View Full Version : Revo'd...first thoughts.. :D
cpufreak
20-02-2004, 00:08
Got up this morning 6:30, showered, shaved, and headed off to pick up Dan in Chelmsford, in order to head to Stealth Racing, to meet Richard from Revo...(MY04 ibiza TDI 130 has different ECU code to MY03, so it needed testing).
The journey didn't start well - just after filling up with fuel (bp ultimate diesel, as usualy), the A12 became stationary..another accident.
this caused a 45min delay, which resulted in us getting to stealth a bit late (just before 10am).
Richard didn't seem to mind - although he had been just about to put the E05'd ibiza on the rollers to kill time whilst waiting for us - unfortunately us arriving removed the opportunity for that to be done.
Three maps were tested on my car - the standard original one , which had put up 144.8bhp/251lbft last month (when it had done ~7000 miles), generated 149.9bhp/257.6lbft today..which I was impressed with (the car had ~9700 miles on the clock today).
The first map richard put on, scored a respectable 173.8bhp/298.2lbft of torque, which is more or less inline with the other tuned PD130's which were tested on the rollers last month...
however, the second... :DDDDDDDDDDDDD
189.1bhp, 313.0lbft of torque...
the car _flies_!
I put Dan on my insurance today, too (all mods declared), and he drove it compared to his normal Golf GTi 180...he was very impressed :)
additionally economy with this enhanced map with super cow powers doesn't seem to be adversely affected - 260miles of very spirited driving on the way home still returned 44mpg
I now understand what people mean about revo making you grin - after the test drive with the new map I went back in to chat to richard, and I couldn't stop grinning. - I was like that on the way home...the pull is amazing - I could more than keep up with an Audi S3 (from 20->motorway speeds).
I now know what to give my mum for her birthday (she has golf GT TDI 130), anyway.
I've now got that buzz I had when I first got the car...am looking for excuses to go driving places...although not right now,over 400miles today in total (took a detour via silverstone and swindon on the way back).
cpufreak
20-02-2004, 00:15
BHP : http://andy.bash.sh/revo/IMG_0054.jpg
TORQUE:
http://andy.bash.sh/revo/IMG_0057.jpg
Sounds like it was worth the hassle of getting there. Pretty good performance and keeping the economy as well. What did it cost?
cpufreak
20-02-2004, 05:08
Originally posted by Dicko
Sounds like it was worth the hassle of getting there. Pretty good performance and keeping the economy as well. What did it cost?
Definetly - it wasn't really any hassle getting there, just traffic was annoying on the way there.
From http://www.revotechnik.com/uk/ukrevo.html , revo prices are £499+vat.
and SPS1 = £150+vat
SPS1 is I guess optional - lets you switch between standard and enhanced modes - but is useful for example before you take your car in to be serviced, or lend it to a friend.
muddyboots
20-02-2004, 06:35
Blimey, impressive figures, wonder how long your clutch will hold out for ! Mine started slipping around 20k and I've "only" got 171bhp/293lbft...
Notice you too have the odd dip in the torque curve, seems to be common on chipped 130s.
driveforward
20-02-2004, 06:41
Great stuff :D
£499+VAT.... hmmm :think: That kind of money would go a long way towards a hybrid turbo though.....
Agreed about the dip in the curve.. both graphs are just like bigger versions of mine :p
orangesprout
20-02-2004, 06:50
Originally posted by muddyboots
Blimey, impressive figures, wonder how long your clutch will hold out for ! Mine started slipping around 20k and I've "only" got 171bhp/293lbft...
Notice you too have the odd dip in the torque curve, seems to be common on chipped 130s.
it's the same for my chipped 110
most noticeable in 5th gear pulling from low revs.
Pulls hard at 1900revs pauses til approx 2300 then all hell breaks loose and off you go!!!!!!!!
I think it's a safety thing so you don't bust your engine.
300lb/ft torque at barely more than tick over can't be good ??
:D
cpufreak
20-02-2004, 07:00
there were some other runs too - I think in all my car was on the rollers 6 times yesterday
heh.
it was interesting to note, that the runs after the car had had a little break to cool, were much smoother...(those are the ones on the printout).
