR inlet manifold?
They were suppoed to make a nice difference.

bill

[BeezerDiesel]

vsr makes a difference to low end torque and gives a slight increase in top end but is very expensive. Works best with other engine mods which pushes up price once again.

[Glenn]

Originally posted by ibizacupra
What about the VSR inlet manifold?
They were supposed to make a nice difference.

bill

I had a VW Motorsport version on my previous VR6 it makes a big difference up to 4K RPM when it switches over, after which it makes negligible difference. The delivery characteristic is similar to a bad 1.8T map where you have a huge overboost spike on the torque curve which then drops back down to normal. It gave the VR6 the bottom end grunt that it so badly needed. I didn't mention it before as most people tend to obsess over peak bhp numbers so something that'll cost the best part of £1K (even 2nd hand) but adds nothing to the 'pub-talk number' is hard to sell.

[vr6-ibiza]

It been done b4, went well, handeled shit cos of all that weight apperently.

id stick with the 2.0 8v it pushes out more than you think;)


until you have driven a vr6 ibiza how can you comment on the handling..????

[F2 Stu]

until you have driven a vr6 ibiza how can you comment on the handling..????

Good point, I cant really comment.

How about letting me have a go? I'll gladly eat my hat if it handle's no worse than mine ;)

[Maximuss]

what about a G40 engine from VW Polo??
1.3inj supercharged - went straight into my old 1400i early mk2 ibiza without a problem.

[alimac81]

I think with the money it would take to buy and install a vr6 or a g40 or 60 you could squeeze more power out of the 16v unit, or if you really feeling crazy, a turbo conversion :-o