View Full Version : Is the Ibiza Living in the vRS Shadow?
christdi
20-04-2004, 02:10
I spend a lot of time on some other car forums on the net and I have noticed lately that on all these forums, the Fabia vRS has become very well known and respected. In its short existance it seems to have become better known than the Ibiza 130. It also seems to get a lot more media coverage than the Ibiza, one example of this was this weeks 5th Gear where they tested the vRS times around a track against a Mini Cooper (vRS was faster by the way :D ).
Is this just down to the fact that it is a new car, is it better marketing by Skoda, or is the vRS just a better car? I personally would have the Ibiza over the vRS every time (although I think the vRS is a great car) but I cant help feeling that the Ibiza is maybe loosing out to the Fabia, anyone else agree?
Im sure the limelight will switch back to SEAT when they launch the Ibiza Cupra :D
The Ibiza/SEAT certainly lost a customer in me.
I was ready to buy one and then switched to the Fabia. Not only because its cheaper but it looks more 'sporty' compared to the rest of the Fabia line up. Where as the Ibiza just looks like any other.
Plus the dealer network is sooo much better, and Skoda actually wanted to sell me a car. SEAT didnt seem all that bothered.
I've said this before - I would never buy another Ibiza 130 now the vRS is out.
I think Skoda has a kind of 'in the know' cool about the badge in a way that the people still lusting after TTs and Imprezas don't understand. SEAT is just SEAT - probably because their marketing has been diabolical and is only just about OK now they have nevr had a image in most people's eyes. Skoda on the other hand used a strong negative image to their advantage with some clever ads.
Also look at the cars. Techie's black vRS looks the business. It all joins up and looks sooooo right. Look then at one of the Ibiza's. Tom's (toXXin) looks the most cohesive IMO with its TT rims, but he says the offset makes it drive like a pig. Of the ones that drive right then maybe Simon (Rage) has one of the better looking ones, but they still look wrong somehow - too rounded and cuddly and they never take their wheels properly.
Also the Fabia is cheaper isn't it? Oh and Skoda dealers don't have a reputation nearly as low as SEAT dealers (to be fair that was not my experience of SEAT I have to say, SMC Exeter were pretty good).
Just IMO, but there's a start.
[Edit] Note that I Posted the above before I saw Techie's post, so we agree independently on 2 crucial points
driveforward
20-04-2004, 08:19
Maybe this should be re-titled to "Is SEAT living in Skoda's Shadow?"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3641001.stm
Roll on the Cupra, this should redress the balance back towards the Ibiza. I'm currently considering changing the Leon for TDI and the Ibiza Cupra is top of the list, but I must admit the vRS is a close second.
driveforward
20-04-2004, 08:37
See the Sooooooooooooooooooooooot!
cpufreak
20-04-2004, 08:40
I guess it depends...
The vRS badge indicates its the sportiest Skoda, which to me indicates that perhaps its only fair to compare it to the equivalent Seat with the sportiest badge - i.e. the Cupra, or even the FR
Unfortunately with the Ibiza's/Fabia's there'l be a large price disparity between the two, but what I'm trying to say is, critizing the Ibiza Sport because it doesn't have the agressive looks of the Fabia vRS isn't really fair, as the Sport isn't the sportiest Ibiza - so perhaps is aimed at a slightly different buyer - someone who wants a quick car, but who doesn't want to attract attention.
ibizacupra
20-04-2004, 11:50
Ibiza is not pushed as sporty is it? unless I missed it..
vRS is pushed as sporty like Octy is....
Branding and marketting differences I guess more than actual product.
I personally prefer the Ibiza looks wise, albeit its bland (as is FR), but each to their own.
Mod them tastefully like Techie has done to his, and you can make a nice motor.
SEAT marketting is weaker than Skoda's it seems
Its obvious most of SEAT's marketing clout has gone into the motor-racing at present. SEAT UK are at last figures one of the strongest sectors in Europe for SEAT as a company, and are still relitively one of the fastest growing brands in the UK, increasing their market share again this year.
The products are obviously appealing to people, remembering not everyone is in the market for Cupras and even Sport 130's.
Being frank they are obviously a victim of their successes at present, Skoda are now benefitting the same way SEAT did in the late 90s from the VAG involvement, and at present small independant dealers are giving super service, but though they are becoming hugely popular they still carry the stigma that SEAT did with FIAT and to some point still do.
What concerns me is will Skoda keep their high levels of service and support when it begins to snowball for them.
