F.a.o Leo

[vern]

have you had the v tune done yet mate? let me know the results here

vern :thumbup:

[LEO LION R]

have you had the v tune done yet mate? let me know the results here

vern :thumbup:

Results are - no v-tune played with :( jim's waiting for the revised version, and didn't want to risk messing with the current version.

Currently Matt has been emailed the ecu explorer results and will analyse them when he gets some time over the next few weeks.

So by the next visit to star i should be able to try v-tune.

:cheers:

[LEO LION R]

The history of mne with APR is;

V1 made 257bhp @ 5570rpm & 267lbft @ 4310rpm (flat spot)
V2 made 253bhp @ 5360rpm & 271lbft @ 4380rpm (no flat spot)
V2 + Milltek/TIP made 256bhp @ 5310rpm & 276lbft @ 4310rpm

Very consistant on Jim's rollers, and most importantly the V1 had the torque used to be about 225lbft from 3500-5500rpm on , but now with V2+ Milltek/TIP it is 255+lbft from 3000-5500rpm.

This imho is much more important than just getting high numbers for attention, the boost holds well and the torque curve is almost flat accross the range 3000-5500rpm whixh makes it very drivable even in the wet.

:cheers:

[LEO LION R]

Ooh and finally whilst i remeber (block it from my memory) slim managed to put a damper on it by getting 308bhp & 348lbft at 16psi . . grrrr..... the graph looked even better than mine :(

Still he couldn't pull away more than 5 lengths

:cheers:

[vern]

The history of mne with APR is;

V1 made 257bhp @ 5570rpm & 267lbft @ 4310rpm (flat spot)
V2 made 253bhp @ 5360rpm & 271lbft @ 4380rpm (no flat spot)
V2 + Milltek/TIP made 256bhp @ 5310rpm & 276lbft @ 4310rpm

Very consistant on Jim's rollers, and most importantly the V1 had the torque used to be about 225lbft from 3500-5500rpm on , but now with V2+ Milltek/TIP it is 255+lbft from 3000-5500rpm.

This imho is much more important than just getting high numbers for attention, the boost holds well and the torque curve is almost flat accross the range 3000-5500rpm whixh makes it very drivable even in the wet.

:cheers:
Cheers leo remember i am still on V1 as never got the beta file lol
yeah and totally agree,headline figs usless if it drops like a stone mate,the miltek and tip have brought the torque in earlier and it holds longer,thats exactly what u want in a FWD road car :thumbup:

whats also nice to see is how consistant jims runs are :) i assume all the figs leo are the din 70020 ones


hhhmmm matt eh? then that 2 weeks will become 4 weeks then :rolleyes:

any chance u could do an overlay leo,on graphs i am amazed @ 255+lbft from 3k>compared with just 225lbft and from 3.5k> the miltek and tip certainly worth it then leo on closer inspection,as i dont believe the V2 code could improve it to those figs alone without the tip/zorst

this is why we need grapphs as headline figs tell us nowt :censored:

keep up the logs and work leo :thumbup:

vern

[vern]

Ooh and finally whilst i remeber (block it from my memory) slim managed to put a damper on it by getting 308bhp & 348lbft at 16psi . . grrrr..... the graph looked even better than mine :(

Still he couldn't pull away more than 5 lengths

:cheers:
btw SBF those figs are good ya pleased then?are u sure on 5 car lengths leo?,not artics lol

vern :bleh:

[LEO LION R]

maybe his clutch is a little old now ;) :D it probably wasn't even that much distance, but knowing him he'll come up with something like " i didn't even know we were racing " :rolleyes:

His car really only comes into its own on speeds over 120 which i don't like doing for obvious reasons - even on long straight empty roads.

The scan will have to wait till i'm back at work (scanner bust at home) and its a poor print this time (printer running out of ink - jim) but i'll do the 3 of the them.

