View Full Version : IHI stage 1 upgrade
stekki18t
13-06-2004, 17:18
Tell me all your experiences, remarks, etc... I am thinking for one.
Greetz from Belgium,
s.
:)
Theres only a couple of IHI'd Seats out there at the moment, and I think everyone has gone for the full Stage 3. So, unfortunately I doubt anyone can give any feedback on the stage 1 kit.
Cheers
Ben
I would just pay the extra grand to get the full wack! A chipped lcr can put out bout the same power as a stage 1 conversion. No point really.
Yes but its power to weight a 270bhp chipped Lcr will have about 190-200bhp/ton. A 270bhp Ibiza will have 240bhp/ton. But i would go at least stage 2 you need the manifold.
Question:
All this power produced by Turbo upgrades, how do people manage to get the power down and go round corners??
I had a Jabba re-map done a couple of days ago, well pleased with it!! It's like I am driving another car now :) However, when you prod the throttle in first, second and occassionally in third, I do get wheel spin. That is only with 40-50bhp more. When you bang on a further 100+ bhp (from a normal Cupra's point of view) and a space shuttle of torque, I have trouble seeing how this can be used practically??
As Pirelli say: "Power is nothing without control"...
Question:
All this power produced by Turbo upgrades, how do people manage to get the power down and go round corners??
I had a Jabba re-map done a couple of days ago, well pleased with it!! It's like I am driving another car now :) However, when you prod the throttle in first, second and occassionally in third, I do get wheel spin. That is only with 40-50bhp more. When you bang on a further 100+ bhp (from a normal Cupra's point of view) and a space shuttle of torque, I have trouble seeing how this can be used practically?? The local tyre company will be well pleased, that's for sure.
Better suspension, better tyres will help a lot on the traction side - for really large power tho you're looking at that Quaiffe differential to manage it.
Better suspension, better tyres will help a lot on the traction side - for really large power tho you're looking at that Quaiffe differential to manage it.
Hi mate!
Agreed with the tyres and suspension (in fact, looks like the next "investment"), but driving a Leon with IHI on public roads...the mind boggles!! :drive2:
Agree with you, Jabbasport are a nice bunch or professional VAG enthusiasts!!
Hi mate!
Agreed with the tyres and suspension (in fact, looks like the next "investment"), but driving a Leon with IHI on public roads...the mind boggles!! :drive2:
Agree with you, Jabbasport are a nice bunch or professional VAG enthusiasts!!
Yeah they're just nutty about their jobs, makes you feel very confident :) Looks like your results are good :)
Suspension will really help - stock is too bouncy so you end up with having trouble putting it down. Mines fine now very happy with it! Did you go out in an IHI car??? I must admit after all the ranting about FWD and how you couldn't put too much power down through it i was sceptical, but having driving one i now know better! Yeah it'll be a bit scarey no doubt, but at the end of the day it's up to you how you drive and where, regardless of power output.
:cheers:
Yeah they're just nutty about their jobs, makes you feel very confident :) Looks like your results are good :)
Suspension will really help - stock is too bouncy so you end up with having trouble putting it down. Mines fine now very happy with it! Did you go out in an IHI car??? I must admit after all the ranting about FWD and how you couldn't put too much power down through it i was sceptical, but having driving one i now know better! Yeah it'll be a bit scarey no doubt, but at the end of the day it's up to you how you drive and where, regardless of power output.
:cheers:
Unfortunately, didn't get to go in their IHI car, infact, couldn't watch my car being done...they were quite strict that I wait upstairs - 5 hours trawling through the mountains of car mags they had :rolleyes: Oh well, the job they did was fantastic though!! The torque from 30mph - whoa..., the high powered BMWs are not a problem anymore :D Found that out yesterday when a 5 series thought he'd under take the cheapy Seat in front in heavy traffic!!
When you get your IHI, looking forward to seeing the output figs!!
