View Full Version : Gains Of Samco Pipes/Hoses
Hello all , I'm not that clever with engine bits a bobs but could someone explaine to me how Samco Hoses/pipes actually benefit our cars, Sorry to sound thick but aren't they just pipes to direct what ever down them from one end to the other :confused: because a few of you have changed them and i must admit they do look good. And depending on which one you change are there any engine gains on performance ?
max_torque
19-03-2004, 07:59
could someone explaine to me how Samco Hoses/pipes actually benefit our cars
Well, in most cases they don't!
If you have a very highly tuned engine, running high boost (which causes high post compressor temperatures) it is possible that you will see failures within the std hoses, as the OEM will have only tested these with an engine of std performance. Also if you change the system in any way, say fit a FMIC, then you will probably find that the std hoses won't fit, so getting some samco or equivalent hoses is the only way to go.
The argument that the hoses give more performance is rubbish however, as the pressure loss across the hoses is so small as std, even if you had an aftermarket hose with no pressure loss (impossible) it wouldn't make any difference you can feel / measure. Also people claim that the stiffer aftermarket hoses give a faster throttle response, as they expand less, which is also crap, as 1) to expand they must already be under boost conditions, and 2) Unless they blow up to the size of a hot air balloon the volume of boost air contained within them is so small compared say to 1.8 litres of engine spinning at 3000rpm just after them!
What no one mentions is the downside of Samco hoses, they are primarily as silicone boost hose, and unfortunately silicone is a poison as far as lambda sensors and catalysts are concerned. On Focus RS we spent a long time sourcing non silicone boost hoses to avoid damaging the cat / lambda sensor. ( ok this is a lond term degredation (say 50,000+ miles))
Also silicone hoses are quite soft, and it is critcial not to over tighten the hose clamps, ideally use the clamps with the built in tension limiters to avoid damage.
To sum up, aftermarket hoses look nice, but thats about it! (unless you really are running a 1.5+bar boost monster!) ;)
LEO LION R
19-03-2004, 08:13
Sounds like a very experienced view point, i'm not convinced they make no difference, however i do also believe that the difference they make is fairly small and probably unrecognisable to a normal driver in everyday use.
The key to it is that they are used widely in performance / raced cars, of which there are some example on the road as well.. It is this point which it is better understood, unless you are making use of the cars power and ar elooking to shave tenths or thousands of a second of times, and want a high performance part then its almost a waste of time/money to fit them.
Don't get me wrong, they are nice to look at, they are definately more rigid (especially when at temp) than the stock ones. I hadn't ever read or heard of the silicon being a problem (long term or not) so i'm guessing it's either just been discovered or it's going to affect the sensors as much as its going to improve daily performance.
This of course is just my opinion, and in no way is a defining statement.
The 1.8T with a KO4 turbo has a max boost of about 1.55bar anyway, so if max_torque's comments are 100% true then it may be that the gains are of no real world benefit. I fitted a Samco turbo inlet pipe and without having put in on a rolling road in back to back tests conditions i am unaware of any performance gains, it have changed the note of the turbo spinning up slightly though 9it may be the air is getting to the turbo with less turbulance as the stocj one is very ribbed and a rough wall lining, whereas the samco one is smooth as a babys bottom and is perhaps allowing a better flow of air.
Who knows, but i had to fit it to find out for myself , and am sglad i have because even if its all in my mind i still think its made a slight (emphasise slight) difference.
:cheers:
Ok i've just been educated on Samco Hoses nice reading thanks for that
:thumbup:
CupraR-Rog
19-03-2004, 09:43
I have the Samco TIP & upper IC hoses installed...
The IC hoses seem to stay cooler than the OE ones... whether they are cooler inside though is a different matter...
Fitting the TIP seems to have reduced the turbo lag on my car... and has been said, the note of the turbo has also changed.
Also, when taking off my OE TIP, depite the car being only 6 months old with 10,000 miles on the clock, there were some nice splite forming where it attaches to the turbo... will have to check the rest of the hose to see if there are any more!!
LEO LION R
19-03-2004, 09:59
there were some nice splite forming where it attaches to the turbo
Could you elaborate please, i dont know what you mean by 'splite', maybe you mean split, in which case that is very alarming, i'll check mine tonight (its hiding in the pile of standard stuff ;) as it's 18 months old, it more than likely your damaged one is a one off.
:cheers:
CupraR-Rog
19-03-2004, 10:40
there were some nice splite forming where it attaches to the turbo
Could you elaborate please, i dont know what you mean by 'splite', maybe you mean split, in which case that is very alarming, i'll check mine tonight (its hiding in the pile of standard stuff ;) as it's 18 months old, it more than likely your damaged one is a one off.
:cheers:
D'OH!!
Yes, SPLIT
Could well be a 1-off - badly handles on the priduction line or something... alarming none the less!!
Will be used as a weapon to any SEAT dealer who wants to have a go at me about warranty issues in the futire... "well, if you think I was going to replace this lousy part with another one... "
ibizacupra
19-03-2004, 11:22
Well, in most cases they don't!
To sum up, aftermarket hoses look nice, but thats about it! (unless you really are running a 1.5+bar boost monster!) ;)
:rolleyes: :D [B)]
My only std hose on the Golf continually pops off lately... soft, crappy rubber hose which baloons up under heat/pressure.
Samco Hoses are typically larger bore where some of the factory hoses are smaller diameter until the end connections where they increase in ID/OD.
................. and they look good :cheers:
Samco Hoses are typically larger bore where some of the factory hoses are smaller diameter until the end connections where they increase in ID/OD.
................. and they look good :cheers:
In your opinion then Bill does perfomance change at all ?
bigger hoses also would increase lag as there is a larger volume to fill.
CupraR-Rog
19-03-2004, 18:33
bigger hoses also would increase lag as there is a larger volume to fill.
Feels to me as if my lag is reduced... and the car certainly pulls better at the higher revs... well, it seems to anyway (no dyno plots yet!)
ibizacupra
22-03-2004, 08:00
bigger hoses also would increase lag as there is a larger volume to fill.
LMAO like you could tell the difference!
:rolleyes: :roflmao:
ibizacupra
22-03-2004, 08:02
In your opinion then Bill does perfomance change at all ?
I would rather a dimensionally stable hose, rather than one which baloons and is greatly affected by heat. In performance terms I could'nt say any gains, nor losses, but less energy will be spent inflating hoses, and going into the engine directly.
I'd go silicon hoses.
LMAO like you could tell the difference!
:rolleyes: :roflmao:
every milli-second counts :bleh:
ibizacupra
22-03-2004, 11:40
every milli-second counts :bleh:
:worship: :clap:
I was wondering if anyone ever thought of using stainless steel or aluminum tubing to replace most of the plastic and rubber tubing??
I've seen quite a few high boosting cars replacing as much as possible for stainless steel and using some samco curved bits... Would this be beneficial?
I'll be running high boost soon, and was thinking of upgrading..
Any ideas?
I was wondering if anyone ever thought of using stainless steel or aluminum tubing to replace most of the plastic and rubber tubing??
I've seen quite a few high boosting cars replacing as much as possible for stainless steel and using some samco curved bits... Would this be beneficial?
I'll be running high boost soon, and was thinking of upgrading..
Any ideas?
few punto owners have done this. for one thing there is no point going above your TB size.
few punto owners have done this. for one thing there is no point going above your TB size.
I was wondering because I'll be running 1.8bar of constant boost soon..besides the OE rubber tubes seem to be streaching too much..
ibizacupra
26-03-2004, 16:45
Think Silicon hose then.... 1.8bar...
you sooties is crazy... :p