STD made 230bhp @ 6180rpm & 219lbft @ 3960rpm
V1 made 257bhp @ 5570rpm & 267lbft @ 4310rpm (flat spot)
V2 made 253bhp @ 5360rpm & 271lbft @ 4380rpm (no flat spot)
V2+ made 256bhp @ 5310rpm & 276lbft @ 4310rpm

STD = 168bhp @ wheels 35 degrees max intake temp / 22 degress ambient
V1 = 185bhp @ wheels 53 degrees max intake temp / 17 degress ambient
V2 = 185bhp @ wheels 40degrees max intake temp / 7 degress ambient
V2+ = 205bhp @ wheels 45 degrees max intake temp / 13 degress ambient

So it appears that although there is no great power increase from the Milltek / TIP there is however an increase with power at wheels from them.

:cheers:

[vern]

maybe his clutch is a little old now ;) :D it probably wasn't even that much distance, but knowing him he'll come up with something like " i didn't even know we were racing " :rolleyes:

His car really only comes into its own on speeds over 120 which i don't like doing for obvious reasons - even on long straight empty roads.

The scan will have to wait till i'm back at work (scanner bust at home) and its a poor print this time (printer running out of ink - jim) but i'll do the 3 of the them.

STD made 230bhp @ 6180rpm & 219lbft @ 3960rpm
V1 made 257bhp @ 5570rpm & 267lbft @ 4310rpm (flat spot)
V2 made 253bhp @ 5360rpm & 271lbft @ 4380rpm (no flat spot)
V2+ made 256bhp @ 5310rpm & 276lbft @ 4310rpm

STD = 168bhp @ wheels 35 degrees max intake temp / 22 degress ambient
V1 = 185bhp @ wheels 53 degrees max intake temp / 17 degress ambient
V2 = 185bhp @ wheels 40degrees max intake temp / 7 degress ambient
V2+ = 205bhp @ wheels 45 degrees max intake temp / 13 degress ambient

So it appears that although there is no great power increase from the Milltek / TIP there is however an increase with power at wheels from them.

:cheers:

yeah great read leo i'm sad :roflmao:

just curious leo,about v2+ why no increase in crank bhp,although healthy gains @ wheels,surley same transmission losses,any thoughts,not having a go just curious thats all ;)

vern

[LEO LION R]

Unfortunately this is one area where the figures can vary widely on day to day (tyre pressures etc) but given that all previous runs (6) are very consistant at star then i can only assume that the Milltek with its reduced back pressure is maybe allowing the car to run down easier and giving a result of higher power at wheels.

Remember that even when the Milltek came out for the LCR it was always commented that it may not give the normal gains that other cars/engines get simply because the LCR standard exhaust is so well designed anyway. I was sceptical after a while of getting any more than 5-10bhp and thought that torque may even drop due to less back pressure. What it does do very well is make the car 100% more responsive, just look at comments from other like Zboyd / platinum etc. they all say the same, it transforms the power delivery to almost iradicate any lag, which then gives the feeling of much quicker acceperation in daily driving (not timed runs).

I think the problem on the rollers starts to become more of an issue as well when the cars start using a higher boost, and its hard for the rollers to replicake this as a real situation so readings may not be as high as expected. Wwhen the car was on the rollers ecu exlorer logeed the boost at 1.25bar max and on the road it logged it as requesting 1.385bar max and was getting it because of the load.

:cheers:

[vern]

yeah gotta be somthing along those lines mate,more than that i dunno :confused: what i do is that everyone who has one rates the spool up response,would consider one if
A - did not have to build my new double garage :p
B- have to wed gemma,
thats 25k gone then
notice how i got the priorities right,hope she dont see this lol :-o

would love a jabba stage 3 or even push it further,as i luv the car,but 10 years living together,and engauaged for 3 years summats got to give :hide:

vern

[LEO LION R]

All it does is take your budget to 30k instead of 25k :D ;)

[vern]

All it does is take your budget to 30k instead of 25k :D ;)
PMSL leo

yeah still gotta find 10k of the 25k though leo :blink: but a wedding takes a year to plan right?????????? :roflmao: hehehe garage first

vern

[slim_boy_fat]

His car really only comes into its own on speeds over 120 which i don't like doing for obvious reasons - even on long straight empty roads.