Unfortunately, didn't get to go in their IHI car, infact, couldn't watch my car being done...they were quite strict that I wait upstairs - 5 hours trawling through the mountains of car mags they had :rolleyes: Oh well, the job they did was fantastic though!! The torque from 30mph - whoa..., the high powered BMWs are not a problem anymore :D Found that out yesterday when a 5 series thought he'd under take the cheapy Seat in front in heavy traffic!!
When you get your IHI, looking forward to seeing the output figs!!
Yeah BMW owners do seem to have a lot to prove for some odd reason ;) Glad you're enjoying it - i'm (still) really impressed with mine day to day. Isn't sixth wonderful now? Makes the car a breeze to drive on motorways!
The BM' owners here @ work won't race me, too worried about losing face apparently... pah! Marketing types eh? Got a colleague who's buying a new M3 soon so i'm hoping he'll fancy a tussle after i'm IHI'ed - just for the look on his face afterwards!
:cheers:
Yeah BMW owners do seem to have a lot to prove for some odd reason ;) Glad you're enjoying it - i'm (still) really impressed with mine day to day. Isn't sixth wonderful now? Makes the car a breeze to drive on motorways!
:yes: :thumbup: 5th and 6th are phenominal!! 6th just pulls consistently to 100+mph with no flat spots. I need to check it out over the next week but I am quite certain the car is using less fuel on combined and motorway runs.
Do you find that??
ibizacupra
18-06-2004, 13:33
IHI Plots in case you were wondering.
Ibiza and MK4 Golf on this plot.
How do they drive? Very tractable in fact, smoother than K03/K04 as the spool up is slightly slower but more linear with huge pull thru to the top end.
FWD and high power? Well you won't set the world alight on standing starts (apart from smokin tyres :p ) but in gear performance is superb. supercar type superb. 0-100mph in 10s for example potential and more.
http://badger-5.com/bin/Golf/jabba-dynoplot-2.jpg
:yes: :thumbup: 5th and 6th are phenominal!! 6th just pulls consistently to 100+mph with no flat spots. I need to check it out over the next week but I am quite certain the car is using less fuel on combined and motorway runs.
Do you find that??
Yeah i do - but it might be due to the trip being a bit out post-chip. I'm not really sure tbh.
IHI Plots in case you were wondering.
Ibiza and MK4 Golf on this plot.
How do they drive? Very tractable in fact, smoother than K03/K04 as the spool up is slightly slower but more linear with huge pull thru to the top end.
FWD and high power? Well you won't set the world alight on standing starts (apart from smokin tyres :p ) but in gear performance is superb. supercar type superb. 0-100mph in 10s for example potential and more.
:drool: Nuts!!
Bill, saw you face in one of the VW mags as a matter of fact!!
ibizacupra
18-06-2004, 15:56
Aye...
pop in em on occasion..
Ps.
Look out for August Issue of The Golf..... Ibiza feature (x3 cars from on here)
Essex_Cupra
21-06-2004, 15:11
so its 4k all fitted for stage 3 then thats not bad!!!
so its 4k all fitted for stage 3 then thats not bad!!!
No, it's damn good for the money compared to what you pay for that sort of power/performance gain on other cars. Not for the faint hearted, and may yet result in my wife divorcing me but god, it's soooo good.
Sad thing is i'm considering buying a runabout for the work run, as i'll prolly end up banned when driving home in a strop from work one night...
stekki18t
21-06-2004, 20:55
tnx guys for your answers, but fyi, I am driving a Beetle 18T :)
I would love to have an IHI [B)]
How many ihi kits are installed till now? How does it come you don't see much ihi dyno plots?
Greetzz from Belgium,
S.
Essex_Cupra
21-06-2004, 23:31
might get this conversion done you know 4k is all good be a laugh!! Have to wait untill i age a little bit more i think though!!
I think it actually works out nearer 5.5k for the stage 3 once you take into account the necessary extras not listed on Jabbas site (Such as chargecooler/FMIC and maybe ATB Diff).
Cheers
Ben
ibizacupra
22-06-2004, 08:43
How many ihi kits are installed till now? How does it come you don't see much ihi dyno plots?