/me starts thinking about SPT and possibly a bigger intercooler :D
and as commented on before, the bumps in the graphs aren't noticeable in the real world - it could just be an oddity with stealth's rollers...guess we'll find out at the dubsport day on 28th march :)
hrm...time to drive to docklands I think \o/
Some really good figures there. I'm impressed. Might increase as the miles clock up.
cpufreak
20-02-2004, 07:59
Originally posted by Jon TDI
Some really good figures there. I'm impressed. Might increase as the miles clock up.
I was well chuffed too..even the standard figures (149.9bhp/257lbft) were good :)
going on previous reckonning there'll be another couple of thousand miles on her before 28th March, which is the dubsport rolling road day that deejay's organising...
seeing how it gained 5bhp from 25/01 -> 19/02 (and about 2500 miles), I can but hope to get another 5bhp or so :)
I'm being quite careful in 1st and 2nd though, as I don't want to knacker the clutch.
anyway got to drive to docklands now...mmmm...I got the driving buzz again...its no longer a chore
Muddy,
Do you have a shudder from about 1500 til 2300 Rpm??? Mine does and i have had in checked and i'm running to much torque down low. It's causing the dual-mass flywheel to go into resonance. I'll have to my chip checked again. Not good for durability. :mad:
Originally posted by muddyboots
Blimey, impressive figures, wonder how long your clutch will hold out for ! Mine started slipping around 20k and I've "only" got 171bhp/293lbft...
Notice you too have the odd dip in the torque curve, seems to be common on chipped 130s.
Good point regarding the clutch.
Shock_Xe
20-02-2004, 09:08
very good, good luck,
Pitty Revo didnt put the E05 on, would of been interesting to see what he had
Keep an eye on the clutch though. Mines slipping quite a bit now @ 22k
Originally posted by Rage
Keep an eye on the clutch though. Mines slipping quite a bit now @ 22k
Ho long do you think your clutch will last?
couple of k more hopefully
Mine never slipped up to 27.5k when I sold the car.
BTW babying the throttle in 1st and 2nd is all very well, but the clutch gets the biggest workout in the highest gears.
driveforward
20-02-2004, 10:09
Originally posted by Fen
Mine never slipped up to 27.5k when I sold the car.
Mine still seems fine at 39K.. they must fit better clutches to custard cars :p
Well, yellow is a lighter colour :clown:
Can't say I baby it in any gear. I only notice the slipping at motorway speeds in high gears though. So I've taken to dropping it to 4th for motorway overtaking rather than using the imense toque in 6th to get from 70 to ???
slim_boy_fat
20-02-2004, 11:19
Originally posted by Rage
Can't say I baby it in any gear. I only notice the slipping at motorway speeds in high gears though. So I've taken to dropping it to 4th for motorway overtaking rather than using the imense toque in 6th to get from 70 to ???
What from 70 to 70 i assume!! ;)
Glad to hear you're liking it Andy!
Simon, how come you haven't changed your sig to show your new power? I'm in a picky mood today ;)
driveforward
20-02-2004, 11:34
Originally posted by toXXin
THE FUTURE'S DARK, THE FUTURE'S SOOTY!
Hmmmm :p
Glad to see the banner is finally in your sig mate! ;)
Originally posted by toXXin
Glad to hear you're liking it Andy!
Simon, how come you haven't changed your sig to show your new power? I'm in a picky mood today ;)
Now I'm interested.... What else you done Simon.:D
The are excellent numbers.
Ian, the hybrid turbo would need a custom map to really make it work well. That would add to the price of the hybrid.
I've done nothing new to it. I just haven't updated the signature to reflect the 2bhp loss I measured at the last RR ( gained 5-6 lbft of torque though ).
And I haven't updated it because. ( insert lame excuse here )
muddyboots
20-02-2004, 12:04
Agreed, clutch slip is only a problem in higher gears, when there's more resistance (via gearing) to acceleration...
Niall -> Yes I get a shudder in mine too. I generally notice it in higher gears, at a guess between 1500-2000 rpm. Mainly happens under full (or nearly-full) throttle. It seemed to get a bit worse after I added my resistor mod...
It doesn't happen very often now though, probably because subconsciously I drive to avoid it happening.
My torque curve at these revs is pretty much the same as all the other chipped 130s though, some are higher still, so I'm suprised it doesn't happen to more cars.
I was inclined to think it was more of an overfuelling problem than the clutch, don't have a technical explanation why though !
Very impressive figures indeed cpufreak see you at Dubsport then next month :D
I too have suffered from clutch slip in the past but the strange thing is it's now non existant and has been since before christmas. When it was slipping it was quite bad but I couldn't get it to slip in stock mode hence I couldn't really take it into the dealers. All is well now (fingers crossed) so I am okay about it but time will tell.
Ahh the old shudder. Mine seems to have dissappeared with time. or maybe its as MuddyBoots says . I drive to avoid it. It was something both Fen and I commented on when we first had ours chipped.
cpufreak
20-02-2004, 12:31
having driven ~100 miles, a little less enthusiastically than yesterday (roads were busy)...but I still wasn't hanging about.checked average mpg as per the computer thing (whcih whilst its probably inaccurate, it gives a guide)..anyway it was saying I'd averaged 52.3mpg, and it lookslike I'll get about 520miles from this tank.
which isn't too shabby at all.
Fen - I take your points about gearing/clutch etc - I try not to labour the engine in 5th/6th too much anyway.
Otherwise its all smooth and I'm very very happy :)
It really has put the fun back in driving.
oh, and if people want to see the difference the SeatSport suspension kit makes to handling n stuff, we can meet up at some point and I can put you on my insurance temporairly, so you can see.
only thing performance wise I'm thinking about now, is wondering if the brakes off the LCR will go behind my 17" alloys.
I think the shuddering is the dual mass flywheel just plain not liking the torque. I really think the flywheels more of a problem than the ridig disc.
I just started keeping the car at a higher RPM so as not to get the shudder. I still get slip in 4th & 5th around 2800rpm...:(
Waiting for helix to come out with something..
slim_boy_fat
20-02-2004, 12:41
Must say i never had any problmes with the clutch or a shudder, might just be your luck. I did just over 10k miles with it remapped.
Originally posted by slim_boy_fat
Must say i never had any problmes with the clutch or a shudder, might just be your luck. I did just over 10k miles with it remapped.
The shuddering only happens under half-load or more in the 1500-2000 range. Most all chipped remapped diesels have this.
do you guys with the shudder also get a lot of smoke at the same time? Maybe it is just coincidental the smoke output is highest in the same rev band as the shudder, but they always happen together which is what made me think it was an overfueling problem.
So now Revo have developped a higher output program for the 130, are they going to upgrade all us early adopters? ;)
I don't know if Revo is actually out with a new version. Some cars just produce more hp than others.
It probably during the same time frame, because that's when the turbo starts filling up and generating overboost (2K).
cpufreak
20-02-2004, 13:28
Originally posted by prc
I don't know if Revo is actually out with a new version. Some cars just produce more hp than others.
It probably during the same time frame, because that's when the turbo starts filling up and generating overboost (2K).
agreed - bear in mind mine was putting out 149.9bhp stock.
(which is 21.9bhp more than seat quote it as having).
it seems the MY04 engines have perhaps something changed in them -as prc was saying newer TDI150's that he's seen are putting out 160-170bhp stock.
or I could just be a luck barsteward
Out of interest, does anyone know if the biza's gearbox/clutch can take this sort of punishment?
slim_boy_fat
20-02-2004, 13:33
Originally posted by cpufreak
agreed - bear in mind mine was putting out 149.9bhp stock.
(which is 21.9bhp more than seat quote it as having).
it seems the MY04 engines have perhaps something changed in them -as prc was saying newer TDI150's that he's seen are putting out 160-170bhp stock.
or I could just be a luck barsteward
Sounds like you got a good one there mate. nearly 150bhp as standard.
When mine was first dynoed it had 130bhp exactly and 218lbft but it was only 3k miles old!! When i got it done at 13k miles it had 192bhp and 332lbft. Would have been interesting to get the origional map put back on to see what it was producing.
Originally posted by dangel
Out of interest, does anyone know if the biza's gearbox/clutch can take this sort of punishment?
By the sounds of it, the clutch can take it initially, then after constant hammering, it will start to slip.
cpufreak
20-02-2004, 13:42
Originally posted by slim_boy_fat
Sounds like you got a good one there mate. nearly 150bhp as standard.
When mine was first dynoed it had 130bhp exactly and 218lbft but it was only 3k miles old!! When i got it done at 13k miles it had 192bhp and 332lbft. Would have been interesting to get the origional map put back on to see what it was producing.
after 7200miles it was putting out 144.8, after 9700 it was 149.9... :)
I do try and look after it though...the last 4000 miles have only been BP Ultimate Diesel, and oil levels are checked regularly, and a good bit of my driving is A Roads an Motorways, so not too much town driving.
I only want 11 more horsepower :p, but somehow think that thats a little unrealistic
Originally posted by slim_boy_fat
Sounds like you got a good one there mate. nearly 150bhp as standard.
When mine was first dynoed it had 130bhp exactly and 218lbft but it was only 3k miles old!! When i got it done at 13k miles it had 192bhp and 332lbft. Would have been interesting to get the origional map put back on to see what it was producing.
Yeah, but 3K is nothing. I'm absolutely sure that if you had it dyno'd at 13k you'd see more (probably 5-7hp). As you mention SBF I'd be really interested in seeing results after swapping back to stock.
Originally posted by cpufreak
I only want 11 more horsepower :p, but somehow think that thats a little unrealistic
Not very unrealistic, just very expensive.
1- SPT will probably give you some. Remember the standard airbox sucks on the ibiza.
2- Need a bigger IC or better still a nice FMIC.
3- Free flow exhaust (from downpipe back)
This will get you most of the way there.
Originally posted by dave99
do you guys with the shudder also get a lot of smoke at the same time? Maybe it is just coincidental the smoke output is highest in the same rev band as the shudder, but they always happen together which is what made me think it was an overfueling problem.
So now Revo have developped a higher output program for the 130, are they going to upgrade all us early adopters? ;)
My shudder was never that bad but there wasn't any noticeable extra smoke that I could see from the driving seat.
Shudder can be avoided by cutting the fueling down low back and adding more in towards 2000 rpm.
Muddy: My local Stealer said there was nothing wrong, so i went to a guy who writes his own chip program's. He's running a LCR at 340 BHP. Engine blueprinted the works. He is Jeroen Dik.
Anyway he took my car for a run, and noticed the shudder immediately. It is caused by the delivered turbo pressure being higher than requested. When i hit 2300 rpm it levels out, but when you go for max power the difference in turbo pressure between delivered is 200 mbar less than requested causing the car to run into limp mode. He could have sorted but then i would have problems with Seat. Anyway i now know why it is caused and none of his cars have this problem, because it takes him 3 runs to tailor the chip to the car before he is happy.
Btw. his chip runs at 160 BHP and 380NM(2200 Rpm) the higher revs for torque to spare the clutch flywheel gearbox etc etc.
Taking the stealer who sold me the car to court on the 26th of march. They say they sold me a problem free car. Me thinks not.:(
Originally posted by Niall
Shudder can be avoided by cutting the fueling down low back and adding more in towards 2000 rpm.
Muddy: My local Stealer said there was nothing wrong, so i went to a guy who writes his own chip program's. He's running a LCR at 340 BHP. Engine blueprinted the works. He is Jeroen Dik.
Anyway he took my car for a run, and noticed the shudder immediately. It is caused by the delivered turbo pressure being higher than requested. When i hit 2300 rpm it levels out, but when you go for max power the difference in turbo pressure between delivered is 200 mbar less than requested causing the car to run into limp mode. He could have sorted but then i would have problems with Seat. Anyway i now know why it is caused and none of his cars have this problem, because it takes him 3 runs to tailor the chip to the car before he is happy.
Btw. his chip runs at 160 BHP and 380NM(2200 Rpm) the higher revs for torque to spare the clutch flywheel gearbox etc etc.
Taking the stealer who sold me the car to court on the 26th of march. They say they sold me a problem free car. Me thinks not.:(
I can get the car to shudder, but I don't have delivered boost being higher than requested. ?? I have various boost pressure logs and this never happens. I can't understand why your going into limp mode unless someone messed around with the turbo.
cpufreak
20-02-2004, 18:20
Originally posted by prc
Not very unrealistic, just very expensive.
1- SPT will probably give you some. Remember the standard airbox sucks on the ibiza.
2- Need a bigger IC or better still a nice FMIC.