:cheers:

Thats exactly the problem, by the time i have pulled 5 lengths I am at 120+ and having to slow down. Lets got to Germany for some real fun. We can do some autobahns on the way to the ring, you promised me you would spank my Porsche round the ring. I have got to give you the chance.

p.s. Wheres the CD, would realy like it so i can email the guy who done the chips. :cheers:

p.p.s. You graph looked pretty good too, wish i could have seen that guys face in the car we passed either side of him of that bend on to the m-way at ***mph :redface:

[LEO LION R]

Thats exactly the problem, by the time i have pulled 5 lengths I am at 120+ and having to slow down. Lets got to Germany for some real fun. We can do some autobahns on the way to the ring, you promised me you would spank my Porsche round the ring. I have got to give you the chance.

p.s. Wheres the CD, would realy like it so i can email the guy who done the chips. :cheers:

p.p.s. You graph looked pretty good too, wish i could have seen that guys face in the car we passed either side of him of that bend on to the m-way at ***mph :redface:

Well if your paying for the trip then i'll come along and do just that :D

P.S. CDRW was not working yesterday and i now have no CDs left after wasting 4 off them :(

P.P.S. I wasn't there , it wasn't me - you can't prove a thing, i preferd the 90degree lefter where i overtook you on the outside :D :D :D

:whistle:

:cheers:

[slim_boy_fat]

Well if your paying for the trip then i'll come along and do just that :D

P.S. CDRW was not working yesterday and i now have no CDs left after wasting 4 off them :(

P.P.S. I wasn't there , it wasn't me - you can't prove a thing, i preferd the 90degree lefter where i overtook you on the outside :D :D :D

:whistle:

:cheers:

How about dropping down with your camera and software and downloading the clips?

[LEO LION R]

Heading out for the day now - West unfortunately, i'll get it sorted tomorrow and drop it off on way home. - Promise :thumbup:

Car pics session next sunday - defo, saturdays gonna be the HD/wax day for sure, not a cloud in the sky.

:cheers:

[LEO LION R]

Here you go vern, this is all 3 RR torque graph info session with APR (V1 v V2 v V2++ Torque.JPG) ;

V1 (which you have)

V2 which you've held of getting in case V3 comes out (and it also has a lower top figure, but notice that it starts earlier and holds longer and no flat spot)

V2++ which includes the Milltek and TIP

I've also overlayed the V2 with V2++ (V2 v V2++.JPG) as they share the same figures on the graphs for power and torque, whereas the V1 is on a different scale and makes it complicated overlaying all info at once.

:cheers:

P.S. apologies for the quality, but jim laminated the last on V2++ and it was faint enough to start with.

[slim_boy_fat]

Lanimated, whats that all about... @rse in the pain!! :blink:

[LEO LION R]

Dunno it's the first one he's done that with, maybe fed up with folk posting them on here ;) :D

:cheers:

[slim_boy_fat]

Dunno it's the first one he's done that with, maybe fed up with folk posting them on here ;) :D

:cheers:

Thats what i was thinking..

[LEO LION R]

great minds - eh ! ;) :D

It's quite clear from the graphs compared where the extra torque is arriving, it makes for much more lazy driving if you want to.

[vern]

great minds - eh ! ;) :D

It's quite clear from the graphs compared where the extra torque is arriving, it makes for much more lazy driving if you want to.
LEO

that's just kin brill mate,just what i wanted,deffo loads more torque earlier thats what i want,and rid of the v slight flat spot on v1,is matt working on v3 then with the real time logs off your lcr,in conjuntion with ecu explorer???????????? :blink: how much data did jim get with the lappy leo???? loads?

vern

[LEO LION R]

LEO

that's just kin brill mate,just what i wanted,deffo loads more torque earlier thats what i want,and rid of the v slight flat spot on v1,is matt working on v3 then with the real time logs off your lcr,in conjuntion with ecu explorer???????????? :blink: how much data did jim get with the lappy leo???? loads?

vern


LOL

LOADS

It logs everything bar the power/torque at present, but that is being updated as we type - so it will log all this info as well, only even more acurately than VAG-COM does right now.