The products are great from SEAT, but at the moment let down by poor aftersales service, which they really need to start addressing sooner rather than later for sure.
I know this is my home town, but as an example and you may see a simillar story where you live, obviously comment on this if you agree or disagree.
Stockport has no main SEAT dealer, yet i see many SEAT's on the road round here, most of them are serviced by Bells in Hyde which comes under Tameside and is always too busy to cope. 2-3 week waiting list most of the time.
Lookers Manchester a big group in Old Trafford, but again busy and so far from Stockport it makes it nigh on impossible to get to for servicing in the morning or to collect in the evening without taking time off work.
David Cooks Oldham, again a fair distance away, but a small independant, also very busy, and not really able to cope with the demands.
A big town like Stockport needs a dedicated dealer, i think this would go some ways to improve the service of other dealerships in the area, which are somewhat poor at present, mainly due to how busy they have become.
I know this has gone a bit off topic, but regardless of car styling, for which id agree to a point, i do like the vRS, but i dont dislike the Mk4 Ibiza either, Skoda probably have the better product in terms of the full package though at present.
All im wondering is once Skoda get to the heady sales figures of SEAT will they start to flag off too in customer support? I hope not, and its something Skoda can address now and be prepared for it.
SEAT are in the mess now and need to make some big moves to improve its position, and bring its aftersales support upto the same levels as its products.
Ibiza is not pushed as sporty is it?
Well it is listed as the Ibiza 'Sport' 130 Tdi.
I think the main assets that the skoda Fabia vRS has on the seat sport TDI is it looks more sporty, Is in rallying well sort of. Is known for reliability, has great aftersales, and to me feels a more solid and better quality car compared to the sport TDI. but the main advantage is its far cheaper. £12K for a sporty model around 11K if you look around hard enough its hard to beat
ibizacupra
21-04-2004, 08:01
Well it is listed as the Ibiza 'Sport' 130 Tdi.
maybe they should call it "deportivo" (courtesy of altavista babelfish)
Ibiza 'Deportivo' 130TDi
:D
Arn't Seat and Audio meant to be the sport side of VAG now, and Skoda and VW the luxury side? Not much sign of any changes in this direction though as far as I can see.
Personally I prefer the Mk3 to the Mk4, but thats just my opinion.
Ben
christdi
21-04-2004, 16:01
I think SEAT are going to be going down the sporty diesel route and Audi will be getting the performance petrols (according to Evo mag). I think cpufreak hit the nail on the head, the 130 sport was never meant to be the range topping performance model where as the vRS is (I think).
The new Cupra would be a better comparison against the vRS.
big ALI H
21-04-2004, 16:32
Arn't Seat and Audio meant to be the sport side of VAG now,
Are Audio a new company then, do they make sound cars :bleh: ;) :roflmao:
kinghorna
21-04-2004, 17:58
critizing the Ibiza Sport because it doesn't have the agressive looks of the Fabia vRS isn't really fair, as the Sport isn't the sportiest Ibiza - so perhaps is aimed at a slightly different buyer - someone who wants a quick car, but who doesn't want to attract attention.
I think cpufreak hit the nail on the head, as me with my car (as standard) looks nothing special (so people don't want to steal it) and then there's nothing better than seeing a chav in a 1.2 corsa with cr@p stuck all over it come past, I drop a couple of gears plant the loud peddle, a few seconds later said chav is sitting in a black cloud thinking "what the F***"
I think cpufreak hit the nail on the head, as me with my car (as standard) looks nothing special (so people don't want to steal it) and then there's nothing better than seeing a chav in a 1.2 corsa with cr@p stuck all over it come past, I drop a couple of gears plant the loud peddle, a few seconds later said chav is sitting in a black cloud thinking "what the F***"
LOL. I know (and indulge myself with) that feeling :thumbup:
But I probably get that reaction even more driving the vrs...
Well it is listed as the Ibiza 'Sport' 130 Tdi.
Cast your minds back folks. This time last year we didn't know if there was going to be a Cupra of not. The Mk4 has been out for over 2 years so the Sport had to carry the 'Sportiest' mantle for quite a while.
Anyhow the original question really relates to th amrketing and we quickly moved the topic subtly.
I stand by my comment though, and since the Ibiza Sport already costs more than the vRS then the 'real' sporty Ibiza will cost a ridiculous amount more.
big ALI H
22-04-2004, 07:57
[B)] :runaway: Taxi for Mr H :runaway:
Mmmmm interesting comments here.... But to me there is a couple of issues that seem to have been missed....
