View Full Version : 4 wheel alignment LCR
Big Fish
20-04-2004, 21:16
right heres a tuff one can anyone give me the factory spec settings for all for wheels
Fron
Toe
Camber
Caster
K.P.I.
Rears
Toe
Camber
Setback
Offset
Cheers
Steve
no - but any alignment place worth it's salt should know!
I'm 90% sure setback & offset should be nil
camber front & rear -0.5
and *roughly* the same for toe
what do you have?
Big Fish
20-04-2004, 21:25
LCR
although rear passenger wheel is 1.5 degrees out of alignment at present,possible a mangled rear axle or bush out of alignment
steve
dont know about the leon, but a cordoba has -1.5degree rear camber as standard according to the book (haynes)
:dunno:
LCR
although rear passenger wheel is 1.5 degrees out of alignment at present,possible a mangled rear axle or bush out of alignment
steve
What's happened? Mine got hit in the rear and I have the same - long running saga to get it sorted...
Big Fish
21-04-2004, 17:54
thats the problem.....nothings hit the car at all...not even a pot hole
theres me going about me business and i decided to get the tyres changed, the car has always had slight pull to the left and i didnt really think anything of it......
so after the tyres were done i left it for a couple hundred miles to let them bed in and i took the car to VW.....the man said all wheels were perfect apart from the one sticking out .
the guy (very helpful) at VW explained that the axle could be bent and that it could have been bent from new and all SEAT have to do is to algin the front and back when the build em to get them to track straight.
anyways............im obviously not happy................so SEAT CENTRAL if your reading ...pull your finger out and stop making excuses
Steve
thats the problem.....nothings hit the car at all...not even a pot hole
theres me going about me business and i decided to get the tyres changed, the car has always had slight pull to the left and i didnt really think anything of it......
so after the tyres were done i left it for a couple hundred miles to let them bed in and i took the car to VW.....the man said all wheels were perfect apart from the one sticking out .
the guy (very helpful) at VW explained that the axle could be bent and that it could have been bent from new and all SEAT have to do is to algin the front and back when the build em to get them to track straight.
anyways............im obviously not happy................so SEAT CENTRAL if your reading ...pull your finger out and stop making excuses
Steve
No well, actually, same on mine - 4 wheel alignment says it's straight, but it clearly isn't. That's something that I hadn't considered - that the bent stub axle was replaced - with a new bent stub axle. Doubt it though, more likely that it wasn't swapped at all.
Re: Pulling to the left, I think it's fair to say that a lot of them do that.
In answer to your first question though, when mine was checked they usd the setings from the Golf, TT & Octavia, in that they're all the same...
Big Fish
22-04-2004, 08:11
yeah i see what you mean
this whole thing is driving me crazy
there are no markings on the underside of the car, you cant see that anywhere on the axle is bent and nor are any of teh ancillaries. the closet thing i can think of is that AUDI did a recal on the TT as it was found that not enough grease was being put into the lower arm joints at the factory causing them the seize and potentially flew (bend)
Steve
yeah i see what you mean
this whole thing is driving me crazy
there are no markings on the underside of the car, you cant see that anywhere on the axle is bent and nor are any of teh ancillaries. the closet thing i can think of is that AUDI did a recal on the TT as it was found that not enough grease was being put into the lower arm joints at the factory causing them the seize and potentially flew (bend)
Steve
Where are you looking? You can't see the stub axle (the bit I think is bent), are you looking at the beam axle?
Some people can see how far out mine is, some people can't (usually the people that are supposed to be repairing it). The best test that someone did was to stick a straight edge on the front of the wheel and mark where it touches the bodywork, then do it on the other side (as performed by Steve at C&R). If there's any difference, it can't be disputed.
On mine the nearside points to the front wheel, the offside points to the middle of the back door :thumbd: , but don't forget mine is accident damage.
After being under the car with Steve at C&R, the conclusion we both came up with was that it has got to be the stub axle that's still bent. Can't be anything else, unless the car's so badly twisted (and if it were that bad, surely there'd be a crease in the roof?). The 4 wheel alignment place must have jiggled the whole beam axle to try and straighten things up, you can see marks in the sealant underneath.
Big Fish
22-04-2004, 09:51
this all seems very strange
am still waiting on SEAT to call me back regarding it
however, i am taking the car to a suspension specialist for another geo check and a full front and rear suspension review at SEATs expense
will let you know what happens
Steve
castlehill
23-04-2004, 04:08
I had similar problem with my Audi A3 1.8T sport, though under sharp braking the rear would try to overtake you, it was also destroying left rear tyre every 4K, it was into Audi 4 times & every time came back there is nothing wrong sir. A local garage however thinks that a garage had jacked the car up using the back axle rather than a solid part of the chassi therefore bending axle; slightly. Never resolved problem, traded in for a Leon in the end.
Big Fish
23-04-2004, 07:46
first thing i checked was the jacking points and the only times the car has been up in the air, apart from the STEALERS, ive been there making sure they do it right
hey ho...........guess ill be waiting on SEAT, who for some reason couldnt organise a drinking session in a brewery
Steve
Big Fish - did you ever get yours sorted?
Big Fish
04-07-2004, 18:21
yes in a way, i did ...........
when they were unable to locate the problem i took the car to a race suspension specialist and after a few calls to SEAT spain for the geo spec for rear suspension mountings and rear beam location points, it was determined that the rear was approx 4mm on being machined to the body
car was therefore returned to the stealers under Sale of Goods, now driving something smaller, lighter and faster....EXIGE 190 (turbo conversion on way from states)
BF
...it was determined that the rear was approx 4mm on being machined to the body...
I'm not clear on what you mean by this, I'd really appreciate if you would provide more detail (if you can).
Who was the suspension specialist (PM if you like).
Exige, not jealous at all, not one bit...
Big Fish
05-07-2004, 10:32
Its really a similar problem as with the warped rear bumpers, sometimes the rear bumper mounts were machined a few mm in the wrong direction this in turn caused the rear bumper to warp.
with my car, it was noted that the mounts for the rear axle and suspension were not in alignment with the opposite side of thecar, well they were just a little off, but it was enough to through the cars geometry out, therefore causing it to pull to one side (nearside). The only way (i was told) to correct this would be to have a 4 wheel alignment to cater for the offset.
It was my local lotus dealership who checked it all out for me, they set up their own race cars track cars and are very good. Mate in the trade did it for next to nothing
BF
:cheers:
Might be the same as mine then, although mine's down to accident damage. I was thinking that it *must* be the stub axle still bent, but the engineer could be right. It's off for jigging/4 wheel alignment in the next couple of weeks.
Hopefully that will be the end of it.
Autonumous
06-07-2004, 02:28
All of this sounds very familar.
A couple of months ago i got full set of tyres for my LCR. I took the car to the local Protyre. reasonable price for the GSD03 and they did 4 wheel laser alignment.
They noted that that the rear Toe was somewhat out from that of the specs (are these specs correct? It was from the alignment machine)
My rear toe was thus:-
actual min spec max spec
left 3.0 0.8 1.8
right 0.6 0.8 1.8
total 3.6 1.6 3.7
The camber of the front and rear was also slightly out from the specs, However they said that the rear camber/toe could not be adjusted, and any issues should be taken up with Seat, so i did.
Eventually my local dealer decided to check it out themselves at another garage, and surprise surprise it turned out to be ok.
Although after looking at the figures again, other values (front Caster,Camber,Toe etc) didnt seem to be right, well within the spec specified on the sheet.
Now i havent had time to follow up on this as i was also going through with a house move at the time, and again now, but i want to take the car back and go over these details with them asap.
Does anybody know the correct specs for an 03 LCR?? Is this published anywhere? I would image these specs are different from a standard leon. The report that my Seat dealer provided, lists the car as a 2000 Leon Standard Chassis, but then the date on the print out is 01-01-1980. So how accurate is the entire report?
If the specs say min 7.2, max 8.2 but the measured reading is 6.6, where do I stand. I would say that it is incorrect and that adjustments need to be made to bring it in line within the specs, but they seem to think that it is close enough and is ok, and that too much work would be involved for something so minor! in which case, what is the point in having specifications and tolerances, if they can be disregarded.
How can two machines (which i assume are calibrated correctly) give such different results!
Then again, i have recorded my local dealer driving my car in excess if 90 mph (onboard GPS system) when taken in, so maybe i should rethink who is my local dealer!! :think:
Autonumous
Big Fish
06-07-2004, 06:11
Will try and dig out the alignment specs + - for the 4 wheel alignment and my readings too
and you can see how far mine was out
BF
Did it look anything like this?
Big Fish
06-07-2004, 16:42
the only way we could see mine was out was when when had the car in the air with the wheels hanging down, then you could see the NSR was pointing out whereas the osr was perfect
BF
Ahh, mine's toeing in on the OSR and cambered (? if you look at OSR from the back it's leaning this way: \ too much).
Maybe not the same thing then. On the pictures the cars actually half on/half off a kerb so perhaps not the best 'stance' to take the picture in. Also not Dunlop one side OE Pirelli on the other. Even though Insurance Company were charged for a Pirelli.
Big Fish
07-07-2004, 06:14
dont sound too good
perhaps you need a second inspection, try getting your car to a local wheel and tyre place and get them get it on the ramps so the wheels can dnagle down then align the wheels by eye down the side of the body
BF
Done that - C&R Enterprises in Notts. Their report got the insurance co to re-inspect, and now they've agreed to move the car to a different shop, which is good news...
Big Fish
07-07-2004, 14:01
well atleast its a start.
me thinks you need to put some pressure on your insurance co. do get a repairer that can do a proper job
BF
Andy Simmons
06-08-2004, 08:46
hi guys
have read the problems on on 4 point wheel alignment and decided to get mine checked since my steering wheel was slight cocked over to the left .
Had the car checked and it was straight as a dye.
The Seat Technician when i went to see him said he knew what it was and explained that the rear mounting holes are nearly always drilled of centres thus causing an alignment problem between the rear trailing arm and the front suspension..
He explained unfortunely there was no adjustment on the back to compensate.
So he said it was a trait of seat leons and that the Cupras seem to suffer more since they have stiffer suspension apparently they have owners screaming all the time about this problem so until seat come up with a more accurate drilling method for the rear axle mounts this problem is always going to occur.
I asked what impact this would have on the car. the Guy just said you would get a small ammount of scrubbing on the front tyres and the tyres should last between 20 to 25000 miles if you are not getting that, then bring the car back, the tyres i'm on are Brigstones Turanza's 205/55/16.
So that's good is'nt it can't believe some thing like this would still be present in modern car production.
So happy it's not going to cause any damage to any other car components but unhappy for the fact i will have to get used to the position of the steering wheel. :( :thumbd:
Anyway that's the low down on the 4 wheel alignment on the Leon
Cheers
Andy Simmons Seat Leon 1.9 SE TDI (110) Bright Yellow
Hmmm, interesting.
AFAIK, the rear beam mountings have the holes in not the chassis/floorpan. I think there are welded studs onto the floorpan that the beam axle mountings bolt to, then the beam axle bolts to the mountings. If there are holes in the floorpan, I'm surprised they can't get them in the right place, given the number of cars out there on the road that use that floorpan.
IIRC the mountings themselves have slotted holes, so there is a *bit* of adjustment, but it would be a wiggle and see rather than an scientific adjustment.
Was this a Seat dealer Tech?
Andy Simmons
06-08-2004, 12:30
O.k feel
yes it was a ligit Seat tech guy
And regarding the way the rear beam axle is mounted you are probably right.
When i looked underneath my leon it has 4 bolts on each bracket and the rubber mount is held in the bracket by one long nut and bolt.
now the bracket is screwed in by 4 bolts it is the location of the threaded holes that causes the offset or the postion or the nuts welded onto the chassis that causes the problem which ever is the method Seat/Vw/skoda/Audi group use :confused: the inaccuracy is here this inaccuracy can anything between 0 - 2mm that is the type of offset that can cause the following problems.
The Seat Garage that is local to me is Lookers Seat in Stockport which has just moved from the Manchester United Area so hopefully it is a good garage. has anyone had any bad experiences with them if they live up around my area. :blink:
cheers
Andy
thebears
10-09-2004, 09:32
Not only does it pull in any gear with the torque but it also pulls to the left as described in many threads here.
Has anyone resolved the issue, i have been to the dealer 4x and losing my mind with them, nothing wrong, set up, re-tracked it Sir swapped tyres etc and still pulls to the left.
What action did any of you find that worked!!
:confused: :confused: :confused:
Andy Simmons
10-09-2004, 13:12
o.k
Mr TDI 150 BHP ( thebears)
From what this guy says at the Seat Garage is that the more stiffer the suspension the more you will notice this fault.
Now on your type of Diesel Cupra you have the stiffer suspension than i have on my 110 tdi se which is the normal suspension .
Now mine does not pull to the left but the steering wheel is not aligned when driving down a straight road, however when i had a 4 point wheel alignment it was straight as a dye, (CONFUSED)!!!
The Seat guy said that it will be the camber of the road that cause the fault to be augmented
to test this theory i have driven on an un-cambered car park near me and the steering straights up. so from the guy at seat he is not talking out of his backside.
Apparently there is not adjustment on the back trailing arm mounts i have checked and it's a trait that seat leon's suffer from not really good enorgh for an expensive car , i think he said it is known to seat and it has yet to be rectified but i suppose the new leon will have fully adjustable rear / front suspension.
i know this does not help the problems but it give you the reasons why it is happening.
Cheers
Andy ovni Amarillo leon 1.9 tdi se
225 Cupra R
01-12-2007, 22:32
:help:Can someone please supply me with factory spec settings for all four wheels
Vehicle: LCR (Jan 04)
Front:
Toe
Camber
Caster
K.P.I.
Rears:
Toe
Camber
Setback
Offset
Much appreciated. Cannot find this info any where.
cruising03uk
11-02-2009, 20:29
all this info also needed cant find anywhere for LCR's