Not sure what Matt will do with it tbh, he's defo going to look at the results and check for table corrections that can be made to smothen it out even more, he'll also no doubt check through the requests and actual figures for the timing fueling temp corrections etc, if you could see it you would realise how advanced the information is on it and how easy it is to check through it all acurately - very impressive software and only going to get better with developments.

At the end of the day he may just say okay that's as good as we can get with the code with a very safe tolerance for the engine/turbo and still be drivable, on the other hand they may decide they can offer a mor eradical programme for customers to switch between on mad dry days more akin to revo SPS3 high settings ? i don't know, i do know Matt is still up to his neck in tables and figures for a lot of other cars too.

Realistically all that i'd prefer from the map is to get a fraction more power, but have the ability for it to go past 6000rpm at peak power, so that needs the boost to hold longer which in turn needs the cooling to be improved.

Rember what i said earlier, on the rolling road it was peaking at 1.25bar, on the road it peaked at 1.385bar

:cheers:

[vern]

Thanx for the reply,leo i will leave it a few days then start to bug matt for an answer lol,all the data as got to be for somthing,if the requests can be more accuratley matched to the actual this will make ie very smooth and drivable,which it is now,just done 350 miles in 2 days round the lake district car/ apr prog was faultless,and i am convinced it's still getting faster lol,@ 9.3k now,V3 i feel will be the best of both worlds.........

vern

[LEO LION R]

Thanx for the reply,leo i will leave it a few days then start to bug matt for an answer lol,all the data as got to be for somthing,if the requests can be more accuratley matched to the actual this will make ie very smooth and drivable,which it is now,just done 350 miles in 2 days round the lake district car/ apr prog was faultless,and i am convinced it's still getting faster lol,@ 9.3k now,V3 i feel will be the best of both worlds.........

vern

yes if they can be answered then wooppeeeee, but heat is the main issue as always with the 1.8T as it gets hotter it inddually records the timing advance adjustments being made by the ecu on each cylinder/plug - awesome software - just need to get a price for it now.

Well if your going to chase up Matt then don't foget to ask about the revised version of v-tune too, and is it still free ?

:cheers:

[slim_boy_fat]

yes if they can be answered then wooppeeeee, but heat is the main issue as always with the 1.8T as it gets hotter it inddually records the timing advance adjustments being made by the ecu on each cylinder/plug - awesome software - just need to get a price for it now.

Well if your going to chase up Matt then don't foget to ask about the revised version of v-tune too, and is it still free ?

:cheers:

Wasnt it retarding the ignition? :confused:

Awesome ECU..

[LEO LION R]

Wasnt it retarding the ignition? :confused:

Awesome ECU..


Yes you are correctamundo :D

I knew youd be on hand to spot the obvious out :rolleyes: ;)

Awesome technology these days, shame it aint on your 14year old mota :(

[slim_boy_fat]

Yes you are correctamundo :D

I knew youd be on hand to spot the obvious out :rolleyes: ;)

Awesome technology these days, shame it aint on your 14year old mota :(

Well it can, i just dont have the bag of sand right now!!!! :(

But never mind i will consol myself with 348lbft and counting, wonder what it will produce with 18psi. :-o 400lbft :-o :drool:

[LEO LION R]

clutchsliptastic :(

[slim_boy_fat]

clutchsliptastic :(


Standard clutch can take 450bhp 400lbft easy, these things were made to last... Mind mine is now 14years old and has done 85kmiles!!! Mmmm better start saving. £800 for a new clutch, fitted, by an independant. £1800 by the dealler. Ouch!!!