Sorry guys but when I went looking around xmas for a possible change the Ibiza neva really was looked at, yes nice engine etc (thats proven) but body size, lack of rear doors!! The Ibiza 130 Sport is only available in 3 door mode... Killed it straight away. rVs on the other hand has 5 door's, making access to the rear for my kids better... However the cost was hitting me hard in the face Skoda cheaper!!
But Seat were offering a better px than Skoda - CANT WIN - So I though stuff it, I will keep me leon!
However I will be looking at the Ibiza Cupra Tdi (160Bhp stnd) Mmmmm Now that already has a presence & its not even launched yet!
big ALI H
22-04-2004, 08:47
Sorry guys but when I went looking around xmas for a possible change the Ibiza neva really was looked at, yes nice engine etc (thats proven) but body size, lack of rear doors!! The Ibiza 130 Sport is only available in 3 door mode... Killed it straight away. rVs on the other hand has 5 door's, making access to the rear for my kids better... However the cost was hitting me hard in the face Skoda cheaper!!
The Ibiza 130 TDI Sport is available in 5 door mate ;)
driveforward
22-04-2004, 08:55
Stu.. you dark horse... :p
The Ibiza Sport *is* available in 5 doors - they started selling them about a year ago.
Doubt the cupra will be available as a 5 door tho..
Mmmmmm Back to dealer maybe - Or shall I just continue with the Womble Project ... ... ... ...
driveforward
22-04-2004, 11:40
Will they do the cupra in green!? ;)
Q=Will they do the cupra in green!?
Ans=Hence the Womble Project...... Car's into Bodyshop on Monday Hmmmmmmmm !
driveforward
22-04-2004, 13:09
"Project Womble"
Lol :D
Mmmmm interesting comments here.... But to me there is a couple of issues that seem to have been missed....
Sorry guys but when I went looking around xmas for a possible change the Ibiza neva really was looked at, yes nice engine etc (thats proven) but body size, lack of rear doors!! The Ibiza 130 Sport is only available in 3 door mode... Killed it straight away. rVs on the other hand has 5 door's, making access to the rear for my kids better... However the cost was hitting me hard in the face Skoda cheaper!!
But Seat were offering a better px than Skoda - CANT WIN - So I though stuff it, I will keep me leon!
However I will be looking at the Ibiza Cupra Tdi (160Bhp stnd) Mmmmm Now that already has a presence & its not even launched yet!
Personally I think that the single biggest problem with the vRS is that there is no 3 door. I don't need the rear doors and I don't like the look of them, but everyone's different.
christdi
24-04-2004, 00:39
I agree, I personally think the Ibiza looks nicer and I dont like the fact that the vRS only comes in 5 door. The only advantage I think the vRS has over the Ibiza is price, but then again the Ibiza is two insurance groups lower. I have no complaints about build quality either, my beezer feels very solid and Ive not had any problems with the car at all.
What Car? JDPower survey this month rates the Fabia 7th and the Ibiza 79th in the supermini class .Seems they arent as reliable or built as well . Seat dealers not as good either. Every survey Ive read seems to confirm this. My next car will be a ..
or could it be that the people who buy seat ibizas are honest and up standing citizens who dont tell lies on the JD power form unlike the cheating skoda guys who fib there way up to no7. This is just an assumption as I have no evidence to back up my theory.
christdi
24-04-2004, 12:29
What Car? JDPower survey this month rates the Fabia 7th and the Ibiza 79th in the supermini class .Seems they arent as reliable or built as well . Seat dealers not as good either. Every survey Ive read seems to confirm this. My next car will be a ..
I can only go by my own expeirence, and I am very pleased with my Ibizas build quality and reliability, maybe I got a good one. My previous two cars where Golfs and I had nothing but one rattle after another in both of them. Also I have not read one magazine review of the Ibiza where they have mentioned a lack of build quality, in fact it always seems to be seen as one of its strong points.
I can only go by my own expeirence, and I am very pleased with my Ibizas build quality and reliability, maybe I got a good one. My previous two cars where Golfs and I had nothing but one rattle after another in both of them. Also I have not read one magazine review of the Ibiza where they have mentioned a lack of build quality, in fact it always seems to be seen as one of its strong points.
Totally agree .Its the best-built and reliable car Ive ever had. And best to drive. Just dont believe the Fabia could be much better. What Car? have really raved about the Mk 4 Ibiza ever since it came out winning many road tests. (See
August 2003 for the TDi )