S.
Not too many of them out and about... backlog of installs from the source.
3xIbiza's, 4xGolfs so far............... and a 20 odd people queue for more waiting Jabba's imminent move to larger premesis.
Plenty of IHI's on converted 20VT cars in Mk2 etc also... (Jabba manifold, and self sourced IHI usually, building on a budget)
Essex_Cupra
22-06-2004, 10:41
so thats another 2.5k after stage 1!! quite a bit of difference now!!
so thats another 2.5k after stage 1!! quite a bit of difference now!!
Potentially yes, but to be honest there may be some hidden costs that you haven't accounted for in the stage 1 kit. Personally I think you will need a chargecooler/FMIC even with the stage 1 kit, plus the CAT and exhaust system, and the ATB diff would be beneficial too.
Ben
Do you get to keep your old turbos and that when u get jabba stage 3 conversion?
stekki18t
22-06-2004, 15:27
Potentially yes, but to be honest there may be some hidden costs that you haven't accounted for in the stage 1 kit. Personally I think you will need a chargecooler/FMIC even with the stage 1 kit, plus the CAT and exhaust system, and the ATB diff would be beneficial too.
Ben
And don't forget a clutch upgrade too! Due to the low boost setting for stage1, a fmic is not really needed I think, but would be adviced.
Greetz
S.
:)
Do you get to keep your old turbos and that when u get jabba stage 3 conversion?
Yes afaik.
yeah it works out a little more than 4K i have spent around 8k on mine to get it where it is today and thats without a diff - just cant afford it at the mo. car still goes well but want to get the boost turned up a little when they move along with my new clutch which is being fitted thursday with my new carbon met. pads and boost guage and A pillar.
Essex_Cupra
22-06-2004, 19:36
someone has to much money!!
I wouldn't mind just having the fmic and the ko3s turbo along with the new exhuast and downipe and de cat with a re mapp that would do me nicely! for a while i think gotta reach 250bhp with that i would have thought!
yeah it works out a little more than 4K i have spent around 8k on mine to get it where it is today and thats without a diff - just cant afford it at the mo. car still goes well but want to get the boost turned up a little when they move along with my new clutch which is being fitted thursday with my new carbon met. pads and boost guage and A pillar.
You'll love them new pads m8 - should make that monster a little more managable :)
And don't forget a clutch upgrade too! Due to the low boost setting for stage1, a fmic is not really needed I think, but would be adviced.
Greetz
S.
:)
Yep forgot the clutch (I've had my uprated clutch and lightened flywheel for a while now).
To be honest I personally think that an uprate FMIC or chargecooler will be required. I'm running chipped ~200bhp and I'm really surprised how hot my intake temps are running, and thats WITH a chargecooler!
I know the stage 1 runs lower boost than a chipped car, but I still think it would be advisable.
Ben
Yep forgot the clutch (I've had my uprated clutch and lightened flywheel for a while now).
To be honest I personally think that an uprate FMIC or chargecooler will be required. I'm running chipped ~200bhp and I'm really surprised how hot my intake temps are running, and thats WITH a chargecooler!
I know the stage 1 runs lower boost than a chipped car, but I still think it would be advisable.
Ben
I'm gonna stick with the stock IC - at least to begin with. Remember, Bill's golf had just the stock SMIC on it..
ibizacupra
23-06-2004, 16:00
I'm gonna stick with the stock IC - at least to begin with. Remember, Bill's golf had just the stock SMIC on it..
Well.... its getting a large FMIC as I type...
not for my benefit...
Local company making a huge FMIC for it.
SMIC gets very hot very fast.... single acceleration run 70+'C
391bhp still however from 1.35bar, but its too hot for sustained grief.
Well.... its getting a large FMIC as I type...
not for my benefit...
Local company making a huge FMIC for it.
SMIC gets very hot very fast.... single acceleration run 70+'C
391bhp still however from 1.35bar, but its too hot for sustained grief.
So reasonable to say if you limit power (and therefore pressure) the smic can take a bit of a pounding? It's just that i'm wondering if it's even going to be possible to sort a FMIC out for it to begin with, may be a wait involved for the right one..
Oh eck, another thing to explain to the wife... "darling i need a large fmic cos... "
I can see the glazed look on her face now, followed by two wonderful words "how much?"
When you are talking 400 Bhp, is the OE gearbox and clutch being used??
ibizacupra
24-06-2004, 08:45
When you are talking 400 Bhp, is the OE gearbox and clutch being used??
Yep :) :hide:
BUT
Its an audi TT 4WD box converted to 2WD and has a quaife diff in it.
Std clutch tho. 240mm jobbie as std. (for 4WD)
Nice g'box and change.... like it a lot. Much nicer than the quiafe that was there before :(
ibizacupra
24-06-2004, 08:51
So reasonable to say if you limit power (and therefore pressure) the smic can take a bit of a pounding? It's just that i'm wondering if it's even going to be possible to sort a FMIC out for it to begin with, may be a wait involved for the right one..
Oh eck, another thing to explain to the wife... "darling i need a large fmic cos... "
I can see the glazed look on her face now, followed by two wonderful words "how much?"
Keeping it to a bar boost or just over, its pretty adequate.. SMIC wise. (stock one) sustained 'pasty' action will heatsoak it into submission.
@ Bruntingthorpe a few months ago ('The Golf' mag feature ) it hit a brick wall on the Vmax run at 160mph.... Would not push past 6900rpm in 6th. Not just aerodynamics, but heatsoak had gathered by then.
FMIC is going to be worth having, but not a must have for daily driving. (you will get arrested or ram someone given the acceleration, on real roads, conjested as they are :( )
Keeping it to a bar boost or just over, its pretty adequate.. SMIC wise. (stock one) sustained 'pasty' action will heatsoak it into submission.
@ Bruntingthorpe a few months ago ('The Golf' mag feature ) it hit a brick wall on the Vmax run at 160mph.... Would not push past 6900rpm in 6th. Not just aerodynamics, but heatsoak had gathered by then.
FMIC is going to be worth having, but not a must have for daily driving. (you will get arrested or ram someone given the acceleration, on real roads, conjested as they are :( )
Cool thanks for that - i think that's my aim unless Jabba have sorted a FMIC out with someone that likes the IHI and then i might be tempted to have it done. Reckon it's more important to get the diff sorted than the FMIC to begin with, no good having the power without the ability to put it down. Mind you, i could rely on SEATS excellent TC software :roflmao:
Yep :) :hide:
BUT
Its an audi TT 4WD box converted to 2WD and has a quaife diff in it.
Std clutch tho. 240mm jobbie as std. (for 4WD)
Nice g'box and change.... like it a lot. Much nicer than the quiafe that was there before :(
I'm guessing when i drove it, it still had the quaffe box? Remember the gears being abnormally long..
ibizacupra
24-06-2004, 11:49
I'm guessing when i drove it, it still had the quaffe box? Remember the gears being abnormally long..
Yea... would have been perhaps stock 02J when you drove it with long gears. Quaife had long 1st and close everything else.
TT box went in during my ownership.
bill - you got a FMIC on your ibiza yet? been thinking about it and asked elton but he recons just go for a bigger pre-rad and save the money? want them to turn my boost up a bit when they move but they keep changing the question
how much did the g.box cost to get and have it fitted?
so u gonna remove the CAT now its a track car? get some nice pops, bangs and flames like me.
I have about as big a pre-rad on my chargecooler as you can get. The fan is on a lot of the time (Even when driving normally, ie. not thrashing it), and I'm sure that a pre-rad bigger than mine will result in blocking too much of the radiator and you'll have problems keeping the water temp down!
AFAIK, I'm the only person on here that has an intake temperature gauge in their car? Its been quite surprising how hot things get (Unfortunately I didn't have the gauge on before the chargecooler for comparison purposes).