[vern]

yes if they can be answered then wooppeeeee, but heat is the main issue as always with the 1.8T as it gets hotter it inddually records the timing advance adjustments being made by the ecu on each cylinder/plug - awesome software - just need to get a price for it now.

Well if your going to chase up Matt then don't foget to ask about the revised version of v-tune too, and is it still free ?

:cheers:

yeah so ask as follows leo............

when we getting V3? :bleh:
v tune what mods apr made is it still free to us on dpp
owt to add leo???????

vern

btw awesome apr is no longer @ awesome,he had a black lcr running this setup so can't find owt else out lol,check his posts about 14 iirc leo

[slim_boy_fat]

Well done an excel job on the RR graph

[LEO LION R]

See the EVO is being rebranded 260 300 320 340 :D

[vern]

See the EVO is being rebranded 260 300 320 340 :D
full road test leo in this weeks autocar of the the 260@£23,999 :drool:

vern

[LEO LION R]

Yeah and they recon its still better than the STi8 :D

Seems to be with de-tuning the engine they are able to have a much wider spread of torque as youd expect, but it still has a lot of pace and traction.

:cheers:

[slim_boy_fat]

Yeah and they recon its still better than the STi8 :D

Seems to be with de-tuning the engine they are able to have a much wider spread of torque as youd expect, but it still has a lot of pace and traction.

:cheers:

I see a plan hatching, you just have to stop spending soo much money... :thumbup:

[vibrio]

your running seriously rich topend. you should be able to get a bit more by leaning it out a bit. more boost or less petrol lol

[slim_boy_fat]

your running seriously rich topend. you should be able to get a bit more by leaning it out a bit. more boost or less petrol lol

Yes the chip is set for about 18psi max boost, and as you can see from the plot i am holding nothing like that, prob on the raod will add a coupe of psi, but i can turn the boost up a fair wee bit. Hence why i want to get o a dyno that can plot the A/F on the same graph. The guy who does the mapping will do me a custom chip, but i have asked him to hold off till i get a new wastegate and do some more runs on the dyno.

To be honest i might get about 380lbft max torque and 350bhp at the very most..Still those aint to bad eh... ;) After that i need a new intake kit, injectors and turbo. If i go down that route for about £3500 i can get about 450bhp and 500lbft. But i doubt i wil ever go that far.(only if Leo gets himself an Evo ;) )

[vibrio]

Yes the chip is set for about 18psi max boost, and as you can see from the plot i am holding nothing like that, prob on the raod will add a coupe of psi, but i can turn the boost up a fair wee bit. Hence why i want to get o a dyno that can plot the A/F on the same graph. The guy who does the mapping will do me a custom chip, but i have asked him to hold off till i get a new wastegate and do some more runs on the dyno.

To be honest i might get about 380lbft max torque and 350bhp at the very most..Still those aint to bad eh... ;) After that i need a new intake kit, injectors and turbo. If i go down that route for about £3500 i can get about 450bhp and 500lbft. But i doubt i wil ever go that far.(only if Leo gets himself an Evo ;) )


can you adjust your fuel pressure or is it set?

[slim_boy_fat]

can you adjust your fuel pressure or is it set?


The fuel presure regulator is set at 3.0Bar, its the current injectors that are the real stumbling block to getting more power as they are very close to running 100% duty right now. a set of 55lb injectors would get things back to running 65% right now with the potential for about 400bhp (along with the other stuff)

[vibrio]

you need more boost. 10.5 AFR is seriously rich.

[slim_boy_fat]

you need more boost. 10.5 AFR is seriously rich.

Not to worry new wastegate on its way, tial 38mm, will be able to hold 18psi for lots of power..... :D :thumbup:
Hence the trip to the rollers again in a few weeks..

[LEO LION R]

you got the wastegate yet or arranged a date on rollers yet ?


:cheers: