View Full Version : Stealth mod
Just wondering if anyone has changed the injectors in their Leon to the .216mm version from the V6 Tdi? I'll be doing this in a month or two. It should give around an extra 30 hp, and is better for the car than chipping, because the injection window isn't extended like with chipping. It also costs a similar amount to chipping, and is virtually undetectable, so I won't loose the warranty. I'll also get the break pressure increased on the injectors to give a finer spray.
Does anyone have any thoughts or opinions about this, or know of any other tdi stealth mods?
I've heard the guys on TDI club talking about injector changes ~ just up to the ones we have as standard.
Did you think of this yourself, or has someone already done it? (and how much are the injectors?)
What do you mean "just up to the ones we have as standard." ?
What would be the outcome of using V6 TDi injectors and a chip (re-mapped of course) ?? are we talking 180+bhp??:D
by "up to the ones we have" I mean US folks upgrading their TDI(90) injectors to those that we have as std on euro TDI (110).
Purely from memory (so probably p1sh) going from .187 to .208 (????).
And in theory....yeah....fitting these with a suitable remap should pump the power up further. I take it you want your vibration back? :rolleyes: ;)
There's also a company whose name escapes me who do a Leon upgrade that consists of a tuning-box-style add-on and increased fuel line pressure (a la PD units). Can look out the address if you're interested?
Originally posted by mik
And in theory....yeah....fitting these with a suitable remap should pump the power up further. I take it you want your vibration back? :rolleyes: ;)
Not really, my thought was, if I'm gonna keep this car then I don't mind spending money on it....so..
How about a 6-speed box out of a smashed Golf/Bora/Passat TDi PD, plus an uprated clutch (& flywheel??), some up-rated shocks and the Cupra 312mm brakes...... Sorted!!!!:D
Yes I did read about it on TDI club.
The Americans upgrade from .184 to .205's or some to .216's. The 90 has a lower pressure fuel pump than the 110, so can't make good use of the .216's, so they stick to the .205's.
BTW The sizes I'm giving are in mm incase your wondering. Also there are 5 holes on each injector nozzle.
The cost is around £400 just buying 4 brand new injectors. Refurbished are less, and you can trade in the old injectors. They are wear items designed to be replaced every 60K miles.
Yep, 180bhp is very possible, but it wouldn't be reliable. It'd be a risk. The racing TDI had about 180bhp but competed in 24 hour races. That had 0.260mm custom injectors and VNT-17 turbo but a lower compression ratio.
I just want that bit extra.... For example, this morning I was sitting behind a Coralla 1.6 VVTi at the lights, there is about a mile of uphill, thenit goes into 1 lane. He gained about 4 cars length on me (due to his clear run turning onto the A40, I had cars next to me), and although by 105mph where the road goes into 1 lane I was 7+ car lengths infront of him it just shows what a 100kg odd lighter car can do, although they are by no means low powered. I can handle most cars, if mearly just hold them off, but you always want more dont you???
The Cupra I drove up the same stretch managed 120+mph....
Yep, you do always want a bit extra.
You can get an extra 10/15hp for the price of a 1K ohm variable resistor. You put it on the wiring harness and trick the fuel pump into delivering more fuel. On tdi club they call it a beer tuning box. It does what a tuning box does. Similarly you can trick the turbo.
The problem isn't how to get the power, it's how to keep it reliable. A G60 flywheel from a Corrado and VR6 clutch plate are good for 200bhp, and that'd stop the clutch judder. Then you'd need to worry about melting holes in pistons.
Originally posted by langers
The problem isn't how to get the power, it's how to keep it reliable. A G60 flywheel from a Corrado and VR6 clutch plate are good for 200bhp, and that'd stop the clutch judder. Then you'd need to worry about melting holes in pistons.
Surely a G60 flywheel (or any other petrol flywheel) is too light for a diesel, and would reduce the torque, and possibly effect engine idle??
They've been using the G60 flywheel for 3 years with no problems. It is slightly lighter, but then that lets the engine rev freer because it has less momentum. I don't remember reading of any problems with the engine idle. How could reducing the rotational mass of the flywheel reduce engine torque? The ecu controls engine idle speed. Some people get lightened flywheels. www.dieselgeek.com sell stuff which gives an idea of whats available for tdi's.
Reducing the mass of a flywheel will take its toll on torque, it can also cause an uneven idle if it has been lightened too much. I don't know the technical reasons for this, but assume some engines need a certain amount of momentum to run smoothly.
This is further proved when you read about lightened flywheel kits, they often state "idle running not effected", or "slight uneven idle may occur". Of course diesels may be different, but with their higher compression ratio i'd assume they would be effected more buy a lighter flywheel.
I think you've got to go really light, like with an aluminium flywheel before you get a lumpy idle. But from I've read, the G60 flywheel isn't that much lighter.
The ideal solution would be a flywheel from one of the tdi's with more standard torque than the 110bhp tdi. Which one would fit though?
Interesting Mod.
Any links where this is discussed / covered in more detail ?
So, what we need is, low compression Forged pistons, twin turbos (one small for low end, and one big for top end), TDi150 crank/conrods, big injectors, uprated intercooler, water injection, 6 speed gearbox, G60 flywheel, uprated clutch and a suitable chip!!!???!!:D
Should be pumping 220bhp and 300lb/ft......yippeee..............
............now, where is that morgage adviser:D
Originally posted by langers
Yep, you do always want a bit extra.
You can get an extra 10/15hp for the price of a 1K ohm variable resistor. You put it on the wiring harness and trick the fuel pump into delivering more fuel. On tdi club they call it a beer tuning box. It does what a tuning box does.
ROFL
So basically buy a resistor that cost a few quid or spend 400 quid and get a tuning box:) lol thats funny:)
Has anyone approached any tuning box makers and tell them thier ripping us peeps off! perhaps they know that already hehehe
:cheers:
By the time the tuning box makers have added production, packaging, warranty, labour, premises, rolling road costs etc it costs £400. A tuning box may do two more things than just the resistor.
Some may kick in when the turbo is on boost.
Some may extend the injection window.
Both of which I wouldn't want anyway. And still about a fivers worth of parts.
Re. The resistor mod, has anyone got a URL that gives more info on this? The extra 10-15bhp could be just what I am looking for on my seat
www.tdiclub.com
Do a search or post a query about it.
Disclaimer: I take no responsibility for this information and how it's used.
You connect pins 2 and 3 together on the fuel pump harness with a 1k variable resistor.
Then with the car at idle, reduce the resistance until idle gets lumpy. Then increase the resistance a bit to restore idle.
pin 3: Ground terminal
pin 2: Secondary transformer coil, on the pump plunger
pin 1: AC going to primary coil of the transformer in the pump housing.
How the fuel pump works:
The signal at terminal 1 induces the signal in terminal 2. Now, when the plunger moves with respect to the fixed coil, the amplitude (voltage) of the secondary coil changes. It is the amplitude of the secondary coil which tells the ECU what the current status of the plunger is. When this signal is reduced by an external resistor, the ECU allows the plunger to travel a bit further - and so, more power!
On Tdiclub, you may wish to look up evry mod, (yes, spelled like that), or beer TB.
Sounds good and simple but wont it confuse a diagnostics check at seat dealer service ?
You might find they've replaced your fuel pump,pipes, injectors as found report of to lean/rich running ! That could prove WAY expensive , even more so than the excess fuel (?) your scheme uses would cause?
just a thought ....:confused:
It does what a tuning box does, so the same pro's and con's apply.
It shouldn't cause any error codes to be thrown, so I doubt the dealer would find out, unless they actually saw it and wondered what it was.
There are natural variations in what would appear to be identical fuel pumps, so the dealer would probably attribute it to a rich pump, if they even noticed at all. Plus, you can always increase the resistance, or remove the resistor all together and go back to stock performance.
If the dealer wanted to replace the fuel pump, pipes and injectors, I'd be happy to have £2K worth of new engine components as my car's under warranty.
Yep, it probably does use more fuel, but thats the price of extra performance. Probably around 2-3mpg.
How much for a set of these larger injectors ?