3- Free flow exhaust (from downpipe back)
This will get you most of the way there.
surely if the standard airbox sucked (well) on the ibiza, I wouldn't need SPT :P
just wondering how many more ponies willl appear as the miles pile on (as of this moment in time it has 10163 on the clock) - ie by ~15000 miles (which is prolly what It'll be close to by 28th March, when Dubsport rrday is happening), will I have 195bhp...I guess I'll have to wait and see. :)
but yeah, I know coolings an issue- the second run with the 'best' map on, was very spikey due to heatsoak...will have to see what to do about that.
I've beenmaking enquires about exhausts, will have to wait and see.
Originally posted by cpufreak
surely if the standard airbox sucked (well) on the ibiza, I wouldn't need SPT :P
just wondering how many more ponies willl appear as the miles pile on (as of this moment in time it has 10163 on the clock) - ie by ~15000 miles (which is prolly what It'll be close to by 28th March, when Dubsport rrday is happening), will I have 195bhp...I guess I'll have to wait and see. :)
but yeah, I know coolings an issue- the second run with the 'best' map on, was very spikey due to heatsoak...will have to see what to do about that.
I've beenmaking enquires about exhausts, will have to wait and see.
Serious dought you'll be able to that much of an increase. Since your at 10K, I seriously dought you'll be able to see more than 1-2 extra horses.
The OE box on the ibiza is way to small. If you can get more cold air in you will see a big decrease in spool up times. Even on the bigger OE boxes like mine SPT does wonders.
Same deal with the exhaust. I've done a couple of 130's (golf's) with CAT back straight tubing 58 & 60mm. Good results & low noise.
slim_boy_fat
20-02-2004, 19:20
Originally posted by cpufreak
surely if the standard airbox sucked (well) on the ibiza, I wouldn't need SPT :P
just wondering how many more ponies willl appear as the miles pile on (as of this moment in time it has 10163 on the clock) - ie by ~15000 miles (which is prolly what It'll be close to by 28th March, when Dubsport rrday is happening), will I have 195bhp...I guess I'll have to wait and see. :)
but yeah, I know coolings an issue- the second run with the 'best' map on, was very spikey due to heatsoak...will have to see what to do about that.
I've beenmaking enquires about exhausts, will have to wait and see.
Keep driving it once its passed 300,000miles it might have 900bhp and 2000lbft!! ;)
Originally posted by slim_boy_fat
Keep driving it once its passed 300,000miles it might have 900bhp and 2000lbft!! ;)
:laff: I liked that one big time!
Nice one.
cpufreak
20-02-2004, 22:48
Originally posted by slim_boy_fat
Keep driving it once its passed 300,000miles it might have 900bhp and 2000lbft!! ;)
PMSL :]
I'll find a way to make this soot maker quicker than your porker...just you wait :P
Paulo,
Mine's putting out to much boost low down and running to little up top. When you get a difference of more than 150 mbar the car will go into limp mode. That is what is happening. The turbo is spinning to fast through the rev range and is shutting down at top rev's because of the difference.
slim_boy_fat
21-02-2004, 07:46
Originally posted by cpufreak
PMSL :]
I'll find a way to make this soot maker quicker than your porker...just you wait :P
First you need to get it as powerful as my old TDI sport then you can try and get it up to the Porker ;)
Originally posted by Niall
Paulo,
Mine's putting out to much boost low down and running to little up top. When you get a difference of more than 150 mbar the car will go into limp mode. That is what is happening. The turbo is spinning to fast through the rev range and is shutting down at top rev's because of the difference.
Yes I understand. What I meant by the other post was that I can't believe that the ABT chip would do this, so there must be something else wrong.
Paulo,
Jeroen Dik said, he has seen it on more 130 TDI Ibiza's. The turbo is not the same on all 130 Ibiza's.
One chip does not fit all.
Niall
muddyboots
22-02-2004, 08:05
Originally posted by Niall
Paulo,
Jeroen Dik said, he has seen it on more 130 TDI Ibiza's. The turbo is not the same on all 130 Ibiza's.
One chip does not fit all.
Niall
When I bought my Ibiza, with the ABT chip, I think ABT only listed applications for the Audi A3 130, not for the Ibiza. So maybe there are some differences between the two cars, and the chip was tailored to the A3 ? After all, I think the Ibiza has higher gear ratios for the upper gears, perhaps with the lower ratios the shudder problem isn't so apparent in the A3 :confused:
The shudder will most likely be worse on the heavier A3.