My findings:
Under normal driving on the motorway, not flooring it, on a 20C ambient temperature day the intake temperature sits at about 40C!!! No matter what I do it wont drop much lower.
On 15C days the intake temp runs at about 30C.
Sitting in traffic the intake temperature hits 60C!!! It can then take 10 minutes of driving to get that back down to normal! Not good for drag runs!
On wet days the intake temperature tends to be roughly the same as the ambient temperature.
All in all I'm not overly impressed with the chargecooler. I think a good FMIC is the way to go (In fact I always did but there hasn't been a 'good' one available for the Ibiza. Hopefully the AM Intercooler will show good results on Bills car.).
Cheers
Ben
got my clutch done - god what a bitch to drive - stalled it a few times but its really nasty to change gears after 6000rpm - just dosnt want to know about it. how does yours drive?
got my clutch done - god what a bitch to drive - stalled it a few times but its really nasty to change gears after 6000rpm - just dosnt want to know about it. how does yours drive?
what clutch set up have you bought and how much? I need one pretty soon. :rolleyes:
uprated G60 everything - i think
lightend flywheel, plate and cover and bering
Mines ok (Helix VR6 setup with lightened flywheel). The pedal is a little heavy but not too much of a problem.
Obviously I've not tried it with 350bhp yet :)
If I had to make the same decision again then I'd possibly of chosen a TDi clutch (Remember its torque not power you need to consider), or maybe a Centerforce centrifugal clutch, but I'm happy with what I have now.
Cheers
Ben
ibizacupra
01-07-2004, 11:20
bill - you got a FMIC on your ibiza yet? been thinking about it and asked elton but he recons just go for a bigger pre-rad and save the money? want them to turn my boost up a bit when they move but they keep changing the question
how much did the g.box cost to get and have it fitted?
so u gonna remove the CAT now its a track car? get some nice pops, bangs and flames like me.
I will be trialing the FMIC shortly (this weekend hopefully with Ado and Mikes help)
My CC is ok for road use, but not sustained track abuse, unless I cheat and use ICE, which works a treat :)
FMIC should be a reasonable test.
Fingers crossed.
Bill
:)
ibizacupra
01-07-2004, 11:23
I have about as big a pre-rad on my chargecooler as you can get. The fan is on a lot of the time (Even when driving normally, ie. not thrashing it), and I'm sure that a pre-rad bigger than mine will result in blocking too much of the radiator and you'll have problems keeping the water temp down!
AFAIK, I'm the only person on here that has an intake temperature gauge in their car? Its been quite surprising how hot things get (Unfortunately I didn't have the gauge on before the chargecooler for comparison purposes).
My findings:
Under normal driving on the motorway, not flooring it, on a 20C ambient temperature day the intake temperature sits at about 40C!!! No matter what I do it wont drop much lower.
On 15C days the intake temp runs at about 30C.
Sitting in traffic the intake temperature hits 60C!!! It can then take 10 minutes of driving to get that back down to normal! Not good for drag runs!
On wet days the intake temperature tends to be roughly the same as the ambient temperature.
All in all I'm not overly impressed with the chargecooler. I think a good FMIC is the way to go (In fact I always did but there hasn't been a 'good' one available for the Ibiza. Hopefully the AM Intercooler will show good results on Bills car.).
Cheers
Ben
When I've datalogged mine, my CC has run mid 20's on a 15'C day, rising to 30's on a 20'C day.
Traffic does'nt have much effect in the term I've logged it under. What you need to make sure tho is unduction temp and not manifold temp, which does climb in traffic, more than induction.
My CC does have a large resevoir tho compared to Pace's item.
Roll on FMIC and some results. :thumbup:
ibizacupra
01-07-2004, 11:25
got my clutch done - god what a bitch to drive - stalled it a few times but its really nasty to change gears after 6000rpm - just dosnt want to know about it. how does yours drive?
Lightened flywheel is the main difference.. Need more revs to pull away smoothly.
Running my 6 puk paddle now on the new g'box and its smoother than my old organic helix... Go figure.